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Author Topic: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread  (Read 15460 times)

Magnetica

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #300 on: 11 September, 2017, 12:48:14 pm »
I think you will need to explain that "lull" comment regarding Nemesis. Torquemada the God preceded book 7 and ok it wasn't  at the same level, but it was only short. And before that you have Book 6 which was magnificent - one of the best things in the Prog ever IMO.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #301 on: 11 September, 2017, 10:14:28 pm »
I think you will need to explain that "lull" comment regarding Nemesis.

Whoops...

First when I say very strong lull - I didn't mean the lull was very strong, as in its dip in quality was great, rather even though its had a lull it remained very strong as a strip. Its been all great as I've said before BUT...

... it is a lull...

Here's the proof*

Book 1 -4 - all stunningly good in different exotic ways

Book 5 - The weakest to date. Still a great thrill but 4 episodes too long where previous books simply didn't waste a panel

Book 6 - If I'm ever to hail a story which is basically exposition on a beach a classic this will surely be it (as I said ... or at least the gist of that down the thread) BUT it is still exposition on a beach and while I love it not quite of the standard of 1 - 4.

Torq The God - Almost perfect BUT alas in failing to be so exposes its weakness. The camp, off the cough humour plays brilliantly with the very very dark themes its toying with. But alas it is toying and while the juxaposition does really work it leaves you wondering at the gaps this leaves as you suspend belief in the characters to roll with the fun.

Book 7 - I think a return to greatness... but we'll see...

So you see while I've enjoyed it all immensely I'd stand by the fact that books 5 - 6 1/2 are a 'very strong' lull compared to 1 - 4. the emphasis on 'very strong' being on story quality not the scale of lull.

*So when I say proof, yes I mean just more of me whittering!

Greg M.

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #302 on: 12 September, 2017, 07:38:22 am »
Book 5 - The weakest to date. Still a great thrill but 4 episodes too long where previous books simply didn't waste a panel

I'd say it's the best one since Book 1! (I'd definitely rate it above 2 & 3.)

Magnetica

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #303 on: 12 September, 2017, 08:47:43 am »
Book 6 - If I'm ever to hail a story which is basically exposition on a beach a classic this will surely be it (as I said ... or at least the gist of that down the thread) BUT it is still exposition on a beach and while I love it not quite of the standard of 1 - 4.

I love book 6. It might be people standing around talking on a beach, but it's not any old beach, it's a beach at the end of the world. And it's not just any old conversation - I just love the way the Terminators go back to pledging their allegiance to Torquemada. And the art is just fabulous. I have always marvelled at how Bryan Talbot used to get expressions out of Torquemada's mask.

I was disappointed with Book 7 at the time. It felt like a real change. And the best bit in it riffs on book 6 i.e. how our Torquemada turns the original Torquemada's followers, such that they pledge allegiance to him.

But it was still good...the strip goes a bit downhill afterwards in my opinion. Having just read volumes 2 and 3 back to back, it becomes clear that it didn't really have anything different to say. At the time I didn't notice, because it was years between books (seems unbelievable really....er hang on...ABC Warriors, GreySuit, Slaine etc seem to also have long periods between books).

I, Cosh

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #304 on: 12 September, 2017, 10:29:06 am »
The amazing thing about this is that I have absolutely no recollection of Books 5 and 6. Seven sticks in the mind for Hicklenton's crazed art but I would've sworn blind that Bryan Talbot only drew Book 4.

Need to grab a reprint of the later stuff from somehere.
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Greg M.

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #305 on: 12 September, 2017, 01:00:59 pm »
I just love the way the Terminators go back to pledging their allegiance to Torquemada.

One of my favourite scenes in the entire series: I always enjoy Torquemada's victories. Pat is careful to keep Torquemada a potent foe, and you can tell he absolutely loved writing the character.

My reason for preferring Bk 5 (&6) to 2, 3 and 4 is partially because Bk 5 returns the focus to Termight, and I feel the story is at its best when Termight – past, present or future - looms large. Torquemada is the best thing in the series (in any series!), and Termight serves as a kind of extension and reflection of his gloriously warped beliefs. It goes without saying that I rate 'Torquemada the God' very highly.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #306 on: 12 September, 2017, 09:30:12 pm »
Damnit I want to spin out this Nemesis discussion so much more as its really interesting. I always thought books 1 - 4 were the given as best Nemesis and its glorious to see how wrong I was (while being so right of course!) but alas in just the two progs I've read tonight I have much to comment on.

Firstly Freaks ends. I've always held this simple story in very high regard and it hold up re-read after re-read. More honest and straightforward than The Dead. Heartwarming and insightful. Poor Cuddles though. Love the episode were he is 'exposed' so much. A forgotten classic this one.

In Prog 547 we get Boo Cook making his debut in the Nerve Centre, we know what happened to him but in this Prog and the next we get two artists on Oz that I don't think we see again. Both Behrer and Spud and K Edwards produce lovely episodes of Dredd, but as far as I recall don't show up again. Don't know what happened there?

New Nemesis is as bonkers fun as I remember and christ Zenith is so great.

Top class Proggage!

Jim_Campbell

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #307 on: 12 September, 2017, 11:42:57 pm »
Pretty sure Paul Behrer (geddit?) was a pseudonym Garry Leach used more than once.
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Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #308 on: 13 September, 2017, 06:01:38 am »
Pretty sure Paul Behrer (geddit?) was a pseudonym Garry Leach used more than once.

Looking at the art that defo would make sense.

Magnetica

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #309 on: 13 September, 2017, 07:08:49 am »
"Spud" and "K Edwards"?

Sounds like something for the "Things that went over my head" thread!

Frank

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #310 on: 13 September, 2017, 08:27:39 am »

The stories credited to K Edwards are clearly the work of Will Simpson, who I understand is afflicted by Irishness.



Frank

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #311 on: 13 September, 2017, 01:37:02 pm »
The stories credited to K Edwards are clearly the work of Will Simpson, who I understand is afflicted by Irishness.

Double post in a retroactive attempt at nuance: the colour spreads look like they were coloured by Leach, the black and white art looks like Simpson being inked by another hand*

I'm not sure if Simpson was working with Leach at this point, or if Tharg told him to pop his penciled pages in the post and let Burt worry about who was going to paint them.


* Leach and/or Elliot. There's another Chopper in the Cursed Earth strip credited to Simpson alone that looks like it's been touched by the hand of Leach too. By the time of Cookie and CURSE FARGO AND HIS SPAWN! Simpson's obviously keeping the Crayolas all to himself.

Arkady

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #312 on: 14 September, 2017, 10:41:01 am »
Frank.

You're a bloody good writer and you clearly know your stuff. Please can you take over the defunct Dredd Reckoning blog?

'K thanks bye.


Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #313 on: 14 September, 2017, 10:24:29 pm »
So Prog 549 kinda says all about why I'm not a big fan of Oz. Chopper crosses the Cursed Earth and Wagner and Grant know they have to try to show how hard that is... but don't. Chopper fights some big, wonderful bird thingies and when that gets a bit muh just have him drive his board through them. I mean it looks bloody fantastic, but just lacks conviction.

I know Wagner and Grant ended their writing partnership on Dredd at the end of this and maybe you can see why beyond the decision whether to kill Marlon or not.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #314 on: 18 September, 2017, 09:06:58 pm »
Prog 554

You know I used to love the 'chrome' logo. I really did. It was my logo. I thought it was my favourite.

Then they made a key ring off it (I think it was the glorious Planet Replicas?) and I was like so all over that... then I looked at it... and looked again. Then I looked at some Progs... then I realised ...

Roger Moore, magnificent man though he is, isn't the best James Bond and the 'chrome' logo is far from them best*.

Tharg got it right. Stick it on the fire Green Bounce.

*Tom Baker is still the best Doctor Who mind.