Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 

Author Topic: Pat Mills on Action article.  (Read 4746 times)

sheridan

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 2779
    • View Profile
    • Wilde Wood
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #15 on: 28 August, 2016, 04:29:06 pm »
I really don't think that he's saying he doesn't like Science Fiction and Fantasy.
Besides, his body of work would suggest otherwise.
It's quite clear to me from the entire quote that he was talking about avoiding questions in the House of Commons by shooting robots instead of people and showing oil on the page instead of blood.  Outside of 2000AD he's co-created on Metalzoic, Marshal Law, Vampire Knight - all after he was famous / established enough to have more choice over what he produces.

sheridan

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 2779
    • View Profile
    • Wilde Wood
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #16 on: 28 August, 2016, 04:30:01 pm »
'Farenheit 451'. In the name of COBOL why does autocorrect insist on 'correcting' strings of numbers?
Oh, that's what the Lords of COBOL in BSG was all about?  I wonder if the Cylons followed the Lords of FORTRAN?

Frank

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7181
    • View Profile
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #17 on: 02 September, 2016, 07:29:36 am »
.
Leaving aside the question of Pat Mills's regard for sci-fi, was Pat Mills's 2000ad (the first 12 issues) a sci-fi comic?

His brief was to cash in on the expected success of Star Wars, but the only story in the launch line up that looks like it might even be trying that is poor old Dan Dare.

The rest of the comic looks a lot like any other IPC title of the seventies, with an even less sci-fi version of Lee Majors (acupuncture instead of bionics) running around in flares, a thug with a shotgun chasing Russians round the East End, and a dinosaur strip.

Harlem Heroes has jetpacs and a brain in a jar, but it's a lot like any other sports strip. Even Mills stories that come along later in the first year, like Shako, were tied to the seventies. The comic doesn't get an all sci-fi line-up until the 200s.

Basically, did Mills blow the brief of creating a sci-fi comic?



The Enigmatic Dr X

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 5218
    • View Profile
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #18 on: 02 September, 2016, 07:52:54 am »
Reading this makes me thing that Bishop had to be the best editor ever of 2000ad. After all, unlike Mills, Bishops love sci-fi.
Lock up your spoons!

Greg M.

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 2581
    • View Profile
    • The Beat of His Own Drum
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #19 on: 02 September, 2016, 12:31:41 pm »
Basically, did Mills blow the brief of creating a sci-fi comic?

Well, no. Not unless you deliberately avoid mentioning key sci-fi elements of the stories in the original line-up. Time-travel? Man / machine symbiosis? Is that not sci-fi? You’re correct to say that much of the prog wasn’t particularly Star Wars-y – I'd suggest that was something to be thankful for.

JayzusB.Christ

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 5883
  • Squealing meat.
    • View Profile
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #20 on: 02 September, 2016, 01:40:34 pm »
Reading this makes me thing that Bishop had to be the best editor ever of 2000ad. After all, unlike Mills, Bishops love sci-fi.

 :lol:

I got the reference.
“Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest”

Satanist

  • Member
  • Battle Hardened War Robot
  • ****
  • Posts: 4122
    • View Profile
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #21 on: 02 September, 2016, 01:57:55 pm »
Reading this makes me thing that Bishop had to be the best editor ever of 2000ad. After all, unlike Mills, Bishops love sci-fi.

How's it goin Len?
Hmm, just pretend I wrote something witty eh?

Frank

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7181
    • View Profile
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #22 on: 02 September, 2016, 02:04:30 pm »
Time-travel? Man / machine symbiosis? Is that not sci-fi? You’re correct to say that much of the prog wasn’t particularly Star Wars-y – I'd suggest that was something to be thankful for.

I think early 2000ad was a bit Star Wars-y, in that both used stock sci-fi ideas as a springboard to tell a familiar story, the appeal of which was primarily character and action*.

The episodes of Flesh I've read weren't really about time travel - they were about cowboys being eaten by dinosaurs. The stories were certainly made possible by a traditional sci-fi concept, but that was just the initial impetus.

Maybe they came back to time travel ideas later, and Claw Carver discovered he was his own great-grandfather or something, but I haven't read those episodes.


* I suppose the sci-fi/not sci-fi debate can be summed up by the question of whether Predator is a sci-fi film or an action movie into which a single sci-fi element has been introduced. If lobbing an alien into a recognisable genre movie turns it into sci-fi, then Superman and Alf are sci-fi

Richard

  • Member
  • Posting Machine
  • ***
  • Posts: 1587
    • View Profile
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #23 on: 02 September, 2016, 05:31:48 pm »
This is the most ridiculous "debate" I've ever seen.

blackmocco

  • Member
  • Posting Machine
  • ***
  • Posts: 1375
    • View Profile
    • ART!!!
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #24 on: 02 September, 2016, 05:48:41 pm »
Time-travel? Man / machine symbiosis? Is that not sci-fi? You’re correct to say that much of the prog wasn’t particularly Star Wars-y – I'd suggest that was something to be thankful for.

I think early 2000ad was a bit Star Wars-y, in that both used stock sci-fi ideas as a springboard to tell a familiar story, the appeal of which was primarily character and action*.

The episodes of Flesh I've read weren't really about time travel - they were about cowboys being eaten by dinosaurs. The stories were certainly made possible by a traditional sci-fi concept, but that was just the initial impetus.

Maybe they came back to time travel ideas later, and Claw Carver discovered he was his own great-grandfather or something, but I haven't read those episodes.


* I suppose the sci-fi/not sci-fi debate can be summed up by the question of whether Predator is a sci-fi film or an action movie into which a single sci-fi element has been introduced. If lobbing an alien into a recognisable genre movie turns it into sci-fi, then Superman and Alf are sci-fi

Flesh is a sci-fi story. Unless you can find another genre for time-travelling cowboys sending meat back to the 23rd century from the Cretaceous. The story doesn't have to be about time-travel per se, it can be the element that brackets the story but that still qualifies it.

MACH 1 features an artificially modified superhuman with an artificial intelligence implanted into his body.

Interesting you don't mention Judge Dredd amongst the first twelve issues. Is that not sci-fi also?

Superman would also qualify. Predator too, although it straddles the line between sci-fi and action flick. Still qualifies. Alf is a sitcom with a sci-fi element. Because aliens.
"...and it was here in this blighted place, he learned to live again."

www.BLACKMOCCO.com
www.BLACKMOCCO.blogspot.com

blackmocco

  • Member
  • Posting Machine
  • ***
  • Posts: 1375
    • View Profile
    • ART!!!
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #25 on: 02 September, 2016, 05:57:01 pm »
From that bastion of knowledge, Wikipedia:

"Science fiction is largely based on writing rationally about alternative possible worlds or futures. It is related to, but different from fantasy in that, within the context of the story, its imaginary elements are largely possible within scientifically established or scientifically postulated physical laws (though some elements in a story might still be pure imaginative speculation).

The settings of science fiction are often contrary to those of consensus reality, but most science fiction relies on a considerable degree of suspension of disbelief, which is facilitated in the reader's mind by potential scientific explanations or solutions to various fictional elements. Science fiction elements include:

A time setting in the future, in alternative timelines, or in a historical past that contradicts known facts of history or the archaeological record.
A spatial setting or scenes in outer space (e.g. spaceflight), on other worlds, or on subterranean earth.
Characters that include aliens, mutants, androids, or humanoid robots and other types of characters arising from a future human evolution.
Futuristic or plausible technology such as ray guns, teleportation machines, and humanoid computers.
Scientific principles that are new or that contradict accepted physical laws, for example time travel, wormholes, or faster-than-light travel or communication.
New and different political or social systems, e.g. utopian, dystopian, post-scarcity, or post-apocalyptic.
Paranormal abilities such as mind control, telepathy, telekinesis (e.g. "The Force" in Star Wars).
Other universes or dimensions and travel between them."
"...and it was here in this blighted place, he learned to live again."

www.BLACKMOCCO.com
www.BLACKMOCCO.blogspot.com

Frank

  • Member
  • Bionic Fingers
  • *****
  • Posts: 7181
    • View Profile
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #26 on: 02 September, 2016, 06:59:01 pm »
This is the most ridiculous "debate" I've ever seen.

But we have no idea why, buddy! To pick up on Blackmocco's points, if Flesh and Mach-1 are sci-fi, they're a very different kind of sci-fi to Star Wars or Judge Dredd.

Something like Mach-1, where he's an MI5 agent thwarting terrorists at Farnborough airshow, wouldn't have been out of place in trad titles like Valiant or Lion. The talking computer that helps him beat the baddies is as sci-fi as Knight Rider (not very).

Please note, I'm not arguing early 2K strips aren't sci-fi* at all, I'm just saying they're not much more sci-fi than stuff nobody really considers sci-fi.

Within a few years, the comic was full of stuff like The VCs, Rogue Trooper, and Stainless Steel Rat, that are set on other planets and feature the plethora of spaceships, aliens, and lasers you would expect to find in a comic trying to appeal to kids who fancy more Star Wars.



* ... or that they're not any good

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 12532
    • View Profile
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #27 on: 02 September, 2016, 07:03:27 pm »
Time-travel? Man / machine symbiosis? Is that not sci-fi? You’re correct to say that much of the prog wasn’t particularly Star Wars-y – I'd suggest that was something to be thankful for.

I think early 2000ad was a bit Star Wars-y, in that both used stock sci-fi ideas as a springboard to tell a familiar story, the appeal of which was primarily character and action*.

The episodes of Flesh I've read weren't really about time travel - they were about cowboys being eaten by dinosaurs. The stories were certainly made possible by a traditional sci-fi concept, but that was just the initial impetus...


* I suppose the sci-fi/not sci-fi debate can be summed up by the question of whether Predator is a sci-fi film or an action movie into which a single sci-fi element has been introduced. If lobbing an alien into a recognisable genre movie turns it into sci-fi, then Superman and Alf are sci-fi

I think you're on a pretty sticky wicket here Butch Frank or Frankly Butch whatever you moniker is these days. I mean I think, useless my history (and pre-history) is getting VERY shakey the very fact that cowboys and dinosaurs are embracing in a deadly game is completely dripping with Sci-Finess. How can it not. Its not like time travel is casually implied and then dismissed its there everytime Reagan slashes around at beastie with his goud (spelling?).

Its also a little disingenuous to suggest they just cowboys, even if that is the short hand used. Again apologise for shakey history if I'm wrong but actual wild westy cowboys didn't have great big luna buggie type things and laser defense walls and robot sheriffs and gravity trains and Tefal headed boffins and killdozer meat chopping thingies and... well you get the idea. Sci-fi, sci-fi, sci-fi its drippin' in sci-fi.

Pretending M.A.C.H. 1 isn't sci-fi isn't up to your normal standard either. I mean you imply he popped to his local acunpture parlour and came out all super-powered up. As opposed to have a computer stuck into his dying frame which just happened to be power by the pocky machine.

Aeroball not sci-fi? Really? Dan Dare you gave us. Dredd, okay Prog 2 but SCI-FI. So that leaves Invasion and while yeah that one you could get when you look at the sci-fi that surrounded the comic it kinda in the 70s it kinda falls into line. So yeah different brands and types of sci-fi but I'd say all pretty safely sci-fi.

Maybe as you say Star Wars sci-fi but I suspect the remit was to catch the sci-fi wave driven by Star Wars rather than Star Wars  itself. After all we had Star Wars for that and didn't need anything else.

Colin YNWA

  • Member
  • CALL-ME-KENNETH!
  • *****
  • Posts: 12532
    • View Profile
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #28 on: 02 September, 2016, 07:05:31 pm »
Oh and others beat me to my point and probably said it better than me BUT I wasn't typing all that nonsense and just deleting it cos it had become repetative... I'd have only 12 posts if I lived by those standards!

blackmocco

  • Member
  • Posting Machine
  • ***
  • Posts: 1375
    • View Profile
    • ART!!!
Re: Pat Mills on Action article.
« Reply #29 on: 02 September, 2016, 07:17:09 pm »
This is the most ridiculous "debate" I've ever seen.

But we have no idea why, buddy! To pick up on Blackmocco's points, if Flesh and Mach-1 are sci-fi, they're a very different kind of sci-fi to Star Wars or Judge Dredd.

Something like Mach-1, where he's an MI5 agent thwarting terrorists at Farnborough airshow, wouldn't have been out of place in trad titles like Valiant or Lion. The talking computer that helps him beat the baddies is as sci-fi as Knight Rider (not very).

Please note, I'm not arguing early 2K strips aren't sci-fi* at all, I'm just saying they're not much more sci-fi than stuff nobody really considers sci-fi.

Within a few years, the comic was full of stuff like The VCs, Rogue Trooper, and Stainless Steel Rat, that are set on other planets and feature the plethora of spaceships, aliens, and lasers you would expect to find in a comic trying to appeal to kids who fancy more Star Wars.



* ... or that they're not any good

Knight Rider qualifies as sci-fi. An artificial automated intelligence. Your definition of sci-fi seems a little conservative, Frank. Star Wars is sci-fi. But so is Eternal Sunshine Of The Spotless Mind. Guardians Of The Galaxy is. But so is Under The Skin. It's a very large umbrella the genre sits under. It's not really much of a debate.
"...and it was here in this blighted place, he learned to live again."

www.BLACKMOCCO.com
www.BLACKMOCCO.blogspot.com