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Author Topic: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times  (Read 2171 times)

Timothy

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #30 on: 12 August, 2017, 10:30:44 am »
While I sympathise with your predicament I'm not sure I'd describe the scene you're referring to in America 2 as an unnecessary plot point. It's the motivation for Bennett's decision to do Total War's bidding, and also allows  a greying of the lines in that it shows Justice Department dealing with the offender. I'm sure it would have been possible to move the story along in a different way, but it's a powerful piece of storytelling nonetheless.

user2000

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #31 on: 12 August, 2017, 11:09:11 am »
How do your 8 and 11 year-olds feel about reading black and white comics?

Totally fine - my youngest used to mention that he preferred the colour, but changed his tune after starting my back catalogue IPC/Fleetway funnies - they both agree the stories are funnier than they are today!

I've always told them a good story is a good story whatever - I'm sure they would still prefer the colour, but the old black and whites are what they are, although I have to say IDW have done a sterling job on the stories I mentioned above, this is obviously never going to happen for the thousands and thousands of old 1 and 2 page IPC funnies (nor do I think I would want it to).

Postie just been, with my last weeks 2000ad (Prog 2043) and the new one AND the Meg - it's a miracle, and I just cannot fathom out this bloody postal service around here?!!?

TordelBack

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #32 on: 12 August, 2017, 11:09:45 am »
Wish I could pull off that trick!  After strong initial interest in Ro-Busters/ABC Warriors when he was younger, my own 11-year old can't be arsed with 2000AD - big Beano fan though.  Still, I'm waiting on the results of the paternity test.

My 7-year old daughter is a huge fan of Lumberjanes, so my line doesn't necessarily end here.

The rape in America 2 has never sat particularly well with me as an element, but as we already had the forced abortion of a mutant child in America 1, I think it was well within the parameters of what a reader could expect from the story.

Meanwhile, the rest of this (last?) week's prog:

Cover is absolutely great, Lynch on top form, but alas I walked by it twice in the shops: actually left and came back later because I thought it hadn't been shelved yet.  The logo is as good as invisible. Red would have helped.

Alienist: good stuff this! Coveneny's art has loosened up a treat and the premise is more enjoyable now it's established, rather than feeling like the setup for a farce.  I know it has Beeby on at least one of the keyboards, but it might be fun if it tied into Rennie's Absalom or Caballistics Inc in some loose way.  And I appreciate how stereotypical-comics-nerd that sounds.

Hunted: I do like this series, but a few weeks back the assembling of so many diverse pieces seemed to become an end in itself: if Venus is going to be dragged back into things, maybe she could do something.  Moving the action even further off NuEarth... I dunno.  That said, I thought the previous run was excellent, and there was lots to like in this one: not least the energetic feast that is the Holden/O'Grady combine.   

Grey Area:Continues to shine.  A strip that has grown and grown from what I felt were inauspicious beginnings.  Harrison was born to draw this stuff, selling scale, weirdness and grunge perfectly.  And if we're going to make plots out of the headlines, please let it be like this and not like...

Greysuit:  I should keep my mouth shut here, I really should, but I'm in a bad humour and I do not like this strip.  It's childish rubbish, and not in a good way, and so far beneath Pat's abilities that I keep imagining Tharg finding it in one of Steve McManus' compulsory-publish inventory drawers. 

Among this week's bowler-hatted parade of stupidity, we have the death of a national celebrity during/following a burglary, where no autopsy was carried out, and no mortician was engaged.  Now goodness knows this is small beer compared to invisible ninjas and psychologically-induced invulnerability, but when the strip is about covert assassins and establishment cover-ups, I think it's reasonable to expect that bit at least to be vaguely thought out. 

Dear Tharg, please release Higgins to draw something worthy of his talents, and get Pat back on Savage.   




user2000

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #33 on: 12 August, 2017, 11:19:00 am »
While I sympathise with your predicament I'm not sure I'd describe the scene you're referring to in America 2 as an unnecessary plot point. It's the motivation for Bennett's decision to do Total War's bidding, and also allows  a greying of the lines in that it shows Justice Department dealing with the offender. I'm sure it would have been possible to move the story along in a different way, but it's a powerful piece of storytelling nonetheless.

True, I'm not meaning that specifically per se (although it's this scene that I am unable to let my son read and it would be pointless to try to censor the story somehow around this, and something I most definitely will NOT do anyway) it's more the swears, willies and tits that I feel are unnecessary for 2000ad - OK maybe I am being a bit prudish, I remember sneaking a look at EPIC when I was his age, probably younger.

Still, a couple of years and he'll no doubt know more about anything than I thought I did at his age.

Ro-Busters / ABC Warriors next I think if he wants a break from churning through Dredd (or until I deem it beyond his years...).  Will give him The Lawless Touch actually - after I've read it through first, natch!  More of this old stuff in the Meg please, even though there's a lot of 10 year old reprint in the floppy I do feel as if it is all pretty fresh to me!

Richard

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #34 on: 12 August, 2017, 01:51:52 pm »
Thanks for the answer, as I had been wondering about whether today's kids still bother with b&w any more. Good to know that they do.

In fairness, America and it's sequel were both in the Megazine, which has always been marketed to older readers.

sheridan

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #35 on: 12 August, 2017, 02:58:53 pm »
Thanks for the answer, as I had been wondering about whether today's kids still bother with b&w any more. Good to know that they do.

In fairness, America and it's sequel were both in the Megazine, which has always been marketed to older readers.
Glad you pointed out as I thought I was misremembering which bits got published where - apart from a few lapses (sex issue, etc) 2000AD has always been more sellable to kids, religious/'moral' extremists notwithstanding.

sheridan

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #36 on: 12 August, 2017, 03:05:21 pm »
I got in touch with Royal Mail earlier in the year and they said it is for the sender to bring up any delivery issues, but then the Prog is sent 2nd class, so it is only their "aim" to deliver in 2 to 3 working days (do they even count Saturday as a "working" day?  It would certainly be interesting to see the delivery targets and actual records of the Kilmarnock office, never mind our local one!).

I mean, just what are they doing with them?  My regular postie is on holiday this week so I just put this one down to the random postie shoving it through the wrong door, but yours too?  Hmmm.

Doesn't look like fun working for Royal Mail these days, from this cached page - couldn't find any reporting of delivery targets met, but there's certainly friction in Kilmarnock sorting office...

user2000

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #37 on: 12 August, 2017, 03:37:08 pm »
Thanks for the answer, as I had been wondering about whether today's kids still bother with b&w any more. Good to know that they do.

In fairness, America and it's sequel were both in the Megazine, which has always been marketed to older readers.
Glad you pointed out as I thought I was misremembering which bits got published where - apart from a few lapses (sex issue, etc) 2000AD has always been more sellable to kids, religious/'moral' extremists notwithstanding.

Again, also true - but I think we kid ourselves a little bit.  2000AD is just not AS sellable to kids as it used to be in a LONG time.

I can't think of many specific incidents (although I am willing to go for a trawl through) but I can clearly remember numerous times over even the last couple of years where I have confirmed in my mind that I cannot allow my 10/11/12 yo son to read this at the moment.

Recent case in point - Prog 2041 - Tharg tells the star letter writer we should be pushing the prog onto the next generation.  This a week after Greysuit starts back, with a synopsis involving killing a paedo and then onto the main story involving a sheep shagger!  Sorry folks, I can't be giving my 11 yo this!  (I do like Greysuit myself though, even if it's a bit overly wordy at times)

As I said earlier too many swears, willies and tits - and most of the time for no good reason.  Now I KNOW the comic is a different beast to when a lot of us grew up reading it, but there was none of that in the 80s/early 90s.

Or at least it was disguised better and wasn't so blatant.


Leigh S

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #38 on: 12 August, 2017, 05:53:05 pm »

Greysuit:  I should keep my mouth shut here, I really should, but I'm in a bad humour and I do not like this strip.  It's childish rubbish, and not in a good way, and so far beneath Pat's abilities that I keep imagining Tharg finding it in one of Steve McManus' compulsory-publish inventory drawers. 

Among this week's bowler-hatted parade of stupidity, we have the death of a national celebrity during/following a burglary, where no autopsy was carried out, and no mortician was engaged.  Now goodness knows this is small beer compared to invisible ninjas and psychologically-induced invulnerability, but when the strip is about covert assassins and establishment cover-ups, I think it's reasonable to expect that bit at least to be vaguely thought out. 

Dear Tharg, please release Higgins to draw something worthy of his talents, and get Pat back on Savage.

I'd presume that the EVIL POWERS THAT BE can easily dodge/fake or buy out the relevant parties?

Taryn Tailz

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #39 on: 12 August, 2017, 05:55:35 pm »

Greysuit:  I should keep my mouth shut here, I really should, but I'm in a bad humour and I do not like this strip.  It's childish rubbish, and not in a good way, and so far beneath Pat's abilities that I keep imagining Tharg finding it in one of Steve McManus' compulsory-publish inventory drawers. 

Among this week's bowler-hatted parade of stupidity, we have the death of a national celebrity during/following a burglary, where no autopsy was carried out, and no mortician was engaged.  Now goodness knows this is small beer compared to invisible ninjas and psychologically-induced invulnerability, but when the strip is about covert assassins and establishment cover-ups, I think it's reasonable to expect that bit at least to be vaguely thought out. 

Dear Tharg, please release Higgins to draw something worthy of his talents, and get Pat back on Savage.

I'd presume that the EVIL POWERS THAT BE can easily dodge/fake or buy out the relevant parties?

I'm working on the assumption that this was all just a dream Pat Mills had.

Frank

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #40 on: 12 August, 2017, 06:28:57 pm »
Prog 2041 - Tharg tells the star letter writer we should be pushing the prog onto the next generation.  This a week after Greysuit starts back, with a synopsis involving killing a paedo and then onto the main story involving a sheep shagger! 

That appeal for younger readers struck me as odd too*, but the tone and subject matter of stuff like Hope and Brink seem more likely obstacles to younger readers than Ben Willsher's cock(s).

Trying to produce something parents feel happy sharing with their kids is tough. For example, the chapter of America you're happy handing to Junior contains two nasty murders that would have other parents cancelling their subscriptions.

There's no point limiting the type of stories today's writers can tell in a futile attempt to make the comic accessible to an audience that no longer exists. **


* The question of whether 2000ad should try and defy the exodus of small people from print has bedevilled the reigns of at least 5 Thargs. By the time Fading Of The Light saw print, the vast majority of readers held driving licences; by the time Diggle-Tharg decided to concentrate on shoring up the base, most readers had mortgages. I thought the matter was settled.

** If there was still a market for adventure comics for ten year olds, someone would be publishing one. They're not putting out those TV and toy tie-ins for toddlers because they think they're good.

Richard

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #41 on: 12 August, 2017, 07:16:49 pm »
The comic doesn't have a future if it doesn't attract new readers. Where do you think they're going to come from?

user2000

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #42 on: 12 August, 2017, 07:17:41 pm »
Prog 2041 - Tharg tells the star letter writer we should be pushing the prog onto the next generation.  This a week after Greysuit starts back, with a synopsis involving killing a paedo and then onto the main story involving a sheep shagger! 

That appeal for younger readers struck me as odd too*, but the tone and subject matter of stuff like Hope and Brink seem more likely obstacles to younger readers than Ben Willsher's cock(s).

Trying to produce something parents feel happy sharing with their kids is tough. For example, the chapter of America you're happy handing to Junior contains two nasty murders that would have other parents cancelling their subscriptions.

There's no point limiting the type of stories today's writers can tell in a futile attempt to make the comic accessible to an audience that no longer exists. **


* The question of whether 2000ad should try and defy the exodus of small people from print has bedevilled the reigns of at least 5 Thargs. By the time Fading Of The Light saw print, the vast majority of readers held driving licences; by the time Diggle-Tharg decided to concentrate on shoring up the base, most readers had mortgages. I thought the matter was settled.

** If there was still a market for adventure comics for ten year olds, someone would be publishing one. They're not putting out those TV and toy tie-ins for toddlers because they think they're good.


Exactly...

And exactly why I'm happy to let my son read tooth from 30 odd years ago no bother.

America 1 is not a patch on America 2, but we could split hairs all day on this (is perhaps America 1 a 12A compared to the 15 rated America 2?) - I am certainly no religious or moral nut - I just don't want to be the breeder of one :D

user2000

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #43 on: 12 August, 2017, 07:18:17 pm »
The comic doesn't have a future if it doesn't attract new readers. Where do you think they're going to come from?

Exactly...

user2000

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Re: Prog 2043 - Signs of the Times
« Reply #44 on: 12 August, 2017, 07:22:32 pm »
Prog 2041 - Tharg tells the star letter writer we should be pushing the prog onto the next generation.  This a week after Greysuit starts back, with a synopsis involving killing a paedo and then onto the main story involving a sheep shagger! 

That appeal for younger readers struck me as odd too*, but the tone and subject matter of stuff like Hope and Brink seem more likely obstacles to younger readers than Ben Willsher's cock(s).

Trying to produce something parents feel happy sharing with their kids is tough. For example, the chapter of America you're happy handing to Junior contains two nasty murders that would have other parents cancelling their subscriptions.

There's no point limiting the type of stories today's writers can tell in a futile attempt to make the comic accessible to an audience that no longer exists. **


* The question of whether 2000ad should try and defy the exodus of small people from print has bedevilled the reigns of at least 5 Thargs. By the time Fading Of The Light saw print, the vast majority of readers held driving licences; by the time Diggle-Tharg decided to concentrate on shoring up the base, most readers had mortgages. I thought the matter was settled.

** If there was still a market for adventure comics for ten year olds, someone would be publishing one. They're not putting out those TV and toy tie-ins for toddlers because they think they're good.


Exactly...

And exactly why I'm happy to let my son read tooth from 30 odd years ago no bother.

America 1 is not a patch on America 2, but we could split hairs all day on this (is perhaps America 1 a 12A compared to the 15 rated America 2?) - I am certainly no religious or moral nut - I just don't want to be the breeder of one :D

Goodness me, I'm quoting myself, but I have been down the pub all afternoon, so I make that excuse...

Although I say America 2 would be a 15, 30 years ago it may have been an 18?  Watched Jaws with my kids the other week, 12A now, "A" back in the day - older one loved it as did the youngest -until the floating head appeared in the boat.  That was the end of the film for him - an experience there though LOL, but not paedos or sheep shaggers (and I'm not singling out Pat Mills here, I thoroughly enjoyed both his recent books).