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Spoilers => Prog => Topic started by: Colin YNWA on 05 January, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Title: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Colin YNWA on 05 January, 2019, 04:45:49 PM
Middling Prog, which faced with the standard of late feels like a bit of a let down.

Dredd new writer to me Kenneth Niemand, anyone? Also the return after a LONG time of Jeff Anderson doing some nice work on a decent story. Niemand does well to avoid the cliche of having Dredd bemoan and warn against the last social experiment in Mega-City One. Giant VR(ish) Block Buds to support community spirit. Its a fun idea and the story uses it well. Mind its not hard to predict what AI representations of neighbouring blocks are going to end up doing!

Brink - Hurtles along in fine form. Does do the cliched goodies about to be shot [spoiler]and the gun fire is heard but its the baddie whose need shot by an coming rescuer. [/spoiler] Still we can forgive this gem that little fault.

Skip Tracer is falling back into the bad habits of last time and Nathan is turning back into a shallow 90s style hard man with attitude but nothing to make you care. Shame after the progress last time but lets see how we go.

3riller - The Scorched Zone happens and that's all that's worth saying. Stuff occurs bit I couldn't really give two hoots! Nothing to engage here.

Fiends of the Western Front does make me care and is immense fun.

Thistlebone looks good doesn't it!
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Southstreeter on 05 January, 2019, 05:10:09 PM
Not a great prog for me.

Dredd - how can 2 holograms fight each other? Not keen on the art.     2/5
Brink - brilliant as ever, though Bridge seems to have had a gun pointing at her for several weeks now. Glad we're heading for the resolution.      4/5
Skip - as has been said, standard 90s fodder.     2/5
3filler - whatever.          2/5
Fiends - this is well done, but not really my thing.      3/5

Looking forward to Thistlebone. Do we know what's replacing Brink, which can't have much more left?
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: broodblik on 05 January, 2019, 06:06:27 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 05 January, 2019, 04:45:49 PM

Dredd new writer to me Kenneth Niemand, anyone?

He wrote Starlord 'Watch the Stars!' in Prog 2061.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: The Amstor Computer on 05 January, 2019, 06:18:11 PM
Niemand is German for "nobody" and "Kenneth" can be shortened to "Ken", Scottish slang for "know" - "Ken Niemand" is basically "know nobody". It's a pen name for Tharg, IIRC.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 05 January, 2019, 08:07:36 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/hkPoLZb.jpg)

Patrick Goddard and colours by Jim Boswell
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Leigh S on 06 January, 2019, 03:52:02 PM
Presuming the Dredd is a Matt SMith pseudonym (and why not - it has the pitch perfect ear for Dredd he has demostrated elsewhere), I think Rebellion should releave him of as many editorial duties as possible to allow him to "show run" Dredd.  It is frustrating to think what a Matt Smith polish might have done to a lot of those "almost right" or "good but feels inconsequential because it seems to be in it's own continuity"  stories of the past year or two.

I certaily wouldnt expect Matt to be able to do that on top of everything esle he does, but if I was a Kingsley, I'd be on it pronto - Dredd deserves it!
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Richard on 06 January, 2019, 04:08:23 PM
I'd rather have him as editor tbh. Too risky to get a new editor in. The prog has been in safe hands for 17 years now, so why interfere with a winning formula?
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Leigh S on 06 January, 2019, 04:28:32 PM
well, I think we have to assume another editor could step in - otherwise, what does that say for the future of the prog - pretty precarious if it rests in the hands of one droid!

But I'm not suggesting he need give it up totally - just get an assistant to do the heavy lifting and giving Matt time to spend giving Dredd some direction - when it was Wagner, this took care of itself - if we had a way to corrall the disparate ideas of Carroll/Eglington/Williams into something more coherent, that referenced itself and set a tone, I think the strip would improve exponentially and a Rebellions top property, it would be worth the investment.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Leigh S on 06 January, 2019, 04:30:36 PM
Imagine for instance, if post Day of Chaos, there had been resource to make a concerted effort to explore what the aftermath was - Carrolls Texas City takeover stuff, the Sons of Booth and Champion the Wonder Horse, all pulling together rather than seeming to exist in their own bubbles
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Colin YNWA on 06 January, 2019, 04:56:07 PM
Well I have been pondering whether Matt Smith and Rebellion are succession planinng by getting Keith Richardson to edit bits and bats here. Might of course be nothing but I could think of worse fates. We shouldn't be afraid of change 2000ad lives on it and Keith would certainly be molded in the shape of Smith... one would imagine and of course that's all this is imaginings!
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Geoff on 06 January, 2019, 07:12:28 PM
Brink continues to engage and excite and the Fiends are pretty good too.

The rest is not really up to recent standards...

Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Leigh S on 06 January, 2019, 07:47:13 PM
I'd contrast this Dredd with some recent McConville(?) Dredds, which had strong Dredd ideas but the stories were told in captions to move the action along rather than the action doing it.  It makes all the difference, and if that makes the story go over into two progs, well all to the good - why waste a good idea due to rushed execution?
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Cyber-Matt on 06 January, 2019, 10:30:47 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 06 January, 2019, 03:52:02 PM
Presuming the Dredd is a Matt SMith pseudonym (and why not - it has the pitch perfect ear for Dredd he has demostrated elsewhere)

Thanks, but Ken Niemand isn't me.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Leigh S on 06 January, 2019, 10:38:46 PM
Cheers for the clarification, Matt - heartening to know there's someone else out there whose "Dredd voice" is spot on for me!


Quote from: Cyber-Matt on 06 January, 2019, 10:30:47 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 06 January, 2019, 03:52:02 PM
Presuming the Dredd is a Matt SMith pseudonym (and why not - it has the pitch perfect ear for Dredd he has demostrated elsewhere)

Thanks, but Ken Niemand isn't me.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: The Amstor Computer on 07 January, 2019, 11:04:14 AM
Quote from: Cyber-Matt on 06 January, 2019, 10:30:47 PMThanks, but Ken Niemand isn't me.

Ah! Apologies - I was sure it was another of TMO's aliases. As Leigh says, whoever Ken Niemand is they've got a good grasp on Dredd (and their Starlord tale was fun too).

(...and assuming that it is still a pseudonym, I also realised last night that "ken niemand" is Dutch too - "ik ken niemand"="I know no-one")
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: broodblik on 07 January, 2019, 12:43:15 PM
Quote from: The Amstor Computer on 07 January, 2019, 11:04:14 AM
(...and assuming that it is still a pseudonym, I also realised last night that "ken niemand" is Dutch too - "ik ken niemand"="I know no-one")

Niemand is also a surname in Afrikaans and I would translate Kenneth to "Ken Niks" which will mean "Knowns Nothing" and Niemand to "Nobody" or "No One" but the translation above sounds more right for a pseudonym
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: norton canes on 07 January, 2019, 03:03:28 PM
Kenny who?
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Fungus on 07 January, 2019, 04:30:46 PM
Quote from: norton canes on 07 January, 2019, 03:03:28 PM
Kenny who?
Ha!
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: The Amstor Computer on 07 January, 2019, 04:51:33 PM
Quote from: norton canes on 07 January, 2019, 03:03:28 PM
Kenny who?

Heh, quite  :)
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: metcalfecarr on 08 January, 2019, 06:04:07 PM
Hasnt it been previously stated that Niemand is Keith Richardson?
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Leigh S on 08 January, 2019, 06:35:18 PM
Whoever it is, it's a fond call back to the days of John Howard and Keef Ripley - long may it remain a mystery (so long as we get a more!)
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: I, Cosh on 09 January, 2019, 12:21:04 AM
Quote from: metcalfecarr on 08 January, 2019, 06:04:07 PM
Hasnt it been previously stated that Niemand is Keith Richardson?

It's been stated, but then Keith said it wasn't.

Quote from: Robo-K33F on 09 December, 2017, 10:35:43 PM
Quote from: Pete Wells on 09 December, 2017, 09:27:15 PM
I may be wrong, but with the nostalgic vibe I kinda assumed that Kenneth Neimand is Keith Richardson. I really enjoyed the Starlord story, the radicalisation angle made me chuckle.
Whoa there tiger - I'm innocent. Wish I did write it though as imo it was cracking!

Matt did edit out a Tornado moment in which the skin head Weetabix crew batter Big E to death with socks stuffed with snooker balls. The Green Cross code Man and Wolfie Smith just watched....and laughed.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: I, Cosh on 09 January, 2019, 12:21:41 AM
Quote from: I, Cosh on 09 January, 2019, 12:21:04 AM
Quote from: metcalfecarr on 08 January, 2019, 06:04:07 PM
Hasnt it been previously stated that Niemand is Keith Richardson?

It's been stated, but then Keith stated that it wasn't him.

Quote from: Robo-K33F on 09 December, 2017, 10:35:43 PM
Quote from: Pete Wells on 09 December, 2017, 09:27:15 PM
I may be wrong, but with the nostalgic vibe I kinda assumed that Kenneth Neimand is Keith Richardson. I really enjoyed the Starlord story, the radicalisation angle made me chuckle.
Whoa there tiger - I'm innocent. Wish I did write it though as imo it was cracking!

Matt did edit out a Tornado moment in which the skin head Weetabix crew batter Big E to death with socks stuffed with snooker balls. The Green Cross code Man and Wolfie Smith just watched....and laughed.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: broodblik on 09 January, 2019, 03:10:14 AM
A week makes a big difference in a prog this time around the prog is much better than last weeks.

The only let  down is the 3riller (or in this case filler) which is quite unoriginal (done that got the t-shirt type of story).

Can not wait for Thistlebone it looks really good.

Highlight this time around is Brink which looks like the endgame from here on wards.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: AlexF on 10 January, 2019, 09:05:40 AM
I quite enjoyed the 3riller this week. Maybe I've been out of the zombie game for too long and it's old hat to a lot of readers but it felt like a new take on that monster and I do like a bit of red.

It's slightly sad that the mystery of Kenneth Niemand is holding our collective attention more than the mystery of any given strip!

Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: norton canes on 10 January, 2019, 10:44:14 AM
Dredd: Actually thought the 'Block Bud' concept was really good, and I like the striking images of giant holograms sitting on top of Citiblocks. Not sure how they manage to physically fight each other, though..? Also the art was a bit lacking, sorry.

Brink: After a few installments stuck in [forget the name of the guy with the beard]'s office, we cut to the meaty part (metaphorically and, worryingly, possibly literally). I thought the huge bulkhead door was down in the habitat depths? Did I miss that they took a short cut? Super looking forward to next week.

Skip Tracer: This strip continues to do the basics right - a good setting, a lead character with plenty of potential depth, and lots of nice world-building going on, complimented wonderfully by Marshall and Teague's artwork. BUT it's still not firing. I honestly don't think it's a great distance off being a classic, it just needs to make one more push. Here's hoping!

(one thing that might be prejudicing me against it is that I really don't like the word 'Consociation'. It's completely triggering me for some reason I can't pinpoint. It's like the strip's 'melancholema' or 'phale chronozon' but it's actually making me feel a bit ill.)

Scorched Zone: This on the other hand is just a forgettable collection of old tropes.

Fiends: Good scripting, great art, perfectly enjoyable; though to be honest, I preferred the folk-horror-ish weirdness of the previous chapter.

Thistlebone: 10/10!

Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: broodblik on 10 January, 2019, 01:54:50 PM
Interesting take on Skip Tracer is how Marshall's characterization looks different from MacNeils. I think one of the reasons why people do not like the main character is that he is always angry. Marshall draws him that he is angry, MacNeil did not (hence the reason that the previous installment was more excepted). Just my two cents.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Colin YNWA on 10 January, 2019, 09:33:57 PM
Quote from: broodblik on 10 January, 2019, 01:54:50 PM
Interesting take on Skip Tracer is how Marshall's characterization looks different from MacNeils. I think one of the reasons why people do not like the main character is that he is always angry. Marshall draws him that he is angry, MacNeil did not (hence the reason that the previous installment was more excepted). Just my two cents.

You know what you might just have nailed it! MacNeil or the script he had enable us you smpathise with Nathan.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Magnetica on 10 January, 2019, 11:25:02 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 10 January, 2019, 09:33:57 PM
Quote from: broodblik on 10 January, 2019, 01:54:50 PM
Interesting take on Skip Tracer is how Marshall's characterization looks different from MacNeils. I think one of the reasons why people do not like the main character is that he is always angry. Marshall draws him that he is angry, MacNeil did not (hence the reason that the previous installment was more excepted). Just my two cents.

You know what you might just have nailed it! MacNeil or the script he had enable us you smpathise with Nathan.

You might be able to sympathise with him, but it doesn't help with remembering his name. :lol:
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Trout on 11 January, 2019, 02:24:59 AM
I really enjoyed this prog. Brink was my top thrill and that's a good fun Dredd. Skip Tracer isn't grabbing me but I did enjoy the 3thriller and Fiends. I think many of you were a little unkind to a perfectly solid January prog. Cheer up, chaps!

And Ken Niemand is Scojo.  ;)
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Colin YNWA on 11 January, 2019, 06:19:16 AM
Quote from: Magnetica on 10 January, 2019, 11:25:02 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 10 January, 2019, 09:33:57 PM
Quote from: broodblik on 10 January, 2019, 01:54:50 PM
Interesting take on Skip Tracer is how Marshall's characterization looks different from MacNeils. I think one of the reasons why people do not like the main character is that he is always angry. Marshall draws him that he is angry, MacNeil did not (hence the reason that the previous installment was more excepted). Just my two cents.

You know what you might just have nailed it! MacNeil or the script he had enable us you smpathise with Nathan.

You might be able to sympathise with him, but it doesn't help with remembering his name. :lol:

Or spelling sympathise right! I despair of myself at times.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Magnetica on 11 January, 2019, 09:26:23 AM
Quote from: Trout on 11 January, 2019, 02:24:59 AM
I think many of you were a little unkind to a perfectly solid January prog. Cheer up, chaps.

Yes I thought it was perfectly good, even the 3Thriller and Skip Tracer.


Quote from: Colin YNWA on 11 January, 2019, 06:19:16 AM
Or spelling sympathise right! I despair of myself at times.

Yes I noticed that but didn't want to nail you for it, after all it is a tricky one; I had to Google it myself.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: CalHab on 11 January, 2019, 10:17:46 AM
3/5 for me. A solid, almost traditional, Dredd seems welcome after the high drama of The Small House. Fiends continues to be great fun. It hasn't reached the heights of the previous 1812 series, but there's still time. Brink keeps the tension ratcheted up, and is the highlight of the prog. The 3riller seems kind of pointless, unless there is some big change in the final part? Maybe I've just got zombie fatigue. Skip Tracer reminds me of some of the mid-90s progs. I've tried to give this a go, but its just not working for me. It feels like it's been assembled from a parts bin of sci-fi tropes and the lead lacks charisma or character to engage with.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Arkady on 11 January, 2019, 06:03:04 PM
Skip Tracer: anyone else respond to the tri-boobied lady with the Arnie-sanctioned "Baby you make me wish I had three hands", only to piss themselves laughing that a four-armed man is referred to in the very next frame?

And then freak out at the horrible, angry, sticky, living vagina-pillow in the final frame?

Just me then.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: norton canes on 13 January, 2019, 12:21:03 PM
Ha. Maybe the horrible, angry, sticky, living vagina-pillow could become Skip's sidekick, like the Gronk?
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Mardroid on 13 January, 2019, 01:39:13 PM
I thought the Prog was fine. I liked the Dredd story. It's a while since we've had one with a bit of comedy and in the 'future tech stuff gone amok' vein.

Concerning Fiends, aside from Dredd, I'd say this is the stand-out strip for me at the moment. I wonder if Max's scheme will backfire though. [spoiler]His plan is based on the idea that vampires are distant relatives to himself, a mutation that occurred to a victim (possibly victims) of his bat-people ancestors.  So utilising his pseudo-science to vapourise vampires and blast the gaseous muck into humans he feels he can bring back his ancestral race, and apparently he has succeeded.

Just one problem: the previous story established that Constanta is a first generation vampire, who was turned via witch magic.  Therefore, neither he, or the vampires he sired (directly himself or those sired by those he sired, etc down the line) are not the mutations created by the bat-people. Now, I don't know for sure that Constanta's squad were all sired by him. It's possible that he recruited vampires from elsewhere, sired by others, but it seems likely.

I don't have an issue with bat entities still being successful as a result of Max's experiment witchified vampires as Constanza's vampires are very much in the Dracula mould, with a relationship with bats shape shifting into them on occasion, and likely controlling bats too (although I can't remember if that happened in the original Fiends... story. It's a while since I've read it). But I do wonder if Max's creations will end up under Constanza's control rather than his. [/spoiler]
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: Proudhuff on 15 January, 2019, 01:21:24 PM
Quote from: norton canes on 13 January, 2019, 12:21:03 PM
Ha. Maybe the horrible, angry, sticky, living vagina-pillow could become Skip's sidekick, like the Gronk?

This should happen...make it so.
Title: Re: Prog 2113 - Community Spirit
Post by: titchard on 19 January, 2019, 11:03:52 AM
I enjoyed this issue on the whole but I did think a lot of the similar points that the others did.

Regarding the holograms beating each other up - my thought process was that the holograms all run on the same computers so are "virtually" beating each other up with translated to the holograms doing things in the real world.  I cannot say I am a huge fan of the art though.

The scorched zone was interesting to start but starting to go a fair bit generic zombie by the end which I thought was a shame as I really liked the promise of the story in the first issue.

Skip Tracer did feel a bit generic.

Looking forward to where things go into with prog 2114!