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Messages - Colin YNWA

#16
PART 2

I had a similar, but different experience with E.C. Segar's Popeye. I loved it when I first read it in the giant volumes Fantagraphics put out a few years ago. But after burning bright I realised I was running out of steam and quickly got bored. I quickly exhausted the things I could get from it. With Krazy Kat I didn't even get that far. This leads me to another thought that makes me tempted to give it another go.

In one a video I watched in the series Jim Rugg mentions that we can make the mistake of reading these old strips, once presented as snippets daily, in great gulps now as they are collected in large lovely volumes we want to read in one go. That's not how these comics were designed to be read. The slow pace of the one strip a day is built into the design and repetition of the ideas (as I see them). Instead Rugg suggests even in these bumper volumes we should ration ourselves, read a page or two a day. Allow that to sit and settle in our minds before charging ahead. Read them slower, as intended and that might enrich the experience.

That idea appeals to me. I think I should maybe give it another go. Try again, after all there's clearly a heck of a lot here to be loved. Then again maybe I should try to force it. It's okay not to get on with comics other, many others, see as a classic. If it doesn't present ideas, even if you might like these ideas - or the idea of those ideas... I'm stretching this aren't I, even if you might like the themes others see in it if it's not presented in a way that allows you as a reader to easily get to, or in a way that challenges you to get to them in a way that's enjoyable. That's fine, that's okay. We can't and shouldn't all like the same things and sometimes however much you might want to love a series its best just to shrug, except it's not for you and move on. There's far too many great comics out to burn too much energy liking something just because you feel you should, or folks you respect do. They aren't you, aren't seeking the same things , don't have the same reference points or experience to bring to their reading so there is no reason to expect to like the same stuff.

To do otherwise is just smacking yourself on the back of your head with a brick!
#17
PART 1

Not on the list - Krazy Cat

So while we're talking about newspaper strips I think this is a good time to explain a little as to why one of the strip widely regarded as one of the greatest, if not THE greatest of all time doesn't make the list. Join me as I just don't get



And we learn why it is okay not to love, or even particularly like one of the best regarded comic strips of all time.

Krazy Kat, or occasionally known as Krazy and Ignatz is an American newspaper strip that ran from 1913 to 1944 - yep a massively impressive run. Produced by George Herriman the series details the adventure of Krazy Kat of the title and his love for Ignatz, a mouse who he loves. Alas all Ignatz seems to want to do is throw bricks at Krazy's head. In Between the two is Officer Pupp, who loves Krazy and tries to stop Ignatz brick throwing antics.

For over 30 years.

Okay, okay it's clear that there is more to this series. A LOT more! Beyond the simple concept and absurdist humour there are layers of meaning and themes. The nature of love, the shifting nature of self and environment, lessons in life in general. It is widely regarded as the first serious 'art' comic. It plays gleefully with its language and the comic form, really experimenting with what can be done with the page and how the comic form can explore so much more than its simple outer dressing would suggest.

But look I don't get on with it so while I don't normally link to external pages and thoughts on a series in these 'not in' entries I think in this instance it's important as I know I'm missing a whole lot about what makes this comic so great and so important. For a better overview of the strip there's great these videos out there if you fancy, for example

Matttt has a brilliant examination of both the strip, its ideas and themes and very significantly the sad history of its creator George Herriman.

There's plenty more out there if you search but these two give a real favour of how well regarded these comics are and the ideas it plays with.

And I just don't get it, and to be honest that's fine, it's absolutely fine. I mean it's on me, it's clearly nothing to do with the quality of the work. What I'd like to explore is though is why that is and why that doesn't make me a bad reader of comics.

I first read Krazy Kat maybe 20 years ago when I picked up a lovely Taschen Books collection of the stories from a book seller who came into the Library I worked at the time. I was just getting back into comics but even then I was vaguely aware of Krazy Kat and how well it was regarded, so I snapped up the book with glee and excitedly read it... and it bounced right off me.
I couldn't break into the old world language and pattern of dialogue. The art, while having a certain charm, was rudimentary and didn't appeal to me at that time - I was mainly reading mainstream superhero stuff as I broke back into comics. Unlike Liberty Meadows which I was heavy into on that return to comics, its ideas were front and centre, they weren't straightforward. Its references are oblique and lost  to 2004(ish) Mr YNWA in the mists of time. I just wasn't ready for it.

Even though I got nothing from it I determined to keep it. After all, even then I knew I should like it, I'd heard of it even back in the day before my wilderness years. I'd keep it and return to it. Which I did maybe 10 years later. I was trimming down my collection... or realistically getting rid of old stuff to allow space for new stuff after moving house. I'd been back into comics for 10 years. My reading was starting to shift again so surely this time I was ready for it.

Nope.

Nope.

Once again it bounced off me. Maybe for the same reasons, it certainly felt like the same reasons. I could now see more in the art. It was undoubtedly foundational for sure, but in being foundational I could see works that had built on those foundations and built better. The language and themes still felt so of a bygone age... well cos it was from a bygone again so no real surprise there I guess. Again I wanted to like it, possibly even more so I thought my reading had developed so this time surely... but nope my reaction was much the same.

This time I decided I didn't have to be a slave to my desire to like it. If I didn't like it, I didn't like it, was trimming down and so it had to go and go and it did - very readily I should note folks who got on with it fought long and hard over it on an ebay auction site... they new better than me!

Or did they. It really doesn't matter that I don't like it. I come to reading with my needs and my expectations and however much smarter, more comic 'literate' folks love this stuff doesn't mean I should or I'm any less of a reader for not liking it. It didn't meet my needs. On my second read I do wonder if that in part was shaped by my initial reaction. That first impressions count and my hadn't been positive and maybe that was lodged in my mind. I'm not sure as I've returned to numerous comics over the years, as I've changed as a person and so reader, and liked stuff more, or often less. So I think I can re-read things with an open mind and reevaluate. I just think that I'm immune to the charms, wit and insight of Krazy Kat.

In part I think that might be as it does feel so routed in its time. It feels odd and inaccessible to me. I get this with a lot of classic fiction. I don't get on with Charles Dicken, Bronte, well pretty much any prose literature before the 21st century (Mark Twain being a notable exception, there are less examples as well). Sometimes the style of a period, the thought process that went into things, the insights that feel so universal to others, or at least the way they are expressed, just don't work for an individual reader. That is the situation with Krazy Kat and me.

It's not the ideas and themes I don't get per say, that others do see and relish, it's the execution that doesn't allow me to see those themes and ideas clearly in the work. There will be exceptions we will get to much later in this list where the things I look for aren't obscured for me by the passage of time. 
#18
Quote from: Tjm86 on 06 April, 2024, 04:45:06 PMMaybe my problem is that I'm looking for relatively (okay, possibly insanely) obscure stuff like IDW's reprints of the Star Trek Gold Key and TV21 strips or Titan's third Flash Gordon book.  Sort of stuff that didn't have a massive print run in the first place and has now dropped off the radar.  I've nearly completely Boom Studio's Do Android Dreams in hardback and that has been a challenge too.

Oh christ yeah that sort of stuff can be a mare to find once its gone. All helps generate the FOMO... the exact type of thing that meant based on comments here and a quick bit of research I've just won ALL 8 volumes of Goodnight Punpun in one go rather than try it out first!

Quote from: AlexF on 08 April, 2024, 12:43:59 PM-that said, I can stomach Cho's women far more than J Scott campbell, who seems to relish the back-breaking pose and weird pixie face style of superhero art.

Oh ain't that the truth. There's a number of artists who seem to do countless covers in that style and I really don't get on with it at all.

Its also interesting that I'm a lot less put off by Adam Hughes stuff than Cho's and I'm never quite sure why that is. I find Hughes work nearer Amanda Connor and while it can get a little sigh worthy it never quite puts me off as much as Cho's. There's something more... teenage giggles about Cho's work for me. Art huh so stupidly objective!

Quote from: Illyana on 06 April, 2024, 12:54:03 AMDuuuuuude. Beautiful writing!

Errr thank you, that's a lovely thing to say but I quite sure I don't deserve it. I don't even begin to think my writing as anything other than me sneezing things out of my brain in as painless way as possible. Given some of your bits I've read - I've read your Carrie Fisher piece don't forget! - you know how to write!
#19
General / Re: Forthcoming Thrills - 2024
07 April, 2024, 03:33:25 PM
Nice one. As ever with Hibernia ordered as soon as I heard about it.
#20
News / Re: The Great Dante Readthrough Podcast
05 April, 2024, 09:30:14 PM
Well as luck would have it I had an evening of chorin' so had time to listen to the return tonight and wow its great to have you back and on such fine form.

Thanks for answering the questions from last time. As it happens I'm currently pestering this board with my 'Completely self absorbed Top 100 comic runs you need to read' a list that has at this point 137 runs, series, comics in it - ahem. Now its a countdown and after having completed my latest re-read - yep I did a complete Dante re-read since while you were on a break! - I can confirm that you'll likely be done before I get to Dante in the list BUT atno.99 is Elektra Assassin(assuming you are including that when you say Elektra Saga?).

But just so you know I'm not just 'blowin' smoke up your ass' I also write posts about stuff I'm not as big a fan as many and in a week or three (soonish anyway) I'll be talking about Uncanny X-Men in that context - yike!

https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=49476.msg1111789#msg1111789
#21
News / Re: The Great Dante Readthrough Podcast
05 April, 2024, 06:04:41 PM
Way and indeed hey.

That is fantastic news. Hope you've all been keepin' shiny and wonderful!
#22


I'll slip this one in before I go on me holidays. I might post next week. I might not. It'll depend on how the adventure away takes me!

Run down of top 100 - 133 -120

Run down of Top 100: 119 - 110

Run down of Top 100: 109 - 101

100 - Contract with God

99 - Elektra Assassin

98 - Plastic Man by Kyle Baker

97 - Mega Robo Bros

96 - Brass Sun

95 - Watchmen

94  - Madman

93 - Fourth World Saga

92 - Rasl

91 - Liberty Meadows (Part 1 at least this one had to be broken into 5 parts (and not cos I went on longer than normal before you say anything!)

Not on the List - From Hell
#23
Books & Comics / Re: Whats everyone reading?
05 April, 2024, 02:12:24 PM
Quote from: broodblik on 05 April, 2024, 02:02:07 PM....and I like marmite too  :lol:

Oh just get outta here you freak!
#24
Quote from: Barrington Boots on 05 April, 2024, 10:33:39 AMI have some huge deluxe Hellboy editions and they're absolutely glorious - massive pages for the art, look awesome on the shelf - but to read them you do need to either sit down at a big, clear table or potentially stand at a medieval style pulpit as they're far too unwieldy for reading on the sofa or in bed.

Anything that can't be read slumped on the couch is doing something wrong! Though the idea of a medival pulpit in the living room has a certain appeal!

Also I think I'm the only person in the world who didn't get on with Hellboy. I watch a YouTube video with various YouTubes selecting their fav Dark Horse titles (it was from their 35th Ann. year) and almost everyone either picked Hellboy OR said they hadn't cos they knew everyone else would!

AND only 'For the Love of Comics' picked Concrete. So full of wrong!

Quote from: Barrington Boots on 05 April, 2024, 10:33:39 AMI'd no real knowledge of Liberty Meadows and my main Frank Cho exposure is cheesecakey Marvel covers, so this was an interesting read, thanks Colin - I assumed it was something that might have run in Heavy Metal rather than newspapers. That Calvin & Hobbes strip is delightful.

Seriously try the free online daily strips - if you don't like it no harm. But if you enjoy them as much as I did...
#25
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 05 April, 2024, 10:25:50 AMUsagi Yojimbo because those DH editions are just too gorgeous not to; a few Marvel omnis because the series in question weren't compiled any other way.

I've got the first four Usagi Yojimbo Sagas in paperback charging up my 'To Read' spreadsheet. I'm eying them nervously having just read the 'Complete Eightball' in a similar, but slightly smaller (I think) format and that was a little uncomfortable to read.

There's a bit of me wondering whether I need to just bite the bullet and start collecting the floppies (well from the start of the Dark Horse stuff - as any earlier is going to get expensive!) given how much I love what I've read to date...

...sigh... once again too damned many great comics...
#26
Books & Comics / Re: Whats everyone reading?
05 April, 2024, 01:52:28 PM
Quote from: broodblik on 05 April, 2024, 08:55:09 AMI can remember reading 52 but I can not remember Final Crisis. Maybe its just me but I find reading Morrison's work mostly painful with over complicating concepts and arcs which becomes difficult to follow and mostly incomprehensible. I never liked anything Morrison did except Zenith. He was always for me very much over rated writer.

And to think I had such respect for you [colin_ynwa turns away and walks away from POV, slowly, head bowed. His slow arm movements suggest he's wiping a tear from his eye]
#27
Books & Comics / Re: Whats everyone reading?
05 April, 2024, 08:34:15 AM
I love Final Crisis (back to another post you made I do have that in a lovely hardcover collection as its not too big and just works so well for his story pulling everything together and has extra pages not in the comics which really add something) and I find it so wonderfully ...charming.

Comparing it to Infinite Crisis is interesting and says in some specific ways why I like it so much. In Infinite - as I recall - Superboy bends reality by hitting the wall of the world they are trapped in after Crisis on Infinite Earths (its been a while so excuse me if that is wrong). In Final Superman sings to create vibrations at specific frequencies to save the day. The former felt a little weird, the latter is entirely weird but in a way that embraces the crazy charm of the silver age and the hyper-reality of superhero comics. The former feels 90s, the latter feels like its straight form the imagination of Jack Kirby.
#28
Quote from: Tjm86 on 05 April, 2024, 08:07:20 AMOne thing I've noticed since the pandemic is that graphic novel prices have risen quite a bit on the 2nd hand market.  Used to be that they were cheap as chips and easy to track down.  Now though, you see crazy prices being asked.

Some of this is the print runs towards the end of series.  That's not always the case though.  I do wonder how much of this is algorithms slowly pushing prices higher and higher.

From what I've seen trade paperpacks can often be pretty easy and cheap. I'm selling at a mart this weekend (Sheffield come buy my stuff - normally not listed here as the stuff I talk about here is the stuff I'm keeping damnit!) and you'll get all sorts of offers on trades. There are of course exceptions. Its the bigger hardcover, deluxe and omnibus type things that seem to go wild in price.

In part I think (and this is utter speculation) this is to do to how good they look on shelves. If you watch YouTube videos from comics folks they so often seem to be surrounded by shelves full of lovely hardcovers and omnibuses and it makes them seem so desirable... me I find them to bulky to read comfortably. I wonder if that's a factor. Why have long box after long box of floppies if you can have lovely neat looking collections on your shelves.
#29
Sorry about that folks. Hopefully I won't need to break things up like that in the future. The issue did seem to sort itself last time so...
#30
Part 5

Where to find it

Liberty Meadows doesn't seem to be as available as it once was. It's all been collected but I'm not sure it's all still in print and some seem to be getting a bit pricey. I'm not sure the collections are available digitally either?

Fortunately it still appears daily on 'Go Comics' in a cycle so I think if you are prepared to click 'back' enough times and we're talking maybe 1000 times - seems like you can read it online for free, as originally presented for nowt.

If you want it physically it looks like it will have to be the aftermarket. These do crop up if you are patient you can get the comics at not too crazy prices. The trades seem to pop up as well.

Other than that just wait for Frank Cho to finally get around to releasing new materials as I bet when that happens the older stuff will be re-released.

Learn more

Obligatory Wikipedia page

Grand Comics Database has a couple of cover galleries, one for Insight Studios issues and another for the later Image Comics which give an impression of how Frank Cho represent female characters visually.

A quick summary from Frank Cho's own site.

Creators.com has another collection of the strip and this one has a handy dandy date selector so hopefully that's linked to the beginning of the newspaper strip and you can scroll forward from there. Unfortunately the Sunday pages seems to have got out of sync, but the dailies seem to be in order from a quick look.

Not a load more out there, some bits and pieces. So I've linked to Goodreads - Eden vol. 1 so you can get a sense of the diversity of views on this one. Reviews of the other volumes can be found there too.

What is all this?

Conscious that this is becoming a long thread and if you're wondering what the heck you've just read and can't be arsed (quite sensibly) to search back to find out I'll link to my opening posts that try to explain all this.

What this all came from

And of course a nerd won't do a list like this without setting 'Rules' / guidelines

Some thoughts on what will not be on the list.