The Political Thread

[JayzusB.Christ]

Quite.
The current guy was ok when he used to present Bullseye, but he should have stuck with the day job.

[The Legendary Shark]

Wasn't a dig at you, JBC - I was trying to be hilarously sarcastic. And failing, as usual.

I must say, though, that "being ruled by an abusive body of organised superstition" is an excellent way of describing government!

[TordelBack]

Joe has the right of it. It's the fact that 2.7 million out of 3.3 million people lined up for Mass in the Park in 1979, literally every kid I knew, whereas only 0.13 million out of 4.8 million could be arsed this time. I don't it was JP2 v Francis, I think it was the dawn of sanity.

[JOE SOAP]

These 2 charmin', drinkin', smokin', shaggin' boyos were the real face of the 80s Irish Church. We knew them. They were one of us. They could pack churches in every town – and they weren't even paedos.

[JayzusB.Christ]

Joe has the right of it. It's the fact that 2.7 million out of 3.3 million people lined up for Mass in the Park in 1979, literally every kid I knew, whereas only 0.13 million out of 4.8 million could be arsed this time. I don't it was JP2 v Francis, I think it was the dawn of sanity.

Precisely.  It's not a question of who was the most popular pontiff - it's the fact that we now have a stark illustration of how more and more people are realising that the teachings of this organisation, whoever heads it, are at worst toxic and at best irrelevant.

Sharky, I know you weren't having a dig at me; I just didn't feel like turning this into yet another anti-state argument. Didn't realise you were joking, sorry.

[TordelBack]

These 2 charmin', drinkin', smokin', shaggin' boyos were the real face of the 80s Irish Church. We knew them. They were one of us. They could pack churches in every town – and they weren't even paedos.

S'right, they were everywhere.  Lad on the right came to our school (and it was a proddy school!) to lecture us on the evils of drink,  drugs and sex, and he was bloody good at it (even if it didn't take hold) . Lad on the left had two damnably catchy songs written about him.

Try and imagine that mainland chums, two blokes in curtains as ubiquitous and influential as Esther Rantzen and the Green Cross Code man.

And when we found out who they really were, it was hard to take anything seriously.

And they were just hypocrites, not the fucking monsters we discovered later.

[Professor Bear]

Don't get me wrong, it's great people are staying away, I'd just prefer to know for certain that it was for the right reasons, as my concern isn't the extremely relative merits of the contestants of the Best Pope nominations, but that low attendance might be just as explainable in terms of the Irish thinking the current incumbent is not socially conservative enough.
And yes, I realise I say that as an occupant of the only part of this island that won't decriminalise abortion.

[Tjm86]

Just curious as to where folks stand on the Rochdale Herald's take on the Papal Visit.

[JayzusB.Christ]

but that low attendance might be just as explainable in terms of the Irish thinking the current incumbent is not socially conservative enough.

I'd be very surprised if that were the reason. After two landslide referendum results to allow gay marriage and abortion, I am pleased to say it doesn't seem like this country is getting more conservative.  The nonstop barrage of abuse revelations doesn't exactly suggest that people want a return to the past so-called glories of Catholic power here either.

[JOE SOAP]

Ireland will remain a predominantly Catholic country but Church attendance figures have been falling for the last 20 years and the few men joining the priesthood seem to be using it (still) as a closet for the profane rather than the sacred.

September 29, 2017

For the first time in living memory, first-year clerical student numbers are higher in the Protestant Church in Ireland than in the biggest Catholic institution for the priesthood.

The Irish Times reported that just six men have begun training for the Catholic priesthood at St. Patrick's College Maynooth this autumn. It is believed to be the lowest number since its foundation in 1795.  There are a total 41 men studying for the priesthood in Maynooth.

Twice as many students started training for ministry in the Church of Ireland this month, with 12 admissions, including two women, to the Church of Ireland Theological Institute in Dublin. In total there are 34 students in training at the institute, 10 of them women.

In August last year the college was at the center of controversy when it emerged that the Archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, said he was no longer going to send seminarians there because of its "poisonous" atmosphere.

He said students were accessing gay dating apps and anonymous letters were being circulated accusing seminarians of misconduct.

The college administration said it shared "the concern" of Archbishop Martin about the "poisonous atmosphere" created by anonymous correspondence and blogs. It added, however, there was "no concrete or credible evidence of the existence of any alleged 'active gay subculture'" at the seminary.


https://www.irishcentral.com/news/irishvoice/ireland-has-more-protestant-priests-training-than-catholic

[Professor Bear]

Not sure if this is the place to speak of ComicsGate, but I thought earlier "I'm looking at Twitter a bit too much" and went off and did some work, and when I came back later and checked Twitter, ComicsGaters were literally sending each other pictures of their gaping anuses.  I don't know what this means as objective discourse, but in terms of nailing down a paradigm I think they are to be commended for a job well done.

[I, Cosh]

So... What's Comicsgate?

[Professor Bear]

I believe I already mentioned posting pictures of gaping anuses on social media, and that pretty much covers it.

On the offchance you need more to go on, ComicsGate is a racist hate movement - with a healthy dollop of misogyny - that blames the decline of comic book sales in North America on diversity rather than poor distribution of an increasingly impenetrable product.  The movement gained traction when distributors and comic store owners passed the buck from the lousy job they were doing to the comics themselves and now 90 percent of Youtube videos about comics are just fat white men screaming about feminism.  Oh, and that one guy who expressed his displeasure at that new Avengers comics with women and gay cast members in it by stabbing the comic to pieces with a knife and then throwing the pieces across the room while screaming that he hated it, though I still say the gaping anuses thing is where we really pinned the button on this.

[Tjm86]

This is something that I became aware of over the weekend.  Not going anywhere near Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat or any other 'antisocial media' platforms, it was a news report on CBR that caught my eye and prompted a bit of investigating.  It really does seem to be yet one more depressing example of how the potential of the internet has been utterly derailed in the last decade or so. 

Does it belong on the Political Thread as an issue?  I'd say yes, particularly since one of the most disturbing aspects is the creation and distribution of lists of creators who should be boycotted at the comic shop.  The McCarthyite dimension of this issue is apparently lost on proponents.  For me personally, the other issue is the manifestation of a disturbing and powerful trend for hostility towards alternative viewpoints that shuts down debate completely.  The implications for the democratic process and social cohesion are rather profound but at present there is no scope for exploring them properly.

Let's face it, there are a range of political views among boarders that are engaged with and defended robustly but as a general rule there is an underlying respect both for the individual and the intellectual integrity of those views.  However questionable they might appear, they are at least engaged with from a position of respect for the most part (unless you are a Thatcherite in which case .... )

I would say that pictures of gaping anuses is probably the perfect metaphor for this movement.

[sheridan]

Does it belong on the Political Thread as an issue?  I'd say yes, particularly since one of the most disturbing aspects is the creation and distribution of lists of creators who should be boycotted at the comic shop. 

I'd love to see that list (so that I can buy their productions if I find myself wanting to try something new, naturally).

The McCarthyite dimension of this issue is apparently lost on proponents.

Erm, they would probably support McCarthy?