2000 AD - The Ultimate Collection

[IndigoPrime]

It's meant to be the Ultimate Collection, not the nostalgia collection.

Or the "we already have the press-ready art for most of these" collection. That said, I was quite tempted to keep the ABC Warriors book for the revised SMS art over the relatively iffy production in the Mek-Files.

A think it's partly down to the age you were at the time. I wasn't around for those, so they don't have the benefit of nostalgia.

There is an element of that, but good writing is good writing. As an example, I finally read the Wagner's Walk floppy last night. The first half (which people wonder may have been a reworked Hellman's tale) is pretty strong, if a bit quirky in that late 1970s/early 1980s way; the second half is crap. Early 2000 AD is similar. There are some stories that still hold up really well, such as a great deal of Strontium Dog, and a lot of Sláine and Nemesis. But, yeah, I find Robo-Hunter pretty trying, and Ace Trucking has its moments (and some lovely art) but kind of annoyed me even back in the day. 

I credit Sinister Dexter with ultimately driving me away from 2000AD, not long after it debuted. I just couldn't see the appeal and resented how frequently it was given space. As a result I gave anything by Dan Abnett a hard pass for many years. I've changed my position on Abnett, but can't say I'm looking forward to these volumes.

I've been reading quite a lot of old Abnett of late, such as his run on GOTG and the stuff that came before it. I've just come to the conclusion (as presumably shared by those on the re-read threads finding early Grey Area) that he's just a much better writer now with more years under his pen/typing fingers. Even Sin/Dex feels a lot smarter now (even if DA's never really been able the square the attempts at morality within the strip); but head back a decade and his writing has its issues, not least with a kind of rampant sexism throughout chunks of the Marvel runs.

As for the collection in general, I suppose at least people who do a little research now know what they're getting and can plan accordingly. And for people who are newish readers, or lapsed for a large chunk, or who really adore Pat Mills, there's a whole lot to like.

[Arkady]

I do think the Collection has been great overall so far, especially the design and production quality of the books. And I can see why they have leaned heavily on the 'classic' stuff to help sell to people who recall the Prog when its readership was at its largest.

I *loved* Sinister Dexter back in the day, and find it extremely trying now. I'm looking forward to reading it in the UC to see whether the early stuff was as good as I recall.

Come on though, is there ANYONE else who remembers Mambo fondly? The body-horror stuff in that blew my mind as a kid.

[Tjm86]

I find Robo-Hunter pretty trying, and Ace Trucking has its moments (and some lovely art) but kind of annoyed me even back in the day. 

For me Robo-Hunter is a perfect example of a strip that seriously outlived its potential.  If I'm completely honest, Verdus is the only story that really interested me.  It had that heady mix of stark-staring bonkers characters (B.O., Robopoly, Verdus parliament, Naffi (sic) droid ... ), insane situations and amazing artwork.  As with his Robo-War work, Gibson's work on Verdus has a fascinating intricacy to it.  With Ace you have Bellardinelli's surreal Euro-Sci-Fi take but ultimately a character who never should have been resurrected, never mind duplicated.

[Mattofthespurs]

They football one was brilliant. But then I was 11 and madly in love with football. Haven't re-read it since. Dare not.

[Colin YNWA]

For me the early Brit-Cit stories are some of the best strip in that period of 2000ad late 200s into early 300s and there were some superb strips in that time. It struggled in almost all of the long form stories though and I feel they missed a bit of a trick there.

Mind Farewell by Billions is another high point for me.

Oh and if you lot don't start being nice about Sinister Dexter I'll get me dance out again, so help me I'll get it out again...

[TordelBack]

I credit Sinister Dexter with ultimately driving me away from 2000AD, not long after it debuted. I just couldn't see the appeal and resented how frequently it was given space.

I was the same - I would have pointed at seemingly endless episodes of Sinister Dexter (and Nikolai Dante!) as one of the main reasons for staying away from the Prog for years (after I stopped buying regularly in disgust at Millar's Dredd and general disinterest in almost everything else).  When I returned to the comic in 1999 I was horrified to see that it (and Nikolai Dante!) were still going. Vayase! (and Fuoco!)

Nowadays Sin-Dex (and Nikolai Dante!) is one of my all-time favourite thrills, I can't get enough (I mean I literally can't get enough, because they just won't reprint the bloody thing).  It's uneven to be sure, but ultimately it's such a flexible format that accommodates violence, slapstick, pathos, melodrama, parody, tragedy and wordplay, oh such wordplay! 

I hope whatever they do give us in the Ultimate Collection is the right mix to sell it to the maximum number of unbelievers.

[sintec]

Finished Time Killer, that got to be somewhat of a slog.  There were some quality moments, the battle in the arena towards the end stands out.  But, ugh, too much waffly nonsense exposition and not enough cleaving things in two with axes.  It really feels like some of these ideas would have been better in a different series.

Dark Jimbo hit the nail on the head earlier in this thread

When you've constructed a whole culture, history and world around your hero, why wrench him out of that? Drunes, dragons, cloud curragh, dwarfs and fomorians - there's your stories. That's what I want to read about.

Couldn't agree more.  I'm guessing Pat felt that in order to extend the characters lifetime in the comic he needed more than that and so this episode was constructed to pull back the curtain and reveal the powers behind the power. To widen the scope of Slaine's world in order to line up some foes to replace Slough Feg when Slaine eventually defeats him. Sadly it mostly felt a bit forced and somewhat naff.  And worst of all, just not very interesting in comparison to the world we had previously.  If these ideas had been introduced more gradually. Foreshadowed and then drip fed into the story a bit before the big reveal. A little more show and a little less tell. Then maybe, just maybe, it might have worked.  That's a pretty big maybe mind. 

It's also sad to think that's the last Bellardinelli Slaine we'll be seeing. Battle of Clontarf looks absolutely stunning and I've really enjoyed all his other work on the series. Alongside Mike McMahon (whose work was also stunning) he constructed a grim world around our hero. Their replacements just didn't really seem to cut the mustard in comparison but maybe the crap story is colouring my vision a little. Given where Pat wanted to go with this story I can see the logic in changing up the art team. I see most of the next volume is Farby so maybe he'll convince me yet.

Anyway I have an unred copy of Judge Death Lives on my bookshelf - that should cleanse my palette.

[Frank]

Given where Pat wanted to go with this story I can see the logic in changing up the art team. I see most of the next volume is Farby so maybe he'll convince me yet.

It's not all Farby; David Pguh draws most of the episodes.

Regarding the change of subject matter, I think it might be the other way around - Mills went a bit sci-fi because he'd found someone who (in Mills's words) draws like Moebius. That, and I'd always assumed people kept on asking what a strip about barbarians was doing in a sci-fi comic.

I can see how the contrivances of Time Killer might feel a little odd coming after the artisanal feel of the McMahon stories, but the Leyser era was my introduction to the character, so it was Slaine The King's return to dung and henna tattoos^* that struck me as a change of pace. I liked both.

Just to demonstrate I see where you're coming from, when Mills dropped the Celtic stuff and sent Slaine off on a rampage through A Boy's Book Of British History for a few years, I was all sad about leaving Tir Nan Og and the cast of familiar characters behind. But, as the story of Slough Feg demonstrates, change is necessary and good.<sup>**


*</sup> Reading all the early strips as some sort of half-arsed graphic novel might make the gear-changes seem a bit crunchy, but it's easy to forget that most kids would have read 2000ad for a few years then moved on. There'd be kids picking up Time Killer who assumed the strip had always been that way

^**Mills-haters can silently mouth their own your own jokes to themselves, here

[TordelBack]

To be fair to Mills, all that quasi-SF stuff was there from the start: as I never seem to tire of pointing out, the very first page is a T-Rex emerging from a time portal created by drune magic in a trilithon.  With the story leading us to the Eternal Fortress on the way home, and a suitable new crop of artists coming on board, a diversion into elder gods, time-travel and high-tech pre-human civilisations was on the cards from day one: it's that kind of fantasy.  And time-travel is also there in the source material: what's Oisín's meeting with St. Patrick after his return from Tír na n'Óg if not a celtic version of Demolition Man?

[sintec]

Yeah the change in context from weekly episodes spread over half a year into a collected form probably doesn't do it any favours.  Nor does pairing it with Dragonheist which had much more in common with the rest of Volume 1 and so made the change feel even more jarring.

I was fine with dinosaurs coming through time portals and flying sky ships powered by blood magic and ley lines.  Somehow leysers and Cythrons were a step too far for some reason. I don't think the sudden change of feel from gritty, grim and earthy to hi-tech universe spanning sci-fi helped.

[Frank]

Tir Nan Og

Tír na n'Óg

Your fingers must have looked like Simone Biles doing a floor routine as they performed all the key combinations necessary to make that pop up on screen.*

Anyway, Time Killer is brilliant! If the ingenious/cringeworthy Dev-els wordplay doesn't do it for you, then surely the fantastically inventive^** stuff about restoring the macrocosmic balance should. Particularly the scene where they're forced to coo sweet nothings to Pluke so he can get it up.


* I should feel Celt-shamed, but it's not my fault the English oppressors cruelly forced my people not to give a dry shite about the tongue we would otherwise hold so dear. Even though none of us ever actually spoke it.

** Although problematic from the perspective of the ongoing narrative. Seems to come and go as a concept. When it was dropped into one of the books of Brutania Chronicles, recently, I almost spat out my cornflakes.

[sintec]

I could quite happily have down without pluke altogether tbh. And all the waffle about the macrocosmic balance just read like recycled hippy claptrap. ymmv of course.

[Dark Jimbo]

I could quite happily have down without pluke altogether tbh. And all the waffle about the macrocosmic balance just read like recycled hippy claptrap. ymmv of course.

Aw, I really liked Pluke.

[Frank]

recycled hippy claptrap

Man, you are going to love the series about the zodiac, the Earth goddess and reincarnation! Slaine's all claptrap, all the time.

[maryanddavid]

what's Oisín's meeting with St. Patrick after his return from Tír na n'Óg if not a celtic version of Demolition Man?

Good job Oisín and Tuan managed to travel in time to tell the tales, Sláine would never have existed. Or maybe he would have if he traveled in time. Araaggg!!!