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The Last Jedi - Forum Opinion

Started by Link Prime, 29 January, 2018, 04:04:13 PM

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TordelBack

#135
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 18 April, 2018, 10:18:01 PMDemonstrating to the audience what they all ready guessed was true is hardly going against what had all ready been set-up...

She explicitly demonstrates Force ability as recently as TFA, when she senses Han's death, so the viewer doesn't even need to delve back as far as Bespin.  Plus Ben didn't lick it off the stones. 

As to being a Jedi, well, the movie goes to some length to establish that that isn't a requirement.

JOE SOAP

I recently heard a youtube critic of Rian Johnson's opine –specifically, regards the flying-nun scene– that one of his problems is he's a show, don't tell director...

Tjm86

Quote from: TordelBack on 18 April, 2018, 08:51:56 PM

Who taught ....

No-one did. 

Some abilities are demonstrably innate, or instinctive, in those pre-disposed to them. 

Two other cases that are worth considering here as well in favour of this argument; the stable boy at the end of the Last Jedi and Rey.  Both use the force to move objects.  In Rey's case it is clear that prior to approaching Luke she had no training but was able to do this (Lightsaber duel on Starkiller base).  In the stable boy's case there is no evidence to suggest an training, in fact the casual way in which he does it suggests it is something he is used to as matter of fact, or 'instinctive'.

TordelBack

In my head-canon, "using the Force" isn't even the point of Jedi/Sith training - they're philosophies of focus, interpretation, approach and aims. The ability, the pull of light and dark, these are innate, simply honed and developed.

Link Prime

Quote from: Professor Bear on 18 April, 2018, 09:09:23 PM
"Poe Damaron is my most trusted agent and I sent him on the most important mission the Rebellion had, and which was important to me personally, I trust him more than anyone in the whole of the Rebellion, even you, but I am specifically trying to teach him a lesson about going off and doing things on his own because that might result in deaths of people willing to follow him and others who will die as collateral and this is an especially precarious time for us all where any action might kill dozens, if not thousands of people and doom the galaxy to eternal fascism... what was I saying again?  Oh yes: don't tell him the plan if I get injured or something LOL.  Anyway, I'm just going to go sit on the bridge with Akbar for a minute.  BRB."

Its almost as if Johnson filmed the scene where they patronizingly patted 'troublesome' comatose Poe on the head first, then worked backwards from that moment, no matter how preposterous the plot.

Link Prime

Most of you regular YouTube viewers have probably already seen this, but I was just sent the link recently.
Very funny, and spot on too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCB8DUGpYQQ

Professor Bear

Quote from: Link Prime on 19 April, 2018, 11:15:34 AM
Most of you regular YouTube viewers have probably already seen this, but I was just sent the link recently.
Very funny, and spot on too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCB8DUGpYQQ

That was pretty painful to watch, but I'm not surprised its fans are falling over themselves to make excuses for it.  And the How It Should Have Ended based on it wasn't very good either.


TordelBack

Quote from: Professor Bear on 19 April, 2018, 02:06:17 PM
Quote from: Link Prime on 19 April, 2018, 11:15:34 AM
Most of you regular YouTube viewers have probably already seen this, but I was just sent the link recently.
Very funny, and spot on too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCB8DUGpYQQ

That was pretty painful to watch, but I'm not surprised its fans are falling over themselves to make excuses for it.  And the How It Should Have Ended based on it wasn't very good either.

Heh, I liked it.  Increasingly I spend HISHE videos marvelling at how much the visuals have improved, but that's a thing too.

Keef Monkey

Rewatched this last night in 4K and it looked glorious! Still love the movie too (sorry/not sorry).

Magnetica

Just completed my first rewatch and overall I didn't mind the stuff that grated in the cinema such as:

Luke throwing away the light sabre, his overall attitude - basically that's where he's at

Leia's force gliding thing - I am just ignoring the whole part of the film where she gets sucked out into space

The Casino planet sequence - it didn't seem so long this time and as has been said on the original thread, just because the heroes try something doesn't mean it has to work out

So yes overall quite enjoyed it. Still think the tone is too jokey.

Oh and another plot hole occurred to me. When the First Order are unable to catch up with the resistance ships, why didn't they just send a few Star Destroyers ahead via a small light speed jump to cut them off?

Mardroid

Quote from: Magnetica on 23 April, 2018, 10:10:56 PM
Just completed my first rewatch and overall I didn't mind the stuff that grated in the cinema such as:

Luke throwing away the light sabre, his overall attitude - basically that's where he's at

Leia's force gliding thing - I am just ignoring the whole part of the film where she gets sucked out into space

The Casino planet sequence - it didn't seem so long this time and as has been said on the original thread, just because the heroes try something doesn't mean it has to work out

So yes overall quite enjoyed it. Still think the tone is too jokey.

Oh and another plot hole occurred to me. When the First Order are unable to catch up with the resistance ships, why didn't they just send a few Star Destroyers ahead via a small light speed jump to cut them off?

I'm not sure hyperspace jumps are as precise as that. I know Han Solo did some fairly precise jumping in the Millenium Falcon in the previous film but that was in a much smaller vessel, and the jumps were still fairly long.

TordelBack

#147
Quote from: Mardroid on 23 April, 2018, 10:45:44 PM
I'm not sure hyperspace jumps are as precise as that. I know Han Solo did some fairly precise jumping in the Millenium Falcon in the previous film but that was in a much smaller vessel, and the jumps were still fairly long.

Hard to say how all this works: we see Vader's ship (the Devastator?) make an extremely precise jump to do essentially this in Rogue One, and there a lot of precision arrivals of capital ships in the cartoons.  Plus the FO fleet seems able to jump right on top of the rebels after their first hyperspace jump (but this may be because of their 'active tracking' setup). Length of jump may well be a factor, but with about a dozen Star Destroyers in pursuit you would think they could spare a handful to make an attempt, even just to rattle the resistance.

My take would be that it is a philosophical issue - as with their reliance on cumbersome and inefficient walkers and superweapons, the Empire and Empire-adjacent like to present themselves as relentless, implacable and overwhelming: slowly grinding the last of the Resistance down in a protracted chase that showcases the asymmetric nature of their fleets suits the self-image better than a cat-and-mouse game across the stars, which could potentially play into the more nimble and heroic mien of the rebels.

Eric Plumrose

Quote from: Magnetica on 23 April, 2018, 10:10:56 PM
Just completed my first rewatch and overall I didn't mind the stuff that grated in the cinema such as:

Luke throwing away the light sabre, his overall attitude - basically that's where he's at

Didn't work for me simply because the movies at no point depict Luke as being the acme of Jediliness. His fall from grace felt anti-dramatic because it seemed an obvious ruination given his weakness as a character in EMPIRE and RETURN. I doubt this was THE LAST JEDI's intention but I can see it being justified in hindsight.
Not sure if pervert or cheesecake expert.

TordelBack

True of the OT, but 3 decades later in TFA the acme of jediliness is exactly how he was reintroduced: the first line of that film is "this will begin to make things right", referring to the mapguffin. Everyone is desperate to find Luke: he will bring balance, he will turn the tide, he is hope personified. So it may not be a shock from the perspective of someone watching him grow from starstruck farm boy to independent thinker, but it's a hell of surprise coming from a living myth.