SUGGESTED FOR MATURE READERS, by Janean Patience, offers a great overview not just of Third World War, New Statesmen, and all the Garth Ennisry and Amnesty which followed, but of the brief period where publishers mistakenly thought comics might be a thing grown ups might buy, in general.
Patience is refreshingly frank about what works and what was absolutely risible, and the depth of the analysis lavished upon John Smith's New Statesmen means this is probably the definitive text on what Patience points out is a strip which is as neglected today as it was at the time of original publication.
This is the best writing on comics I've read since the demise of Douglas Wolk's incredible Dredd Reckoning blog - a Megazine text feature from her would make a refreshing change from creator interviews:
General overview: Crisis Of Identity (https://suggestedformaturereaders.wordpress.com/2013/03/22/crisis-of-identity/)
New Statesmen: In the context of the eighties fad for adult superheroes (https://suggestedformaturereaders.wordpress.com/2012/10/01/a-big-gaudy-picturebook/)
New Statesmen: In the context of post-modernism and team books (https://suggestedformaturereaders.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/a-headful-of-loose-change/)
New Statesmen: Complexity, redundancy and the way the old always strangles the new in comic books (https://suggestedformaturereaders.wordpress.com/2012/10/15/what-its-like-for-real-people/)
I've never hidden my love of New Statesmen in these parts and I know I'm not alone in that. Its nice to see it discussed so fully elsewhere. There's certainly a heck of a lot to chew over here and while some I don't agree with, its great to be made to examine the thoughts I've had about this too long out of print comic again... if tempts me to reach for my collection and read it again as I have many times before.
As said this comic is too long overlooked and Tharg should role it out again for all to see and admire (that's if Tharg has ownership of it... which actually I suspect he might not?)
New Statesmen would be owned by Fleetway, wouldn't it? Rebellion only got ownership of characters and strips that remained part of 2000 AD. (So Rebellion has ownership of Strontium Dog, but not characters from Starlord that didn't transfer—and nothing transferred from Crisis, bar the character Finn.)
As Finn was in Third World War, does Rebellion own TWW or not?
I've no idea, but I doubt it. They'd presumably own the rights to the character, but to the backstories of any full strips that transferred.
I've read more than once before that Fleetway own the rights, but wonder if that's actually the case when it has "2000 A.D. PRESENTS" at the top of the front cover.
QuoteYou returned to (2000ad) to write Helter Skelter – how and why?
Well... A deal had been worked out whereby the rights to Troubled Souls, which I did for Crisis, were available. Rebellion bought them from Fleetway and agreed to return them to me in return for a twelve-episode Dredd strip.
http://viciousimagery.blogspot.co.uk/2007/02/28-days-of-2000-ad-181-garth-ennis-pt.html
Adore New Statesmen. Will get round to reading the linked articles, but, reading back over the post-modern reimagination of superheroes texts, I think that John Smith's work stands up well as a really grounded take on the issue. While I love some of the other stories that played with the superhero idea (Zenith, Miracleman, Watchmen, Marshall Law), New Statesmen stands out as being neither in love with the source material (Zenith, Miracleman), nor determined to bludgeon the reader with the big, all encompassing 'meaning' of the piece (Alan Moore, Pat Mills, I'm looking at you). The New Statesmen characters always felt like they were characters first, rather than pieces for the author to move around to make their grand point.
Wow - great find, thanks for sharing! I've long suspected that talking about Crisis and the strips within may well be more fun than actually reading the comic itself...
New Statesmen is definitely one of the better offerings, but it's so dense!
great find!
I have never read the new statesman - is it worth finding?
Quote from: Skullmo on 15 June, 2015, 02:09:23 PM
I have never read the new statesman - is it worth finding?
Even if you don't like the story, there's uniformly great art by Jim Baikie with fill-ins by no lesser talents than Sean Phillips and Duncan Fegredo. There was a five-issue US-format reprint which seems to be patchily available from eBay:
Issues 1, 2 and 5 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-STATESMEN-Books-1-2-5-1989-from-2000AD-Fleetway-Quality-Edition-/291476331054?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item43dd57da2e)
Issue 3 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NEW-STATESMEN-BOOK-3-2000-AD-FLEETWAY-QUALITY-JOHN-SMITH-GRAPHIC-NOVEL-/141418905326?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item20ed393eee)
Issue 4 (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Statesmen-4-Comic-Book-1989-Fleetway-/391086352908?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5b0e902a0c)
There are a couple of complete sets and a copy of the collected TPB on eBay as well, but they're being sold from the States and want silly amounts of money for the postage.
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: credo on 15 June, 2015, 11:22:18 AM
While I love some of the other stories that played with the superhero idea (Zenith, Miracleman, Watchmen, Marshall Law), New Statesmen stands out as being neither in love with the source material (Zenith, Miracleman), nor determined to bludgeon the reader with the big, all encompassing 'meaning' of the piece (Alan Moore, Pat Mills, I'm looking at you).
That's just about every superhero comic I've ever liked in that list...
If you discount Batman 'coz he's not superhuman then I'm pretty sure that's all the ones I like :-)
Quote from: sheridan on 15 June, 2015, 09:26:38 PM
Quote from: credo on 15 June, 2015, 11:22:18 AM
While I love some of the other stories that played with the superhero idea (Zenith, Miracleman, Watchmen, Marshall Law), New Statesmen stands out as being neither in love with the source material (Zenith, Miracleman), nor determined to bludgeon the reader with the big, all encompassing 'meaning' of the piece (Alan Moore, Pat Mills, I'm looking at you).
That's just about every superhero comic I've ever liked in that list...
If you discount Batman 'coz he's not superhuman then I'm pretty sure that's all the ones I like :-)
That's very much the case for me too. Supremely anti-cape (and I've no love for Batman either). I'd add Paradax too, even if it's really just a bit of fun.
I could list all the superheroics comics I love on two hands. New Statesmen is one of these. Such a fantastic series and really hope it get's a second resurface with a new TPB (though i'll stick with my Fleetway volumes).
On the flip-side I adore many, many fine superhero tales AND still think New Statesmen is one of the best comics on the subject out there.
I should probably note that I don't dislike superhero tale's as a concept, it's just as good a subject matter as any other subgenre of science fiction, but how the big two tend to deal with their properties* and the oversaturation of the comic market with superheroics does become a little tiresome after a while.
Also, I don't include titles like Concrete as superhero tales despite my first impressions with the series. And New Statesmen treads a fine line between the aforementioned camp and typical superheroics.
*I do have a few Alan Grant and GMozz Batman titles piled up to read and am also curious about Matt Wagners run on the character, but DC as a company hold little appeal.
I think you'll find both me and Colin love New Statesmen with an unhealthy passion, so please amend the thread title at your earliest convenience. It's a real favourite of mine. By far the best thing to appear in Crisis and up there with John's best work. Although he doesn't seem to agree these days (where "these days" = whenever the old chatroom was still in use.)
Probably been discussed at length before (if only there was a way to search the forum) but those articles pick up on a few of the things that make it so enjoyable. The multitude of very different voices and material; the sense of being dropped into the world of story and left to make sense of it for yourself; characters whose sexuality is simply presented without judgement; the bleak ending and the all the loose ends.
Some good reading there, even with some choice bits to disagree on, and I've been picking through a few more on the same blog.
I remember disliking New Statesmen almost as much as I disliked Third World War. I've always thought Crisis was a pretty-much unmitigated disaster. I way preferred Revolver and in Dare it produced what I consider the only stone-cold classic of the short-lived "comics are for adults" boom in the UK.
Still I'd probably re-read New Statesmen if I had the chance, if only because John Smith is someone I respect so I have this niggling feeling it can't really have been as bad as I thought it was. My understanding is Egmont have the rights and are hoarding them, Smaug-like, so any re-print is unlikely for the moment.
Quote from: Jimmy Baker's Assistant on 16 June, 2015, 06:45:36 PM
Still I'd probably re-read New Statesmen if I had the chance, if only because John Smith is someone I respect so I have this niggling feeling it can't really have been as bad as I thought it was. My understanding is Egmont have the rights and are hoarding them, Smaug-like, so any re-print is unlikely for the moment.
Handy eBay links on the previous page...
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: The Cosh on 16 June, 2015, 05:54:48 PM
Probably been discussed at length before (if only there was a way to search the forum) but those articles pick up on a few of the things that make it so enjoyable. The multitude of very different voices and material; the sense of being dropped into the world of story and left to make sense of it for yourself; characters whose sexuality is simply presented without judgement; the bleak ending and the all the loose ends.
Google can do site searches (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="new+statesmen"+site:forums.2000adonline.com)
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 16 June, 2015, 06:55:03 PMHandy eBay links on the previous page...
And the whole thing, too (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Complete-New-Statesman-John-Smith-Jim-Baikie-duncan-Fegredo-Sean-Phillips-/301659445787?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item463c4dda1b). Those US reprints show up quite often, though, so it's easy enough to snag if you've a bit of patience.
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 16 June, 2015, 08:01:21 PM
And the whole thing, too (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/The-Complete-New-Statesman-John-Smith-Jim-Baikie-duncan-Fegredo-Sean-Phillips-/301659445787?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item463c4dda1b). Those US reprints show up quite often, though, so it's easy enough to snag if you've a bit of patience.
Cool. The only complete collected edition that was on when I looked was from the States and they wanted a silly amount of money for postage. (Also possible that my eBay searching abilities are just pants.)
Cheers
Jim
Huh. Interesting stuff. The Crisis/Revolver/Deadline era of comics have completely passed me by - when they were published I was at infant school(!), and the reprints seem few and far between. Is there anything much to look out for besides New Statesman and Dare?*
*I get the impression there probably isn't...
2000ad presents Revolver Presents Expresso.
Now there's the real little comic nobody even mentions anymore.
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 16 June, 2015, 08:06:41 PM
Huh. Interesting stuff. The Crisis/Revolver/Deadline era of comics have completely passed me by - when they were published I was at infant school(!), and the reprints seem few and far between. Is there anything much to look out for besides New Statesman and Dare?*
*I get the impression there probably isn't...
Its not been reprinted, but the only original issues of Crisis I still own are 15 -27, as they have Sticky Fingers, in a story I love with almost the passion I have for New Statesmen... okay I wouldn't have a fist fight with The Cosh to win its affections the way I would with John Smith's work, but its pretty close.
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 16 June, 2015, 08:06:41 PM
Is there anything much to look out for besides New Statesman and Dare?*
*I get the impression there probably isn't...
Well, there's Morrison & Yeowell's sublime, more-than-slightly-surreal 'New Adventures of Hitler" for a start.
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 16 June, 2015, 08:45:20 PM
Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 16 June, 2015, 08:06:41 PM
Is there anything much to look out for besides New Statesman and Dare?*
*I get the impression there probably isn't...
Well, there's Morrison & Yeowell's sublime, more-than-slightly-surreal 'New Adventures of Hitler" for a start.
Cheers
Jim
Oh yeah I forgot I have those issues too. Really must get around to re-reading that one, as I recall very good.
I bloody want to get my mits on New Adventures of Hitler. Looks utterly bizarre.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 16 June, 2015, 08:45:20 PM
Well, there's Morrison & Yeowell's sublime, more-than-slightly-surreal 'New Adventures of Hitler" for a start.
Ah, that's one I have actually read! Found an upload on the 'net some time back. Really enjoyed it - although I had a sneaking suspicion that some of the pages had been uploaded in the wrong order. Then again, it's the sort of story where I suspect it's hard to tell either way!
New Adventures of Hitler was an amusing idea, but it's not much more than a curio, really.
If I had to pick one other strip from that era to recommend, I'd say Rogan Gosh is kind of fun.
Of the stuff that passed me by, I have a hankering to read Troubled Souls. If Ennis has the rights back now, why isn't there a rush to get this back on the shelves?
Quote from: Jimmy Baker's Assistant on 16 June, 2015, 09:55:49 PM
New Adventures of Hitler was an amusing idea, but it's not much more than a curio, really.
I disagree. There's an excellent point at its core, which is: if we allow history to turn Hitler into a demon, into the devil himself, we blind ourselves to the banality of evil. NAoH was mildly controversial at the time for seeming not unsympathetic to the man, but the fact that he WAS a man, a frustrated painter plagued with bowel problems, is fantastically important. If we forget that, we allow ourselves to believe that someone like him could never rise to such heights of power again.
I thought that the [spoiler]sequence where he looks into the bathroom mirror, after shaving his moustache into the now-iconic toothbrush style [/spoiler]is one of the most chilling things you'll read in a comic.
Cheers
Jim
Quote from: Jimmy Baker's Assistant on 16 June, 2015, 09:55:49 PM
I have a hankering to read Troubled Souls. If Ennis has the rights back now, why isn't there a rush to get this back on the shelves?
"Obviously, I have no desire for Troubled Souls ever to see print again"
http://viciousimagery.blogspot.co.uk/2007/02/28-days-of-2000-ad-181-garth-ennis-pt.html
I think a lot of people think of Criris as a failed experiment, something that didn't do what it set out to do.
While it was not the success that McManus wanted it to be, it achieved most of its aims.
It presented stories that adults could read, and not really have any previous comic reading habits.
It was republished in an American Format, too and then collected then in TB's. It lasted 63 issues, nearly four years, for a British comic that's not bad.
Third World War gets neglected a bit, and some of it rightly so, but the first Ezquerra arc and the Hicklenton Ryan stories are superb.
New Statesmen, NAH, Troubled Souls, True Faith, Bible John, all well worth reading. I still always think of Skin as a Crisis story.
Probably one of the most important thing it did was give countless creators their start.
I always felt that Deadline were different sides of the same coin. Both were 'born' out of 2000ad, both trying to do the more adult stories, to different grown up audiences.
Crisis was not one of the best comics, but it was a good attempt at something radically different, and had some great moments.
Egmont own most of Crisis.
If anyone's interested in Crisis, I have the entire run in the loft somewhere. Feel free to make an offer via DM. (They'll be going on classifieds in here at the end of the summer anyway, once I can actually get into said loft, which isn't possible at the mo'.)
I loved CRISIS - Third World War may have been too "on the nose" but much of it was bloody exciting with great Ezquerra art. The Sean Phillips & Fegredo painted art was bloody beautiful. I love john smith but I've always found New Statesmen impenetrable - perhaps his fabled Hicklenton Tyranny Rex would have been awesome. I remember my parents being annoyed at a police chief being openly racist - for a while 2000ad looked a bit safe & toothless. Garth Ennis "true faith" was perhaps the best combination of fun & social commentary - plus SKIN - even if it never actually appeared in Crisis.
Quote from: Big_Dave on 16 June, 2015, 10:29:32 PM
Quote from: Jimmy Baker's Assistant on 16 June, 2015, 09:55:49 PM
I have a hankering to read Troubled Souls. If Ennis has the rights back now, why isn't there a rush to get this back on the shelves?
"Obviously, I have no desire for Troubled Souls ever to see print again"
http://viciousimagery.blogspot.co.uk/2007/02/28-days-of-2000-ad-181-garth-ennis-pt.html (http://viciousimagery.blogspot.co.uk/2007/02/28-days-of-2000-ad-181-garth-ennis-pt.html)
Pity he doesn't say why it's 'obvious', as I regard Troubled Souls as one of his best works (all downhill from there) - especially as he actually thought that Helter Skelter stood up! A typical entry in the dark era of Dredd stories.
I bought the first 50 or so issues from a charity shop about 5 years ago for £20. I need to find them and read them
Quote from: sheridan on 17 June, 2015, 07:37:06 AM
Pity he doesn't say why it's 'obvious', as I regard Troubled Souls as one of his best works
Very few writers would agree that their very first published work is their best, particularly one like this, plucked from the slush pile without the writer even having much (any?) history of small press/fan work. I'm sure, for Garth, it has all his inexperience writ large on every page.
I can completely understand his feelings. Like you, however, I disagree with his opinion, because I like it better than the vast majority of his later work (that I've read, and I'll freely admit to not actively seeking out his work in a good many years).
Cheers
Jim
Ah I see, so Ennis got the rights to Troubled Souls so he could suppress it.
I hate it when people do stuff like that. >:(
Quote from: Jimmy Baker's Assistant on 17 June, 2015, 11:41:52 AM
Ah I see, so Ennis got the rights to Troubled Souls so he could suppress it.
I thought he wanted Troubled Souls/Few Troubles More back so he could re-use some of the characters in something else? (My frequently faulty memory wants to say 'Dicks', but I'm not 100% on that.)
Cheers
Jim
Yup, Dicks have been in a few miniseries.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 17 June, 2015, 11:44:22 AM
Quote from: Jimmy Baker's Assistant on 17 June, 2015, 11:41:52 AM
Ah I see, so Ennis got the rights to Troubled Souls so he could suppress it.
I thought he wanted Troubled Souls/Few Troubles More back so he could re-use some of the characters in something else? (My frequently faulty memory wants to say 'Dicks', but I'm not 100% on that.)
Cheers
Jim
Yeah, it was so that he owned the dicks characters. His two favourite characters
Thread summary;
New Statesmen is underrated (and very good).
Garth Ennis loves Dicks
Quote from: The Cosh on 16 June, 2015, 05:54:48 PM
the sense of being dropped into the world of story and left to make sense of it for yourself;
That right there might very well be the thing I love most about John Smith's work.*
* It's also one of the reasons (along with his sci-fi brilliantness, and ability with horror) that I think he should write for Dr Who.
Quote from: credo on 17 June, 2015, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: The Cosh on 16 June, 2015, 05:54:48 PM
the sense of being dropped into the world of story and left to make sense of it for yourself;
That right there might very well be the thing I love most about John Smith's work.*
* It's also one of the reasons (along with his sci-fi brilliantness, and ability with horror) that I think he should write for Dr Who.
Yeah there's a Titan title or two I'd love him to have a crack at. That said he does seem to be happy working on his own creations?
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 17 June, 2015, 01:26:16 PM
Quote from: credo on 17 June, 2015, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: The Cosh on 16 June, 2015, 05:54:48 PM
the sense of being dropped into the world of story and left to make sense of it for yourself;
That right there might very well be the thing I love most about John Smith's work.*
* It's also one of the reasons (along with his sci-fi brilliantness, and ability with horror) that I think he should write for Dr Who.
Yeah there's a Titan title or two I'd love him to have a crack at. That said he does seem to be happy working on his own creations?
I meant TV Dr Who. In my mind, that might as well be one of his creations but with the Doctor dropped in as things unfold (e.g. insert the Doctor into Cradlegrave, Swimming in Blood or Leatherjack, although this would naturally require some softening of content).
Quote from: credo on 17 June, 2015, 01:50:45 PM
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 17 June, 2015, 01:26:16 PM
Quote from: credo on 17 June, 2015, 01:23:07 PM
Quote from: The Cosh on 16 June, 2015, 05:54:48 PM
the sense of being dropped into the world of story and left to make sense of it for yourself;
That right there might very well be the thing I love most about John Smith's work.*
* It's also one of the reasons (along with his sci-fi brilliantness, and ability with horror) that I think he should write for Dr Who.
Yeah there's a Titan title or two I'd love him to have a crack at. That said he does seem to be happy working on his own creations?
I meant TV Dr Who. In my mind, that might as well be one of his creations but with the Doctor dropped in as things unfold (e.g. insert the Doctor into Cradlegrave, Swimming in Blood or Leatherjack, although this would naturally require some softening of content).
Hey I'll take whatever I can get!
For all the New Statesmen love, I remain surprised how few people seemed to note the fact that it was a story about a disparately-powered superteam forced to fight their most powerful member who's gone mad/evil. What's that? The mad/evil one is called Phoenix, you say? Nothing familiar about that. Nosireebob.
Cheers
Jim
As a believer that John Smith is one of the best comic writers in the industry, I had for years been dying to read New Statesmen. Finally I got them on ebay last year.
Sorry, not my thing. I just thought best buddies Morrison and Moore did the real-world superheroes better. I tried hard to get into it, but just couldn't.
I liked Troubled Souls though; it's not perfect but it's ok. And the sequel, despite its huge change in direction, was enjoyably Viz-like fun. And I preferred them to Preacher, as well as Garth's take on Alcohol Lovers Monthly - sorry, I mean Hellblazer.
EDIT: Oh yeah, and the Hitler one was really good. Hard to believe the writer of such an unusual, hard-edged strip would soon be doing mainstream Superman comics (not that there's anything wrong with them either).
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 17 June, 2015, 04:43:13 PM
As a believer that John Smith is one of the best comic writers in the industry, I had for years been dying to read New Statesmen.
Sorry, not my thing.
Complete reversal of my take on all things JS :)
Revere recently had me skipping a Thrill, and I always read Thrills (and finish books, etc.)
My love for
New Statesmen is based on the memory of the effect on me at publication. One day I will re-read Crisis. I hope
New Statesmen stands up... :o Re-reading even the great stuff is a bit of a pipe dream when so much stuff remains to read for the first time (for "great stuff" see
The Tower King and so many many others).
Quote from: Fungus on 17 June, 2015, 05:08:03 PM
Complete reversal of my take on all things JS :)
Revere recently had me skipping a Thrill, and I always read Thrills (and finish books, etc.)
Whereas for me,
Revere (along with
Firekind,
Killing Time and other JS stuff) was one of the key factors in me sticking with 2000ad through a very mediocre period. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose!
Quote from: JayzusB.Christ on 18 June, 2015, 05:06:09 PM
Quote from: Fungus on 17 June, 2015, 05:08:03 PM
Complete reversal of my take on all things JS :)
Revere recently had me skipping a Thrill, and I always read Thrills (and finish books, etc.)
Whereas for me, Revere (along with Firekind, Killing Time and other JS stuff) was one of the key factors in me sticking with 2000ad through a very mediocre period. Different strokes for different folks, I suppose!
Yes, I knew at the time that 2000AD was in creative dire straits, but stories like
Killing Time,
Revere, the final book of
Zenith and a few others kept me going until the comic got good again.
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 16 June, 2015, 10:12:32 PM
I thought that the [spoiler]sequence where he looks into the bathroom mirror, after shaving his moustache into the now-iconic toothbrush style [/spoiler]is one of the most chilling things you'll read in a comic.
As I remember, that was one of the few times the often all-too-literal 'colourization' may have actually enhanced Yeowell's artwork. CUT magazine also owes me £1.50 for a back-issue they didn't send.
Bastards.
I bought crisis the whole way through its entire run. Every issue. There was not one story in it I liked. Ever. Troubled Souls felt to me that it was written by a school kid trying too hard - and if I'd known then that it actually was, then I might have tried my own hand at writing. But I thought everyone who was writing in Crisis were in their thirties or forties and had had to earn their stripes first! Oops. Third World War left me totally cold, and new statesman (as previously pointed out) was almost shamelessly derivative.
I do however recall the new adventures of hitler, and the scene with the moustache. The strip didn't engage me but that one page was chilling.
I sold all my copies of Crisis a few years back, and yet I've always regretted it. I guess despite hating it, I love it a little too. Weird.
On a Garth Ennis note, I found Crossed to be one of the most disturbing and sickening things I've ever read. It was chilling. And whilst I can't say I love it - because it was so fucked up - it was amazing. It made me totally rethink my dislike for all things Ennis.
Dave
Quote from: Proteus4 on 20 June, 2015, 02:18:19 AM
On a Garth Ennis note, I found Crossed to be one of the most disturbing and sickening things I've ever read. It was chilling. And whilst I can't say I love it - because it was so fucked up - it was amazing. It made me totally rethink my dislike for all things Ennis.
Dave
Me too. I used to be at a total loss as to how he was so popular, and indeed why DC commissioned him in the first place (after his pretty dire run on Dredd). But he's come good in the end, fair play to him; and despite Crossed featuring some of the most awful, sickening scenes I've ever seen in any medium, it's a very mature and well-written piece of work.
Why on earth did you buy every issue of a comic you didn't like?
Quote from: Proteus4 on 20 June, 2015, 02:18:19 AM
I bought crisis the whole way through its entire run. Every issue. There was not one story in it I liked. Ever.
I get where you are coming from. I bought every issue. I wanted to like it. It just seemed rather... flat. Looked great though.
This damn forum- always making me covet things I don't have!
New Statesmen was discussed previously, and I had been meaning to get hold of it, but never got around to procuring copies.
This latest discussion has spurred my interest once again, but I had to opt for one of the aforementioned international sellers to ensure I got copies in good enough nick.
I've just completed a deal with a very nice American Ebayer- $30 shipping, but only $10 for pristine copies of the Fleetway reprints of issues 1-5, and she also threw in 'Sebastian O' 1-3 and 'Kid Eternity' 1-3 (both of those series have also been on my fetch-list for years).
So, worked out at about €35 all in- really looking forward to getting this delivery.
Ah, crap. Wish I'd known - I would have sent you my copies for nowt except post and packaging. Would have to dig them out first. If anyone else wants them, just PM me
PS I'm not quite sure where they are and can't remember what condition they're in so hopefully I won't disappoint whoever wants them
No probs Jayzus, thanks anyway.
Guess I should have checked with you generous lot first!
Not a bother - I suppose I couldn't have offered Sebastian O and Kid-Eternity as extras so you've done alright. Actually they're two comics I've never read either - any use?
I wouldget 3rd World War if it got released anthology style
A very general overview marking the anniversary of the launch, but David Moloney makes the interesting observation that the organisation to which Eve, Paul, Trish, Gary and Ivan were conscripted - Market Force - shares its name with IPC/Maxwell's in-house distribution arm.
Might be a coincidence*, but I'm sure those creating the comic had a few run-ins with the organisation charged with pushing it on retailers - especially when they discovered the superhero comic they were promised had become Socialist Worker.**
CAN YOU HANDLE IT?
http://www.greatnewsforallreaders.com/blog/2016/9/17/on-this-day-17-september-1988-crisis
* The name is, of course, a play on the market forces doctrine so voguish among the Monetarist school of economics that dominated the eighties, provided the ideological underpinning to Thatcherism, and rationalised the natural inclination of the government to be a bit cunty.
** In his memoir, Mighty One, McManus describes justifying the shift in subject matter on the grounds that environmentalism had politicised the youth. In evidence, Mac-1 haughtily informed the assembled suits that Enya was currently number one with a single whose chorus was SAVE THE WHALE, SAVE THE WHALE, SAVE THE WHALE (p261)
On a related note, surely Stevie isn't the only reader who noticed back in 1989 that the first book of Third World War was just a re-write of the original series of A.B.C. Warriors minus the clanking big robots?
It was a bit better than that.
Quote from: O Lucky Stevie! on 15 September, 2017, 07:21:16 AM
On a related note, surely Stevie isn't the only reader who noticed back in 1989 that the first book of Third World War was just a re-write of the original series of A.B.C. Warriors minus the clanking big robots?
Until you pointed it out, I never noticed that Pat Mills sometimes covers the same ground in different comics. I'm now increasingly certain that I'm not imagining that some of his work contains criticism and satire of Western capitalism. I also detect a subtle inference that war may not be good.
PS Professor - more often than not, one of the ensemble cast is a magician.
Quote from: Jimmy Baker's Assistant on 16 June, 2015, 09:55:49 PM
New Adventures of Hitler was an amusing idea, but it's not much more than a curio, really.
If I had to pick one other strip from that era to recommend, I'd say Rogan Gosh is kind of fun.
Of the stuff that passed me by, I have a hankering to read Troubled Souls. If Ennis has the rights back now, why isn't there a rush to get this back on the shelves?
I think I have an old collected edition of Troubles Souls. (I'll dig it out for you)
I have two of the 5 US New Statesmen, I keep meaning to pick up the rest
Didn't Rogan Gosh run in revolver with Dare? (I Have collected editions of both of those too, Dare is probably Morison's best work bar none.)
This thread has just reminded of the series in Crisis called 'Sticky Fingers'. I remember thinking at the time that I wanted to like but just couldn't. I don't think anything really ever happened in it.
Wish someone would reprint the John Smith & Sean Phillips series Straitgate - brilliant, if a tough read.
Surprised Mr Millar hasn't turned Crisis strip Insiders into a film by now...
Quote from: davidbishop on 27 September, 2017, 07:17:38 PM
Surprised Mr Millar hasn't turned Crisis strip Insiders into a film by now...
Every other damn thing he's written barring his shopping lists seems to have been optioned by now...
Well,it was kind of a prototype for Nemesis,and thats apparently in the works.
Doesnt Rebellion own all the strips from Crisis?With Troubled Souls being a special case.
Quote from: malkymac on 27 September, 2017, 01:52:21 PM
This thread has just reminded of the series in Crisis called 'Sticky Fingers'. I remember thinking at the time that I wanted to like but just couldn't. I don't think anything really ever happened in it.
I've mentioned my love of Sticky Fingers earlier in this thread. My love so deep I even started a thread about it many moon ago explaining, explaining in clear simple, mistyped and badly grammered words why its great and shames World War III. Read it and access the empty hole you have left in your life!
http://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=33704.0 (http://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=33704.0)
Rather than start a new thread, I remembered this one, as at the time, I still hadn't read New Statesman.
I started reading Crisis with the 1st copy and as a poor school lad, had to make the decision to spend my money on it and 2000AD, or buy some Deadlines and see what the fuss was there instead, and what a great fuss it was.
I crept back to Crisis on issue 17 to see what I had been missing and was a bit dissappointed to see that The New Statesman had finished, but carried on collecting anyway as there were now 3 stories so all good. Throughout the years I saw adverts for the US versions of New Statesman and again with no more comic money, carried on in ignorance to what happened after that one episode I'd read (and understood very little...)
So I've recently took the plunge, bought Crisis issues: 2-16 and took my time in reading a story that is nearly 30 years old and what a story. I loved John Smith's writing at the time in 2000AD, it was like nothing else and had always wondered what spin he put on the super hero's over at Crisis.
Strangely enough, I managed to read this before I finished the series;
https://suggestedformaturereaders.wordpress.com/2012/10/01/a-big-gaudy-picturebook/
...a great synposis of the series with an eyebrow firmly raised with a wry smile. The other thing that took me back to the Statesman was the death of it's (mainly) artist Jim Baikie.
I loved Jim's work and always thought his scene setting and characterisation were superlative with attention to simple everyday things that seemed to give the stories gravitas and a depth through his art. He could tell a story with little words in a few panels, which fired my imagination, wondering of how it all interconnected and the stories untold that we only caught a glimpse of in his amazing eye for detail.
Smith's script is different to what I was expecting. Sure it's hard to follow in places, but it had little of the bizzare madness that he was able to scribe so well back in 2000AD. There was a set of strong story lines that dripped with political statements and criss-crossed leading to a singular showdown, that I have to say I didn't see coming. Although there was some classic Smith unconventional narrative and wierdness, the storylines that we were invited into had a maturity and depth to match the artwork.
There are too many plot lines and characters to dive into here, you have all complimented the big gaudy picture book, but safe to say that I'll be reading it all again in a year or so and as with many of my favourite Smith stories, I'll enjoy understanding and finding those plot threads that finally link up, such is the joy of discovery in these comics...
Cheers
Si