A Friday Prog. Bar post-Christmas issues showing up early, I think that's a first. Not had a proper read yet, but lovely to see a little Edmund Bagwell tribute on he Nerve Centre page, and Brendan McCarthy is back on Dredd! \o/
Oh, and it's the last part of Fall of Deadworld. Boo, hiss, and all that. (But it will return. Oh yessssss.)
:'( :'( :'( What, weeks without Dead World. Z
Who's provided the cover? I'm guessing it's either Defoe or Deadworld from the title of this thread?
Paul Davidson according to the 2000AD tweet-droid
Paul's signature is just above shoulder of lower zombie :)
Quote from: sheridan on 26 May, 2017, 03:50:11 PM
Who's provided the cover? I'm guessing it's either Defoe or Deadworld from the title of this thread?
Defoe cover this time around. :)
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r182/Caliban_photos/2033_zpsqvdzdkav.jpg)
Ha! That reminds me of Klarion the Witch Boy
Quote from: Eamonn Clarke on 27 May, 2017, 08:10:13 AM
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r182/Caliban_photos/2033_zpsqvdzdkav.jpg)
Great cover - really like Paul Davidson's stylised work - bold and powerfull layouts. Loving the green 2000ad logo too - if only it were bigger ;)
Its normally a good sign when the Prog threads are very quiet. It tends to mean that the comics are in good form and no one can be bothered to pop along simply to heap the same old praise week in, week out.
Give people a below par Prog and they'll kick up a shitstorm round these parts.
So judging by the recent attendance in this neck of the woods we're in rare old form and to be fair we are. Just wish people would take more time to come and acknowledge that.
This week we have a curious Dredd. Firstly great to have Mr McCarthy back on board, just glorious and I've been enjoying Eglington's Dredd's of late so you'd think this would be a winner. Strangely though something wasn't quite right. It was a fine opener and I'm looking forward to seeing more but possibly this felt a little stretched. As if the story idea didn't quite fit neatly into two, or three parts (whatever) and therefore some had to be padded. Nothing bad at all, in fact I really rather enjoyed the set up we're served, just felt it could have been leaner?
Defoe... is losing me ... it always does I guess, damn I got sucker in by the pretty visuals at the start of the story but found myself wondering whether we'd seen Defoe's [spoiler]family killed [/spoiler]in the strip. I assume so, in a previous story but I simply can't bring myself to pay attention and this week that came crashing home.
Brink once again provides an absolute masterclass in how to move the story along quite superbly with eposition framed so wonderfully that you don't notice what's being done. Another conversation dominates the episode and so much is achieved by doing this. Just brilliant and it also subtly puts me on tender hooks with the least dramatic, very dramatic cliffhanger. Quite supremely executed comics.
Scarlet Traces ain't half bad either, sure its not on Brink levels but the exchange betweeenthingie (sorry I forget his name) and the Sargent from the first episode of this series on 2000ad (I assume if I remember correctly) is quite brilliant. To then be rounded off by the climax is quite something.
Deadworld hs done what Defoe fails to do series after series and utter won me over. This series has been streets ahead of the previous stories and I'm now utterly invested and hope to find time to go back and read what has gone before to see if it was me or it that missed things last time. Can't wait for this to return.
So yeah I know there's a telly show down the pipe in a couple of years and everyone wants to get a name check like want happened with the Dredd film but come on when the Progs this good surely we can all take too minutes to sing its praises?
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 27 May, 2017, 08:56:32 PM
Just brilliant and it also subtly puts me on tender hooks with the least dramatic, very dramatic cliffhanger.
Aargh ... Tenterhooks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenterhook) - that's one of my grammatical bugbears. Why on earth would a hook be tender?
Quote from: Dandontdare on 27 May, 2017, 10:43:06 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 27 May, 2017, 08:56:32 PM
Just brilliant and it also subtly puts me on tender hooks with the least dramatic, very dramatic cliffhanger.
Aargh ... Tenterhooks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenterhook) - that's one of my grammatical bugbears. Why on earth would a hook be tender?
Oh there are ways, trust me (always talc your rubber and rig, kids).
Thats an exceptional cover I must say, Davidson provides his usual high quality!
Quote from: Dandontdare on 27 May, 2017, 10:43:06 PM
Aargh ... Tenterhooks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tenterhook) - that's one of my grammatical bugbears. Why on earth would a hook be tender?
On the scale of grammatical errors, it's one of the more understandable ones. Butchers
tenderise meat and they also hang meat from hooks; putting the two together sounds logical, even though it's wrong.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 27 May, 2017, 08:56:32 PM
This week we have a curious Dredd. [...] just felt it could have been leaner?
You took the words right out of my mouth.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 27 May, 2017, 08:56:32 PM
Defoe... is losing me ...
Probably because there's nothing noteworthy actually happening.
At least Dredd has variety.
Defoe is the same old trudge every time and we've allowed ourselves to be wowed by the new artwork. (Just like Slaine with Simon Davis.) We really should know better. Even before the next Greysuit appears, we can pretty much guess the plot. Pat Mills may be a genius but he gets too easily stuck in a rut plotwise.
At least with Savage we have the gradual transformation from
Invasion! to
Ro-Busters driving an underlying change of scenery...
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 27 May, 2017, 08:56:32 PM
Brink once again provides an absolute masterclass in how to move the story along quite superbly [...] Another conversation dominates the episode and so much is achieved by doing this.
Can't agree less, I'm afraid. The page 2 conversation reflects the worst excesses of American comics. This may well be clever pacing but, if so, it's lost in an episodic format. I'm not saying that we need a
Red Fang-style cliffhanger every week -- but 2000 AD should not be a showcase for selling graphic novels.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 27 May, 2017, 08:56:32 PM
Its normally a good sign when the Prog threads are very quiet. It tends to mean that the comics are in good form and no one can be bothered to pop along simply to heap the same old praise week in, week out.
Give people a below par Prog and they'll kick up a storm round these parts.
So judging by the recent attendance in this neck of the woods we're in rare old form and to be fair we are. Just wish people would take more time to come and acknowledge that.
So yeah I know there's a telly show down the pipe in a couple of years and everyone wants to get a name check like want happened with the Dredd film but come on when the Progs this good surely we can all take too minutes to sing its praises?
Yes that's about right. When I first got Prog thread posting privileges I was dead keen to post.
These days one or two reviews per series seems enough. Only so many times you can give the same review.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 27 May, 2017, 08:56:32 PM
Defoe... is losing me ... it always does I guess, damn I got sucker in by the pretty visuals at the start of the story but found myself wondering whether we'd seen Defoe's [spoiler]family killed [/spoiler]in the strip. I assume so, in a previous story but I simply can't bring myself to pay attention and this week that came crashing home.
Yes this has been shown previously. Don't have the Progs to hand so I can't tell you when , but I definitely remember it.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 27 May, 2017, 08:56:32 PM
Brink with eposition framed so wonderfully that you don't notice what's being done. Another conversation dominates the episode and so much is achieved by doing this.
Sorry Colin, I'm another one who has a polar opinion on Brink. I don't notice what's being done because
NOTHING much
is being done. More chit-chat (and very short lines at that) back and forth is annoying for me.
I don't want to do people like yourself who enjoy it down, there are clearly many who like Dan Abnett and his style of scripts, but I'm not a big fan of this series.
I can't tell you what happened last series and I can't get into this one either. Blah blah blah... GET ON WITH IT!
It makes Pat Mills' stories seem rather action packed! ::)
Oh dear oh dear oh dear, how could so many brilliant people be so wrong about Brink, the single best strip in the line up right now. :|
:P
I'm with Colin and Hawk on this. Not only is Brink the best thing in the Prog right now, it is he best "new" strip of the last few years. Or possibly tied with Jaegir - but way ahead of say Brass Sun.
Quote from: Jacqusie on 28 May, 2017, 05:25:19 PM
Sorry Colin, I'm another one who has a polar opinion on Brink. I don't notice what's being done because NOTHING much is being done. More chit-chat (and very short lines at that) back and forth is annoying for me...
Quote from: A.Cow on 28 May, 2017, 12:06:46 PM
Can't agree less, I'm afraid. The page 2 conversation reflects the worst excesses of American comics...
See this is interesting. I don't normally worry about a back and fore between folk cos I like this and you like that, after all that's one of the great joys of 2000ad, lots of different stuff enjoyed for different reasons and by getting the stuff you as an individual like, you get to try the other stuff, stuff that you otherwise wouldn't.
So no I'm not coming back to try to change minds or prove a point... well I am actually... better to say to not to win an debate. Rather I think this idea that not much is happening kinda, or that the coinversations are Marvel style padding, illustrates my point as to why I love the strip so much. Its telling its story in glorious different ways.
In the last two parts (just 10 pages) we start from a stand off as our heroes are suddenly confronted by a mob of unknowns. The exchange there establishes that they are shipped in slave labour (nice bit of 2000ad social commentary). It establishes quickly the extent of the horror inflicited in these people. Just one panel framed from behind one of the slaves and we have the terrible way they've been treated physically treated. Another to establishing the other ways by talking about food. We establish so much about our lead, she is still the determined cop, even if she has lost the badge. She still is determined and unafraid. She still has compassion and won't stand for injustice. She thinks big picture too. The first of the episodes, 5 pages does all that, starts the detective process and uses the reaction of the 'goodies' to build tension so the climax matters and you feel their anger and you care too... still on 5 pages in of the 10.
The next 5 are subtler, but for that even better. In a four page conversation we a recap, more character development, a lovely exchange, the defensiveness, all the police work, the entire procedural we might be drooling over if it was say Dredd (Wagner does this so well as well), but here its done through a single conversation. It establishes the revulsion again, it moves on the original mystery (the ghost voices) and by the last of just the four pages we have the villians apparently exposed. The very elites who want their mysteries solving and their commercial ventures back on track (a twist still to come is always possible). We have more of that social commentry started last week. It develops its point further as we learn more. Last page we get the glorious build of tension, we know Bridget is going out of her depth to solve this, taking a massive risk. So this is emphasized by the pause to check her gun outside the apparently harmless room she enters, building yet more tension. Yet we see that determination again, faced with a massive corporate power she won't be moved as the injustice she has found gives her courage to stand.
All done with 10 pages, some of which are seen as filler. For me its this subtly, this fresh way of pushing the story with what I see as relentless pace, while still not letting anything feel forced. It feels natural and real, hiding with breathtaking skill how much its driving the plot behind a wonderful character exchange.
I'm not suggesting thats for everyone, of course not 2000ad would be dull if it didn't try things that weren't for everyone. For me however this type of brilliance is just what I want.
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 28 May, 2017, 08:04:02 PM
In a four page conversation we a recap, more character development, a lovely exchange, the defensiveness, all the police work, the entire procedural [...] but here its done through a single conversation.
That's really the key: if this was Wagner, much of the same conversation might've happened against a backdrop of contextual action. I'm just tiring of pages of repetitive head shots that feel like watching tennis.
It's clear that some people here are loving
Brink and that's great. However, for me, I can't shake the feeling that this is the Emperor's New Clothes: the awkward presentation is not high art but actually just plain awkwardness.
Lovely surprise to see McCarthy on Dredd. Superb!
This series of Brink feels very different to the first one. The first one wasn't just nine episodes of people talking, and then some action right at the end.
Quote from: A.Cow on 28 May, 2017, 08:51:31 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 28 May, 2017, 08:04:02 PM
In a four page conversation we a recap, more character development, a lovely exchange, the defensiveness, all the police work, the entire procedural [...] but here its done through a single conversation.
That's really the key: if this was Wagner, much of the same conversation might've happened against a backdrop of contextual action. I'm just tiring of pages of repetitive head shots that feel like watching tennis.
It's clear that some people here are loving Brink and that's great. However, for me, I can't shake the feeling that this is the Emperor's New Clothes: the awkward presentation is not high art but actually just plain awkwardness.
That's pretty much how I see it. There is an element of content over style here and it's not that stylish, contextual or interesting.
The head shots thing made me think back to Hewligans Haircut, where there is a whole page of the same headshots of Him and Scarlet talking crap, but in the Warhol dimension - so it's colourful and funny. It lasts a page, you laugh and move on.
Brink is the poo that won't flush round the U bend, it's still there winking at you despite your greatest efforts...
Pass the bog brush someone... (Maybe that fella in 'True Faith' from Crisis - he'll do...)
Quote from: A.Cow on 28 May, 2017, 08:51:31 PMHowever, for me, I can't shake the feeling that this is the Emperor's New Clothes: the awkward presentation is not high art but actually just plain awkwardness.
I'd say that could be a reasonable reading, except for the fact that it's written by Dan Abnett. He very seldom does awkward.
Although I haven't read this week's yet, I think the strip is all about creating an atmosphere of tension and uncertainty, of mysteries within mysteries. Is is just dodgy mega-corporate exploitation, is it just the psychological effects of humanity living on 'the brink' of extinction, is it just the endless self-medication, is it just groups of quasi-religious nutters... or is it actual dark space gods living in the Sun. The combination of hard SF, Scandi procedural, post-catastrophe extremity and the persistent hints of maybe, just maybe, supernatural/interdimensional evil... gruddamnit, it's
gripping.
Not read a review thread in a bit, a bit taken aback by the lack of love for Brink. I'm loving the claustrophobia, the art and the mystery, is it a space limiting cult or is there 'something else'. For me its well told comics.
The rest are all ticking along nicely except for Deadworld, whoda thunk that this would have made for compelling story telling, we know the end, everyones dead! Brilliant from KekW and Mr Kendall.
Quote from: TordelBack on 29 May, 2017, 12:23:17 AM
I'd say that could be a reasonable reading, except for the fact that it's written by Dan Abnett. [...] I think the strip is all about creating an atmosphere of tension and uncertainty, of mysteries within mysteries. [...] Scandi procedural [...]
That's a fair point. Abnett is clearly deliberate in his style here, which is illuminated by your Scandi comparison.
However, I'm not sure 6-page-chunks with a week's gap between is proving to be the right medium for supporting that kind of thing.
Quote from: Darren Stephens on 28 May, 2017, 08:55:12 PM
Lovely surprise to see McCarthy on Dredd. Superb!
Oh yes, a McCarthy Dredd, everything about this residency has been glorious and long may they continue.
I'm hoping a cover will be next, and for me someone needs to give Brendan McCarthy another script to get his teeth into soon (I've given up hope for more Zaucer o' Zilk) to showcase his brilliance :thumbsup:
Quote from: Jacqusie on 29 May, 2017, 10:57:54 PM
Quote from: Darren Stephens on 28 May, 2017, 08:55:12 PM
Lovely surprise to see McCarthy on Dredd. Superb!
Oh yes, a McCarthy Dredd, everything about this residency has been glorious and long may they continue.
I'm hoping a cover will be next, and for me someone needs to give Brendan McCarthy another script to get his teeth into soon (I've given up hope for more Zaucer o' Zilk) to showcase his brilliance :thumbsup:
A cover IS next :D
While we're discussing covers, my droid-foo was REALLY scuppered this week. When I saw Paul's great Defoe cover, I instantly thought it was King Carlos. The colours, the composition, the Judgement Day-esque reeks, the Angela Digriz-like hair of young Daniel all screamed Carlos to me.
I don't think I can give a higher compliment!
I love Brink. I am however unable to judge each section on its own merits as the concept itself (and the cool info-bubble presentation) has gripped from the first prog it appeared in, and I have lost all ability to see the parts as anything but the whole. I want to know what happened on those habitats that everyone alludes to, whats going on with the 'jupiter incident' (may have the wrong planet there) and why things have gone dark... It's got hard sci-fi, cyberpunk noir and potential mythos. You couldn't tick any more boxes for me even before you delivered this via Culbard and Abnett.
Defoe... I like the idea. I think the Levellers are a forgotten piece of history that deserves far more attention in every shape and form. We certainly skipped right over them ,when covering the civil war in history, subsuming them under the banner of the Roundheads. A story set in this period of time featuring dark magic, apocalyptic events and the undead is a great idea in itself. But whilst I want to see more of Defoe vs the Vizards, taking on the gross jokes of the Pseudo-Heroes (I am not bothered by the lack of subtlety thank you) and to explore the possibility of a motivating force behind the Reeks... I am a little burned out on it all. The characters don't seem to ever be in danger, the zombies appear and disappear at whim, and there's a lot of smugness. I do like the artwork though.
Quote from: Pete Wells on 30 May, 2017, 07:20:52 AM
Quote from: Jacqusie on 29 May, 2017, 10:57:54 PM
Quote from: Darren Stephens on 28 May, 2017, 08:55:12 PM
Lovely surprise to see McCarthy on Dredd. Superb!
Oh yes, a McCarthy Dredd, everything about this residency has been glorious and long may they continue.
I'm hoping a cover will be next, and for me someone needs to give Brendan McCarthy another script to get his teeth into soon (I've given up hope for more Zaucer o' Zilk) to showcase his brilliance :thumbsup:
A cover IS next :D
Great news, I could feel it in my water, hooray! :thumbsup:
Love a McCarthy Dredd! Or a McCarthy anything really...and great to hear they'll be a cover.
Really enjoying Brink, does move quite slowly but I find it very atmospheric. The lurid colours are quite disorientating but in a way that serves the story well. Still liking Scarlett Traces and Deadworld to some extent.
Not that fond of Defoe or indeed this weeks cover...
Cover: OK, very Klarion as mentioned upthread. On the whole I prefer covers by the strip's artist, would love to see a Defoe cover by MacNeil.
Dredd: Always a pleasure to see Brendan McCarthy, in fact the whole story has an 80's prog vibe to it.
Brink: Excellent as ever. I agree that it's harder to evaluate Brink on an episodic basis, but I don't think it suffers from being split into instalments, and I certainly don't think it would only work as a trade paperback. Dan Abnett seems to put a lot of consideration into how instalments end, and I like the fact that each instalment works as a clearly-defined chapter.
Defoe: I won't join the great Pat Mills debate, suffice to say that while I'm enjoying Defoe, I'm glad that not every strip is written this way. But then, that's true of every 20000AD story.
Scarlet Traces: Hey, for the first time, this might just be my favourite story of the prog. That's a really good twist, brilliantly executed.
Deadworld: Five pages not enough! Was hoping for a better (i.e. longer) encounter with Fear. Oh well, looking forward to its return. Does anyone know how many books we should expect before it reaches its conclusion?
Quote from: Pete Wells on 30 May, 2017, 07:25:41 AM
While we're discussing covers, my droid-foo was REALLY scuppered this week. When I saw Paul's great Defoe cover, I instantly thought it was King Carlos. The colours, the composition, the Judgement Day-esque reeks, the Angela Digriz-like hair of young Daniel all screamed Carlos to me.
I don't think I can give a higher compliment!
It's a great cover, maybe my favorite so for of 2017.
It's just as well I keep reading the stories I'm not initially keen on because Brink has grown on me - the last two parts in particular.
Still, not as good as Deadworld which is stunning! Let's hope it's back soon!
Cheers
I have only ever skipped Ostriches.