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Started by Thread Zero, 29 October, 2001, 07:17:37 PM

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Jim_Campbell

Precisely my point, Scojjers ...

It's the "It is true ..." bit that throws the whole line off.

No-one ... let me spell that out for you N-O-O-N-E ... who speaks English as their first language would use those words in that arrangement.

As I _keep_ telling you: read your line aloud and then read Wagner's, if you can't see the difference then you have absolutely no business claiming to know the _first thing_ about writing dialogue.

(Sighs)

Cheers

Jim
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Thread Zero


Shame Wagner's Dredd said something similar.

Similar. Not the same. I took maybe three words out of your original line to make it sound like a line Dredd might actually deliver.

If you spent even 30 seconds studying the way in which Wagner constructs Dredd's dialogue, you'd see the difference.

All right. So you don't think I'm attacking your work, here's two completely hypothetical examples:

1 - "I will have to teach this criminal a lesson!"

2 - "Creep's asking for a beating!"

Can you not see how both lines contain the same basic meaning but example 2 is a) shorter (golden rule in comics scripting!) and b) actually _sounds_ like Dredd?

This ain't rocket science, Scojo - this is nuts 'n' bolts writing. So ... either you don't understand this most basic of principals or you're being deliberately obtuse in order to have an argument.

Which is it?
Jim


I have absoluteley no idea what you are saying.


Thankfully.

scojo who writes words, not analyses them....

Jim_Campbell

> I have absoluteley no idea what you are saying.

Why, don't you speak English? Tell me what you're having trouble understanding and I will explain it _again_ ...

I'm saying that any writer worth their salt chooses each and every word with precision, not only to convey information necessary to advance the plot, but also to convey to the reader mood, atmosphere and character.

If you are honestly saying to me that you cannot see _any_ difference between the two hypothetical lines of dialogue I offered as illustration of this point then you're no more a writer than are the contents of my cats' litter tray.

> scojo who writes words, not analyses them....

Yes, a writer writes words. And then a _good_ writer analyses them, changes them, shows them to someone else for more analysis and then changes them some more.

I'm actually offering you some constructive criticism here. I've sold comic scripts to actual, real publishers and one of things editors seemed to have liked is my dialogue - notwithstanding a propensity to write too much of it. But, hey, that's what editors are for ... ;-)

Cheers

Jim
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Thread Zero

Pay attention, scojo!

Jim said:
' "It is true what they say"? Come _on_, Scojo ...! Where in God's name do you live if people actually talk like that?'

If you had read his post properly, you would have seen he isn't referring to the "the only good simp" line you admit to having pinched from Wagner.

Do yourself a favour and read what people are saying before flying off up the wrong tree, barking!



Can't remember grud being in regular parlance down my pub....


scojo


Jim_Campbell

> Can't remember grud being in regular parlance
> down my pub....

Sigh ... no, that's a common SF convention, widely used in novels and all sorts. Swap an existing term for a 'futuristic' one ...

Besides, 2000AD started out very firmly as a kiddies' comic and ''Drokk' , 'Grud' and 'Stomm' were an easy way to make it look like the characters were swearing without getting the comic banned.

You really are squirming to avoid dealing with the point ...

Cheers

Jim
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Thread Zero

I would answer it if I had a clue what you were on about!

What line is the problem?

scojo

Thread Zero

What line is your problem?

I really dont know.


scojo

Matt

YAWN...this Punch & Judy routine of Scojos is getting really boring now. Can we talk about something else or is everyone going to have to desert the board in search of meaningful topics of conversation?

Jim_Campbell

> What line is the problem?

Read my messages again. I've told you. I've explained it to you. I've done everything except draw you a picture.

I've quoted the line. I've then amended the line - which I assure you _any_ editor would have done - and explained the changed that I've made.

Are you actually _reading_ any of this stuff?

Cheers

Jim
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.


Thread Zero


W. R. Logan

>By the way Logan, tell Jim that Dredd says [backslash]"the only good [backslash]" remark in meg 44 may 1998.

Scojo, if you want me to back up any text you may have taken from a John Wagner script please get your references right! To try and help I looked through Meg #44 and had to wade through 15 Fucking pages of Siku, and I bloody hate Siku artwork and reread the bloody thing 5 times, you really have no idea how much that pissed me off.

Meg #44 (August 1998):
Judge Dredd
Vidspex 1 episode (Meg 3.44) 15 pages
Script: John Wagner, Artist: Siku

You in fact were referring to Meg #41 (May 1998):

Judge Dredd
Sex, Lies and Vidslugs 1 episode (Meg 3.41) 15 pages
Script: John Wagner, Artist: Lee Sullivan, Colour: Alison Kirkpatrick

And the line is:

?They say the only good politician is a good politician.?
?In this case, that might be true.?

However, to compare one line to John Wagner really strikes of an arrogance that is beyond belief.
To be really nerdy that story is 15 pages long and contains 122 speech bubbles of which you say that your one line is the same or nearly the same as that one.
Well if take 1 line out of each Dredd script that he?s written you should be able to come up with your own novel.

You really ?do? not know how much I hated reading 15 pages of Siku!

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

Link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theclassof79" target="_blank">The Class Of '79

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/theclassof79/files/%23%20Logan/class%20of%2079.jpg">

Jim_Campbell

> What line is your problem?

OK - if you _are_ actually interested, here we go ...

Your line:
????????
> Dredd to himself:I think we can determine they
> are Simps!

Yes, I understand that this line conveys the _fact_ that the Simps' stupidity has been made obvious to Dredd, but as a line of _dialogue_ it simply doesn't work.

As I pointed out originally, it's too wordy for Dredd and - even if we aren't considering Dredd's established speech patterns - people don't use "they are", they use a contraction like "they're".

Plus, in any comic strip fewer words = happier editors. The trick is to start with something like your original line and (whilst never, ever forgetting the 'read it aloud' rule) pare it down to the absolute minumum.

Which is how I ended up with:

Dredd (thinks): They're Simps all right!

Giving us the same meaning in a snappier line, one which uses more conventional patterns for spoken English.

Or, to take the other example:

>It is true what they say. The only good simp is a
> dead one.

Here, my problem is with "It is true" - a real person would say "it's true". Dredd, however, tends to use the bare minimum and you can actually prune Dredd's dialogue down further than you might, say, Anderson's dialogue.

Anderson would be more flippant - she'd clap her hand to her forehead and say something like:

"Grud on a greenie! These creeps were too stupid to live!"

Dredd, however, would prod one of the bodies with his foot and growl the tersest of one-liners, which is how I arrived at:

"True what they say - only good simp is a dead one."

Or:

"It's true - only good simp is a dead one."

... Which is even shorter!

As realistic as possible, but as _concise_ as you can humanly get it ...

Cheers

Jim
Stupidly Busy Letterer: Samples. | Blog
Less-Awesome-Artist: Scribbles.

Thread Zero

Jim, r u 4 real!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This guy is arguing over it's and it is!


Wake me up.  I am in a bad dream....

scojo




Thread Zero

Sorry about that one Logan.

Hee hee!

Naff script that was too.

My point was that my line was similar to John's.
Which it is.
So if Jim attacks my line he must surely attack John's.

Which he will not do.

I think the term we are looking for is hypocrisy....

scojo