Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

Send Luke in to blag a sweet deal with the force

[TordelBack]

So why don't the Rebels buy their own Ultra Mega Super Star Destroyers?  Leia's a princess, she's minted.

Princess of an asteroid field! 

Logic can't really be applied to any SW film, but i'd say Rogue One is the biggest offender: why did Vader and Tarkin focus all their efforts on cracking Leia, when every single Rebel captured at Scarif or on the Tantive IV knew where the hidden base was?

[The Legendary Shark]

Star Wars has never really made much sense. I don't watch it for sense, though, I watch it for spectacle.

[Professor Bear]

Princess of an asteroid field! 

The 1% hoard their wealth in tax havens.

As for Rogue One: there weren't any prisoners from Scarif, they got killed by the Death Star.  Vader done for everyone else.

[jacob g]

every single Rebel captured at Scarif or on the Tantive IV knew where the hidden base was?

It's hard to catch rebels on Scarif when whole complex was destroyed by Death Star.

[shaolin_monkey]

Interestingly, I recall a whole episode in one of the classic Star Wars comics, where Vader and Leia bump into each on a neutral planet negotiating with a dealer to build more spacecraft - TIEs and X-Wings respectively. So the whole arms trade thing has been covered in an off-shoot (probably non-canon) of the original trilogy.

If I recall, weapons were not permitted on this planet, but Leia had a weapon hidden in her diplomatic pouch. Not that it's relevant at all.

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

I would've loved a scene of Snoke on the phone to the insurers after the dreadnought got blown up. Driver error my arse you Bothan slags

Interestingly, I recall a whole episode in one of the classic Star Wars comics, where Vader and Leia bump into each on a neutral planet negotiating with a dealer to build more spacecraft - TIEs and X-Wings respectively. So the whole arms trade thing has been covered in an off-shoot (probably non-canon) of the original trilogy.

That's just jogged my memory, when I was a kid I had a star wars encyclopedia type book that talked about a company that made ships for the Empire, pretty sure they were taken over by the Empire completely though, they didn't remain an independent entity. I think this book claimed that they also designed the X-Wing, and rebel sympathisers in the company smuggled out the plans to the rebels before the Empire got their hands on them. All non-canon I'm sure, especially with the Disney purge.

[radiator]

Star Wars has never really made much sense. I don't watch it for sense, though, I watch it for spectacle.

It hasn't 'made sense' in the sense that it's a fantasy story and has fantastical elements, but aside from a couple of much-discussed plot wrinkles or contrivances (the fact that the timeline of events during ESB doesn't really stack up, the Luke/Leia connection being clearly made up on the fly etc etc) and ignoring retroactive plot holes introduced by the prequels, I kinda dispute this revisionist notion that the original trilogy is somehow nonsensical or full of plot holes. And to dismiss them as merely 'spectacle' is to miss the point of what has made them so special and enduring, imo. Lots of films offer spectacle.

[Professor Bear]

Also, if you're not supposed to think about films after you watch them, where does that leave movies like 2001, Memento, or The Shining?  Is it that you're only supposed to think about certain films after you've watched them?
If so, is there some kind of database online where I can check if I'm allowed to ask questions about a film I've just watched?  Or is there a note at the start or end of films that I should look out for in future so I know I should just sit there and let the film wash over me like urine across the face of one of Little Richard's hookers?

[TordelBack]

every single Rebel captured at Scarif or on the Tantive IV knew where the hidden base was?

It's hard to catch rebels on Scarif when whole complex was destroyed by Death Star.

AT Scarif, not on it.  There were more than a few Rebels in orbit.  Including the crew of the Profundity and anyone else who survived the shield-gate battle.    And the crew of the Tantive IV, who we saw being captured in large numbers in ANH, and which was docked with the Profundity, which came directly from Yavin, as did Blue and Red squadrons. 

Rogue One establishes that the Yavin IV base was no kind of a secret.  Which makes a nonsense of ANH in a way which lightspeed ramming manoeuvres can only dream of.

[TordelBack]

Also, if you're not supposed to think about films after you watch them, where does that leave movies like 2001, Memento, or The Shining?  Is it that you're only supposed to think about certain films after you've watched them?
If so, is there some kind of database online where I can check if I'm allowed to ask questions about a film I've just watched?  Or is there a note at the start or end of films that I should look out for in future so I know I should just sit there and let the film wash over me like urine across the face of one of Little Richard's hookers?

'Course you're supposed to think about films.  An indeed be disappointed in them (Ask me about Revenge of the Shit!).

But while I've spent countless hours worrying away at SW details, it doesn't really prevent my enjoyment of them: otherwise I'd have given up when Han and Luke still had their boots on under that Stormtrooper armour.

[TordelBack]

Triple post:  I suppose what I'm dancing around is a suspicion that all this (justifiable) jumping on plot holes is an ex post facto reaction to disliking the movie.  When you like a movie, you jump over the holes - or at least have fun jumping int0 them.  Any of which is fine.

[Professor Bear]

Star Trek 5 and Batman and Robin are a couple of my favorite movies and I like this idea that I have no criticisms of them, but it is sadly not the case.  I have shit on loads of films I liked, just as I've played devil's advocate for films I hated.
Keeping it Star Warsy, the Prequels now come somewhere between these two states.

[TordelBack]

Surely. And I didn't mean to suggest that I (or anyone) don't have piles of criticisms of films I (or they) enjoy, and still enjoy them. Quite the reverse. Big fan of STV:TFF here too, even though much of the second act is rubbish.

I just suspect that things like (for example) modified freighters flying through the superstructure of a superweapon more easily than agile starlfighters seem to bother people less than the same freighters flying through a twisty mine more easily than agile starfighters, and I suspect there may be an underlying reason and that reason may not be the application of objective logic.

[dyl]

I think that there are different types of plot hole though, yes some films can be taken apart after the fact and shown to have plot holes, like Raiders and the way that Indy makes almost no difference to the outcome of the film. This doesn't matter to the film though as you're not aware of it. The stuff I have a problem with in a lot of modern films is that the plot holes/ lack of internal logic are glaringly obvious while you're watching the film. I'll often be thinking eh? Why are they doing that and there'll usually be some clunky explanation trotted out by the characters.