Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi

[radiator]

(deleted double post)

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

I think it's a pretty common misconception that works of fiction are planned out far in advance, when the majority of writers are just winging it and making it all up as they go. Even the creators of things that often seem meticulously mapped out in advance (Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, the original Star Wars trilogy) usually have only a vague idea of the direction of the overall story and are just furiously laying down train tracks as they go. Making it seem like it was all part of a wider plan is the real skill.

You're right that I'm sure brilliant story tellers like George RR Martin still change their minds about the direction of a character or event, even 7 books in or whatever it is now, but I'm not sure theres even a cursory overarching path to follow in the current Star Wars story, with Rhian Johnsons approved authorial power to subvert in TLJ.

Theres pros and cons, writing on the fly might bear more suprises, but then maybe there'd be more to look forward to in the next one if the story had been planned a bit more as the second film in a trilogy.

Lost is a good example of a show that really was just made up as it went, with no thought to where it was going, how the world really worked or how it should end. It was often unpredictable and amazing, but could also feel rudderless and messy, and that ending, my god.

[TordelBack]

Lost is a good example of a show that really was just made up as it went, with no thought to where it was going, how the world really worked or how it should end. It was often unpredictable and amazing, but could also feel rudderless and messy, and that ending, my god.

Remind me again, who's responsible for the end of the current SW trilogy...?

Im not averse to writers letting characters or a story take them where they will, as long as what happens works with what's gone before.  It worked for TESB, and it (mostly) worked for RotJ, critical plot points of both being pulled from the air.

This is what hacks me off so much about Revenge of the Sith: far from making it up as he goes along, it's as if Lucas suddenly gives up and just moves all the pieces into their starting positions in Star Wars, without paying any attention to what little has been established about those events in the OT, and very little to what has supposedly led to that point in the Prequels. 

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

Remind me again, who's responsible for the end of the current SW trilogy...?

I dont envy him either, its an unusually hot potato being thrown his way.

[Professor Bear]

Remind me again, who's responsible for the end of the current SW trilogy...?

Point of order, M'lud - the producers have already said that Finn and Ray's stories won't be concluded in Episode 9.

[TordelBack]

Remind me again, who's responsible for the end of the current SW trilogy...?

Point of order, M'lud - the producers have already said that Finn and Ray's stories won't be concluded in Episode 9.

Is that producers with a capital 'P'?

Didn't know that, but pleased to hear it!

[The Legendary Shark]

When I came out of the cinema, having watched this, I thought, "I quite enjoyed that."

Now, after reading the learned discussions on this thread, I have no idea whether I enjoyed it or not...

[Colin YNWA]

Remind me again, who's responsible for the end of the current SW trilogy...?

Point of order, M'lud - the producers have already said that Finn(ey) and Ray's stories won't be concluded in Episode 9.

What Sinister Dexter are in Star Wars now... I missed that...

[JOE SOAP]

Lost is a good example of a show that really was just made up as it went, with no thought to where it was going, how the world really worked or how it should end. It was often unpredictable and amazing, but could also feel rudderless and messy, and that ending, my god.

That's the case with just about every longform TV show that's not an adaptation. The creator of Breaking Bad has talked about purposely writing the show into corners so they would need to work harder to make it work.

[radiator]

ou're right that I'm sure brilliant story tellers like George RR Martin still change their minds about the direction of a character or event, even 7 books in or whatever it is now

It's fascinating to read Martin's original outline of the plot of what became 'A Song of Ice and Fire' (when it was being pitched as an 'epic trilogy', and see just how much it took on a life of it's own once he began writing it.

[radiator]

Speaking of 'making it up as they go', I don't think Vader was originally supposed to be Luke's father, and Leia certainly wasn't originally supposed to be his sister.

[GrudgeJohnDeed]

That's the case with just about every longform TV show that's not an adaptation.

Yeah I take your point in that they're mostly all written a season at a time not least of all because stuff gets cancelled, and it can work great with good writing like in Breaking Bad even when writers are testing themselves. Lost is a good example of a series doing it exceedingly recklessly and showcasing some of the extreme boons and pitfalls of that in the process.

Although it's worth saying as well whilst we're talking about Breaking Bad, that you will get a better chance of consistency - and I'm sure also behind-the-scenes thoughts about long-term arcs and potential endgames occurring - with the same artistically-invested top brass writing and firmly steering during its entire run. By contrast handing it off to different, removed writers every few hours of tv, with authorisation to make drastic changes and subvert expectations would have been.. interesting!

Personally I'd have wanted to approach writing a trilogy as one thing seeing as it has a continuous arc, like writing a season of a tv show or a book. Of course stuff could be added as you go, if a cool wrinkle or revelation occurs to you that enhances the story, but I would want a strong framework. I wonder if it did have a framework, and fan reaction to ep 7 made Disney want to tear it up?

[von Boom]

When I came out of the cinema, having watched this, I thought, "I quite enjoyed that."

Now, after reading the learned discussions on this thread, I have no idea whether I enjoyed it or not...

Then the internet is working properly.

[TordelBack]

I foolishly took a gander at the comments  under some of the Solo movie Lego set reveals... Sweet Moofmilkin' Jabba! I know SW fandom has always had a large toxic element (which I is why I do all my commenting here rather than 'there', as I once did), but post-Last Jedi  it looks like fecking GamerGate over there now. 

And this isn't the sensible criticism and disappointed folk we've had on this thread, no indeed not. 

All the modern rhetorical suspects are there: creating narratives by repeatedly using buzzwords (the Last Jedi was a 'fiasco', a 'flop', Disney's 'ethnic cleansing' of our heroes, Luke has been turned into a 'child killer' [must have missed that scene] etc. etc); endless reference to silent majorities and appeals to take the red pill and leave the herd mentality; liberal conspiracies and [yes] even white slavery.  And my personal favourite: Lucas (who has been the whipping boy for 90% of SW fandom for the last 20 years) is now apparently the one true saviour of Star Wars (a position I can get behind, but feck me the hypocrisy...!). 

Is this whole online world just a perpetual tyre-fire now?

[IndigoPrime]

Is this whole online world just a perpetual tyre-fire now?

Mostly, yes, which is why one of my resolutions this year has been to dial back on a lot of social network and internet activity. My mental health was starting to suffer with the ongoing slew of toxic shit. It's too much. Fortunately, this place is for the most part a little oasis in a sea of sewerage.