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The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread

Started by Colin YNWA, 22 May, 2016, 02:30:29 PM

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Colin YNWA

Quote from: Greg M. on 28 August, 2018, 09:13:55 PM
Like Canned Heat and Tracer, Burning Man is a leftover from the aborted Earthside 8 comic. It's a shame nothing more came of it.

OH yes that's right, that's ringin' bells now. Thanks Greg it does explain why there are so many of these dotted around at the moment!

Colin YNWA

Oh wow was just about to start yacking about stuff 1994 and I realised I'd not reviewed 1993

Mind in part that's cos I think I've said two key things already. Those being...

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 27 August, 2018, 09:14:52 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 27 August, 2018, 05:09:50 AM
... What's great about 2000AD is that there's quality to be had in all the strips (even when they're in some way sub par), you can probably guarantee that what you disliked was thought of fondly by some other readers and, most importantly, there was always something amazing going on.

Yeah I pretty much hold to this. I mean there are a few strips that book the trend but overall they tend to be the ones that commit that cardial 2000ad sin being dull and unmemorable. For just about ever strip I struggle with and mention here someone will find some reason to enjoy it, or often outright love it.

Its one of the joys of 2000ad and 2000ad fandom we're a diverse bunch!

Quote from: Funt Solo on 27 August, 2018, 05:09:50 AM
1993 was a tricky year but I found Flesh: The Legend of Shamana interesting.  Then we got Firekind, Armoured Gideon, Slaughterbowl, Tyranny Rex and Canon Fodder.

I'll save this quote for then I get to the end of the year...

And
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 28 August, 2018, 09:17:36 PM
Anyway the end of 1993 says much the time we are in. Its trying really hard to find its place and at moments its youthful rigour and pretensions shine through as vital genius... but then like all teenagers at other times it can be a bit of a daft cock!

And okay I only really said one of these and Funt Solo set me up with the other

Since I'm in a quotery mood (yes, yes that is a word) I said back in 1992 (review of)

QuoteAnyway 1993 beckons and this one is going to be very interesting. 1992 has brought us the green shots of recovery... 1993  will bring 2000ad's enfant terribles to test how robust they are... mind one of them John Smith will be coming into a bit of a purple (prose) patch, so I'm genuinely excited to see how the balances falls to this re-readers eyes.

And these three perfectly sum 1993 up. Its a damned interesting year with 2000ad really throwing itself to extremes.

Funnily enough I thought it would be the 'Summer Offensive' that was the main talking point this year, but really its just a bit of a side show, a blip in a otherwise highly entertaining year. Oh its been far from good, but while we're miles below the consistent quality of the early to mid 80s we're miles ahead of the lows a couple of years ago.

The best thing about 1993 is I bet if you stuck 50 life long 2000ad fans in a room and asked them which strips where good and which strips sucked in 1993 you'd get 50 very different answer... and a bit of a spat, until we all made up and huddled down at the bar to kiss and make up. After all just like villagers in some northern village in Gaul (sorry reading a lot of Asterix at the moment, its on my mind) we like nothing more than a good out ruck. Deep down however we love each other.

1993 really emphasizes that. Some of the stories are just brilliant, some of them are just terrible and you've seen my list here so I'll not harp on,  you've seen chunks of other folks likes and dislikes too. I disagree with 30% of what Funt Solo says above and it speaks to 2000ad that I do so while still agreeing to 70%. And 1993 is probably the finest example of the extremes 2000ad is capable of and that's why I suspect I've whittered more about this year than any other.

Its never been boring. At times its offered stuff that's as bad as anything that's been in the Prog. At other times its offered stuff that's as good as anything that's been in the Prog. Most importantly the middle ground is getting thinner and its never been boring, so ya know what I call this a win, even a big win.

As I recall I might be able to cut and paste this for my 1994 review. Lets rip into each other, then make up and hold hands as we find out in 1994.

PsychoGoatee


AlexF

I do seem to have a bit of an obsession with early 90s 2000AD, and I've never entirely understood why. Obviously part of it is that this is when I became a full-fledged read the Prog every week fan, primed by Tharg's hype machine to assume ever upcoming thrill was going to be the greatest thing ever.

But I think you've hit the nail on the head with the observation that although fans largely agree this was perhaps the worst of times for 2000AD (1995/1996 might be the last gasp of truly terrible?), there's very little agreement on which strips exactly were the good ones, and which were execrable.

I mean, everyone loves Button Man and Firekind, and everyone hates Mark Millar RoboHunter and Michael Fleisher Rogue Trooper but beyond that it's a toss-up.

Colin YNWA

Fight. Fight. Fight - Prog 871

Fisticuffs dominate three strips in Prog 871. And in these scraps we see so much about this time and the differences between the folks that created them and their view of what makes 2000ad.

Round 1 sees a Mark Millar bout between Joe 'The Judge' Dredd (or at least an approximation there of) and Project 'Made of dead Russians' X in what I always call the "Worst Dredd Story EVEEEERRRRRR".

I can't, just can't let this tosh pass without comment... and when I say comment I mean whining about how awful it is.

This entire story is pointless, craftless (art aside) gash. It lacks any reason to exist, is utterly simple and worthless (art aside). This episode, its final though takes something utterly without merit (art aside) and at least makes you laugh with exasperation. In this fight Dreddy Dreadful stops the unstoppable monster, perviously, blasted, blown up and burnt with no apparent harm and beats him down by pistol whipping him and then punching him (there is a gun shot inbetween these two BUT the story has well established by this point that countless bullets have no impact). Its turns the banal into the ridiculous and then some.

Round 2 in a Millar / Morrison / Williams presentation we have Manchester's hardest man facing off with Britain's hardest from Teeside as Big Dave has a ruck with Ballser.

Now I've talked about Big Dave recently and I certainly don't dislike it and while I've said in the past it has no place in Tharg's organ I'm beginning to see how it might. The trouble is while its funny and the satire well targetted and direct in the way of Viz its a very limited strip and once its said its piece doesn't really have anything new to add what's gone before. And that's a perfect summary of this barney. Its boisterous and fun if really absolutely nothing new at all, even if its trying to be.

Rounnnnnnnnd 3 in a fight that's out of this world brought to you by the one and only Shakey 'Kane' 2000 we have Kim 'The Soul Gun Warrior' West vs. Uri 'Yes that one' Gagarin.

Now this one sees our two combatants fighting on top of a Space Shuttle, breaking through dimensional barriers while trading economic and political tit for tat, with genuine ingenuitity, sharp and purposeful satire and originality that befits the Galaxies Greatest. See this does what 2000ad does best - takes a popular cultural reference - in this case the slugfest - and spins it in a truly fresh and anarchic way.

The fight like the rest of this story is absolutely knockout.

So there we see in three strips doing basically the same thing in one Prog the great diversity we can get in 2000ad. In the same moment the vast diversity in quality we have at this time.

AlexF

Honestly, I get the hate for 'Frankenstein Division', I really do, but I honestly kinda like the basic premise of the story. Goodness knows plenty of writers have gone to the well of 'what happened to the nuked-out remains of East Meg 1', and it's a fertile well.

The hateful thing, as you say, is that final episode, in which Dredd wins through sheer violence. Wagner and Grant would've come up with some clever or at least satisfying way to destroy the monster, even if it was just hitting it with yet more nukes. Or maybe the monster actually being a psychic projection of guilt from Dredd's colleagues (defeated by the relaisation that Dredd himself, doesn't feel guilty at all). I've never understood this passion of Millar's to have heroes winning battles by just punching more and harder. Is it some obsession with that old Spider-Man story where he throws off the heavy weight? Or just an inability to think up a plot-based conflict resolving solution?

TordelBack

Quote from: AlexF on 03 September, 2018, 10:55:49 AM
Honestly, I get the hate for 'Frankenstein Division', I really do, but I honestly kinda like the basic premise of the story.

The whole awful thing kinda hinges on Justice Dept generously repatriating all the Sov Judge corpses from MC-1 after the war (instead of shovelling them into giant burial pits, as they tend to do with their own citizens when Resyk can't handle it).  The TADs surely can't have left much in the way of bodies to work with in East Meg 1.

Dark Jimbo

Quote from: TordelBack on 03 September, 2018, 01:54:13 PM
The whole awful thing kinda hinges on Justice Dept generously repatriating all the Sov Judge corpses from MC-1 after the war (instead of shovelling them into giant burial pits, as they tend to do with their own citizens when Resyk can't handle it).

Not only that, but the Sovs somehow knowing which of the (tens of?) thousands of dead were killed specifically by Dredd himself...!
@jamesfeistdraws

AlexF

OK, fair points on the lack of believable logic there! But the giant man-monster made of stitched together recipients of Dredd's bullets is, for me, a decent stab at a villain concept. Especially as rendered by King Carlos.

But I'm done defending the story, don't worry!

TordelBack

Quote from: AlexF on 04 September, 2018, 10:47:26 AM
But the giant man-monster made of stitched together recipients of Dredd's bullets is, for me, a decent stab at a villain concept. Especially as rendered by King Carlos.

Point and point.

Colin YNWA

QuoteThe best thing about 1993 early 1994 is I bet if you stuck 50 life long 2000ad fans in a room and asked them which strips where good and which strips sucked in 1993  early 1994 you'd get 50 very different answer... and a bit of a spat, until we all made up and huddled down at the bar to kiss and make up

See, see. Do you see what I mean!

Funt Solo

1994 doesn't start well: Frankenstein Division, Big Dave, Soul Gun Warrior, Mother Earth and Revere.  Even the "Tharg's Thrill Archives" on the back covers are promoting some lower echelon series: Universal Soldier, Wire Heads and Trash.

It does pick up, though, with the Journal of Luke Kirby (Sympathy for the Devil) and Tyranny Rex (Deux Ex Machina) being the top tier, Dinosty providing the Marmite and Judge Dredd (The Sugar Beat) and Rogue Trooper (Scavenger of Souls) being the margarine (in a convoluted sandwich metaphor that's making me increasingly hungry). 

Later, The Clown (Behind the Painted Mask) becomes the best thing in the prog.
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Aaron A Aardvark

Quote from: Funt Solo on 05 September, 2018, 12:29:44 AM
Frankenstein Division, Big Dave, Soul Gun Warrior, Mother Earth and Revere.  Even the "Tharg's Thrill Archives" on the back covers are promoting some lower echelon series: Universal Soldier, Wire Heads and Trash.
We're approaching the point when I returned from my Long Walk so right now that's just a collection of random words for me.

Greg M.

Quote from: Funt Solo on 05 September, 2018, 12:29:44 AM
... and Revere.

1994 may not start well, but the presence of Revere, one of the finest stories ever published in the prog, is at least something. Interesting to see how it reads on a week in week out basis - it is spectacularly powerful read as a whole, but it really hits its stride in book 2, once the direction of the series becomes clear.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: Greg M. on 05 September, 2018, 05:58:50 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 05 September, 2018, 12:29:44 AM
... and Revere.

1994 may not start well, but the presence of Revere, one of the finest stories ever published in the prog, is at least something. Interesting to see how it reads on a week in week out basis - it is spectacularly powerful read as a whole, but it really hits its stride in book 2, once the direction of the series becomes clear.

Yeah I shouldn't have let Revere pass without special comment. Its been a great series, particularly the final two books. Simon Harrison is just a brilliant artist and carries a story that is both complex and engaging without missing a beat.

Intersting then to compare it to 'Dinosity' which started in Prog 873 and I'm now four parts into. Clint Langley's art, while now fantastic on the right strip, is just cluttered here and the storytelling is pretty poor. That said I'm not sure its telling much of a story.

Two other stories coming out of the same launch Prog are very weak as well. There's a simply terrible 'Rogue Trooper' and editorial tidying of Michael Fleisher's work under the guise of Falco isn't saving this one.

'Sugar Beat' in Dredd is just a horrible waste of some of Ron Smith's best work in the Prog for a while, it looks just glorious. This story however would be as discussed with Robo-Hunter classic 'Football Crazy' for its casual racism if it was any better. As it is its very poor and pretty dull and hence draws no attention to itself and its rubbish and relentless use of sterotypes. The highlight by part 4 has been the amusing fact that Dredd has been carting his hold all around with him since he landed in Hideoussterotypeville or whatever the place is called. That was pretty funny to be honest. The rest is crap.

So thank Tharg for Luke Kirby and Tyranny Rex then huh. These aren't good times however good those two series are.