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Author Topic: Rebellion To Reprint The Last American  (Read 11397 times)

Fungus

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Re: Rebellion To Reprint The Last American
« Reply #225 on: 15 July, 2017, 11:43:54 pm »
Didn't Marshal Law originally appear via Epic as well?

Sure it did. Light & Darkness War, too I think.
Plus Sienkewicz's Stray Toasters and a few things by the wonderful Ted McKeever.
A terrific imprint.

CalHab

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Re: Rebellion To Reprint The Last American
« Reply #226 on: 16 July, 2017, 08:56:38 am »
And Nightbreed by Wagner, Grant and Baikie.

Tomwe

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Re: Rebellion To Reprint The Last American
« Reply #227 on: 16 July, 2017, 01:46:14 pm »

Alright, sematics aside, it didn't end up a Berger Book like Sandman, Doom Patrol, Swamp Thing. All being made by UK writers poached by DC. Maybe the Creator Owned angle was stronger at Epic at the time.

For fuck's sake. That's not 'semantics'. The publisher you mention didn't EXIST until three years after the book was published.

Sorry, you are of course right. And maybe that's the rub too- no vertigo means no good terms for creator owned books at DC. But Sandman specifically was published with Gaiman's ownership prior to the name Vertigo being used, though it was based on an existing DC character.

All I'm trying to find out is why Mills, Kennedy, McMahon, Wagner & Grant chose Epic for their books. Were they courted or were they trying to break America? Or was it because of the problems with Creator's Rights at 2000AD at the time:

Again, no offence meant.

Tomwe

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Re: Rebellion To Reprint The Last American
« Reply #228 on: 16 July, 2017, 02:30:22 pm »
Didn't Marshal Law originally appear via Epic as well?

Sure it did. Light & Darkness War, too I think.
Plus Sienkewicz's Stray Toasters and a few things by the wonderful Ted McKeever.
A terrific imprint.
So I at least have some of my answer via backmatter in the Titan Comics HC edition of Light & Darkness War - Kennedy & Veitch came together at the introduction of Steven Bisette, and Veitch had been courted by Archie Goodwin.

GordonR

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Re: Rebellion To Reprint The Last American
« Reply #229 on: 21 July, 2017, 04:43:27 pm »

Alright, sematics aside, it didn't end up a Berger Book like Sandman, Doom Patrol, Swamp Thing. All being made by UK writers poached by DC. Maybe the Creator Owned angle was stronger at Epic at the time.

For fuck's sake. That's not 'semantics'. The publisher you mention didn't EXIST until three years after the book was published.

Sorry, you are of course right. And maybe that's the rub too- no vertigo means no good terms for creator owned books at DC. But Sandman specifically was published with Gaiman's ownership prior to the name Vertigo being used, though it was based on an existing DC character.

All I'm trying to find out is why Mills, Kennedy, McMahon, Wagner & Grant chose Epic for their books. Were they courted or were they trying to break America? Or was it because of the problems with Creator's Rights at 2000AD at the time:

Again, no offence meant.

Re: why Epic.

A lot of that generation of 2000AD talent had formed a good relationship with editor Margaret Clark at Marvel.  When she became an editor at Marvel's Epic imprint, they went there with their creator-owned projects.

Clark was originally going to be editor on Toxic - featuring a lot of the same UK names she'd worked with at Epic.  However, she pulled out of the arrangement late in the day, when she decided she didn't want to move to the UK.  Toxic launched more or less without an editor, setting the tone for the disaster it turned out to be.

Paul Moore

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Re: Rebellion To Reprint The Last American
« Reply #230 on: 21 July, 2017, 06:41:30 pm »
I loved Epic at that time, and the old magazine that preceeded it, i only grudgingly moved my interest to vertigo when it folded. All i remember of Toxic was that it show promise but wasnt very cohesive (thatll be the lack of an editor then)
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Frank

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Re: Rebellion To Reprint The Last American
« Reply #231 on: 21 July, 2017, 07:22:37 pm »
I was wondering how it came about, especially at Epic. So many 2000AD artists and writers ended up at Vertigo at the time but this one went 'across the street' ... it didn't end up a Berger Book like Sandman, Doom Patrol, Swamp Thing. All being made by UK writers poached by DC. Maybe the Creator Owned angle was stronger at Epic at the time.

Wagner and Grant wrote Detective Comics * and created Outcasts for DC.

DC flat out rejected their other pitches (The Bogie Man, Bob The Galactic Bum, and Genghis Grimtoad) **, and their work eschews the literary affectations that attracted Karen Berger to other British writers, so maybe Epic just represented the path of least resistance. ***


* Wagner left Grant to write Batman solo when disappointing royalties proved less rewarding than their UK page rate, and Outcasts editor Andy Helfer was so uncommunicative that Cam Kennedy was despatched to New York to ascertain whether DC still wanted the book. The experience inspired the Dredd story The Art Of Kenny Who? (477-479).

** After the difficulty of breaking in, DC created the Batman book Shadow Of The Bat specifically for Grant and Norm Breyfogle. Grant wrote The Demon and Lobo for DC, and reunited with Wagner for Bob The Galactic Bum and DC's short lived Legends Of The Law Judge Dredd title. Wagner gave DC/Paradox/Vertigo a few Batman one-offs, Chain Gang War, The Big Book Of Martyrs, and A History Of Violence.

*** Wagner and Grant were desperate to escape IPC, having fallen out with editorial and management. Presumably, they would have been happy to work both sides of the fence in the US, but the only other Marvel work I can think of them doing is some Punisher (and Spiderman?) one-shots.

Tomwe

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Re: Rebellion To Reprint The Last American
« Reply #232 on: 21 July, 2017, 09:40:04 pm »
Wow thanks to Gordon & Frank for their posts, much appreciated.

Frank

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Re: Rebellion To Reprint The Last American
« Reply #233 on: 21 July, 2017, 10:43:32 pm »
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I copied everything * from David Bishop's epic interview with Alan Grant in Megazines 266-268.

Tom's post got me thinking: if retaining copyright was their main reason for doing the project, I'm not sure the other half of the big two would have been an option.

Does anyone know if DC were letting creators retain copyright in the late eighties? They dangled ownership of Watchmen in front of Moore and Gibbons, then changed their minds.


* ... and forgot Wagner & Grant did Nightbreed for Epic - thanks, Cal-hab. They did Unamerican Gladiators, featuring Lobo and The Outsiders, for DC too.

I, Cosh

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Re: Rebellion To Reprint The Last American
« Reply #234 on: 21 July, 2017, 11:42:59 pm »
Metalzoic.
We never really die.

Frank

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Re: Rebellion To Reprint The Last American
« Reply #235 on: 22 July, 2017, 01:34:05 am »
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Wish it was, but Metalzoic's DC property. On Eamonn's latest Megacity Book Club podcast (Leopard Of Lime Street), Keith Richardson talks about trying (and failing) to convince them to let Rebellion reprint it under license.

JOE SOAP points out that the progs where Metalzoic was reprinted carry disclaimers saying everything's copyright DC.