New Doctor

[sheridan]

Its political correctness gone mad.  We'll not be able to call it the "Christmas special" next.  I hear they're calling it the "winterfest special" this year, so as not to upset the immigrants.

It's Winterval - get your Daily Mail misreporting right!

Replacing the sonic screwdriver with a wooden spoon, cause the screwdriver's a symbol of the patriarchy.  Painting the tardis pink, to make it more inclusive.

The sonic screwdriver already got replaced, by sunglasses (I don't think anybody liked it).

[IndigoPrime]

One little thing I did thought was bit unfair that Jodie was from Chris Chibnall other show Broadchurch, and not let other people a try.

Her interview suggested that while Chibnall said she should audition, the part wasn't hers alone. There was still a "fight" for the role.

I know we've all been doing it, but comparing Ghostbusters to Doctor Who isn't quite appropriate.

It's not the same at all, I agree, but the manner in which people (and by people, I mostly mean middle-aged white men) lost their minds about it has that familiarity that we see so often. (See also: Thor/Captain America changes in Marvel, for example.)

To my mind, the original Ghostbusters is a decent movie, and the follow-up is fairly mediocre. (The original also has some really horrible sexism in it, which people merrily gloss over.) The latest one for me was somewhere between the two. I liked most of the characters, but felt it had too many references to the original. It was breezy and fun, but had a weak and too lengthy last third. But I ended the film wanting to see more; and moreover, I saw loads of photos of little girls 'being' ghostbusters. It's that last thing that really cements things for me.

For the most part – with only a few exceptions – girls have had relatively few role models in fantasy. We see massive movie franchises where women are vastly outnumbered or have to play combination/support roles. Even Harry Potter, laudable as though that series is, had boys outnumbering girls 2:1 in the leads, and heavily elsewhere. And this all comes back to what I've been told as a parent time and time again: girls and women will consume media led by boys and men, and even aspire to 'be' those characters, but the reverse is not true. Again, look at most TV shows and movies, and count the speaking roles. Look at the crowd scenes. As someone noted online – and then got shit for – the new Planet of the Apes movie fails the Bechdel Test to the level it doesn't even have speaking roles of note for any female characters. That's insane in 2017.

That all needs to change. If a female-led Ghostbusters can be a step on that road, great. And if you don't like the film, the original's still on the shelf. A female Doctor? Go for it. I've seen loads of parents of daughters say their kids are overjoyed about this. There's a video doing the rounds on Twitter of someone having filmed their daughter watching the announcement. Her face when that hood goes down and she realises what's happening is a treat. "The new Doctor's a girl! Like me!" Until now, they could aspire to be a companion (which in at least some of the nu-Who run is at least a good thing, rather than screaming eye-candy for dads), but in a series about a time-travelling shape-shifting alien in a box that's bigger on the inside, why not take this extra  leap?

I just hope it works, because otherwise we have the most negative aspect of Ghostbusters again. The response to that has made people cautious about trying the same thing again. I'd hate to have a mayfly woman Doctor, and for the show to never try that in the future.

[Dudley]

The Doctor as an identification figure for geeky/spectrum kids like myself shouldn't be underestimated.  It is hard to think of another character in popular fiction who fulfilled that asexual/non aggressive male persona.

There's a lot of talk about just how important representation is for minorities, so if you wanted to be geeky about it, you could say the Doctor was fulfilling just that for atypical boys.

If you had asked me a while back, I'd have been wary just on that basis. but then you realise there are geeky/spectrum females who haven't even had the luxury of one role model - the fact we can share ours with them is rather wonderful, no?

That is really very well put. 

[sheridan]

As has been said on another thread just recently, compared to vast areas of the internet this forum is the pinnacle of decorum and intelligent debate.  You people are just freaking charming.

Perhaps I should be saying this on the other thread, but part of it is surely that many of us actually meet up with each other in real life (at signings, pub meets, conventions, etc) and so we can't pretend that the people behind the words are just digital signals instead of real people.

[Tjm86]

Can I just check something for a moment.  We do all get that this is the discussion about the casting of a fictional character on what is supposedly a children's television program.  To quote the immortal bard:

"Hey man!  Why can't everybody just, y'know, be friends and everything?"

[Theblazeuk]

Yes TJM

In other news here are a small selection of comments from /R/DoctorWho on reddit:

The main character underwent a fucking sexchange, of course people are pissed off. The doctor has always been a fucking male. This is social justice once again fucking ruining shit. First marvel comics and now this horse shit.
I'm fucking done.

Oh, come on. For nearly 50 years there wasn't even a whisper of it being a possibility. No precedence whatsoever. Then they force the narrative down our throats that it is and that the Doctor could be female to transparently prepare us for this. It's insulting. (A certain type of person is obsessed with things being rammed 'down our throats', don't you find?)

Don't wanna be sexist, but this kind of sucks

What's next, a female Sherlock Holmes? A female James Bond? Or maybe a female Shakespeare? Why not a female King Arthur? A female Robin Hood?
Really, this ain't misogyny, it's nothing against women. It's a traditional character, they should have come up with a female Time Lord to be his ally or something like that.

SJW, SJW, SJW, Pandering, BBC shoving political correctness, government organisation shouldn't be doing this, what is with this women are better than men narrative, SJW, they turned Starbuck into a woman and I didn't watch it and I won't watch this (Fool), etc etc etc.

[Tjm86]

Wow.  Just .... Wow.

Tim Berners-Lee must be turning in his grave at the use his invention is being put to!

[Mardroid]

Don't look at the comments on the Sun Website.

Then again, why would you want too? (I know, I know. Curiosity got the better of me.)

The article itself focussed on the saucy stuff in her previous roles (like that's the main thing she did). Here's a quote:

"But now she is swapping taking off clothes for taking off in The Tardis."  

They have their priorities right at least...

... but then it IS the Sun.

[Theblazeuk]

God knows what its like over on the DM. YouTube comments are of course just as fun:

Utter BBC bollocks.
First the ugly assistant now the woman
Are the BBC ticking boxes here?

NEVER WATCHING THIS SHOW EVER AGAIN


GD SJWs had to go screw up Dr Who. Almost all the whiny lil feminazis and beta males wanting a female Doctor aren't even fans. So to appease the SJW crowd they cast a female and then will cry when Dr Who ratings drop and it will be a FEMALE Doctor that will have killed off the longest sci-fi franchise! No wonder Collin Baker applauded this, he can give up the title as worst Doctor ever!

It's been said in other threads (The guy who decried how Pat Mills was being forced to right lefty stuff...riiight) but it's amazing how people can watch this stuff and enjoy it at all, given the difference between their viewpoint and the actual content of the shows and what it depicts as heroism.

[Tjm86]

Don't look at the comments on the Sun Website.

Then again, why would you want too? (I know, I know. Curiosity got the better of me.)

I think it's the online equivalent of driving past a multi car pile up and rubber necking.

Made the mistake with the Express website the other day.  Still can't get myself clean ....

[Jim_Campbell]

Given that we all seem to be having a perfectly sensible conversation about this, I'm not sure importing frothing misogynist rhetoric from the comments section of other sites is particularly desirable...

[Tjm86]

Aw, come on, .... where's your sense of humour? 

No one ever got hurt playing with hand grenades now did they ....

[IndigoPrime]

Again, this: https://twitter.com/Jenny_Trout/status/886615696062459908

And this: https://twitter.com/myskewedview/status/886624370390708225

And this: https://twitter.com/retroremakes/status/886639699263201280

And so on. (Also: although I quite like Thor, I've rather been enjoying the newer take on the character, albeit in the Panini reprints that are about a year behind. Quite why people are so angry about a woman taking on the mantle when Thor was once a frog, I don't know. And from other Panini stuff, the Marvel movie I most want now is Ms. Marvel. Or a TV series.)

[Mardroid]

I was just thinking the other day, a film* based on the second Ms Marvel would be nice. I picked up the first issues a while back, and they were quite enjoyable. Ticks all the diversity boxes, but is a nice little yarn from the teenage girl POV in its own right.

No doubt a film based on the first Ms Marvel, will probably happen first, although I think they'll go straight to her role as Captain Marvel.

Both are welcome.

*Actually, a series might be even better. Should be a bit lighter and breezy compared to the super gritty Netflix stuff (much as I like it). Aimed at a more family audience.

[Theblazeuk]

Ah that'll be the end of it, but just to demonstrate that the backlash/frothing isn't all a matter of hype. It does exist and it is being put out there. This is an island of sanity and respect amidst a sea of shite.

Edit - I missed the other thread, oh dear.