Day of Chaos 2: a.Covid-19 thread.

[The Legendary Shark]

Here you go Sharkey. Here's an academic pamphlet on the definition of conspiracy theories and theorists.

https://www.climatechangecommunication.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/ConspiracyTheoryHandbook.pdf

I read that - at least, I did if it's the one you posted earlier. I thought it contained a lot of good advice, advice which should be applied to every source. It did, however, imply that anyone who questions "reputable" sources is somehow bound to believe in every conspiracy there is. Still, a useful little book, thanks, SM.

The term 'conspiracy theorist' is, to me, a pejorative term used to describe anyone who doesn't believe an official account either partially or in its entirety. The paragons of example would be David 'Lizard Man' Ike or Alex 'They'll Kill Us All!' Jones. Whilst the information people like this often present is based in reported and even verifiable facts, the conclusions (or theories) they come to based upon them seem, at best, unlikely. I view this end of the spectrum in the same way I viewed Erich von Däniken when I was growing up - interesting, even thought-provoking, but ultimately probably wrong. Like von Däniken, these people turn their efforts into a business - and good luck to them, I say.

At the other end of the spectrum we have people like James 'The Link's In The Show-Notes' Corbett and Jon 'No More Fake News' Rappoport.  The information people like this often present is also based in reported and even verifiable facts, but the conclusions (or theories) they come to based upon them seem, at worst, incomplete - which some freely admit. I view this end of the spectrum in the same way I viewed newspapers when I was growing up - interesting, even thought-provoking, but ultimately probably on the right track. Like old-fashioned newspapers, these people seem to have a general thirst for the truth, whether it agrees with the official account or not - and good luck to them, I say. Most rely on donations to fund their work, so are ultimately businesses too.

Then there are the chattering masses in between - of which I am one - who latch onto 'TRUTH!' with unshakeable faith, or try to make sense of it all, or just go with the flow, or deal with the madness any way they can.

It seems unfair, to me, to lump all these disparate voices and perspectives together under a single, dismissive umbrella. And, technically, a conspiracy theory is just what the words themselves say - a theory to explain an ostensible flaw in an account, which may or may not involve conspirators, a theory meant to be explored and tested, a theory which provides evidence and not, as some believe, proof. Police, insurance companies, and courts investigate conspiracies all the time, working on their theories until they provide credible evidence. Yet we would not call these people "conspiracy theorists," even though it's part of their job.

Then we have the mainstream media and governments. The information people like this often present is also based in reported and even verifiable facts, but the conclusions (or theories) they come to based upon them seem, at worst, political - bending facts to fit agendas. I view this field in the same way I viewed comics when I was growing up - interesting, even thought-provoking, but ultimately probably just entertainment. Like John Wagner, these people seem to have a general thirst for projecting TRUTH! through a lens, bending it to agree with the official agenda - and good luck to them, many say.

This is why I say question everything.

It doesn't mean dismiss everything or disbelieve everything you don't like - that's what religion is for. It doesn't mean attack the opposing view or win the argument - that's what sport is for.

It simply means what it says, question everything - because nothing is entirely as it seems, and anyone who tells you otherwise is either in error or lying.

Question everything I've written, too, of course. I may be wrong about lots of things, I'm just as human and flawed as everyone else. Question Ike and Jones, question Corbett and Rappoport, question the msm, question me, question each other but, ultimately, question yourself as well.


TL;DR

A wise man once said to me, "Listen to everyone. Take what you need and discard the rest."

"Why?" I asked.

He shrugged and said, "Find out."

[shaolin_monkey]

980. This feels so unreal. The worst in all Europe.

[Tjm86]

I'll only offer that I would never presume to tell someone they're wrong to boycott The Sun or Daily Mail.

The only really effective way to avoid the cognitive bias that allows conspiracy theories to flourish is to spend time looking at reportage even from those who would normally make your blood boil.  A healthy dose of scepticism and an open mind are the only defences we have.

Granted it can be painful to listen to the likes of Farage, Yaxley-Lennon or Trump.  It can feel a little insane spending five minutes on the RT site.  You come away from the Express site wondering if you have just been pranked.  Then again it also makes you more critical of the Guardian or the BBC.

[Definitely Not Mister Pops]

There is genuinely "just asking questions" and there is casting undue suspicion and uncertainty and there is a difference between the two. Questions can either interrogate the facts or attempt to deny reality.

Anyway,  two funerals in as many weeks for my next door neighbours. One was the 88 year old matriarch of the household (Lily), nowt to do with covid-19, Lily was just really old. The second was today, her 54 year old son. That was covid-19.

This house had a non-stop flow of visitors and well wishers after Lily's passing. While the community support is admirable, it's also terrifying in the current circumstances.

[shaolin_monkey]

980 deaths recorded today in the U.K.,  the highest in all of Europe, IS NOT THE NUMBER ONE HEADLINE ON THE BBC NEWS WEBSITE.

Instead we have a fluff piece about the health secretary 'working hard' to source PPE!

The BBC has a duty to inform the citizens of the U.K. - failure to do so is dangerous negligence. If it refuses to report this, it is the end of it being a reputable source of information.

[shaolin_monkey]

980 deaths recorded today ...If it refuses to report this, it is the end of it being a reputable source of information.

Quick correction - it is reported, about halfway down the 'Herculean effort' Matt Hancock article.

[Tjm86]

Instead we have a fluff piece about the health secretary 'working hard' to source PPE!

... and the Mail reporting that Hancock has allegedly criticised NHS staff over 'excessive use' of PPE!  This is in the same week that reports have emerged of  threats of disciplinary action against staff who talk to the media.  Leaving aside whistleblower protection, anyone who sends an email to staff along those lines is the one who should face sanctions, not the staff raising concerns about patient welfare.

I don't have a hell of a lot of time or respect for doctors after some of the idiots I've experienced in my past but even so I would still trust them more than some of the HR halfwits and PR specialists that are sucking valuable resources away from the real job of frontline staff.

[Rately]

The numbers just terrify me. The pain and suffering, the families and friends left behind. It is just all so horrendous.

[sheridan]

I'm wondering how long it'll take for the real numbers to come out, if they ever do.  Remember, what gets reported on (however begrudgingly) is only the hospital deaths.  How many self-isolators without people checking in on them via phone, email, skype, etc are even now lying dead in their homes?

This was around the corner from where I used to live (not at the time I was living there, but it does mean I'm familiar with the area).  Under normal circumstances this person lived above a busy shopping centre (straddles the main road, two levels and a multi-storey car park, cinema, etc - it's a big place) and when they died had their TV on and audible from outside the flat.  She lay there dead for two years.  Personally I think there are already hundreds of people in this situation already, and if there aren't, there will be by the time any restrictions are lifted.

[Rately]

I hope that any actual investigation into this absolute shambles really does the job needed. We need people held to account, not slaps on the wrists when such recklessness and incompetence has been allowed to occur.

We knew it was coming. The science didn't change. They adopted a reckless policy. We are still not enforcing a proper lockdown, and every time I leave the house I'm just hoping and praying that I'm lucky enough to avoid this bloody thing.

To watch these chancers and liars on TV try to shift blame to the NHS, Footballers etc. just disgusts me.

The sad thing, as many have already said on the thread, I fully expect after this that it will all be whitewashed, Boris and his ilk will be venerated, and families all across the UK will be left to pick up the pieces and suffer in silence.

[Tjm86]

You can already see the narrative being tested for the post-apocalypse scapegoating.  The big one is the idea that there was an element of 'group think' among scientific advisors that led to a degree of complacency on the part of politicians about the real risks. 

Chris Whitty seems to be the key fall-guy at the moment but there is also a very real sense in which the faceless mob of the civil service is likely to feature prominently in the roster of targets.  Much will be made of the "we are following the science" mantra of the early days despite the inherent ambivalence in that statement.

Let's face it, you've got a better chance of winning the lottery than a proper accounting once this is all done.

[Rately]

You can already see the narrative being tested for the post-apocalypse scapegoating.  The big one is the idea that there was an element of 'group think' among scientific advisors that led to a degree of complacency on the part of politicians about the real risks. 

Chris Whitty seems to be the key fall-guy at the moment but there is also a very real sense in which the faceless mob of the civil service is likely to feature prominently in the roster of targets.  Much will be made of the "we are following the science" mantra of the early days despite the inherent ambivalence in that statement.

Let's face it, you've got a better chance of winning the lottery than a proper accounting once this is all done.

Sad, but true.

I would have hoped that the horror of this situation, and when you see people from all over the world, caring and loving the most vulnerable in our society, falling to a horrendous virus, that the scales would fall from peoples eyes, and the vileness of the likes of The Sun and Murdoch's assorted hate mongering services would finally be seen through, and perhaps our society could take a more positive and sceptical approach to the nonsense that has been force fed to us all.

Then you go on Twitter and see the balloons still harping on about how Brexit needs Brexited, and that the EU are being mean, that it is the fault of everyone except those in charge....

[sintec]

980 deaths recorded today ...If it refuses to report this, it is the end of it being a reputable source of information.

Quick correction - it is reported, about halfway down the 'Herculean effort' Matt Hancock article.

It does feel like the BBC have decided to keep these figures out of the headlines this week. When it was Italy that was topping the figures the death toll there was headline news each day. Now it's hitting closer to home it's fluff pieces about the prime minsters recovery at the top of the billing and the death rate is hidden away where most people aren't going to see it. Feels a lot like an editoral decision to keep the public in the dark and focus their attention elsewhere. Or being less cynical it's an attempt to avoid panic by not telling people how bad the situation really is, which seems misguided to me as it risks people becoming complacent.

[Rately]

The fact they, the BBC, had Stanley Johnson on, and didn't challenge him on his previous, distasteful, ignorant and dangerous comments on Coronavirus is a disgrace.

[sintec]

The fact they, the BBC, had Stanley Johnson on, and didn't challenge him on his previous, distasteful, ignorant and dangerous comments on Coronavirus is a disgrace.

Yeah I heard them quoting him all day yesterday on radio 6 until I eventually lost patience with it. I'm sure the first report quoted Stanley as saying Boris had "taken one for the team" which was particularly rage inducing. They had the good sense to select a different quote for later news reports.