The Complete Zenith

[Spikes]

Yes, a good read that. And nice to see Brendan's art again, for this.

[hippynumber1]

A fascinating read but "... a damp squid"! F'fuck's sake!

[Montynero]

Well researched article, that.

I do find Grant's behavior in this case difficult to understand. The contract for creating Zenith was clear: 'You get paid a page rate, you don't own the rights!' Pretending that wasn't the case a years later seems...strange.

All I'm saying is  - If you aren't happy with the terms of a deal, don't enter into it. And if you're happy to enter into it, don't moan about it later. I'm sure he was grateful for the money at the time and it was a huge stepping stone for him as a writer, unlocking the door to better deals with other companies.

But what do I know. There's probably something I'm missing.

[Dandontdare]

The contract for creating Zenith was clear: 'You get paid a page rate, you don't own the rights!'

I think the point is that there was no contract.

[Richmond Clements]

The contract for creating Zenith was clear: 'You get paid a page rate, you don't own the rights!'

I think the point is that there was no contract.

Yeah, but he would have known that it was common practice with this publisher that this was the case.
I cannot imagine any creator going into this thinking at the time they still retained the rights to the work.

[Jim_Campbell]

I think the point is that there was no contract.

I think Montynero's point* is that 2000AD did not — and never had — offered a creator-owned deal, so the terms of the job, paperwork or no, were abundantly clear when Grant took it.

I don't recall ever being sent a contract for 'The Inspectre'... Kev may have been sent one, in which case it would be theoretically possible to disentangle which bits of it he created, which I created and assert that my parts of the story, at least, belong to me.

But it was a work-for-hire job. I knew that when I took it. I cashed the cheques. If, at any time, I had been unhappy with the work-for-hire terms, I could have walked away from the job.

Cheers

Jim

*Not that he isn't entirely capable of speaking for himself, obviously!

[Montynero]

It's 'missing paperwork' isn't it, Dan?  Anyway, the point I'm making is he knew the terms and pretending otherwise later is silly.

[PreacherCain]

It's 'missing paperwork' isn't it, Dan?  Anyway, the point I'm making is he knew the terms and pretending otherwise later is silly.

My understanding is that Morrison did understand the terms but the burden of proof is on 2000AD/Rebellion. They lost/never had a contract. So Morrison can - for whatever reasons - retroactively lay claim to co-owning the character and having a say where, when and how it is published. The fact that there's no contract to prove anything one way or the other is an opportunity for him to own the character which, I imagine, most creators would be happy to do, particularly those in his current position.

The problem 2000AD has that, if they cop to that, then the field is wide open for everyone else to do the same.

[Montynero]

Yeah, that's a good summary from Preacher Cain. But just because you technically can do something, doesn't make it right. I don't personally approve of that kind of practice, whether it's from a company or an individual.

[IndigoPrime]

I find it all a big underhanded. I'm all for the rights of creators, but, as a writer myself, I know the deals I get into when I make them. I've had huge swathes of my work repurposed into those bloody great 'bookazines' you see in WHSmith, for which I never receive a penny, nor even a free copy. But I knew the terms when I signed up. For several publishers, I've never signed a contact, but I still wouldn't attempt many years later to do what Morrison's doing.

Of course, Morrison has several points in his favour:

- He's hugely successful;
- He no longer needs 2000 AD nor seemingly wants to write for it again;
- His work (regardless of era) remains in much demand.

But the entire thing stinks of loophole. Also, while Moore is again wheeled out in that article to make grumbling noises, it's not like 2000 AD's practices at the time were taking some kind of uniquely anti-writer stance. Sure, some magazines (like Warrior) were better (from the creators'  standpoints) with rights, but 2000 AD's rights retention was—indeed, still is—the default.

I'm certainly interested to see what Sneddon comes up with in part two. I respect her as a writer, and I do hope her friendship with Morrison and overt biases in this particular article don't end up derailing things. There's already more than a whiff of agenda in part one, and some statements that will need some serious backing up, along with, as noted by someone else, the 'publisher' point, which seems a little disingenuous.

Mark Millar and Hilary Robinson [...] Neither of them have worked for the title since, but I don't think that's anything to do with a blacklisting policy. Mark's enormously successful elsewhere, and doesn't need to, and Hilary Robinson's work was - frankly - just awful.

This is certainly the bit I'm interested in. I hope Sneddon doesn't conflate people feeling they can't work for 2000 AD again with people being blacklisted, or even pissing off the editorial team with people being actually blacklisted by a corporation. (As for Robinson, I also liked some of her stuff, notably Medivac 318. Curious, though, that the ownership/rights legal spat happened during McKenzie's tenure, what with 'Sonny Steelgrave', 'Roxilla', etc.)

[Richard]

A contract doesn't have to be in writing with all of the terms written down on a piece of paper. It can be verbal and the terms can be implied as well as express. The standard working practice of an industry or of a particular company can be implied into a contract's terms without being spelled out in full at the time. If 2000AD's normal policy was to pay a fee and keep the rights then that would apply to Grant Morrison and legally bind him whether he signed something or not. He's just trying it on.

Incidentally, he wrote a Zenith one-off around 2000 or 2001, years after the original series finished, so if he thinks he got such a raw deal at the time then why did he come back and work for them again all that time later?

[Jim_Campbell]

A contract doesn't have to be in writing with all of the terms written down on a piece of paper. It can be verbal and the terms can be implied as well as express.

I rather thought UK copyright law expressly places the rights with the creators unless a third party can produce a piece of paper with the creators' signatures assigning rights to the other party.

Cheers

Jim

[Patrick]

Indeed, as I've posted before from the Intellectual Property Office

When you ask or commission another person or organisation to create a copyright work for you, the first legal owner is the person that created the work and not you the commissioner, unless you otherwise agree in writing. However, in some circumstances, for example when copyright is not dealt with in the contract to commission the work, Courts may be willing to find there is an implied licence from the contractor to the commissioner so that the commissioner is able to use the work for the purpose for which it was commissioned. That does not necessarily result in a transfer of ownership. Instead, the company commissioning the work may only get a limited non-exclusive licence. This situation demonstrates the importance of establishing who owns copyright through a contract.

And this is legislation - i.e. written law passed by parliment. As far as I know, if there's a conflict between legislation and established custom and practice, legislation wins.

[Richard]

Thanks, I hadn't realised that copyright law overruled normal contract law.

[Patrick]

Another site I've found, contractsandagreements.co.uk, says that verbal contracts are usually valid, but:

There are certain contracts and agreements that must be made in writing and these will include the sale of property, tenancy agreements, copyright transfer, and contracts for consumer credit.[/blockquote]

If Morrison signed a docket of the sort the Beat article talks about, I think that would probably count as a written contract.