The Complete Zenith

[Patrick]

The main quibble I would have with Laura's pieces is her suggestion that the docket system IPC used to use isn't legally binding. Based on my paralegal experience, it seems like a valid contract to me. For a contract to exist, one party has to make an offer, the other party has to accept that offer, and consideration has to change hands - and in copyright assignment, it must be done in writing. The docket system as described seems to satisfy that. The terms are set out by the publisher on the docket - that's the offer, in writing. The creator signs it - that's acceptance, in writing - and cashes the cheque - that's consideration.

If, as Morrison claims, Rebellion have no paperwork to prove ownership of Zenith, I can think of a few possibilities. One, the docket system was no longer in use when Zenith was commissioned. Two, it was generally in use, but editorial slipped up and didn't issue a docket in this case, like they sometimes didn't issue contracts later on. Three, it was in use and was used in this case, but for whatever reason copies have not been kept. If the third can be established I don't think Morrison has much of a case.

[Recrewt]

Just read the latest and this one seemed to be slightly less contentious than the previous two. 

There is still a lot that can be picked apart from it and for me, it seems she keeps going back to the 'no contract exists' statement as if that makes the whole thing a done deal.  From what little I have seen of contract disputes, the lack of any contract rarely makes things clear-cut.  I also think she dismisses the docket issue too quickly.

I am relatively new to this issue though so I have learnt some stuff that I didn't know before.  Wasn't aware that Rebellion have a contract for Steve Yeowell's rights so it seems Rebellion/Grant are locked forever in an eternal struggle that neither can break free of - kind of like Thor/Loki (yeah, reading a bit of Thor at the moment). 

[Steve Green]

It's the end of Nemesis all over again...

[Hawkmumbler]

I can't wait to hear Laura's opinion on the Nemesis: Deviant Edition!

[Spikes]

Perhaps we could get her to champion the banned Cursed Earth episodes...

[Frank]

Wasn't aware that Rebellion have a contract for Steve Yeowell's rights so it seems Rebellion/Grant are locked forever in an eternal struggle that neither can break free of - kind of like Thor/Loki

I could see the point of the Morrison/Rebellion face-off if this was the USA in 1978 and he was Siegel & Shuster, but Zenith's a property which is worth a few grand to everyone involved. Even if a resulting court case established a legal precedent which saw everyone who had ever created a character for a UK comic publisher having all their rights returned to them, creators would only be another few grand better off and the only two UK companies still putting out comics would be bankrupted.

Coming to some kind of compromise between themselves seems like the best idea for everyone involved.

[matty_ae]

Creators would only be a few grand better off?

The IP is worth loads more than that. Dredd is worth millions in perpetuity. Halo jones. Abc warriors. Strontium dog, rogue.  Cgi will only get cheaper. All these properties will in the end be immortalised in another media whether thats film, gaming or so app based hybrid.

If grant morrison proved the docket signing thing was invalid and it set a precedent for john wagner and alan moore they'd be immeasurably richer. Have i misunderstood your remark?

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

Y'know, the lack of a written contract doesn't always, or automatically, mean there is no contract. You buy shopping - there's no written contract, but there is a contract of sale.

Fleetway demonstrably paid Morrison. (I say demonstrably as I am assuming there are records of payment having been made). Then, Zenith was published. What is not clear is the basis upon which the script was delivered, paid for and turned into a comic. But to say that there is no contract is a teeny bit misleading. It also misses the point.

For a sneaky lawyer, the issue may not even be whether or not there is a valid assignment of contract. What if Morrison DID keep copyright (or didn't assign it)? Then on what basis could the script have been used to maket the comic - keeping in mind that the comic itself is a different copyright from the script alone. Was there a licence? An implicit licence? If so, on what terms?

If Morrison never gave up the copyright in the script, then on what basis could the script actually have been used? It must have been on a licence arrangement. But, then, what were its terms? Did it allow reprinting, or not? To ask it another way: could Morrison have someone else draw Zenith? If yes, then he owns the lot. If no, then why not?

What if he is joint owner? Who with? Fleetway (now Rebellion) because Yowell gave up his art rights? What about McCarthy's input?

What if Rebellion acknowlege that the scripts are (c) to Morrison? (I wonder what the books will say?). What if they don't, but pay 50% of the profits to him?

It's all a bit of a quagmire - but there is a solution and always has been.

The most likely scenario is that a lawyer was asked to give an opinion, and the whole thing was palmed off to a QC. For a few grand, the QC's opinon could give a clear steer on issues, the risks and the viability of a re-print.  Armed with a favourable opinion, it might be sensible to print and be damned.

Speculation on my part. But if I was a sneaky lawyer, I'd tell a client to get an opinion and work from there.

[Jimmy Baker's Assistant]

All this speculation seems to be missing the point that Rebellion have asserted full ownership now, and as things stand, Morrison has not opposed them.

The only important contract is the one I have with Rebellion to deliver me a book, and they had better bloody well honour it!

[Frank]

Creators would only be a few grand better off? The IP is worth loads more than that. Dredd is worth millions in perpetuity. Halo jones. Abc warriors. Strontium dog, rogue.  Cgi will only get cheaper. All these properties will in the end be immortalised in another media whether thats film, gaming or so app based hybrid. If grant morrison proved the docket signing thing was invalid and it set a precedent for john wagner and alan moore they'd be immeasurably richer. Have i misunderstood your remark?

Judging by DNA's remarks regarding how cheaply they were able to procure the film rights for Dredd, I think Wagner, Mills and Ezquerra's three-way split of their newly-won intellectual property rights might run to the purchase of the kind of upmarket saloon car Wagner expressed a fondness for in the 1988 Judge Dredd Annual. None of them are young men.

[matty_ae]

Disney bought Marvel for £4billion

Now i know we're not in the same league but total Dredd rights have got to be worth more than a saloon?

I would have thought half a million at least. The character probably results in 85% of book sales/rights/merchandise/licensing for rebellion.

I realise ive just generated 2 spurious made up stats but care to put a different figure on either?

[Richmond Clements]

Disney bought Marvel for £4billion

Apples. Oranges.

Dredd made (according to Box Office Mojo) $13,414,714.
The Avengers made (same source) $623,357,910

They is no way these properties are comparable.

[matty_ae]

No.

Melon. Grape is more appropriate. They are the same thing just different sizes.

One made 60 times the other.

My valuation was proportionate.

but seriously what value would you put on the characters IP then? Cos if it goes much less there's people on here who could sell their original art and own Dredd! (I know he's not for sale etc. humour me) - in comparison to 4 billion for marvel what is dredd / and /or 2000ad stable worth?

[Richmond Clements]

but seriously what value would you put on the characters IP then?

No idea, but I can't see any businessman (which is what these people are, not fans, businessmen) is going to buy a property that has twice been a disaster at the box office? 

[JOE SOAP]

One made 60 times the other.

Divide 1 billion by 60 then add it to another number that is a combination of your birthday and phone-number. Post the exact amount, in cash, to me- I'll let you know if it's right.