Well, That Raoul Moat chap buggered my hometown

[vzzbux]

The guy was a thug and got what he deserved. If you take some bodies life, shoot your EX and then blind a policeman you get what's coming to you.
At least the tax payer has been saved a lengthy trial/re-trial's with media frenzy followed by a long incarceration.




V

[IAMTHESYSTEM]

I feel sorry for all people involved in this sorry story, except for that Moat bloke. I can't understand how he seems to have become a saint all of a sudden 

To some people fifteen minutes of infamy are as good as fifteen minutes of fame. 

[Peter Wolf]

The guy was a thug and got what he deserved. If you take some bodies life, shoot your EX and then blind a policeman you get what's coming to you.


V

I think that was the attitude of the Police as well.They couldnt have thought that firing Tasers wasnt going to result in the gun going off.

"Fuck his rights-lets waste the bastard !"

Thats the way i see it.At night with poor visibilty and pissing with rain ?

A perfect opportunity.



Thats all well and good you might think but its a very slippery slope because what if it isnt an unconvicted murderer/thug that falls foul of the police next time ??

I disagree with you and not because i have sympathy for Raoul Moat but because i think everyone has the right to a trial rather than be executed because thats the rule of law in a supposedly civilised country plus theres plenty of far worse examples of wasting taxpayers money and besides there are plenty of other criminals that have had a trial in a court of law for far worse crimes.

Lets kill all criminals to save taxpayers money as they deserve it.

Great.

[Tweak72]

While I can see Peter's point of view on the wider implications of how Police should handle situations like this, I feel I should point out that using terms like "extra-Judicial death sentence" would in this case not be appropriate.

Raoul Moat was an unstable person, to shoot three people, one of which was sitting in a car doing his job, would show that he was unstable.
I understand that people do not like the Police. I understand that some Police abuse their authority. But they also do a job that we all feel the benefits of. I have been "saved" by Police and I have been on the receiving end of how they can be when they are doing their job well and when they aren't.

From what I can tell, Raoul Moat wanted a "death by Police". To shoot two people and then shoot a policeman and then publicly threaten the Police force would itself seem to be antagonistic to say the least. And I think involving the Police was an excuse on his part. He has just killed someone and didn't want to have to take responsibility for that.

"Get the Police to kill you and then you don't have to deal with the fact you just blew some ones brains out. Their all Bastards, anyway"

Whether or not the Teaser round was "Approved" is one thing, but what we should conceder here is the fact that a none lethal round was used. This would seem to indicate that the police did not want to kill Raoul Moat. No live round was used by the Police the only one used was from Raoul Moat and was the one that killed him. And he had to be pointing the gun at himself, (unless he used the same bullet that killed JFK).

Were this the USA, for example, the Police would have ended up shooting him dead we wouldn't even bat an eye because that's what happens if you start shooting people and Police. The police will shoot you dead.

Raoul Moat wanted to die there is no question of that. I don't think Raoul Moat so much got what he deserves but he did get what he wanted after what he did.

But he still did it and he did not want to take responsibility for murdering an innocent man, injuring a woman and crippling another man for no reason other than to get the Authorities to kill him. Unstable or not that is the point where any sympathy should stop. This would be the position of any public figure or politician not because their spin doctors have told them to say this (although I have no doubt that this could also be the reason it was said), but because this is considered to be the morally right opinion to have.

And you know what? It is.

[Richmond Clements]

Raoul Moat wanted to die there is no question of that. I don't think Raoul Moat so much got what he deserves but he did get what he wanted after what he did.

And he'd asked for help, it seems, but was ignored.

[Tweak72]

Raoul Moat wanted to die there is no question of that. I don't think Raoul Moat so much got what he deserves but he did get what he wanted after what he did.

And he'd asked for help, it seems, but was ignored.

Mmm, well on that all I can say is asking for help and not getting it is possibly more of an issue then the Police involvement leading up to his death. I have had a hard time myself with trying to get help with emotional issues. As when you go to a doctor all you get is "here's drugs, you might get to see someone in the next two years" any Psychological help such as counselling, I had to pay for to see someone sooner. When I did see someone (12 sessions CBT on the NHS) I then had to get a loan out to go further sessions.

But that is not the fault of the Police and just highlights the lack of help there is available out there.

If he asked for help when he was in prison then that would be need investigation and debate as the point where you ask for help is always the point where you should get it. And being in the care of the state at a point where you should be being rehabilitated and not getting help is a big problem.

Still, its no excuse for killing a man by shooting him in the back of the head though. Or blinding another man for life. Or shooting your ex girlfriend.

[House of Usher]

I think that was the attitude of the Police as well.They couldnt have thought that firing Tasers wasnt going to result in the gun going off.

The way I see it (at night, with poor visibility and pissing down with rain) is that I would have done the same thing. The police have an armed man pointing a gun at himself and not at them. If they taser him, he's not going to get a chance to shoot anyone else. He might kill himself, deliberately or accidentally, but he'll be disarmed. If they don't taser him, he'll probably kill himself anyway, or worse, someone else. It was the best opportunity they had to end the standoff with the greatest likelihood of taking the man alive and without further casualties. The police are wrong far too often, but on this occasion I can't fault their decision.

[Professor Bear]

While it's entirely possible that some of the sympathy is prompted by his being vilified by David Cameron - a man I couldn't bring myself to like less even if he cured cancer and made the NHS dispense free sex and money - I'm happy that the sympathy extended to Moat isn't just coming from the usual Guardian-reading pinko contrarians, but from redtops and regular joes who think that if Moat had got the right help this would never have happened.


http://twitter.com/RaoulMoat1

[Peter Wolf]

The way I see it (at night, with poor visibility and pissing down with rain) is that I would have done the same thing. The police have an armed man pointing a gun at himself and not at them. If they taser him, he's not going to get a chance to shoot anyone else. He might kill himself, deliberately or accidentally, but he'll be disarmed. If they don't taser him, he'll probably kill himself anyway, or worse, someone else. It was the best opportunity they had to end the standoff with the greatest likelihood of taking the man alive and without further casualties. The police are wrong far too often, but on this occasion I can't fault their decision.

It was simply not possible at that point that Raoul Moat could have killed anyone else because he was totally surrounded plus police snipers in various positions because he was armed with a sawn off shotgun which has virtually no range as the buckshot just sprays outwards into the immediate area and the police would have been out of range plus they had shields etc.

It was a no brainer that as soon as he was tasered he would have shot himself because of the reaction to being tasered so there is no possible way that the police could have thought otherwise.

Look at the picture in the Telegraph article i posted earlier.Unless it was a faked picture then the intent of the police or the officer with the taser is there for everyone to see.

It was the best opportunity they had to end the standoff if you can call it that but it was only going to end in death.

As for wether or not Raoul Moat was intent on killing himself that is questionable because if he really wanted to kill himself he had plenty of time to do that but its more like it was an act of desperation and a bluff that went wrong.

Finally though he could have dropped the shotgun after letting the police know his intent was to drop the gun and it could have ended there and then.He still had a choice up until the point that he was tasered because once he was tasered then he no longer had a choice and that is what i am questioning.

I am not arguing with anyone who thinks differently about the situation but  this is my assessment of the situation that is impartial towards Raoul Moat.

I feel I should point out that using terms like "extra-Judicial death sentence" would in this case not be appropriate.

Thats something i was talking about as an aside and it was not related to this case specifically.

[mogzilla]

as i read / saw somewhere he'd just been let out of jail for striking a child and  was a drug dealer...he was NOT a nice sensitive misunderstood person. he was a thug period...

he died, boo hoo. he was not shopping innocently he was on the run after committing murder and attempted murder threatened to kill more people cops or not... wether he was killed by the twitch a taser could  have caused or wether the twat pulled the trigger voluntarily all the better the world is better off without him and i hope they throw the book at those who helped him.

as to the knobs on face book who are hailing him a "legend"  they are a sad reflection on our society where criminal scum get more rights than law abiding joe cit...

    on another note one of my nephews "friends" on xbox live has changed his name to "raoulmoat'sghost" reported you dick...


if he really wants to be remembered let it be as a coward who wanted to go out in a butch and sundance blaze of glory but died on his knees in the rain.

[Peter Wolf]

    on another note one of my nephews "friends" on xbox live has changed his name to "raoulmoat'sghost" reported you dick...

Whats the point in doing that ?

Why stop there ?

Why not report every example of that type of thing on the internet ?

[mogzilla]

    on another note one of my nephews "friends" on xbox live has changed his name to "raoulmoat'sghost" reported you dick...

Whats the point in doing that ?

Why stop there ?

Why not report every example of that type of thing on the internet ?

because i found it offensive as i did when some one had " i have maddie" as their profile motto that's why...

[Peter Wolf]

   on another note one of my nephews "friends" on xbox live has changed his name to "raoulmoat'sghost" reported you dick...

because i found it offensive as i did when some one had " i have maddie" as their profile motto that's why...

Each to their own.

I would have called in an Exorcist myself.

[vzzbux]

Pete. Take 20 pictures of someone yawning and you will find one with him in an evil grimace. The media love that sort of thing and people feed off it. They say a picture can say a thousand words but 50 pictures open volumes.






V

[Judge Olde]

All crime is committed by the living, I'm with Judge Death. As for Moat, I tried to give him some advice on firearms - it went in one ear & ...