prog 2182: So long and geek out

[AlexF]

"Find out whatever The Phoenix did to build a new audience since 2012 and easy - see simple as that successful comic."

I hate to say it but I am not sure the Phoenix is a 'successful' comic, in the sense of 'does each issue make more money than it costs to put together'. My understanding is that the publisher, David Fickling, basically spent A LOT of his fairly vast fortune (a mix of his own family money + success from publishing books) but had enough money to keep it going for a few years. I believe the Phoenix as a publishing concept now DOES indeed make money by printing and selling collections of its strips, and because it has been going for long enough there's a seemingly endless supply of material it can package and reprint.

Of course, in another measure it's a massive success - it's an antohology comic that comes out every week without fail (even now) and is full of quality strips that appeal to its target age group. (My 10-year old daughter loves it; my 10-year old son not so much, but he's an avid Beano reader so both are well catered for!)

But to get that far, it needed serious cash + a publisher who really, really wanted the comic to exist. Not a million miles away from the Rebellion publishing model...

[CalHab]

That makes sense. Even with Rebellion's support it's hard to see how the prog could exist without 2000AD's huge amount of collections. Something no new comic is going to be able to do for quite a while.

[IndigoPrime]

With The Phoenix, I'd say you don't get to 400 issues on vanity, and so it must by this point be profitable in some form. Its subs-heavy origins mostly point to a stable footing, and its gradual increase in newsstand presence is good to see — but has been and remains a bit slow. The reprint stuff must help. They're really smart on that score, with loads of great books coming out (although then sometimes going OOP), and they have those whopping great big multi-series collections for a tenner as well. It's interesting that DCT seems totally uninterested in following a similar reprint model — The Beano is comparatively disposable.

As for Rebellion, it does seem similar. People with a passion keep a comic going, and figure out how to make money, often through reprint... On a new comic, though, it's a really big ask, and now even more so.

[Blue Cactus]

Enjoying all the discussion here. I just wanted to chime in to say I roll my eyes every time the judges are all interchangeable white men. When I was a kid I always liked seeing more diversity amongst the judges. I presume it's usually down to the artist - a writer shouldn't have to specify 'please don't make all the judges white' or 'can you make some of the background judges women please'.

I can see how from one point of view, in a grim vision of the future you might expect a white patriarchal order to remain in charge. But I don't think the justice system in Dredd has been shown to discriminate in this way and I like that progressive vision of the future. It's one of the few optimistic elements of the strip!

[M.I.K.]

So... Am I the only person who was expecting from the first episode of Hershey that [spoiler]Dirty Frank[/spoiler] would show up?

[IndigoPrime]

I can see how from one point of view, in a grim vision of the future you might expect a white patriarchal order to remain in charge. But I don't think the justice system in Dredd has been shown to discriminate in this way and I like that progressive vision of the future. It's one of the few optimistic elements of the strip!

Exactly. Everyone is equal in the eyes of the law, and the strip's history has primarily concentrated on removing from society those who are genetically 'impure' rather than people by race or gender. (Religion is tricker to figure out—writers seem to paint a picture where the Judges injected a dumbed-down take on Christianity, and the original was probably made illegal; but other strips have dealt with religion in a far gentler way.)

But even if we delve into straightforward demographics today, black people are 13% of the US population, and white are 73%. But of that 'white' figure, something like one sixth is Hispanic/Latino (unless my paths is well off). Recent projections suggest white people will be under 50% by the middle of the 2000s, with Hispanic people accounting for about a quarter of the population. Of course, Dredd is Eastern seaboard, and lost most of its south; even so, it's hard to think by his time that perhaps half or more of the people in MC-1 wouldn't be BAME. Even if white people cling to power, you'd still be looking at a very sizeable number of Justice Dept people who are black or Hispanic (and a smaller but still fairly significant number of Asian); women entering various forces is also on the increase, and would hardly slow down by 2100 on.

So, yeah, it's banging the same ol' drum, but it does irk when a bunch of burly white male judges are standing around yet again, and then a woman Judge rocks up solely because the strip requires a Psi, or a black guy shows up because Giant's making a cameo, or it's time for America and so a Hispanic character finally gets an airing. (And I know that in itself is a bit hyperbolic—but only a bit.)

[TordelBack]

...a writer shouldn't have to specify 'please don't make all the judges white' or 'can you make some of the background judges women please'.

I know writers prescribing details to artists is a bad way to go*, but perhaps a general editorial note to remind all players in the Wagnerian sandbox that the Judges are equal-opportunities fascists, and should maybe look like it? 

It's perhaps not such a problem with supporting characters, with (for example) 2 black Chief Judges and 2 (1.75?) female Chief Judges out of the last 7 (McGruder and Hershey holding the top spot 4 times between them, and for the majority of the last 30 years), and with half-Hispanic (75%?) Beeny as heir-apparent - but for background characters it's still pretty resolutely male and white.  Do we ever see East Asian MC1 judges?  Kwan, maybe? 



*Moore's voluminous scripts generally being misunderstood in this regard - as all his most successful artistic collaborators attest.

[IndigoPrime]

It's perhaps not such a problem with supporting characters

In other words, it's not a problem when character gender and race is already mandated. But for everything else, it tends towards white bloke. (This isn't only a Dreddworld problem, obviously — it extends into a slew of other comics, including those way beyond the House of Tharg. But it's something that would in 2000 AD be relatively easy to address in terms of general representation, even if the comic's likely in the short-to-medium term to remain quite weak in terms of representation from the leads.)

[Magnetica]

For me this has been a good run of Progs.

The only place to start is Survival Geeks. I really wasn't a fan of the story or the art for the first few series but the last 3 have really won me over, to the point where I am really going to miss it. I can't really see why it is ending - I am guessing the creators feel they have taken it as far as they can and are quitting before the joke wears thin.

To pick up on a couple of comments up thread. Each of the quartets have different clothes and glasses (for those that wear them). Reading it in pretty much one go as I have does really help with that.

As to how they can suddenly go home, if I recall correctly they could always have done - it was just that Clive was basically lying to the others about it all along to keep their adventures going. Note his answer to Sam's statement "wait..I thought we couldn't": "well that's not strictly accurate".

The best thing about The Order being back is the Cure inspired title of the episode. Apart from that it has surpassed itself and lost me from panel one. As with Survival Geeks it suffers from multiple incarnations of the same character. At least with Survival Geeks all I had to do was pay attention to this series. With The Order I basically haven't got a clue who any one is anymore. As is noted up thread both Kek-W and Dan Abnett have multiple complex ongoing stories. The difference is with Dan's I can follow them, either no problem or as with the last series of Brink I felt it was well worth the effort to go back and work out what was going on. I tried that with the last series of The Order and regret to say it just didn't work for me. Same thing with Deadworld.

Looking forward to the new series of Slaine, especially the artwork. It seems like absolutely ages since we got a sneak preview of it.

[TordelBack]

In other words, it's not a problem when character gender and race is already mandated. But for everything else, it tends towards white bloke.

Yup.

[norton canes]

Sigh, late to the thread again. So much going on these days... and yet, conversely, not much going on at all... can't get my head round the passage of time at all. Assuming time is even still on the move. Anyway nice to see that this is the first 'prog' thread in ages to hit five pages, thanks to some intriguing discussion on the forthcoming Regened issue, the nature of Dredd's neurosis, the role of kids' comics in today's culture and nooo, I can't *believe* that Survival Geeks has finally come to and end, I love that strip so much it's been so brilliant the characters have been adorable and the stories have been fantastic and the art has just been unbelievable, and, and... you know when you just *get* a comic strip or a TV show or whatever and you love it so much you wish you were *part* of it (why am I still adding asterisks when I've stopped using italics) and then it's over and you feel like a little bit of it's gone with you (you don't? well what's wrong with you??!) and even though the last episode was a bit incoherent and didn't really explain everything it's still OK because that just adds to the mystique (yes Blake's Seven I'm looking at you) and ahh no there's only one page left and then it's over and...

Oh f*ck, I've just remembered where the "Look, were not unreasonable..." reference comes from. That is absolutely exquisite. Now actually going to go away and have a little cry.

Elsewhere in the prog: stuff.

[norton canes]

^ I should point out that when I wrote that I was very slightly drunk.