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The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread

Started by Colin YNWA, 22 May, 2016, 02:30:29 PM

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Colin YNWA

So by Prog 234 I've realised that the slow and steady build up to the Golden Age has dulled my senses. My Thrillnodes have been slowly bloated to the point of not realising how good the comic has become.

Prog 234 really hammers this home. See its far form the perfect Prog, Nemesis is having its break to allow Kev O'Neill to stun the Galaxy with his frankly unparalleled art. Strontium Dog has left us for the time being, while Mean Arena has found an entirely unsuitable artist in Eric Bradbury, whose work I normally love, here I just don't get on with it. Rogue's back and its already getting grating and formulaic. There is of course treasure. A fun Future Shock by one A. Moore, some great Dredd and Ace Trucking is really finding its stride in its third episode.

Its the weaker stuff that reveals quite how good the Prog is though. Rogue Trooper is simple but looks great and at least has some great ideas. Mean Arena is tough, its just a bit drifty and lacks any kind of focus, its characters offering you little. But this poor stuff is no Angel, no Disaster 1990, in earlier Progs, surrounded by weaker great material would I have embraced their weaknesses more? I think so, I think I've read and enjoyed weaker materials than this in earlier issues.

The comics has created a new context for its stories, over the last 50 or so issues the Galaxies Greatest has proved its no mere  inflated claim and so reading it is changing as well. Even in this condensed reading I'm being pulled up as a reader, without realising and my expectations are changing and the standards I'm judging things by changing... I probably should have saved this for my end of year summary, but I think this incredible shift worth mentioning now as its taken the weakest issue for a while to make the quality so clear.

Colin YNWA

2000ad 1981

So if 1980 saw the Prog find its balance, if it didn't quite find it heights 1981 put that to bed. If 1980 saw the Galaxies Greatest become far more consistant than it had been in past - well since its opening line-up anyway -  it was was consistant where as 1981 has had the solid baseline AND had some quite astonishing peaks.

So yeah in 1981 2000ad truly becomes the Galaxies Greatest Comic.

Its a commonly held belief and almost a cliche amongst fans but I must admit I was a little surprised quite how taken I've been. I mean I knew the highs were there I mean 1981 had the very best strips (beyond Dredd) the comics every had. Consider.

Return to Armageddon
Portrait of a Mutant
Ace Trucking's fantastic start (and I emphasize start there I suspect I might be back to this point next 'year'
Nemesis the chuffin' mind blowing Warlock
Perfect Dredd

So yeah the the highs are clear and obvious. The thing that's made this year more special is the lows are so much better than I expected. They are still lows but they all say so much about where the Prog has risen to. Meltdown Man was doing my head in by the end but it was wonderfully chaotic and had much to enjoy, Mean Arena is a weak thrill but again its classicly 2000ad for that. Nicely grim and dirty, if not always executed too well. Rogue Trooper, a strip I really don't enjoy that much actually gets off to a much better start than I remember. There are some episodes, particularly the first, that I actively liked. The strip is already creaking a bit and the blandness of Rogue himself shines through from the off. Still though it almost always looks stunning and the world of Nu Earth is delightfully crazy and thrilling.

So yeah the comic comes of golden age. The question is now can 1982 sustain it?

Colin YNWA

1982 Annuals

Well 2000ad is getting better and the Dredd one ain't as good as the 1981 one but its still pretty stella... not much else to say is there really!

Okay a little. The 1982 2000ad annual is at least making an effort and has some pretty nice strips. A great Steve Parkhouse Future Shock, a brill Bolland Dredd and more besides. Its still got a lot a filler. It was BRILLIANT filler in the day. I was so excited about having the early Flesh and MACH 1 again when I first has this as a kid and our original Progs had gone. Now though its filler. So the 2000ad annual is beginning to realise that quality can pay but its still not in the league of the Dredd annual.

As for the Dredd annual there is once again three magnificent McMahon stories (lower page count alas) and they are stunning. The rest though, while not bad, ain't as good as the simply glorious stuff in the king of annuals the year before. Still its a bit wonderful.

Jim_Campbell

There was always this odd disconnect with the annuals after the Dredd ones were introduced... the 2000AD ones were 128 (?) pages and felt padded, whilst the Dredd ones at 96 (?) felt lean and focussed. Having three full colour Dredds by the same artist really tied those Dredd annuals together, obviously helped by the fact that the contributions by McMahon, then Ezquerra, were quite brilliant.
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Colin YNWA

Well early steps into 1982 and I'm plesently surprised. Oh sure some things are as you'd expect. Dredd is quite superb as the Apocolypse War hits the invasion of Mega City 1, things have been quite supremely grim for Dredd and co. Nemesis Book 2 still remains an undervalued gem of a story. Mean Arena is still a bit (lot) rubbish).A little surprise with ACE Trucking as it remains immense fun and I'm enjoying it more than I remember. Always had fond memories of the series, but remember on my last read finding it disappointing at times.

The big surprise is I'm not hating Rogue Trooper though. Its relatively early days on the strip and it does have considerable problems. Any story doesn't really survive any close examination. Rogue is still a rubbish, flat led BUT last time the read the series I found it an absolute chore and skip vast chunks, before skipping it all together. This time I find I'm better able to ignore its problems and enjoy it for what it is, while gloring in its visuals.

I think the main reason is my current re-read is being done Prog to Prog, rather than story to story and the break in reading a poor story to read the rest of a Prog rather than slogging through helps diminish the impact of problems. In the past when I've read one strip in one go, issues are magnified as they build over episode to episode. Read 'properly' the opposite seems to happen and my concerns are diluted.

AlexF

I remember the really early Rogue Troper stories as being genuinely poignant in their treatment of the horrors of war; more horrifynig because we never really know what either side is fighting for, if anything, although we do know that Nu-Earth is just one battleground - not even teh home planet of most of the soldiers. Later, longer storylines get more caught up in action narratives but for me this basic facet of the strip managed to hold all the way through until Re-Gene, by which point it really was all about rogue himself, who, as you say, is a little flat.

They never did explain how Rogue is so well-adjusted, despite being, in a way, about 5 years old and with no experience of life outside a military training camp or a war world. Gibbons 'War Machine' did attempt to look at this; Fleisher's Friday series did not.


Colin YNWA

A couple of snappy questions.

Firstly why the hell isn't Nemesis Book 2 hailed as the classic it is? Sure it doesn't have Kev O'Neill art but damnit Jesus Redondo is as good a replacement as you could hope for  and double damnit its a bloody fantastic story.

Secondly, how many times does Joe Black appear? I don't really remember the character, which would seem odd given I must have read these stories numerous times  by now... well okay not so odd given they are pretty flat BUT bloomin' heck he's on his fourth or fifth story, all with great John Higgins art, you'd have thought he'd have made more of an impression?

Jim_Campbell

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 09 December, 2016, 08:59:51 PM
Firstly why the hell isn't Nemesis Book 2 hailed as the classic it is? Sure it doesn't have Kev O'Neill art but damnit Jesus Redondo is as good a replacement as you could hope for  and double damnit its a bloody fantastic story.

I'm with you on this. I thought Redondo's rendition of all the major characters was fantastic (Purity... oh, those cheekbones!) and the story was smart and affecting. Redondo also draws great giant spiders and Steve Potter's lettering manages to be innovative whilst still being clean and legible.
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sheridan

Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 09 December, 2016, 10:19:20 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 09 December, 2016, 08:59:51 PM
Firstly why the hell isn't Nemesis Book 2 hailed as the classic it is? Sure it doesn't have Kev O'Neill art but damnit Jesus Redondo is as good a replacement as you could hope for  and double damnit its a bloody fantastic story.

I'm with you on this. I thought Redondo's rendition of all the major characters was fantastic (Purity... oh, those cheekbones!) and the story was smart and affecting. Redondo also draws great giant spiders and Steve Potter's lettering manages to be innovative whilst still being clean and legible.
I loved Redondo's depiction of Novala as well (the would-be human colony planet which had become overgrown and first featured in Olric's Great Quest).  Not to mention Sister Alvit and the Vestal Vampires playing charades :-)

Magnetica

For me it is all relative. Book 2 is merely a solid adventure story, whereas book 1 was a true wow moment. Book 3 was a continuation of book 1 really. Books 3,4, 5 and 6 took it into a whole other gothic nightmare direction. After that I'm not so sure.

Book 2 feels like a inessential detour on the route from Book 1 to Book 3.

So nothing wrong with book 2, it just suffers in comparison, in my opinion, when matched against stuff which is some of the very best 2000AD has ever published.

Redondo and Talbot always drew a better Torquemada for me than O'Neill, managing to get expressions out of his helmet in a way that O'Neill never did. But the look of Nemesis, Termight, the Terminators and the Aliens created by O'Neill, well there were just amazing.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: Magnetica on 10 December, 2016, 09:44:47 AM
Redondo and Talbot always drew a better Torquemada for me than O'Neill, managing to get expressions out of his helmet in a way that O'Neill never did. But the look of Nemesis, Termight, the Terminators and the Aliens created by O'Neill, well there were just amazing.

Ha - that's interesting cos one of the many reasons I really like O'Neill's Nemesis is the cold emotionless face that he gives The Warlock more often than not. It makes him feel unreadable and adds to his intrigue. I love much about the work Redondo and Talbot add to the series but this specific is one of their weaker elements for me!

Anyway to other matters, read 259 and aside from the shock that I'm already 5 years into my re-read (based on issue numbers as the comc is at this time) its really interesting that this issue starts with two comedy strips, Robo-Hunter, followed by ACE Trucking. Both not bad one off epsisodes, but their placing felt really off, especially when you are thrown straight from them into the gloriously grim Apocalypse War. Its not the best Prog as its an early example of a fuller issue before a 'Jumping On Prog' but this is slightly exaggerated by this curious strip placement. Goes to show, just like the tracks on an album, the order of strips in the comics can play into how good a piece of work it is regardless of the individual elements that make it.

Colin YNWA

Couple more quick points of note:

Prog 261 - Greatest cliffhanger EVER right. I remember how long it felt between Progs very specifically due to this one. A week of my 10 year old mind trying to thing... how, how, HOW does Dredd survivie that one!

Hpw great is the run of Brit Cit Robo-Hunter, having read The Beast of Blackheart Manor and start of Filby Case its clear that the strip works better in short doses (see start of Day of the Driods)

A story I'd completely forgotten 'Alec Trench - Zombie' 263 + 4, I think see Ron Smith being Jack Kirby'd, Jack famously has this drawing of Superman's face replaced when drawing Jimmy Olsen. Does the same happen to Ron Smith's Tharg here. All the images of Tharg in the intros and end panels just don't fit and I reckon they are Robin Smith's (Art Editor at the time). I wonder what was wrong with Ron's Tharg?

TordelBack

Ooo, I wonder is this potential sleight the secret origin of the 'Rob Smith' nose Ron draws in Citizen Snork?

Colin YNWA

Quote from: TordelBack on 11 December, 2016, 11:31:38 PM
Ooo, I wonder is this potential sleight the secret origin of the 'Rob Smith' nose Ron draws in Citizen Snork?

Well bless uou for wading through my unreadable nonsense BUT heavens to Betsy my inability to type coherantly annoys me at times.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 11 December, 2016, 09:19:36 PM
A story I'd completely forgotten 'Alec Trench - Zombie' 263 + 4, I think I CAN see Ron Smith being Jack Kirby'd, Jack famously has HAD this HIS drawingS of Superman's face replaced when drawing the comic Jimmy Olsen. Does the same THING happen to Ron Smith's Tharg here. ? All the images of Tharg in the intros and end panels just don't fit and I reckon they are Robin Smith's (Art Editor at the time). I wonder what was wrong with Ron's Tharg?

Colin YNWA

Fuckin' hell - bless YOU - 3/10 Taylor please re-read what you scribble!