Gosh!

[Rambo]

Stories aren't about wars, or whatever - they're about people. Even when the character is a robot or whatever - the reader has to be able to empathise with it.

Automated souless killing machines don't get the reader involved.

[The Amstor Computer]

>>>Stories aren't about wars, or whatever - they're about people. Even when the character is a robot or whatever - the reader has to be able to empathise with it.

Automated souless killing machines don't get the reader involved<<<

Broadly, I agree. However, as I've said before, I never empathised with Rogue very much.
I could understand his plight & the reasons for his quest, but it was *Nu-Earth* that fascinated me, and the humans fighting in this hellhole who I identified with.
The Dredd comparison is apt - who here really empathises with Dredd? My attraction has always been to the city & the everyday people who have to live under the Judges.

[Leigh S]

Hmm, noone like Scojo to put forward a calmly reasoned argument....

That said I actually kind of agree against myself, or rather the way I put it in the earlier post (which did have worryingly Millarish overtones >brrrrr<).  

Basically, Rogue would not act like any other soldier - he would have been bred and trained to suppress feelings like fear or sorrow.  However, anger, loyalty and a desire for vengeance are very useful traits in a soldier.  My description as soulless is wrong, but his reactions would certainly not be the reactions of you or I.  Rogue should be a very interesting character who, like Dredd has had his humanity stifled.  What I'm hoping for is a more complex character than the original Rogue, who was basically a personality free grunt.

[Leigh S]

And a small point, but a lot of people had a hand in creating Rogue - he is the closest to being a character created by committee of any in the history of 2000AD.  The editorial team of the time had a massive input into the creation of rogue - see the 1983 2000AD Annual for more.  Just cause GDF didn't do anything interesting with Rogue as a character doesn't mean others can't.  

it would be a bit like saying that since the original Dredd film was filled with a confusing mishmash of old continuity, evil clones, Dredd's doubts about the Judicial system and Dredd being replaced that any new film should follow the same template.  And who would be foolish enough to do that?:)

[Leigh S]

What I'm trying to say is that Rogue should be grim,  scary, imposing, relentless - a figure of fear to the Norts and a glimmer of hope for the overwhelmed Southers - not yoir average bloke.  Look to the Alan Moore/Brett Ewins Rogue story as the template.  I agree with whoever said Nu Earth and the ordinary soldiers should be the stars, in much the same way as MC1 is the star of Dredd - another good example of how Rogue can be done well is the Milligan story told from the point of view of the Nort soldier.  Basically GDF did good stuff with Rogue but very rarely classic stuff. The striop has the potential to be classic through and through, and shouldn't be shackled by the limitations of its previous writer.

[W. R. Logan]

>What I am worrying about is that Gordon Rennie's stuff is either brilliant or bollox, with about a 60/40 split, it seems to me.

Thats a very generous evaluation 8-)

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

[2000AD Online]

Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. If only the strip wasn't saddled with those inherent contrivances such as Helm, Gunnar, and Bagman conveniently extending their lives as part of the weaponary they were most adept at. And did anyone else ever try rationalizing how Rogue's three companions so conveniently had the numbers one, two, and three on their bio-chips? The best I could come up with was that that was the order in which they emerged from their test tubes.

[W. R. Logan]

>Becuse he did have a soul, he was driven with the need to avenge their deaths. This was the whole point of the story.

You don't need a soul to seek vengence. If you were raised from birth to be the perfect soldier you'd simply want to avenge your comrades death. In fact the lack of soul comes in handy when you are expected to kill on command.

La Placa Rifa,
W. R. Logan.

[The Amstor Computer]

>>>I agree with whoever said Nu Earth and the ordinary soldiers should be the stars, in much the same way as MC1 is the star of Dredd - another good example of how Rogue can be done well is the Milligan story told from the point of view of the Nort soldier<<<

That would be :-)

There are a thousand-and-one interesting tales to be told about Nu-Earth, but IMO, few of them have Rogue as a central character.

[Thread Zero]

Did someone say NEW DREDD FILM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

scojo

[GordonR]

>>Rogue should be a very interesting character who, like Dredd has had his humanity stifled<<

Ah, but that's the point,isn't it?  Rogue _isn't_ human.  He's not a clone of a real person, as Dredd is.  He was grown in a lab.  He was purpose-designed for war on Nu Earth.  His physiology is pretty much non-human (can you breathe poison gas or go for a swim in acid?) and whatever emotions he has should also be rather alien to us.

[Leigh S]

True - though I expect that it would be easier to give someone physiological advantages such as harder skin, than to genetically muck about with their minds.  You'd want a level of 'human' emotions left, in order for them to operate in such a way as to have advantages over robotic soldiers.  Loyalty, determination to survive and succeed, patriotism etc.  You'd probably be better doing that from birth rather than before.

Talking of Rogues 'early years', If you were the Southers, I'd expect you'd want to accelerate their physical development - you wouldnt want them to take 15 years to grow, probably the most you'd want to invest in them is 5 years tops. I know the whole biochip thing is supposed to explain that, but you'd probably only want to teach them fairly simple interactions, - kill the bad guy, look after the good guy - they havent got to learn the complete works of Shakespeare to be efficient killers.  Might be interesting if Rogue was no more than nursery age....

[GordonR]

>Might be interesting if Rogue was no more than nursery age....

Kind of a radical departure from the original, though?  Remember, the new series is kind of Legends of Rogue Trooper.  ie.  it's all the stories you didn't see first time around set between all the stories you did see.  It's not really a reboot or a retcon, although I imagine there'll be a certain degree of re-interpretation to bring the strip more up to date.

[Leigh S]

I don't think the actual age of Rogue has ever been defined - we've seen him as a child, but there's been nothing to say how long that childhood lasted.  However, if they're going to be flashbacks, then I don't suppose you can be too radical. That said, I think there's got to be some space to flesh out Rogue and Nu Earth, otherwise whats the point? And that's got to mean contradicting or at the very least embellishing the original run, surely?

[Rambo]

Well I liked things like Glimmer Rats and Necronauts, but Raindogs was unreadable, and my opinion of Storming Heaven is above, and none-too complimentary.

I call 'em as I see 'em! :)