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Carano, Whedon and all that

Started by Professor Bear, 11 February, 2021, 01:22:41 PM

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Professor Bear

2020: Gina Carano being in The Mandalorian is SJW woke culture ruining Star Wars!
2021: Gina Carano not being in The Mandalorian is SJW woke culture ruining Star Wars!

Funt Solo

Quote from: Professor Bear on 11 February, 2021, 01:22:41 PM
2020: Gina Carano being in The Mandalorian is SJW woke culture ruining Star Wars!
2021: Gina Carano not being in The Mandalorian is SJW woke culture ruining Star Wars!

Gina Carano dropped from Mandalorian after 'abhorrent' posts

Cynical me is wondering if Disnae saw an opportunity to drop her because her performance is so wooden, or one-note. She is exactly the same whether at a round-table actor-chat or in the middle of a battle scene.
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Professor Bear

The in-universe explanation is that she resembles wood all the time because it was essential camouflage in the Endor campaign.

Link Prime

I haven't watched one second of Star Wars since The Last Jedi, so couldn't comment on Gina Carano's acting chops.

I do know however that she could crush 98% of us between her legs, and that we'd die with a grin on our face.

Funt Solo

Rather depending on a few factors, but I'll let M.P. have the final say.

++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Funt Solo

How are you supposed to get into or out of an AT-ST, anyway?
++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Definitely Not Mister Pops

Quote from: Funt Solo on 11 February, 2021, 08:10:12 PM
How are you supposed to get into or out of an AT-ST, anyway?

As poorly as the Empire designs things, you would have to assume there would at least be some manner of door or hatch?
You may quote me on that.

Funt Solo

++ A-Z ++  coma ++

Tjm86

Quote from: Funt Solo on 11 February, 2021, 03:14:37 PM

Gina Carano dropped from Mandalorian after 'abhorrent' posts


TBH I'm wondering if what I've read of this is somewhat truncated.  The Grauniad appeared to reproduce more of the allegedly abhorrent post, leading me to question the reaction.

What I read was actually reasonably valid, to whit that one of the issues with the rise of National Socialism in Germany and the Holocaust was the ability of politicians to effectively harness grievances, exploit division and direct it accordingly.

Pointing to the complicity of the average citizen (and "Hitler's Willing Executioners" is well worth a read on this point) and questioning the current political climate / social situation from the perspective of avoiding past mistakes is not without merit.

As I say though, having not read the full posting, it is a little difficult to comment.  That said, putting it in the background of some of her other postings and statements ....

shaolin_monkey

I see what you mean, but I feel Carano's approach to discussing this was way out of line.

First of all, re her being fired, my place of work has a pretty standard clause in the contract of employment that my words and actions must not bring the company into disrepute.

So, if I went on a years-long social media spree saying such things as no-one should wear masks in the middle of a pandemic, trans rights are irrelevant and inconsequential, and, as a finisher, claiming that being called out on right-wing politics is the same as the abuse Jews received in the 30s in Hitler's Germany, then my employer would get shot of me sharpish, and have every right to do so.

While I agree we should be incredibly wary of this polarisation of society given history's lessons, any right-wing commentator speaking from a position of privilege who likens their 'struggle' to the appalling, vile treatment of Jewish people in Hitler's Germany, needs to be massively called out on it. Its a horrendous thing to say, which trivialises one of the most awful things to have happened to a group of human beings at the hands of other human beings.

IndigoPrime

^ All of that, which is what I'd been writing but put down way better than I did. What she did was not OK. What she did should not be normalised. However, the entire industry needs to apply rules evenly when it comes to behaviour. Frankly, Whedon should be nowhere near anything, given what's come out about him now.

shaolin_monkey

Yeah, Whedon - what grim things I've been reading about him. It massively taints Firefly and Buffy, two productions I've really enjoyed previously.

Yesterday was just a hugely disappointing day for those with a love of sci-fi and fantasy TV and film.

IndigoPrime

There's also something interesting — and horrible — about the way in which open secrets are tolerated, notably among powerful men. We got this with Scott Allie. When things became just too much, people were all "yeah, well, we've known that for a decade". Mignola came off badly. He knew Allie had problems but didn't want to confront them nor him. We heard the usual BS from various parties about a man who claimed he was all better, despite continuing to do the exact same things people were complaining about in the first place.

With Whedon, there was clearly a different kind of shielding. People were petrified of calling him out because he could end their careers. So they didn't. That means people — mostly women — worked under intolerable conditions, he convinced young actresses to fuck him, and even people in make-up were scared of losing their jobs. That's not how any workplace should function.

For me, two things in particular stand out. The first is Kai Cole's article, which outlines what went on and some of Whedon's responses, and that is casually hand-waved away by a spokesperson. The wording is very careful — enough to avoid being litigious but also plenty enough to cast doubt and result in people arguing onesideism. It's a standard tactic of abusers. (Also, creepily, Michelle Trachtenberg elsewhere has said there was a rule which was "He's not allowed in a room alone with Michelle again." Yikes.)

However, the second thing is when you look at his productions with new eyes. For every moment of empowerment in Buffy/Angel, there is some kind of strange fetishism about keeping women down. Throughout those series, several women die in childbirth (of varying types) as a punishment. All of them are effectively 'erased' from existence. This in itself could arguably be a statement, but those deaths are not for the benefit of boosting women but to drive the male character arcs. Fridging, but in a particularly nasty manner.

With Charisma Carpenter, we know there were behind the scenes issues driving this. Whedon's actions there were abhorrent and unforgivable. He took a character who'd grown and changed and dismissed that as her having had no agency in those changes. He created a hideous set of plotting regarding her character, seemingly just to teach Carpenter a lesson for, what, getting pregnant? (And after months of ignoring her agent's calls.) What would have been feminist: having Cordi kick arse WHILE pregnant or WHILE a mum. But too often in Whedonland, only fathers really matter.

But even beyond that, treatment of women in his other work varies. We've just been going through the MCU on Disney+ and, frankly, what the fuck is happening with Black Widow in Age of Ultron? I mean, that's a dreadfully scripted and plotted movie anyway, but, seriously, it's baffling. Then there are the little sexist 'jokes' and put downs peppered about. Even Firefly, arguably his best work, has troubling things to say about women. (Note: I'm not saying productions should be free of sexism. My problem is when the productions themselves are sexist or misogynistic. Long-time boarders will know about me making that distinction with the horror that was Skyfall.)

It's sad. Some of Whedon's work was a big part of my 20s. I've enjoyed (at the time) a lot of Whedon's work. But, frankly, fuck him. And going forward, I'm not sure I'll be able to approach or revisit any of his output with a great degree of enthusiasm. I guess if nothing else, the modern world at least lets us know who our 'heroes' really are, but it's painful finding out. (See also: legions of Harry Potter fans, now trying to figure out how they align their love for those books with the person who created them.)



Tjm86

Quote from: shaolin_monkey on 12 February, 2021, 08:45:12 AM
... any right-wing commentator speaking from a position of privilege who likens their 'struggle' to the appalling, vile treatment of Jewish people in Hitler's Germany, needs to be massively called out on it.

I'm with you 100% on that one.  My only thing is what I've read so far doesn't come across that way.  Rather that the treatment of Jews in Germany in the 30's arose out of a political climate that is very similar in some respects to that of today.

It's not so much a case of casting right-wing 'struggles' in the same light as drawing parallels between such extremist positions.  Of course the greater irony is that she fails to see that the positions she is supporting far more closely parallel those she is using as analogies.  Right-wing populism both then and now is extremely dangerous.

This is why I say that I loathe to comment too much as I haven't seen the full statement.  That said, having seen some of the other stuff she has posted online I can understand the reactions.

We also face the same issues with regards to social media use at work.  It is one of the reasons why I am so careful myself. Not to mention good old fashion human decency ...

IndigoPrime

I'd argue it's also about context. We see this a lot from people at the far right. They make a statement and it's _just_ written carefully enough to be theoretically innocuous or both-sides or attempting to challenge thinking or any other excuse. But in context with everything else, you can see a very clear pattern.

In this case, it's not an accident—it's the latest post in a string of posts. Here, a comparison was being drawn, in a manner that is completely unacceptable. We as a society can either continue to hand-wave this shit away and look on, shocked, as liberal values continue to crumble, or we can actually start pushing back against it.