Scorsese makes Joker movie - or The Death of Culture

[Frank]

Whether Mr Scorsese gets a say in casting, editing or anything else, I doubt

I'm sure the film will show as much of its Executive Producer's influence as that Batman v Superman Chris Nolan put his name to.

Scorsese's involvement will be the same as the bras Holly Willoughby 'designs' for New Look. Their PA shows them some samples, they say 'does it have to be blue?' or 'the tits should be bigger; the next thing they hear about it is when it's in the bargain bin, with their name all over it.

[sheridan]

I guess the crown prince of crime is going to be a wise guy. This attempt to recast the Joker as an organised crime figure does resonate with me since a lot of the animated Batman stories had this as the back story of the Joker, and you can see Warner Bros logic behind it.

Also the Joker has been a be-suited organised crime figure since at least far back as Burton/Nicholson's Batman from the 1980s (which was probably the first Batman story I, and many others, were exposed to other than the 1960s TV series).

[Frank]

"I don't see them. I tried, you know? But that's not cinema," Scorsese told Empire magazine about the Marvel movies. "Honestly, the closest I can think of them, as well made as they are, with actors doing the best they can under the circumstances, is theme parks. It isn't the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being."


Turns out Scorsese had nothing at all to do with Hangover-guy's Taxi Driver rip-off. Unless Marty's being paid to troll Marvel fanboys:


1/ Goodfellas
2 Raging Bull
3/ The King Of Comedy
4/ After Hours
5/ Taxi Driver
6/ Mean Streets
7/ Cape Fear
8/ Captain America
9/ Casino
10/ New York New York
11/ Iron Man
12/ Alice Doesn't Live Here Anymore
13/ Hugo
14/ Thor: Ragnarok
15/ Bringing Out The Dead
16/ The Age Of Innocence
17/ Guardians Of The Galaxy
18/ The Color Of Money
19/ The Aviator
20/ Avengers: Endgame
21/ Bringing Out The Dead
22/ The Passion Of The Christ
23/ Iron Man 3
24/ Gangs Of New York
25/ Kundun
26/ Dr Strange

[JayzusB.Christ]

Anyone seen it yet? While I've seen mixed reviews, I can't wait.  I never really had much interest in Marvel characters and was disappointed to see the last few Superman / Batman movies falling flat.  I really hope Joker gives DC films a bit of a boost.

[The Enigmatic Dr X]

Nope. My 14 year old just got knocked back from it.

Y'know, the original posts on this thread might end up being premature, if reviews are anything to go by.

[Frank]

Nope. My 14 year old just got knocked back from it.

Y'know, the original posts on this thread might end up being premature, if reviews are anything to go by.

Joker is 6 on Metacritic, 7 on RT (9 audience), and 9 on IMDB (audience only).

It got a B+ on Cinemascore*; same as IT: Chapter 2, less than Hobbs & Shaw (A-) or Gerard Butler's Angel Has Fallen (A-).


* Paying patrons surveyed in lobbies straight after leaving screenings, rather than self-reporting users of websites, who may or may not have seen the movie

[JayzusB.Christ]

Cheers Frank. Oddly not nearly as consistently high as I'd expected, after reports of standing ovations and chatter about potential Oscars.  Still, I love the fact that this seems to be a small-scale character study rather than a messy sci-fi extravaganza, and I think it's pretty brave of DC to allow their most famous supervillain to be used this way.

[Frank]

It won the Golden Lion at Venice, so critics went into it expecting to be impressed. That probably means some of the critic scores cited above are a little low. Equally, the kind of people who see a film on its first day (and who rate it on the internet) are predisposed to like it.

As Cosh points out on this discussion of Batman Vs Superman, once regular punters vote in numbers that correct for initial fan enthusiasm, the high audience scores and low critic scores meet somewhere in the middle. Today, Batman Vs Superman's rated 6.5 on IMDB*

If history's any guide, that B+ Cinemascore means Joker's probably a quite enjoyable movie that you'll enjoy a little more than most if you're already a fan.


* note the anomalous spikes in 10 & 0 scores, just like Joker

[dweezil2]

Anyone seen it yet? While I've seen mixed reviews, I can't wait.  I never really had much interest in Marvel characters and was disappointed to see the last few Superman / Batman movies falling flat.  I really hope Joker gives DC films a bit of a boost.

I felt that the serious themes of mental health and social decay were an uncomfortable match for a rather shallow super villain origin story, even though Pheonix's performance is remarkable at times.

It wears it's Scorsese influence a little too obviously on it's clown crumpled sleeve also, though their are moments of audatious grandeur and it looks fabulous, with the film's attention to 80's style Gotham.

[Funt Solo]

...Hangover-guy's Taxi Driver rip-off.

The textual equivalent of pissing all over Todd Phillips doormat and then belching drunkenly in his face when he opens the door to complain. Have you even seen the movie?

[karlos]

Just saw it.

It's crap.

[Apestrife]

Saw it yesterday. Really liked it. Bit like Taxi Driver does King of Comedy with sprinkles of American Psycho in clown spackle. The thing about his laugh was heartbreaking... Some really creepy scenes (in a good way I think). Fascinating getting to root for a character and then despise him. Me and my friend's take away from watching it was a solid "hope people become nicer to each other" in unison.

As for it borrowing a lot from Scorsese, I didn't mind. Wouldn't mind if more did.

Made me really want to watch The Dark Knight. Watching it now. heist in the beginning. [spoiler]"I hear he wears makeup... to scare people. You know, war paint.", made the two fit together in my head canon. Phoenix mista J being an inspiration to Heath's Joker.[/spoiler]

[Richard]

Just saw it tonight. It's brilliant. Not for everyone, perhaps, but I think that is a matter of personal taste, not a defect in the film. When I read a two word review that just says "it's crap," that tells me more about the reviewer than it tells anyone about the film. Phoenix will be nominated for an Oscar.

It's not an action movie. It's a dark and brutal character study of how a mentally ill but initially decent man spirals down into becoming vengeful and ultimately evil. I think the trailer (at least the trailer I saw) accurately shows the tone of the film.

It reminded me of Nightcrawler, and I think that is a good litmus test. If you liked / disliked that film, your reaction to Joker will probably be the same.

[karlos]

I'll eluicidate.

I was hugely excited for this but, for me, it did not deliver, beyond a very good central performance and the occasional bit of bleak humour.

Felt very much like a patchwork assembly of parts from other, better films (the 70s WB logo was a giveaway, I guess).

Kudos to DC for letting it get it made and I hope it's success leads to more of these off-centre comic book films getting made but I really did not like it at all.

[radiator]

Anyone seen it yet? While I've seen mixed reviews, I can't wait.  I never really had much interest in Marvel characters and was disappointed to see the last few Superman / Batman movies falling flat.  I really hope Joker gives DC films a bit of a boost.

I felt that the serious themes of mental health and social decay were an uncomfortable match for a rather shallow super villain origin story, even though Pheonix's performance is remarkable at times.

It wears it's Scorsese influence a little too obviously on it's clown crumpled sleeve also, though their are moments of audatious grandeur and it looks fabulous, with the film's attention to 80's style Gotham.

I'd go along with this take. It all seems a bit overly serious for what amounts to a slightly preposterous tale (the fairly perfunctory plotting and more egregiously comic booky elements are easily the weakest aspects of the film) but if its going to be superhero movies from here to eternity its probably better if they're as stylish and character/performance focused as this, I suppose.

Not a masterpiece by any stretch, but worth seeing.