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General Chat => Film & TV => Topic started by: Judgedreddrocks on 27 April, 2018, 10:54:04 AM

Title: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Judgedreddrocks on 27 April, 2018, 10:54:04 AM
I went to see Infinity War yesterday, and I can honestly say it was brilliant. I felt like I was watching a key moment in movie history. A total emotional rollercoaster.

10 years of (mostly) great films (Ed Norton's Hulk was a bit ropey), culminating in an a non-stop action
flick with a great cast and a fantastic bad guy in Thanos. (They totally nailed the CGI, unless that Justise League Stepenwolf guy).

The acting in certain scenes were top notch. A particular shout out to Tom Holland's Spiderman and Josh Brolin's Thanos.

I won't spoil anything for anyone. Go watch it and make up your own mind.

Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: matty_ae on 27 April, 2018, 11:45:20 AM
Yup 100% agree.

Marvel dont do 'set pieces' anymore - the whole movie is a 'set piece' but not in a Transformers nonsense way. I cared about the characters and was on the edge of my seat.

So many moments. Never had an audience applaud an entry before.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: The Monarch on 27 April, 2018, 03:53:46 PM
amazing film [spoiler]wished valkyrie wasn't killed offscreen[/spoiler] but alas a minor blip in an otherwise great film

also [spoiler]HOLY SHIT RED SKULL![/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: radiator on 27 April, 2018, 04:42:30 PM
It worked about as well as it possibly could have done, considering how much stuff they had to juggle, but as is the drill with these things it feels like eating a giant three course meal where each course is a dessert. It's the best and worse elements of Marvel movies dialed up to 11.

As an experience, it definitely worthwhile (I saw it in a giant packed out cinema where every time a familiar character or element appeared onscreen there were huge cheers and applause), but it's more a sequence of individual great little moments than a great film in it's own right.

The glaring problem for me was that the non-stop pacing and the almost total lack of any non-superhuman characters in the movie made it all feel weirdly small scale and lacking in stakes and context.

The ending was weird... [spoiler]feels like it's all set up for some giant time-travel-related cop-out. And when everyone inevitably comes back, it has the old comic book problem where death seems totally meaningless. I'd rather have had a few minor deaths that are actually going to stick. I'm assuming that all of the non gauntlet-related deaths (Vision, Gamora, Loki, Heimdall) are permanent?[/spoiler]

As for [spoiler]Valkyrie - pretty sure she isn't dead.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Fungus on 28 April, 2018, 01:54:25 AM
Anti-Marvel comment deleted.
Please enjoy your Marvel tosh.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Archie Leech on 28 April, 2018, 05:39:19 AM
Saw this in IMAX 3D.
For a LOOOOOONG film it seemed to fly by. I didn't find any individual scenes boring or unnecessary. There were some sacrifices- Valkyrie not being onscreen. Winter Soldier being little more than a cameo...but to include so many characters, keep you invested, develop them all and move the plot along I would say this is a huge success.
Yes, it's not Godfather part 2 or Citizen Kane. It's a huge entertaining pop-corn film.
I found this much more enjoyable that the turgid Black Panther. Stand out moments from Chis Hemsworth as Thor in almost every scene he's in. Tom Holland, Zoe Saldana and stealing the movie from under RDJ's feet- for me- was Benedict Cumberbatch as the Sorcerer Supreme.
The ending was pretty much as promised (or threatened) by Thanos.
I'm also guessing a time travel solution based on what's known about Avengers 4 and my suspicions that Doctor Strange set it all up to go this way as the only scenario where they can win.
I'm now looking forward to Avengers 4, even if the heroes that died stay dead. It will be interesting to see where they go from here.
Financial success is assured and I know Marvel have their critics but I found this to be a much better film than Black Panther, The Last Jedi and Force Awakens!
I will be going to see it again. (That's a definite as my Mrs has told me she definitely wants to see it too based on word of mouth from her social circles.)
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Link Prime on 28 April, 2018, 04:05:14 PM
For what it was, it was great.
I liked Radiator's analogy;
Quote from: radiator on 27 April, 2018, 04:42:30 PM
it feels like eating a giant three course meal where each course is a dessert

For anyone who's ever seen Peter St John hand over a crystal pyramid to the bad guys, next years resolution won't be too much of a surprise.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Mattofthespurs on 28 April, 2018, 04:29:45 PM
Some spoilers in Archie's report that I would rather not have read, no?
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 28 April, 2018, 05:07:04 PM
Quote from: Mattofthespurs on 28 April, 2018, 04:29:45 PM
Some spoilers in Archie's report that I would rather not have read, no?

I'd expect spoilers, even inadvertent ones, in a review/discussion thread. I deliberately didn't read anything here until I'd seen the movie, although a kindly mod might want to add a 'SPOILER' warning to the thread title...?
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 28 April, 2018, 05:11:38 PM
Ay chihuahua! I won't bother you with my rock-solid theory as to how all this is resolved, aka what the hell[spoiler] Dr Strange[/spoiler] was playing at, but despite few dud moments  (Girl fight? Really?), this was an unbelievably audacious, and enjoyable, film. The realisation at the end that the next two (intervening) MCU flicks are flashbacks was fantastic - almost too cunning.

It cleverly gave most screen time and many of the best lines to the '[spoiler]doomed' characters (in the process often feeling more like GotG 3 than anything else), and neatly pared the cast back to the original Avengers for the next one, without looking like that was what it was doing. 
[/spoiler]

If I could have suggested a change (or rather, a reversion), it would have been to be clearer that this was a Part 1 - I suspect this 'surprise' will hurt WoM. Certainly my kids were less than enthused by the cliffhanger, whereas I was thrilled by it.

Cleverest bit: the way Wong was handled.
Dumbest bit: how many Wakandans [spoiler]had to die to in the place of Mr Data.[/spoiler]
Best character: Drax.
Most perplexing choice: including both [spoiler]the Gungan battle from TPM and the Lonely Mountain forge lighting scene from Desolation of Smaug[/spoiler] in the same climax.
Coolest prospect: the return of [spoiler]Red Skull[/spoiler].
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JOE SOAP on 28 April, 2018, 05:44:36 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 28 April, 2018, 05:11:38 PM
If I could suggest a change (or rather, a reversion), it would have been to be clearer that this was a Part 1 - I suspect this will hurt WoM. Certainly my kids were less than enthused by the cliffhanger, whereas I was thrilled by it.

Dunno, marketing issues aside with calling things Part 1 and Part 2 in recent years (and 18 parts all ready preceding it) I like that it is made as an inverted version of Avengers or the Thanos solo film [spoiler]where he is tested with choosing between a loved one and his mission; defeats his enemies at his own equivalent of the battle of New York, and then, after completeing his hero journey and achieving his life goal, wakes up the next morning smelling the roses – all's right again in his world.[/spoiler]

Splitting the cast up into clustered groups centred around [spoiler]individual stones/forging Thor's new happy-stick[/spoiler] provides an obvious but nifty structure to the whole thing and gives all the main characters their moment(s). I don't really get the criticisms of pacing. No scene seemed too long or too short and there was nowt confusion as to what was going on or were we were at anytime. It felt as effortless as the original Avengers.

QuoteCoolest prospect: the return of [spoiler]Red Skull[/spoiler].

Yes; I love how the decades in [spoiler]exile seem to have mellowed him – even though it wasn't Hugo Weaving doing the voice.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 28 April, 2018, 06:12:42 PM
Oh I did like the whole structure a lot, I just felt a more explicit To Be Continued... might have sat better with the more casual/younger audience than the prospect that our heroes screwed the pooch and that's that. Maybe a downer is easier to take if you know it's coming. But Thanos, a magnificent creation in every respect BTW, a great antidote to the usual heroic calculus, did warn us at the very beginning, and he's worth listening to.

Good point about recent marketing too. Been a while since Deathly Hallows Part 2 made such a splash.

Such massively long game these lads are playing.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 28 April, 2018, 07:16:01 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 28 April, 2018, 06:12:42 PM
Such massively long game these lads are playing.

If DC want to know where they're going wrong, it's the apparent belief that they can put out five movies of —ahem— variable quality, the best of which is probably equivalent to something in the top quarter of Marvel's output, and then think they can hint at a Justice League/Darkseid movie and leapfrog straight to where Marvel are now.

Marvel has spent ten years playing chess whilst DC is barely playing noughts-and-crosses.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 28 April, 2018, 07:18:26 PM
Load of pish in which there was a lot of noise but nothing happened.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 28 April, 2018, 07:19:29 PM
And, yes, I bloody loved this movie. My only real regret is that [spoiler]unless the hints at the end of GotG2 get realised way faster than I expected, Marvel is going to do their big Thanos storyline without Adam Warlock.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JOE SOAP on 28 April, 2018, 07:32:32 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 28 April, 2018, 07:16:01 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 28 April, 2018, 06:12:42 PM
Such massively long game these lads are playing.

Marvel has spent ten years playing chess whilst DC is barely playing noughts-and-crosses.

Marvel managed to make a more developed, dynamic character than any in the Justice League out of a feckin' cloak.


The only impediment to making a Justice League film first – like they had previously intended with George Miller – and for it to be entertaining enough to be successful, was the initial pretence that WB were all about making serious, important films, and then changing their minds half-way through production on the rest of their slate resulting in complete writer/director failure.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 28 April, 2018, 07:36:40 PM
As so often with MCU movies, I kept finding moments where I almost couldn't believe what I was seeing on the screen: it seemed to finally justify the existence of those endless crossover events, simply as vague inspiration for this.  Even Secret Wars 2 seemed to make a contribution!
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Link Prime on 28 April, 2018, 07:37:00 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 28 April, 2018, 07:19:29 PM
My only real regret is that

We didn't get a few belts of Led Zeppelin when Thor arrived with Stormbreaker.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 28 April, 2018, 07:47:13 PM
All reservations I have about this one, are probably entirely down to the cinema I saw it in and the audience I saw it with. You know how one of the complaints about 3D is that it's "projected darker" than the 2D equivalent? Well, this seemed to be projected for 3D despite seeing it in 2D. Great swathes of the film were a murk of greys and muted colours, which meant I couldn't work out what the sneck was going on, and even daylight scenes were darker than you'd expect. Even Wakanda seemed more a drizzly day on the Isle of Wight.
The audience found EVERY joke hilarious. I mean, really hilarious- meaning every line of dialogue following a gag was lost. Then halfway through they all decided to go and empty their bowels/ fill up again with nachos- five at a time.
As for the movie- no spoilers- it really did feel like the culmination of a decade of careful world building. Bearing in mind my kids (and by extension quite a lot of the audience) had never consciously known a time when these films didn't exist, there was a sense of great importance about the events playing out. Did it disappoint? Only in small, nerdy bits that anyone not versed in these characters would never even consider.

I will be going back to see it on a better screen one night this week, buying the dvd on release day, and watching it now and again for the rest of my life, probably.

Minor, yet joyous, spoiler: [spoiler]Groot providing the handle of Thor's new axe. Perfect.[/spoiler]

SBT
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 28 April, 2018, 08:02:59 PM
Quote from: radiator on 27 April, 2018, 04:42:30 PM
The glaring problem for me was that the non-stop pacing and the almost total lack of any non-superhuman characters in the movie made it all feel weirdly small scale and lacking in stakes and context.

I genuinely don't understand this. The film posits different stakes — this isn't about whether the heroes can save everyone, it's about whether they can save everyone including themselves. There are —what?— twenty-one superheroes in this movie (I think, excluding sidekicks), about half of which are currently supporting their own franchises and several of whom have had lead/major roles in four or five movies.

If you're not invested in them by this stage, fair enough, but this probably isn't the movie for you. I don't think you can argue, however, that Marvel hasn't put the effort in trying to get you invested in them.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JOE SOAP on 28 April, 2018, 08:04:39 PM
Quote from: Jim_Campbell on 28 April, 2018, 07:19:29 PM
My only real regret is that [spoiler]unless the hints at the end of GotG2 get realised way faster than I expected, Marvel is going to do their big Thanos storyline without Adam Warlock.[/spoiler]

Sorry, Jimbo.

Markus: Well, there are some in the original Infinity Gauntlet series that are-- Like, we didn't introduce Adam Warlock, because it's a massive backbend and you practically have to make an Adam Warlock movie to introduce him. He just can't walk onscreen. So, there was a brief moment where we were like, Ehhh..., and then we were like-- [He points to the movie's poster.] We have that many characters already! And then there were others we couldn't use. Like, Silver Surfer would have been useful, but we can't touch him. Currently.

https://www.etonline.com/avengers-infinity-war-nearly-included-adam-warlock-and-a-giant-fking-snake-exclusive-100952
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Steve Green on 28 April, 2018, 08:15:48 PM
Infinity Gauntlet needs a copyright sorting stone.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 28 April, 2018, 08:19:47 PM
I'll confess I'm not really that up on much that's happened in the Marvel (comic) universe in the last twenty years, so I probably missed a lot of geek nods... but I did get a little bit of a geek thrill seeing the crimson bands of Cyttorak...!
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Apestrife on 29 April, 2018, 08:02:19 AM
I'm not much of a Marvel-fan and managed to fall asleep and laughed for the wrong reason more than one time, but overall I quite enjoyed it. Best Marvel film I'v seen since Iron Man 3 (I also quite enjoyed GotG, CA:WS and T:R).

Went with some friends, and we were all on a different number of marvel movies seen. Everything from 3 up to each one (a million or something). Found it really interesting that it manages to both feel like a sequel, stand alone as well as prequel, while juggling I don't know how many characters in how many places. They really pulled that off. Nor my friends, or myself, felt unsure of why/what, or why a character was cool.

I it captured the feeling I had as young when thoroughly enjoying SW:RotJ or T2 (No, I'm not saying this one is up there with those) without having watched what came before.

Regardless what becomes of the second film (hope it doesn't undo too much of the [spoiler]damage[/spoiler], I think this one would work really well stand alone.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 29 April, 2018, 09:30:28 AM
My 8yr-old daughter came up with the most damning flaw yet:[spoiler] WHERE WERE THE RHINOS!?[/spoiler].  I did have to fight a genuine urge to shout 'Wakanda Forever!" at several points (and "Ouch time!" just the once), but she makes a good point (explanations that they had all been killed by the end of BP didn't find a welcoming harbour). 

Pleasing consequence of all this MCU stuff for me has been the ability to strut my (limited) knowledge of the source material both at home and at work (in addition to my own kids' generation, the low-mid-20-somethings really dig these movies).  I'm repeatedly outclassed in my Harry Potter knowledge (many of these youngish adults have their own wands, acquired as tw-/teenagers but still proudly retained, and can recount their own Sortings), but at least with the geneaologies and affiliations of Marvel superheroes I can hold my own over the tea-break table.  Wasted youth? Pshaw.

Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JamesC on 29 April, 2018, 11:18:31 AM
I thought it was great. I'm quite astonished at how good it was actually, considering all the threads they had to pull together. A shame about no Adam Warlock but I think Captain Marvel may fill the AW shaped hole in part 2.
Seeing all these characters on screen did help to define exactly which characters I do and do not care about. I think this may be a good opportunity to clear the decks of some of the second and third stringers, either by killing them off or by allowing them a retirement (much like what seems to have happened with Hawkeye). I honestly couldn't care less about Rhodes (3rd rate Iron Man), Falcon (just lame), Vision (charisma vacuum), Wanda (mopey dullard) or Winter Soldier (worked as a villain, doesn't work as a hero).
All in all it was bloody impressive. There was a metric ton of CGI though which I feel may not hold up too well in years to come, especially on Thanos unfortunately.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 29 April, 2018, 11:35:53 AM
I had thought the visual realisation of Thanos would probably disappoint, but in the event I thought it was pretty much flawless (dated original design aside).  As to JamesC's list of less-welcome second-stringers, you're totally wrong about Wanda, I could watch her for hours (although as her powers come from an Infinity Stone...), but more pertinently I'd think that keeping [spoiler]Hawkeye out of it was far from a quiet retirement[/spoiler], more a setup for a central role in Avengers 4.  As the human heart of the movie team, he's best placed to highlight the impact of [spoiler]Thanos' victory[/spoiler] - I wouldn't be surprised if the next one actually opens with[spoiler] his wife and/or kids >poofing< out of existence, and his initial efforts to navigate a ruined world[/spoiler]. 

I also suspect that the[spoiler] carbon-freezing removal of many of the rest of the guys JamesC mentions is actually to preserve them for future adventures, away from the more permanent transformations that are going to play out on the original Avengers in the next one[/spoiler]: that's where the other shoe is going to land.

Some questions I didn't feel were answered: what is Thanos, or rather what are the innate abilities of a Titan?  When did Iron Man become Green Lantern?  Why is Cumberpatch so relentlessly flat?  Did Vandar really get destroyed out of hand after all the efforts to save it in GotG1?

Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 29 April, 2018, 11:51:10 AM
"Xandar"
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: The Monarch on 29 April, 2018, 12:59:48 PM
to be fair in guardians 1 xandar kinda got buggered pretty badly a lot of the nova corps died and their defences got wrecked they were easy pickings for thanos and it was stupid to keep the stone with them. We already saw the near genocide of the last asgardians it may have been overkill to see it happen to xandar
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JamesC on 29 April, 2018, 01:16:58 PM
I think TB is probably right - I did wonder about Hawkeye. He's been as dull as dishwater in previous films so I hope if they use him, they use him well.
I'd love to know what's interesting about Wanda though, I must be missing something.
It seems inevitable that some of the big players will be bowing out of the MCU once contracts are up but I'd like to think the future lies in the direction of Spidey, Black Panther, Dr Strange, Ant Man and Wasp, Captain Marvel and (it's a long shot but I'd love it to happen) She Hulk. I can't see Wanda or Falcon taking a lead in anything.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Timothy on 29 April, 2018, 03:38:47 PM
I enjoyed it, but thought it was a little too space-based. I know that destroying New York is a little overused in MCU, but more earth-based action would have allowed for more civilian involvement which I think would have been a bonus.

Also disappointed that there was only the one secret ending.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Mardroid on 30 April, 2018, 03:15:39 AM
I really enjoyed it too, although I agree with previous comment that [spoiler]a few permanent deaths would be preferable to a multitude of temporary ones. It seems certain that someone is going to make use of that time stone and do a rewind, or some other such thing,[/spoiler]. Still, let's see how it pans out.

I think the only real issue I have with the film was that [spoiler]while it provided some genuinely amusing moments, Hulk is not a coward. Banner will fight but Hulk won't? I understand, Hulk is a powerhouse, and would probably beat each of Thanos's top warriors, so I guess they wanted him out of the picture for a while to raise the stakes, but I wish they'd found a way to do it that was in character. Sure, I can believe Thanos himself could beat him (which he did). But if he isn't rendered unconscious or killed outright, isn't he the type who would just keep coming?[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 30 April, 2018, 09:43:27 AM
I thought the idea of Thanos [spoiler]effortlessly kicking the ass of the Strongest One There Is and in the process reducing the bombastic Hulk to a frightened kid[/spoiler] was pretty inspired, leaving aside the plot advantages of holding back the big gun until the concluding part.  If the Hulk is driven by anger and passion and is essentially Banner's id given form, it makes sense that he could also be dominated by primal fear that Banner's superego is otherwise able to suppress.  I liked it!  Plus, y'know, performance issues/impotence jokes for the ladies.

As to civilian involvement, these were big parts of both Avengers 1 and 2, and even Civil War - I have no problem with this one shifting its focus fully to the vast and colourful spandex cast, apart from[spoiler] the end-credit scene[/spoiler].  Gotta make choices.  And again I suspect that there will be more attention paid to the impact of events on the ordinary joes of the universe next time, [spoiler]now the worst has actually happened[/spoiler].  Putting down a marker that the time gem [spoiler]will not be a big part of any solution, except possibly as part of the (now destroyed?) gauntlet itself[/spoiler].
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 30 April, 2018, 10:15:00 AM
The spoilerific "Who will make it out alive after Avengers 4?" speculation sub-thread:

[spoiler]Cap: one way or another is a cert to go — obviously, since Evans has said he's not doing it any more. His contribution the MCU is so (rightly) well thought of that I think the character will have to stay dead for a while before they can wormhole/alternate dimension/whatever in a re-cast Steve Rogers.

Thor: it seems fairly obvious to me that Thor's story is over. Plus he's now (rightly — I'm not suggesting this is a mistake) the by far the most powerful hero in the MCU. Of all the characters they might kill off, Thor would provide the most rounded, complete arc. Since he's a god, it's not a huge stretch to imagine that he might be reborn (and thus recast) a few years down the line.

Banner/Hulk: I'd actually be surprised if they kill off Banner. Ruffalo is good value and the legal wrangles that keep Hulk as a guest star in other movies mean that a continuing presence in the MCU wouldn't be too onerous a burden on the actor, plus he's not required to maintain a punishing physical regimen to play the role. Also, we're on our third Banner, so Ruffalo is probably the easiest to recast if they had to.

Stark/Iron Man: despite some hints/foreshadowing, I think they'll probably keep Stark around to provide a link to the early MCU big hitters. It's not difficult to imagine a lower-key Stark guesting in future MCU films as a mover/fixer/handy plot advancer. And, again, it's a less physically demanding role than Cap or Thor, so less taxing on the actor.

I think they'll probably want a couple of extra scalps to round out the bodycount. I suspect Hawkeye won't make it — I like him, but they've always struggled to find stuff for him to do. I also think they may write out Black Widow. If they're not going to give Johannson a solo movie, it may be time. If they need an analogue further down the line, they can always draft another ass-kicking female character from the comics, or even just introduce another Black Widow from the same training programme.

I'd be sorry, but not surprised, if Vision stays dead. He's never really managed to be more than a plot point, and he's also insanely powerful, to the degree that writers will constantly have to find ways around him.[/spoiler]

Ooh. This is fun! :-)
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JOE SOAP on 30 April, 2018, 11:14:15 AM
Quote from: Mardroid on 30 April, 2018, 03:15:39 AMI think the only real issue I have with the film was that [spoiler]while it provided some genuinely amusing moments, Hulk is not a coward. Banner will fight but Hulk won't? I understand, Hulk is a powerhouse, and would probably beat each of Thanos's top warriors, so I guess they wanted him out of the picture for a while to raise the stakes, but I wish they'd found a way to do it that was in character. Sure, I can believe Thanos himself could beat him (which he did). But if he isn't rendered unconscious or killed outright, isn't he the type who would just keep coming?[/spoiler]

I think it's a spot-on turn for the juvenile Hulk portrayed in Ragnarok: Hulk at this point is like a big show-off teenager who just got a whuppin' and won't leave his bedroom to come out and play with his friends - I get the impression Hulk is almost a separately defined alter-ego who could be slowly aging and maturing inside Banner; so we can look forward to mid-life crisis Hulk in the future.

Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 30 April, 2018, 11:41:29 AM
Responding to the Jim's spoilerific actuarial tables:

[spoiler]Cap: I'd be sorry to see him go, since there's loads of mileage left in the character, but it does seem contractually inevitable. As long as they don't sub in the persistently dull Bucky I could live with it (maybe the marginally less dull Sam Wilson instead?).

Hulk: never happen, he's too perfect an iteration, and just too much fun to have around.

Hawkeye: could go either way.

Thor: I suspect Thor will retire from heroing to re-found Asgard in the fresh pastures post-Infinity War universe. Maybe we could have the divine Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie instead.  No idea what the deal is with Loki.

Iron Man: it would be entirely apt for Tony to go out with a bang, but I suspect a final retirement for Iron Man and happily ever after for Tony and Pepper might play better.  As noted above, the nanobot version of Iron Man is now basically Green Lantern, apparently capable of creating anything on the fly, which takes away from his engineering roots and I imagine makes him hard to write around - not one "power at 25% and falling, boss" this time out either, I note.

Black Widow: can Nat retire?  I think she needs to go on, we haven't seen enough from her yet, and her relationships with Hulk and Hawkeye give a bit of heart to the team.

Vision: don't care one way or t'other.  Seems like a reasonably apt casualty to leave dead. 

Wanda: much as I enjoy watching Olsen on screen, is there much more for her to do, beyond some kind of a post-Vision Dark Phoenix/No More Mutants type deal?

Gamorra: really hope the soul gem exchange works two ways, way too good a character to lose from the most fun team of the whole MCU. Thanos is really her story, so it would be appropriate for this to be her actual end, but more than any other death I would hate to see her go.[/spoiler]

Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JamesC on 30 April, 2018, 11:54:40 AM
Whatever happens in the furture I think we need some sort of link to a higher authority / Earth government (be it SHIELD or whoever). Seems with Sam Jackson also at end of contract it has to be either Hawkeye, Black Widow, Rhodey, Sam Wilson or Captain Marvel.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Dandontdare on 30 April, 2018, 12:13:38 PM
Saw this yesterday and need to see it again (and again, and again), my head's still spinning. They've managed to pull off the almost impossible task of successfully juggling so many characters and plot threads without acres of exposition or confusion. Mainstream critics' biggest issue seems to be a) if you haven't seen the other MCU films, you wouldn't know who anyone is or what's going on; and b) they're shamelessly milking the franchise by not giving us a conclusion - the correct response to both being "well, DUH!"

Too many cool bits to mention - [spoiler]"we've got a Hulk", the banter between Quill and Stark, teenage Groot (I 'd had more than enough of cutesy baby Groot), Red Skull, the post credit teaser (shame it'll be Carole Danvers rather than the original Mar-vell, but still cool)[/spoiler]

Prize for the most bizarre accent of the year has to go to Peter Dinklage trying to do posh-mystical.

I agree that [spoiler]Dr Strange has some timey-wimey plot up his (wizard's) sleeve and that the "disappeared" characters will all come back - Loki and Vision seem pretty conclusively dead though.[/spoiler]

What a decade it's been - THAT's how you do it, DC!
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 30 April, 2018, 12:23:24 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 30 April, 2018, 11:41:29 AM
Responding to the Jim's spoilerific actuarial tables:

[spoiler]
Gamorra: really hope the soul gem exchange works two ways, way too good a character to lose from the most fun team of the whole MCU. Thanos is really her story, so it would be appropriate for this to be her actual end, but more than any other death I would hate to see her go.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Yeah. I think this is the one that worries me most, to my surprise. As you say, it's certainly appropriate to the story, but I'm not sure how GotG3 would play out without her.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JOE SOAP on 30 April, 2018, 12:59:16 PM


Not that it bothers me but I think Marvel will want to reverse the inevitable comments about [spoiler]'fridging' Gamorra[/spoiler].

Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: GordonR on 30 April, 2018, 02:04:25 PM
Quote from: JamesC on 30 April, 2018, 11:54:40 AM
Whatever happens in the furture I think we need some sort of link to a higher authority / Earth government (be it SHIELD or whoever). Seems with Sam Jackson also at end of contract it has to be either Hawkeye, Black Widow, Rhodey, Sam Wilson or Captain Marvel.

I think the clue there might have been the Captain Marvel star emblem on the device's screen...

Although Hawkeye - aka The Most Useless Avenger - would certainly be the guy to call in to save half the universe.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: radiator on 30 April, 2018, 05:10:11 PM
I'm pretty confident that [spoiler]Gamora is dead dead. The will they/won't they situation with Star Lord and her pretty much got resolved in this movie, and having a grief-stricken, bitter, washed up Quill in GotG3 has a lot more dramatic potential than having them be together. Plus, with Nebula and Mantis joining, the Guardians lineup was getting a bit too big by the end of Vol 2 - I suspect they'll want to mix things up a bit for the next one.[/spoiler]

Time for full on spoiler thread?
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: matty_ae on 30 April, 2018, 05:26:35 PM
According to BoxOfficeMojo, Avengers Infinity War made more money domestically in its first weekend than Justice League did in its entire run.

I think that is an astonishing feat that really shows how many more people wanted to see this movie rather than the DC equivalent.

Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 30 April, 2018, 05:31:38 PM
I didn't really see [spoiler]Gamorra's death as fridging in the classic sense, as it was her own actions (confronting Thanos, saving Nebula) and very much her own story of moral rebellion that brought her to her death - Peter's reactions were largely incidental, rather than being the point of her death (as they would be in classic fridging), and Thanos acted despite their relationship, even if it was his love for her that made the sacrifice possible[/spoiler].

I also think [spoiler]Gamorra is far more essential to the success of the GotG setup than any role as Peter's will-they-won't-they: she's the only sane one, despite her background, the rational foil for all the freaks and nutjobs around her - her frustration with her companions' buffoonery is what drives much of the humour, and much of the conflict. Seeing her gradually soften and even dance has been charming, and separate to her relationship with Peter, and I'd hate to see it end [/spoiler] I suppose Nebula could serve that function, but thus far her ongoing bitterness and endless snarling lumps her in with the rest. 
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Mattofthespurs on 30 April, 2018, 06:06:05 PM
Ant Man and Wasp and Captain Marvel (as hinted at) will, imo, add some deeper back story to all of this and provide a catalyst to the final Avengers movie.

It ain't over 'til it's over and it's at least 9 hours I reckon until it's over.

On the film itself...Too long. The editing between [spoiler]the two final battles[/spoiler] could, and possibly should, have been much tighter. Whilst I loved the opening 80 minutes I got a bit bored during the finale, or the finale to the finale.

The writing was way up there in the opening but lagged seriously at the end. I still enjoyed the film but I really think with a better editor (and less pandering to all the stars) it could have been much tighter. But that's just me (who thinks films are running far too long nowadays).

It was also quite jarring, and obvious, that this was a jigsaw film in the regards that we knew, from very early on, that some characters were filmed with others, and never the twain shall meet, which was a shame.

It did feel more like GotG 3 more than anything else, and that's not a bad thing as those were the best parts imo although I was disappointed they made Quill [spoiler]out to be the moron. Yeah, I know, but after taking the piss out of him for an hour it seemed churlish to have him fuck things up in that way[/spoiler]

All minor complaints I have to add. To see these characters over something like 15 films has been a joy I never thought I would see. 7/10 for me.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 30 April, 2018, 06:34:21 PM
Quote from: Mattofthespurs on 30 April, 2018, 06:06:05 PM
It did feel more like GotG 3 more than anything else, and that's not a bad thing as those were the best parts imo although I was disappointed they made Quill [spoiler]out to be the moron. Yeah, I know, but after taking the piss out of him for an hour it seemed churlish to have him fuck things up in that way[/spoiler]

Did it [spoiler]make him out to be a moron though[/spoiler]?  His plan was[spoiler] really excellent, despite all the mockery, he just (understandably) lost his cool at the last minute.  Given that Dr Strange endorsed it, both the plan and the cock-up must have been part of the 1-in-14-million sequence of events that would result in [/spoiler]Thanos' ultimate defeat. 
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: radiator on 30 April, 2018, 06:41:15 PM
I think I missed this bit when I ducked out to go to the toilet (it's a loooong film), but what was the deal with [spoiler]Gamora? Why did she want Star Lord to kill her? And why did she agree to help Thanos get the souls tone thingy (surely not just to save Nebula)?[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: radiator on 30 April, 2018, 06:55:22 PM
Also, Bob Mortimer (of all people) seemingly let slip a bit of Marvel related news in the latest Adam Buxton podcast - that British director Ben Wheatley (Sightseers, High Rise, A Field in England) has been offered a Marvel movie.

It was unclear whether or not he has accepted, but he's exactly the kind of director that Marvel would go after imo, so it's not surprising.

This is news, right? Wonder what the project in question is - to my mind all future MCU movies on the current slate have directors attached. Wonder if this is anything to do with the rumours about an Eternals(?) movie?
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 30 April, 2018, 07:05:31 PM
Quote from: radiator on 30 April, 2018, 06:41:15 PM
I think I missed this bit when I ducked out to go to the toilet (it's a loooong film), but what was the deal with [spoiler]Gamora? Why did she want Star Lord to kill her? And why did she agree to help Thanos get the souls tone thingy (surely not just to save Nebula)?[/spoiler]

Gamora [spoiler]wanted Peter to kill her so that she wouldn't be forced to reveal that she knew the location of the Soul Stone. 

She did indeed give Thanos its location in order to save Nebula.  Given that in GotG2 she had been made aware of her responsibility for Nebula's earlier torments, this is perhaps understandable.  She may have held out some hope that Thanos wouldn't be able to gain the stone anyway, if she had any knowledge of how it was protected, or she may have realised that he could have extracted enough hints from Nebula's memories anyway.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JamesC on 30 April, 2018, 07:41:58 PM
Quote from: radiator on 30 April, 2018, 06:55:22 PM
Also, Bob Mortimer (of all people) seemingly let slip a bit of Marvel related news in the latest Adam Buxton podcast - that British director Ben Wheatley (Sightseers, High Rise, A Field in England) has been offered a Marvel movie.

It was unclear whether or not he has accepted, but he's exactly the kind of director that Marvel would go after imo, so it's not surprising.

This is news, right? Wonder what the project in question is - to my mind all future MCU movies on the current slate have directors attached. Wonder if this is anything to do with the rumours about an Eternals(?) movie?

There's been a lot of talk about something Moon Knight related but I got the impression it was more likely to be a TV thing. If they went for the darker side of Moon Knight and explored all the multiple personality and ancient god stuff I could see it fitting with Wheatley's style.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JOE SOAP on 30 April, 2018, 09:57:05 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 30 April, 2018, 05:31:38 PM
I didn't really see [spoiler]Gamorra's death as fridging in the classic sense[/spoiler]

Neither do I, but there are plenty who'll make the case anyway, I'm sure.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Mattofthespurs on 01 May, 2018, 08:23:49 AM
I do think this is going to be a film that will work better in hindsight.

After all, we have only seen half of it.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 01 May, 2018, 12:42:04 PM
(Spoiler tags ditched for this bit, because it's not directly related to Infinity War...)

Quote from: TordelBack on 30 April, 2018, 11:41:29 AM
Responding to the Jim's spoilerific actuarial tables:

Black Widow: can Nat retire?  I think she needs to go on, we haven't seen enough from her yet, and her relationships with Hulk and Hawkeye give a bit of heart to the team.

Well, this is interesting. (https://filmschoolrejects.com/marvel-has-met-with-multiple-female-directors-for-black-widow/)

Although there's no reason why a Black Widow movie would have to be set post-Avengers 3/4, so I'm not going to read too much into it with respect to the outcome of those movies.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Mardroid on 01 May, 2018, 05:11:31 PM
I got an email today from a company I've ordered a phone from in the past. One of their many advertisment emails trying to sell me stuff:

[Spoiler]BEST OF BRANDS SALE | More Prices Fall Than Infinity War Heroes[/spoiler]

I found it amusing, but thank goodness I watched the film Sunday, eh?
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Apestrife on 01 May, 2018, 09:00:40 PM
So, anyone figured out a viewing order?

Mine's Iron Man 3, Thor Ragnarök and Infinity war (probably skipping part 2). A bit more personal films, for all three of the T:s. Tony, Thor and Thanos  :P
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 01 May, 2018, 11:58:41 PM
I enjoyed that very much. Probably the best part for me was the post-credits scene, not for its content but because I've never heard a cinema audience actually gasp before!

Great stuff.

Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: DaveGYNWA on 02 May, 2018, 12:52:59 AM
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 01 May, 2018, 11:58:41 PM
I enjoyed that very much. Probably the best part for me was the post-credits scene, not for its content but because I've never heard a cinema audience actually gasp before!

Great stuff.

I've never heard a cinema audience so quiet while I giggled myself silly at that  :lol:

Went with my wife and 2 kids
[spoiler](2 girls, near 8 year old who loves Star Lord and had prepared herself for some deaths already and a 9 year old who idolises Gamora and wasn't prepared at all) at the weekend and for the first time in ages I went in spoiler free and I bloody loved it.[/spoiler]

Had a grin on my face pretty much all the way through, and when the credits went up I asked the others "Did you enjoy that?"....wrong question to ask as all 3 just went (paraphrasing) "NO!!!! How could you enjoy that???!!"

Just listening to my girls discussing how things are going to sort themselves out, without them having any comic influence and just going on what they have seen in the films, is an absolute joy....they have picked up so much with these movies, and my eldest has come up with a cracking Ant-Man and the Wasp + Captain Marvel theory.

IW is, right now, exactly what the 8 year old me imagined was possible when I got a stack of 'old' Marvel comics back in 1982. Just absolutely loved it, and I cannot wait to see it again.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 02 May, 2018, 08:17:29 AM
I really wonder if I saw the same film. No plot, no drama, no tension - just two and a bit hours of fighting.

The plot hasn't advanced to any extent. Thanos gets the stones and uses them. The end.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 02 May, 2018, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 02 May, 2018, 08:17:29 AM
..just two and a bit hours of fighting.

Soooo, just infinite war then...?   ;)

And maybe there's a leeeetle bit of drama in the bit[spoiler] where the arrogant over-king, convinced of his own destiny, bargains with the universe by sacrificing his beloved daughter to achieve his oh-so righteous aims[/spoiler]? Euripides seemed to think so.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 02 May, 2018, 09:45:49 AM
Quote from: TordelBack on 02 May, 2018, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 02 May, 2018, 08:17:29 AM
..just two and a bit hours of fighting.

Soooo, just infinite war then...?   ;)

And maybe there's a leeeetle bit of drama in the bit[spoiler] where the arrogant over-king, convinced of his own destiny, bargains with the universe by sacrificing his beloved daughter to achieve his oh-so righteous aims[/spoiler]? Euripides seemed to think so.

That bit was good but interesting to note what difference the Avengers made to Thanos' plan, like Indiana Jones in Raiders of the Lost Ark the answer appears to be very little.
Although I'm guessing [spoiler]that Stephen Strange is playing the long game and he knows who or what Tony Stark will need to sacrifice in the next movie to set the universe to rights again.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: matty_ae on 02 May, 2018, 10:55:39 AM
I think that it is very significant [spoiler]who got left alive[/spoiler]

The fact it consisted of[spoiler] Iron Man, Thor and Cap[/spoiler] to me makes it likely that however the [spoiler]reversal[/spoiler] takes place, it will require some sort of [spoiler]exchange[/spoiler] of the [spoiler]lives of the old guard[/spoiler] to [spoiler]reinstate the new Avengers team of Spiderman, Black Panther, Iron Patriot, Winter Soldier etc.[/spoiler]

I agree with Eamonn that ultimately [spoiler]they make no material difference to Thanos' Plan[/spoiler] except that [spoiler]Spidey gets promoted, heroes meet[/spoiler] and [spoiler]Gamora[/spoiler] shows love for her [spoiler]sister which must be re-paid[/spoiler] in some dramatic sense
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 02 May, 2018, 03:22:19 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 02 May, 2018, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 02 May, 2018, 08:17:29 AM
..just two and a bit hours of fighting.

Soooo, just infinite war then...?   ;)

And maybe there's a leeeetle bit of drama in the bit[spoiler] where the arrogant over-king, convinced of his own destiny, bargains with the universe by sacrificing his beloved daughter to achieve his oh-so righteous aims[/spoiler]? Euripides seemed to think so.

Bah. Classics.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: I, Cosh on 02 May, 2018, 04:12:35 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 02 May, 2018, 09:19:52 AM
Quote from: The Enigmatic Dr X on 02 May, 2018, 08:17:29 AM
..just two and a bit hours of fighting.

Soooo, just infinite war then...?   ;)

And maybe there's a leeeetle bit of drama in the bit[spoiler] where the arrogant over-king, convinced of his own destiny, bargains with the universe by sacrificing his beloved daughter to achieve his oh-so righteous aims[/spoiler]? Euripides seemed to think so.

But what does his brother Ken Trousers think?
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 02 May, 2018, 05:15:22 PM
[spoiler]I think I must have missed a couple of things at the end. Firstly, how did Stark recover so quickly from being impaled and, second, how did Banner extricate himself from the rock face?[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Dandontdare on 02 May, 2018, 05:23:57 PM
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 02 May, 2018, 05:15:22 PM
[spoiler]I think I must have missed a couple of things at the end. Firstly, how did Stark recover so quickly from being impaled and, second, how did Banner extricate himself from the rock face?[/spoiler]

[spoiler]we see Stark applying some sort of gizmo to the wound, rather like the one that we see in Dredd. Can't recall the other[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 02 May, 2018, 05:27:47 PM
Ah yes, I remember that bit now - thanks, DDD!

Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 02 May, 2018, 08:47:58 PM
Quote from: matty_ae on 02 May, 2018, 10:55:39 AM
I think that it is very significant [spoiler]who got left alive[/spoiler]

The fact it consisted of[spoiler] Iron Man, Thor and Cap[/spoiler] to me makes it likely that however the [spoiler]reversal[/spoiler] takes place, it will require some sort of [spoiler]exchange[/spoiler] of the [spoiler]lives of the old guard[/spoiler] to [spoiler]reinstate the new Avengers team of Spiderman, Black Panther, Iron Patriot, Winter Soldier etc.[/spoiler]

Wild (and some informed) speculation:
[spoiler]Dr Strange knows Tony Stark has to be alive for the endgame as he will need to wear the Infinity Gauntlet.
The Tony Steve civil war didn't get resolved in Infinity War, they didn't even meet up.
So they put their differences behind them in A4 and Tony gives his father's shield back to Cap, possibly leading to the broken shield moment from his Ultron vision.
This time with the help of Captain Marvel (and with the Hulk managing to super-man up) they manage to beat Thanos and get the gauntlet off him.
But for Iron Man to wield it he'll need to sacrifice a loved one to control the soul stone.
We know Chris Evans is done after A4 so Cap sacrifices himself rather than have Tony pick between Pepper, Rhodey, Happy, or even Tony himself?
Tearful Tony dons the gauntlet and does the finger pans and all the Ashes turn back into people, many of them with their own hugely successful franchises to support.
In the aftermath Tony makes or repairs a shield and hands it to Bucky Barnes, the new Captain America.
[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: DaveGYNWA on 02 May, 2018, 09:21:00 PM
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 02 May, 2018, 05:15:22 PM
[spoiler]I think I must have missed a couple of things at the end. Firstly, how did Stark recover so quickly from being impaled and, second, how did Banner extricate himself from the rock face?[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Banner in the rock face was due to the reality stone - Thanos sods off, reality restored (ref. the scene where Thanos 'chops up' Drax and Mantis, and the effect wears off when Thanos sods off)[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 02 May, 2018, 09:25:17 PM
Fair enough, thanks, Dave.

Colour me satisfied :)

Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Woolly on 02 May, 2018, 09:28:09 PM
Quote from: Eamonn Clarke on 02 May, 2018, 08:47:58 PM
Quote from: matty_ae on 02 May, 2018, 10:55:39 AM
I think that it is very significant [spoiler]who got left alive[/spoiler]

The fact it consisted of[spoiler] Iron Man, Thor and Cap[/spoiler] to me makes it likely that however the [spoiler]reversal[/spoiler] takes place, it will require some sort of [spoiler]exchange[/spoiler] of the [spoiler]lives of the old guard[/spoiler] to [spoiler]reinstate the new Avengers team of Spiderman, Black Panther, Iron Patriot, Winter Soldier etc.[/spoiler]

Wild (and some informed) speculation:
[spoiler]Dr Strange knows Tony Stark has to be alive for the endgame as he will need to wear the Infinity Gauntlet.
The Tony Steve civil war didn't get resolved in Infinity War, they didn't even meet up.
So they put their differences behind them in A4 and Tony gives his father's shield back to Cap, possibly leading to the broken shield moment from his Ultron vision.
This time with the help of Captain Marvel (and with the Hulk managing to super-man up) they manage to beat Thanos and get the gauntlet off him.
But for Iron Man to wield it he'll need to sacrifice a loved one to control the soul stone.
We know Chris Evans is done after A4 so Cap sacrifices himself rather than have Tony pick between Pepper, Rhodey, Happy, or even Tony himself?
Tearful Tony dons the gauntlet and does the finger pans and all the Ashes turn back into people, many of them with their own hugely successful franchises to support.
In the aftermath Tony makes or repairs a shield and hands it to Bucky Barnes, the new Captain America.
[/spoiler]

[spoiler]I'm fairly certain there was a quick shot of the gauntlet looking fucked after Thanos clicked his fingers, but I may be wrong...[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 02 May, 2018, 10:23:14 PM
Quote from: Woolly on 02 May, 2018, 09:28:09 PM
[spoiler]I'm fairly certain there was a quick shot of the gauntlet looking fucked after Thanos clicked his fingers, but I may be wrong...[/spoiler]

You're not wrong.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 03 May, 2018, 05:53:55 AM
Quote from: I, Cosh on 02 May, 2018, 04:12:35 PM
But what does his brother Ken Trousers think?

The Old Ones are the best.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: DaveGYNWA on 03 May, 2018, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: Woolly on 02 May, 2018, 09:28:09 PM
[spoiler]I'm fairly certain there was a quick shot of the gauntlet looking fucked after Thanos clicked his fingers, but I may be wrong...[/spoiler]

[spoiler]You're not wrong at all - the gauntlet is borked. The condition of the stones? Not clear.

This is what my eldest pointed out to me when I was saying that the time stone will help them get out of this mess.

That's when she casually mentions the quantum realm, and AntMan & the Wasp heading there, and all that.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 03 May, 2018, 03:15:09 PM
Isn't this so much fun, though?  I'm having these conversations everywhere, with my kids, colleagues, friends, weirdies on the internet, all puzzling through the most inconsequential of comicky things ([spoiler]seriously, what we're talking about here is whether the Eye of Agamatto can be used to resurrect Black Panther![/spoiler]), the way I would only ever have done with 2 or 3 close mates back when I was a Marvel head (mid '80s).  This must be what it's like to a follow a popular soap/sports team!
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: IndigoPrime on 03 May, 2018, 03:34:30 PM
I feel a bit like the grumpy old bastard now, having read this thread after seeing the film with Mrs IP this morning (while mini-IP was at pre-school). I thought it was fine, but it just didn't click for me. I didn't feel invested, and the entire thing feels set up for a big ol' reset switch in the direct sequel. After all, when you see [spoiler]a load of characters vanish into ash, several of which already have films on the slate[/spoiler], you know there's about the same level of permanence as in the comics.

Really, the only question for me is [spoiler]Gamora, and I hope she comes back, because this universe is still lacking in women. As my wife noted, it was about 20 minutes before we really saw one do anything. Still, she's already confirmed for the sequel, and the suggestion is that GOTG3 is in some way 'her' story[/spoiler].

Honestly, I thought the logic was better than in many superhero flicks, but the scripting wasn't. When you play a trick lilke "[spoiler]person has to off someone they love[/spoiler]" once, fine, but it doesn't have the impact multiple times. And the bit where [spoiler]Quill fucks everything up[/spoiler] seemed so contrived, and would have been much better dealt with in another way.

So I admire the scope of these films, but that's two in a row that haven't properly landed for me, after two that did (Homecoming; Ragnarok). Honestly, I've not been keen on phase 3 on the whole anyway (Civil War was OK; I found Strange boring; GOTG was weirdly flat; Black Panther was great for diversity but formulaic to the point I guessed every beat), and so I'm dropping my expectations accordingly (yet will probably still watch all of them – perhaps on rental now though, because 25 quid plus per film is getting a wee bit pricey).
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Mattofthespurs on 03 May, 2018, 03:50:27 PM
The only thing I will add is that it seems many films that are on the slate are set before Infinity War.
Ant Man and Wasp and the other one I mentioned (damn you old age and laziness) certainly are.

No reason GotG 3 couldn't be. But I hope she comes back.

And if you have read the original Infinity Gauntlet then you may agree that so far, bar Thanos' reasoning for doing what he does, it's followed it fairly straight forwardly.

Could be that the films do to. Which would certainly imply that GotG 3 would be set before Infinity War ([spoiler]Just because of Adam Warlock[/spoiler])
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: IndigoPrime on 03 May, 2018, 04:08:03 PM
Perhaps. But then – so far – Marvel has suggested that the end of Phase 3 is the end of that chunk of the MCU, and we're only getting two films before that (Ant Man and the Wasp, and I Wish It Was The Other Character With Marvel In Her Name). It'd be a bit weird if GOTG3, released in 2020, is set before a film that showed up two years beforehand. Although, who knows? Perhaps they're going to bounce all over the place now.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 03 May, 2018, 04:46:42 PM

IV, V, VI, I, II, III, VII, IIIb, VIII, I-?, IX...

Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Mattofthespurs on 03 May, 2018, 05:11:39 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 03 May, 2018, 04:08:03 PM
Perhaps. But then – so far – Marvel has suggested that the end of Phase 3 is the end of that chunk of the MCU, and we're only getting two films before that (Ant Man and the Wasp, and I Wish It Was The Other Character With Marvel In Her Name). It'd be a bit weird if GOTG3, released in 2020, is set before a film that showed up two years beforehand. Although, who knows? Perhaps they're going to bounce all over the place now.

That is in fact the way I am reading it. In the BIG build up to Avengers 4.

But what the fuck do I know no need to answer that. We all know the answer. Smart Arse
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 03 May, 2018, 05:43:10 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 03 May, 2018, 03:34:30 PMI didn't feel invested, and the entire thing feels set up for a big ol' reset switch in the direct sequel. After all, when you see [spoiler]a load of characters vanish into ash, several of which already have films on the slate[/spoiler], you know there's about the same level of permanence as in the comics.

But wasn't that the point of [spoiler]using those particular characters, and so many of them[/spoiler]?  So that it was clear to the audience that it wasn't permanent, that the ending wasn't "[spoiler]oh no, they're all dead forever!" but rather "holy feck, how are they going to fix all this in the next one!"[/spoiler], and even, "wait, what about the other non-disintegrated deaths?".  A proper cliffhanger, in other words.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: DaveGYNWA on 03 May, 2018, 05:51:51 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 03 May, 2018, 03:15:09 PM
Isn't this so much fun, though?  I'm having these conversations everywhere, with my kids, colleagues, friends, weirdies on the internet, all puzzling through the most inconsequential of comicky things....

I've just finished a 2-day onsite consultancy up in London. After our customary "good morning, please to meet you" yesterday morning, the first question that was asked of me wasn't anything to do with what I was there for but was "So...have you seen Infinity War yet?"  :lol:
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: IndigoPrime on 03 May, 2018, 07:18:50 PM
TordelBack: fair point. But the showing I was at still resulted in a bunch of nippers leaving distraught (because they don't get that), and me thinking: which button will they press to reset all this to something resembling the status quo?

Oh, and I forgot one other bugbear: [spoiler]enough already of the millions-strong armies of faceless monsters the heroes can merrily dispatch[/spoiler]. It's become a cliche, and it's getting old.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Professor Bear on 03 May, 2018, 11:38:43 PM
Is the one future where the heroes win the one where Dr Strange tells Quill to [spoiler]put his earphones on when they've just about got Thanos' gauntlet off?  Come to think of it, why didn't he just tell Quill ahead of time that Gamora was dead so he wouldn't fuck things up in the home stretch?[/spoiler]

Finally got around to seeing this, and it was great fun.  After the disappointment of Last Jedi, it's good to see an event movie deliver thematic consistency and not sacrifice tension to wisecracks or second-guessing its audience, though I did laugh at Peter Dinklage's giant "dwarf" because it looked just like Mickey Rooney in that Twilight Zone episode, and also because the giant forge thing where the dwarf works is an Armillary Sphere like in the opening titles of Game Of Thrones.  People mentioned the Hobbit films as a point of reference to these scenes, too, though I still haven't managed to make it through the first one of those, so I'll take y'all words for it.
Much better than Ultron, if nothing else.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JOE SOAP on 03 May, 2018, 11:49:04 PM
Quote from: Professor Bear on 03 May, 2018, 11:38:43 PM
People mentioned the Hobbit films as a point of reference to these scenes, too, though I still haven't managed to make it through the first one of those, so I'll take y'all words for it.

The Hobbit is only notable for it's bad CGI gold.

Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: blackmocco on 04 May, 2018, 12:09:06 AM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 03 May, 2018, 07:18:50 PM
Oh, and I forgot one other bugbear: [spoiler]enough already of the millions-strong armies of faceless monsters the heroes can merrily dispatch[/spoiler]. It's become a cliche, and it's getting old.

Am I alone in thinking [spoiler]the hordes of Thanos looked somewhat familiar...? The eyes, the mouth, the tongue, and all conveniently covered in some sort of goo that was doing its best to obscure a white symbol on their black bodies? I'll posit my theory here: the Spidey symbiote has its movie origin. Wouldn't have thought anything much but the Venom trailer showed before Avengers and I'm assuming the symbiotes ol' Tom is investigating are going to be specimens taken from the Wakanda battlefield.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: GordonR on 04 May, 2018, 07:22:54 AM
Quote from: blackmocco on 04 May, 2018, 12:09:06 AM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 03 May, 2018, 07:18:50 PM
Oh, and I forgot one other bugbear: [spoiler]enough already of the millions-strong armies of faceless monsters the heroes can merrily dispatch[/spoiler]. It's become a cliche, and it's getting old.

Am I alone in thinking [spoiler]the hordes of Thanos looked somewhat familiar...? The eyes, the mouth, the tongue, and all conveniently covered in some sort of goo that was doing its best to obscure a white symbol on their black bodies? I'll posit my theory here: the Spidey symbiote has its movie origin. Wouldn't have thought anything much but the Venom trailer showed before Avengers and I'm assuming the symbiotes ol' Tom is investigating are going to be specimens taken from the Wakanda battlefield.[/spoiler]

Venom isn't a Marvel Studios film.  It's Sony, who still have the Spider-Man rights.  While the deal between the studios means the Venom movie can be in the Spider-Man Homecoming universe, I very much doubt it'll connect into something as core MCU as Infinity War.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Bolt-01 on 04 May, 2018, 09:34:33 AM
But it is a bloody good idea.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JOE SOAP on 04 May, 2018, 09:54:11 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDMPlkgXcAAGz5c?format=jpg)
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: blackmocco on 04 May, 2018, 02:58:46 PM
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 04 May, 2018, 09:54:11 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DDMPlkgXcAAGz5c?format=jpg)

I know it's probably not the case. It was and is, obviously, just a theory. Nonetheless, rumours abound Holland is in Venom in some capacity as Spidey after being spotted on set and they're going to need to explain the symbiote's appearance SOMEhow. If they're still sticking to intergalactic origins, seems like a very easy way to lay it out.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JOE SOAP on 04 May, 2018, 05:50:35 PM
I don't know the timeline of Venom but if MCU Spider-Man (Tom Holland) is supposed to be in some way in this or connected to it, it would cause a problem for Marvel since in the MCU Peter Parker is currently a pile of ash and half the universe has been raptured. Venom is released this October – 6 months before Avengers 4 – so for Sony the easiest option would be to sell Venom as pre-Infinity War, if they can even use the MCU as part of their marketing, but I think connecting it to the MCU causes more problems for Marvel they'd rather not have.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: The Legendary Shark on 04 May, 2018, 07:06:46 PM


I'm looking forward to Deadpool 2.

Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Woolly on 04 May, 2018, 08:17:49 PM
Quote from: DaveGYNWA on 03 May, 2018, 02:14:22 PM
Quote from: Woolly on 02 May, 2018, 09:28:09 PM
[spoiler]I'm fairly certain there was a quick shot of the gauntlet looking fucked after Thanos clicked his fingers, but I may be wrong...[/spoiler]

[spoiler]You're not wrong at all - the gauntlet is borked. The condition of the stones? Not clear.

This is what my eldest pointed out to me when I was saying that the time stone will help them get out of this mess.

That's when she casually mentions the quantum realm, and AntMan & the Wasp heading there, and all that.[/spoiler]

[spoiler]Just had another viewing - yes, the gauntlet does looked fucked, but Thanos still then uses it to bog off back to wherever. The gauntlet (and indeed the stones) might not be out of the game just yet![/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Dandontdare on 04 May, 2018, 09:03:11 PM
From the Venom trailer it doesn't look like there's any Spidey involvement at all, they've made him a stand-alone character  Have I missed any hints or Easter eggs that actually link this movie to Spider-Man?
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: DaveGYNWA on 04 May, 2018, 10:25:26 PM
Quote from: The Legendary Shark on 04 May, 2018, 07:06:46 PM
I'm looking forward to Deadpool 2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CX11yw6YL1w
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JOE SOAP on 05 May, 2018, 05:23:35 PM
Quote from: Dandontdare on 04 May, 2018, 09:03:11 PM
From the Venom trailer it doesn't look like there's any Spidey involvement at all, they've made him a stand-alone character  Have I missed any hints or Easter eggs that actually link this movie to Spider-Man?


According to a recent Q&A with Joe Russo, Venom is not in the MCU.

Student: "I have two- is the new Venom movie going to be in the MCU?"

Russo: "No that's a Sony property"


https://lrmonline.com/news/joe-russo-confirms-sonys-venom-movie-is-not-a-part-of-the-mcu/
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: radiator on 05 May, 2018, 06:39:22 PM
QuoteI don't know the timeline of Venom but if MCU Spider-Man (Tom Holland) is supposed to be in some way in this or connected to it, it would cause a problem for Marvel since in the MCU Peter Parker is currently a pile of ash and half the universe has been raptured. Venom is released this October – 6 months before Avengers 4 – so for Sony the easiest option would be to sell Venom as pre-Infinity War, if they can even use the MCU as part of their marketing, but I think connecting it to the MCU causes more problems for Marvel they'd rather not have.

I would have assumed that the Sony Spider-movies would be entirely separate from the MCU, but rumours persist of a Tom Holland cameo in Venom, and interestingly, I saw a teaser for their animated movie 'Enter the Spider-verse' on instagram yesterday that was clearly trying to tie in to Infinity War (explicitly mentioning the fact that [spoiler]Peter Parker is dead, and Miles Morales is the new Spider-Man[/spoiler]).

My guess is that the Sony films aren't officially part of the MCU, but will try to make out like they are without infringing on copyright?
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Frank on 06 May, 2018, 01:32:56 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/XO70s90.png?4) (https://i.imgur.com/3as443C.png?2)

'There are too many people and not enough resources; maybe if we got rid of some of the people ... he's even purpl£!'

2000ad superfans DJ Food (http://www.djfood.org/the-other-side-of-henry-flint/) and Andrew Harrison (https://i.imgur.com/9XPS65u.png) on the Bigmouth pop culture podcast, discussing whether Infinity means infinity:

https://audioboom.com/posts/6841890-podcast-102-infinity-war-with-spoilers-janelle-monae-hbo-s-barry-too-slow-to-disco-brasil


Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Greg M. on 07 May, 2018, 04:43:24 PM
Late to the party (only just saw it today), but it takes a lot of cojones to do an Avengers movie [spoiler]that doesn't actually feature the Avengers. (I mean, they're in it individually, but not as an actual cohesive team. Tony and Steve don't even meet for the entire film.)[/spoiler] I'd had plenty of spoilers before seeing it (I'm a school teacher, unless I experience a big pop culture event on the day it occurs, I've no chance of an unspoilered existence) but the appearance of [spoiler]the Red Skull [/spoiler]was still a real jolt. Minor criticism - not enough [spoiler]Steve Rogers. To me, that man is the heart of the franchise - I suspect we'll see a lot more of him (including his certain demise) in the next one.[/spoiler]
Best moment - [spoiler]Rocket's designs on Bucky's arm.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: IndigoPrime on 07 May, 2018, 07:34:45 PM
I dunno. I suspect the first point might feel weird to a comics reader, but I suspect most movie goers won't realise to any great extent. As for Rocket Racoon, he's been really great in the MCU, although his voice sounded off in this one.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: radiator on 07 May, 2018, 07:49:24 PM
Isn't the lineup of Scarlet Witch, Cap, Vision and Falcon (that we see teased at the end of Age of Ultron and in action at the beginning of Civil War) essentially Avengers 2.0?
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Greg M. on 07 May, 2018, 08:14:37 PM
I haven't watched Civil War in a while, but isn't the Avengers as a team effectively defunct after that? Certainly Cap's lot are ex-members: my perspective may be clouded by knowledge of the typical status quo for the comic book team, but if there is still a legitimate Avengers, it's presumably the government-sanctioned pro-Sokovia Accords people. None of this is a criticism, and I may be misremembering details - I just find it interesting that there isn't an actual 'official' Avengers team in the film beyond [spoiler]Iron Man and Spidey.[/spoiler]
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Tiplodocus on 08 May, 2018, 12:58:22 AM
Quite enjoyed that. Sure it's pretty much one big action piece but thinking of it as finale to a 40+ hour mini series helped me rationalise that. Minor quibbles:
- not enough Cap
- too much Guardians (didn't like GOTG2)
- Didn't buy it when that character gave up the soul stone
- overpowered Iron Man (Green Lantern was my first thought too)

I had thought a resolution might involve nanotechnology as the scratch was explicitly mentioned but then realised it wasn't going to resolve in this movie; had forgotten it was two parter.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: JOE SOAP on 08 May, 2018, 01:13:02 AM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 08 May, 2018, 12:58:22 AM
- Didn't buy it when that character gave up the soul stone

No one gave up the soul stone; it required a sacrifice to obtain it. [spoiler]Red Skull (now unemployed)[/spoiler] was a mere guide to seekers.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Tiplodocus on 08 May, 2018, 09:29:35 AM
Gave up the location of the soul stone is what I meant. I know the pressure the character was under and how they felt guilt at treatment of other character but, given that ten minutes previously they had been willing to sacrifice themselves, I didn't entirely buy it.

It did fit with the general theme of sacrifice actually being pretty hard to follow through on though, I guess.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Pyroxian on 08 May, 2018, 09:52:40 AM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 08 May, 2018, 09:29:35 AM
...given that ten minutes previously they had been willing to sacrifice themselves, I didn't entirely buy it.

Surely they wanted to be sacrificed as they knew they wouldn't be able to resist Thanos?
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Tiplodocus on 08 May, 2018, 12:16:15 PM
Gave up the location of the soul stone is what I meant. I know the pressure the character was under and how they felt guilt at treatment of other character but, given that ten minutes previously they had been willing to sacrifice themselves, I didn't entirely buy it.

It did fit with the general theme of sacrifice actually being pretty hard to follow through on though, I guess.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Tiplodocus on 08 May, 2018, 12:19:09 PM
Sorry for double post. 

Anyway it was minor quibble for me. Other people saw it differently.  I'm not going to start a petition saying the film is removed from canon because of it.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 08 May, 2018, 01:22:17 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 08 May, 2018, 12:16:15 PM
Gave up the location of the soul stone is what I meant. I know the pressure the character was under and how they felt guilt at treatment of other character but, given that ten minutes previously they had been willing to sacrifice themselves, I didn't entirely buy it.

I didn't buy it initially meself, but reflecting on what passed between them in GotG2, that[spoiler] as children Gamora never once allowed herself to lose to spare Nebula her punishment[/spoiler], I took it that this was the time that she finally chose her sister over all.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Tiplodocus on 08 May, 2018, 10:10:06 PM
I'm going to the cinema to see it again but pretend I hate it so I can amplify every tiny little plot inconsistency in my mind.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: TordelBack on 08 May, 2018, 10:38:25 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 08 May, 2018, 10:10:06 PM
I'm going to the cinema to see it again but pretend I hate it so I can amplify every tiny little plot inconsistency in my mind.

It is the modern mode after all.

Slightly more seriously, I enjoy the popular idea of flipping the whole thing, and viewing it as a Thanos movie, depicting his struggle against impossible odds to recover all the maguffins from a legion of superpowered villains and achieve his goal of galactic peace and prosperity.  In this light[spoiler] the end credits scene echoes a traditional sequel villain-setup[/spoiler] a la Flash Gordon.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Tiplodocus on 17 February, 2019, 05:52:07 PM
Just watched this again on the telly and still impressed. By the end, it makes the time fly though I did feel it dragged slightly at the start despite all ofthe impressively staged action. There's still not enough of Cap though. And the amount of levity in Thor story sort of undercuts that has on a mad rampage of revenge and means you never quite believe he will do for Thanos.

But really looking forward to Endgame. As long as it has more Cap.
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Dandontdare on 25 April, 2019, 04:30:15 PM
Reckon the new one may make a bit of cash - my closest multiplex has 61 showings tomorrow, starting at 8am!  :o

I might give it a week till the mob dies down (just need to avoid the internet till then....)

I'll lave it to someone who's seen Endgame to start a new thread....
Title: Re: Avengers - Infinity War
Post by: Mattofthespurs on 26 April, 2019, 09:01:42 AM
My Cineworld is doing the same.
We are going on Sunday to see it as a family.