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Prog 2054 - Me & My Shadow

Started by Grant Goggans, 21 October, 2017, 02:19:25 AM

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TordelBack

The point about Revere (a strip I never really got, BTW) is that he's another John Smith character, not that he is or isn't an Indigo Prime character. It makes about as much sense as the Balls Brothers showing up in Buttonman V, written by Guy Adams. I understand that all we've had is a single panel, and that contrary to my stereotypically Comic Book Guy reaction Kek-W may go on to do something truly amazing with the character. The problem I personally gave is that it looks (looks, mind, I'm not implying intent) like Tharg is taking the opportunity to build a John Smith Metaverse without John Smith, and from my perspective that is a poor decision. I can understand the need to pick up the threads of two popular unfinished stories  (DW and IP) if John can't, but why drag a third series in, in the process retrospectively changing its nature?


TordelBack

Lest I sink in a mire of fanboy negativity of my own making, I should say that everything else this week found favour in my holier-than-though eyes.

Lovely, lovely Dredd, spectacular Slaine, solid Absolom, perfect Sin Dex. Nobody but John Charles should colour Yeowell, ever.

TordelBack


Magnetica

The other thing about it for me is, it has virtually no credibility to pluck a character from years / decades ago and suddenly say they were part of something else when there had been no suggestion of that before. It could only work if the original writer had had that in mind all along and had planned it out.

But it doesn't sound like that's the case here at all.

JamesC

I'm not sure I agree with this.
I can't remember much about Revere so I may have the wrong end of the stick but why assume Revere wasn't just recruited into IP after the events in his own strip? Is it necessary to believe that he was part of IP all along? Danny Redman wasn't aware of IP throughout Dead Eyes after all.
As IP is a strip all about crossing realities it makes some sense that characters from other stories or universes could turn up.
It's certainly regrettable that this has been done without John Smith's blessing but it doesn't affect the quality of the story as written.

Magnetica

Yes I did think if that but it would mean that Revere's world was part of the IP multi-verse. Unless we are now saying all universes are part of the IP universe - which would be even worse.

Dead Eyes is different - that was revealed at the end of the original strip, not 20 or 30 years later.

Magnetica

Quote from: TordelBack on 26 October, 2017, 07:29:39 AM
Nobody but John Charles should colour Yeowell, ever.

What, not Gina Hart?

JamesC

Quote from: Magnetica on 26 October, 2017, 08:26:57 AM
Yes I did think if that but it would mean that Revere's world was part of the IP multi-verse. Unless we are now saying all universes are part of the IP universe - which would be even worse.

Dead Eyes is different - that was revealed at the end of the original strip, not 20 or 30 years later.

I'm fairly happy to assume that all universes are potentially part of the IP multiverse. If our own universe is included (I'm guessing it's supposed to be on the evidence of William Burroughs, Jack the Ripper etc) then I'm happy for other 2000AD universes to (potentially) be included as long as the stories are good.

Magnetica

For me it's about the original intent of the writer. Did they intend two stories to be linked, or is it just being tacked on years later? (By someone else in this case).

I have no problem with Revere being set in the IP universe if that is what John Smith had intended from the start. But he didn't.

I don't want a 2000AD multi-verse where every single story is potentially linked, just requiring a D Jump. As Tordel's says you can then get the Balls Brothers showing up in Buttonman, or indeed any character you like in any story. Not a good thing in my opinion.

I can just about tolerate this sort of thing in one-offs in anniversary Progs (or annuals in years gone by), where they are clearly just a bit of fun, but not as a regular thing.

And how would that relate to the Omnihedron? It just makes no sense.

And really that's the thing for me, I want the strips to have a sense of what they are and where they are going, at the very least driven by a strong sense (in the writer's mind) of who the characters are and how they might act and how they might evolve. Doesn't mean that can't naturally evolve over time (e.g. Dredd).

Greg M.

Quote from: JamesC on 26 October, 2017, 08:20:21 AM
I can't remember much about Revere so I may have the wrong end of the stick but why assume Revere wasn't just recruited into IP after the events in his own strip?

'Revere' ends with humanity - including the central character and the world itself - absorbed into a primal gestalt male-female yin-yang entity (which, if you like, can be seen as analogous to Revere and his lost love, Chloe McKiernan.) The cosmic entity then contemplates the possibility of starting existence over again and decides to do so. It is the most perfect ending to any 2000AD story, and is, in my opinion, best left untouched. Obviously I have no knowledge of how the current Indigo Prime series will deploy the character, but it's hard not to have concerns.

Dark Jimbo

I share most of the concerns, but don't ascribe any cynical motives - surely this is just the exuberance of an enthusiatic writer being handed the 'Smithverse' toybox with both Tharg's and Smith's blessing and gleefully running riot?
@jamesfeistdraws

dweezil2

To be honest, unless it had been spelt out on this thread, I don't think I would of made the connection with it being Revere from that strip a long time ago.
From what I remember, wasn't he a skinny dude with darker skin than the one we see in the latest Prog?
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IndigoPrime

Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 26 October, 2017, 10:05:44 AM
I share most of the concerns, but don't ascribe any cynical motives - surely this is just the exuberance of an enthusiatic writer being handed the 'Smithverse' toybox with both Tharg's and Smith's blessing and gleefully running riot?
It does come across like that. Personally, I always had a fondness for Revere. It was weird and interesting, and another of those strips that kept me reading 2000 AD though its dark days. I was really hoping it and some other Smith work would be compiled in the 2000 AD collection. And it ended well, too. Bringing Revere back seems oddly in-jokey. It'd be a bit like if agent Larsen showed up on the back of a 'dragon'.

Perhaps it's an attempt to echo the Dead Eyes switch. Regardless, I've enjoyed what Kek-W managed up until that single frame, and so am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until the series is over.

norton canes

Still no prog in Smiths this week. Two days overdue now. Starting to suffer thrill-power deprivation. Fortunately I got the Insurrection TPB for my birthday recently, it's tiding me over but I need new thrills soon

TordelBack

Quote from: Dark Jimbo on 26 October, 2017, 10:05:44 AM...the 'Smithverse' toybox...

What Smithverse?  The Devlin/Pussyfoot/Inspector Strange stuff, that's Dreddverse spinoff. Firekind, Cradlegrave (his best stuff), Slaughter Bowl and Love Like Blood are all their own thing, as is Revere, although for some reason I see Tyranny & Leatherjack as being set in the same world.  Reuse of Mr Cheetl aside, there aren't many other links to pull on. 

What you're talking about is taking all (or less hyperbolic, some) of one writer's independent creations and treating them as part of a shared continuity, rather than a shared output (hence my crack about Balls Brothers and Buttonman). This is okay in stuff like Ace Trucking or Sinister Dexter, light hearted silliness at their core, but with IP and Revere, a large part of the appeal of both stories was slowly exploring the actual nature of the reality they depict, something that presumably existed in some fluid way in John's head - retrospectively changing that reality by mashing them up affects the (my) enjoyment of those stories.

For me this sort of thing changes the tenor of the original stories, which I will personally deal with by pretending the later connections were never drawn, making it hard for me to enjoy the current stories.  And while I know it's probably a sincere attempt to get great characters back in the Prog, I just can't help the feeling, and I'm sure it's irrational, that it comes across as targeted