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The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread

Started by Colin YNWA, 22 May, 2016, 02:30:29 PM

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Colin YNWA

So Kano finishes and its as good as I remember. Why its not more highy regarded I simply don't know, its wonderful. Now I will accept that its not Bad Company 2 or Bad Company wonderful, but its damned close.

I said this 9 years (gulp) ago:

QuoteKano was great, better even than I remember and while very different in tone to the earlier Bad Company stories it really added to the whole mythos Milligan created and was a fantastic reworking of the whole old soliders finding it hard to live a normal life after a war. Great stuff.

That holds. It now has an added dimension as its provided me more reflections on the current stories. Old soldiers can't die and a good planet gives you what you need. I'd forgotten now many of the ideas of 'First Casulties' and 'Terrorists' have been set up here. I mean I was happy with my reading of those stories but this adds another level.

TordelBack

Be great if you could expand on this,  because the last two new series make not one jot of sense to me,  and my feelings on Kano are pretty much identical to yours!

Greg M.

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 19 August, 2018, 09:33:30 PM
So Kano finishes and its as good as I remember. Why its not more highy regarded I simply don't know, its wonderful. Now I will accept that its not Bad Company 2 or Bad Company wonderful, but its damned close.

Not as strong as BC1 or 2 'cos:

1: It feels a bit superfluous. The story concluded as perfectly and definitively as possible at the end of the Krool Heart, and while the Kano story is fine as a coda, it can't have the same weight. Kano and Danny are defined by their relationship to each other and to the Krool. No Krool, no Danny (who are now the same thing anyway) means Milligan has to redefine Kano, and the result is interesting, but not as potent. (Even Kano realises this - look where he's going at the end.)

2: Art's not on the same level as 1 and 2. Again, it's good, but nowhere near as good. 'Scream Blue Murder' is a great cover though.

I do like the story, but I love BC1&2. Passionately.

broodblik

Everything after BC 1 & 2 did not really fit in for me. Kano was alright but not in the same class as the proceeding stories.
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.

Colin YNWA

Quote from: TordelBack on 19 August, 2018, 10:22:48 PM
Be great if you could expand on this,  because the last two new series make not one jot of sense to me,  and my feelings on Kano are pretty much identical to yours!

Okay so I need to re-read the new stuff to nail this down - and as you can see I'm some way off that - but my first reading is that the first victim of war is truth and on that basis we can dispose of worrying about whats real and not, from either stories before. The stories have value and meaning, even if the truth isn't the facts we see before us, the truth is in what the characters represent and how they are used to expose the various real truths of war, the fate of veterans and the reasons behind war.

Okay that's reading one and the reading I've happy gone with to date and I genuinely thing is expressed in the story.

So in Kano we have a more literal possiblility. In Kano we get ghost of the victims of war solid and real on the planet that is home to those to those that need them. This is true of Kano's wife and child when that was what was needed, it was true of his fallen company when that was what was needed. It was a good planet.

Now maybe Earth is also a good planet and what's needed now is the truth behind the war. The truth of war. So it gives us what we need to learn that.

I have a reputation form getting this kinda thing wrong and I prefer my first reading of things but this is a nice alternative truth for me...

... did I say I often get these things wrong... speaking of which...

Colin YNWA

Speaking of alternative readings I meant to ask this as well last time about Firekind.

Do folks go with a literal reading as presented or the alternative reading that everything after Larsen's mask breaks down is his hallucinations?

I'm happy with both and enjoy the duel possibities, just wondered what others thought?

TordelBack

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 20 August, 2018, 09:46:20 PM
Now maybe Earth is also a good planet and what's needed now is the truth behind the war. The truth of war. So it gives us what we need to learn that.

See, that's sort of how I was viewing it, or at least I was vacillating between your two interpretations, but the sticking point for me is that if Earth still exists, then the whole plot of the two original stories is also fantasy (yes, I am aware it's ALL make believe).  If the latter two stories weren't set on Earth, I think it would (mostly) work fine as you describe.

Deep down I believe Milligan just forgot he'd already destroyed Earth, but allowing that the man is cleverer than I could ever hope to be, I find myself opting for the 'the facts don't matter, because truth was the first casualty', and then in short order thinking 'why am I reading page after page of this nonsense, then, gorgeous art aside?'.


AlexF

Being very clever and having a good memory for stories you write but probably have not re-read are not the same thing!

For what it's worth, my take on Bad Company (new style) is that Milligan wanted to tell stories about War and Truth and PTSD, and rather than inventing a bunch of new characters he re-used his existing, much beloved Bad Company and doesn't really care about continuity - but certainly with a large dose of 'if war reporting is all lies, who knows WHAT really happened in the past?

I also love the story Kano dearly, even if the art is just not quite as on fire as 1986 Brett Ewins.

As for Firekind, I'm definitely in the camp of 'it's all a hallucination, but it all really happened as well'.

I, Cosh

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 20 August, 2018, 09:50:13 PM
Do folks go with a literal reading as presented or the alternative reading that everything after Larsen's mask breaks down is his hallucinations?
Never really considered this before and don't think it would add much to the story in itself. The best synthesis of the two would be that a hallucination brought on by a psychotropic environment is reality for Larsen and trying to proscribe what he can experience with reference to our own limited sensory apparatus is the unreal. The mode of storytelling attempts to simulate the new sensations and experiences of the character.
We never really die.

TordelBack

I've always assumed that what Larsen is experiencing isn't so much an hallucination as participation in the very-real psychic world of Gennyo-Leil (sp?).  After all, the drug the poachers are after comes from the lantrisants, the lantrisants are larval Gennyans, and allow control of the Kesheen - the "hallucinogenic" environment is actually integral to the linked consciousness of the world, which has real-world effects, and that's what Larsen experiences. How St Sebastian fits into all this I'm not so certain.

What's always interested me about Firekind is whether the lantrisants are named after Llantrisant in Glamorgan, and if so is there any significance to that...?

I, Cosh

Quote from: TordelBack on 21 August, 2018, 01:47:38 PM
What's always interested me about Firekind is whether the lantrisants are named after Llantrisant in Glamorgan, and if so is there any significance to that...?
And is it the same Henrik Larsen who scored 3 goals in the Euro 92 semi-final?
We never really die.

Tjm86

Quote from: TordelBack on 21 August, 2018, 01:47:38 PM
.... the lantrisants are named after Llantrisant in Glamorgan, ...?

Having just survived an incredibly torrid two years in that place, I hope not.  Likely to put me off the story for life if I start making that kind of association! :o

Colin YNWA

And so here we are Prog 842 has been and gone and I'm five issues into the 'Summer Offensive'... why has it taken so long for me to babble? Well truth be told I wanted to get past all the bluster and fuss and just give myself a chance to evaluate the stories as just that 2000ad stories. As frankly once past all the nonsense and I was pleasently surprised how little there was... well aside from a certain annoucement about a certain film, which I'd forgotten happened during all this... anyway yeah once past all that these actually aren't all that bad at all. Certainly in the context of the last few years.

Don't get me wrong they are far, far far from the best but they are also a long way from the worst. So lets do a chart run down, TOTP style... which I'm sure the creators of the Summer Offensive would have thought was soooo cooooool at the time.

And at Number 5 we have - Really and Truly ... which surprises me. I've always remembered this really fondly and quite enjoyed it last time I read it as I recall... but its so... pointless. Its just about nothing. I can neither hate nor enjoy it, glorious art aside, but then there's not a strip in this line-up that is any less than wonderful to look at. Its forgettable and that's the worse crime a 2000ad story can commit. Worse even than...

Number 4 Dredd - Inferno... which at least give me enough reason to truly hate it. Its bloody awful, but at least I care that its bloody awful!

Number 3 Big Dave I always bemoan this is a strip that proves the fact that 2000ad is such a broad church that it can host almost any story done well by being the exception that proves the rule. On this reading though it feels more like a 2000ad story in that it does what 2000ad does well, it takes a pop culture trope and makes it 2000ad's own. In this case it takes the massively popular at the time Viz comic and makes a 2000ad strip out of it. So strangely it is so very 2000ad... still don't think it fits in mind, but I do really enjoy it for its own sake.

Just held off the top spot at Number 2 we find Manic 5. I really enjoy this series it takes Mark Millar's greatest weakness on other strips and gives it a home where it works. Its takes his passion for thinking cranking it number 11 and builds a strip that really sustains that feeble idea. Its got no depth or value, but By George its relentless high octane fun and feels very 2000ad.

But top of the pops this week number one with a bullet is of course Slaughter Bowl John Smith finds a way to make a fantastic story even with the draft rules that seem to surround. Its not his best, but not John Smith's best is still better than most. He uses a frankly superb idea, of course 2000ad should have an armoured dinosaur racing story, like all the best ideas when you see it, it just seems so obvious. John Smith however doesn't just stop there he layers it with a deeply creepy background, fun, rich supporting and even background characters. So intriguing is Stanley - our potentially psychotic protagonist and his hard luck (or is it) story the cool gun toting giant killer reptiles almost becomes an unwanted distraction... well almost they are after all  cool gun toting giant killer reptiles. So yeah this is a superb strip.

The most chilling thing about the summer offensive ... well actually its the coming soon ads. Is that more Fleischer Rogue I see coming... oh and Clown 2... I hope these 'Offensive' strips stick around longer than the 8 episodes I think they all get!

broodblik

Quote from: Colin YNWA on 21 August, 2018, 09:41:54 PM
Number 3 Big Dave I always bemoan this is a strip that proves the fact that 2000ad is such a broad church that it can host almost any story done well by being the exception that proves the rule. On this reading though it feels more like a 2000ad story in that it does what 2000ad does well, it takes a pop culture trope and makes it 2000ad's own. In this case it takes the massively popular at the time Viz comic and makes a 2000ad strip out of it. So strangely it is so very 2000ad... still don't think it fits in mind, but I do really enjoy it for its own sake.

This is strip that made me stop buying the Prog  :'(
When I die, I want to die like my grandfather who died peacefully in his sleep. Not screaming like all the passengers in his car.

Old age is the Lord's way of telling us to step aside for something new. Death's in case we didn't take the hint.

IndigoPrime

Looking at that, the Summer Offensive was for me basically one of John Smith's weaker stories (a stretched-out Future Shock, to some extent), and a load of junk, albeit sometimes good-looking junk. As for Big Dave, just no. Like Millar's Robo-Hunter, its tone-deaf manner of repeatedly punching down made it feel wrong at the time, and it's intolerable trash for me now, on so many levels. And what a waste of Parkhouse's talents. (Incidentally, any Parkhouse fans: read Resident Alien, his rather fab comic with ex-2000 AD Peter Hogan. In another universe, that'd be in 2000 AD on a very regular basis.)