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Author Topic: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread  (Read 12092 times)

TordelBack

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #270 on: 09 August, 2017, 09:37:39 am »
It's interesting that most people trace the "decline" of 2000AD to around prog 520 when that was around the time I was getting into it.

That's unusually specific - is that because undisputed works of genius Bad Company, Slaine the King and The Dead all end in Prog 519 and in their place comes the mediocrity of the (admittedly very well drawn) Hit-era of Rogue Trooper?

Nah - it definitely had glossy covers by the time it was going downhill.

Post-520 is the start of a slump, but doesn't represent any kind of permanent pattern of decline. Such towering glories still await, and soon!

Frank

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #271 on: 09 August, 2017, 10:23:54 am »
It's interesting that most people trace the "decline" of 2000AD to around prog 520 when that was around the time I was getting into it.

That's unusually specific - is that because undisputed works of genius Bad Company, Slaine the King and The Dead all end in Prog 519 and in their place comes the mediocrity of the (admittedly very well drawn) Hit-era of Rogue Trooper?

No, it's because 'it was never the same after they stopped printing it on bog paper'. *

They're right though; apart from Zenith, The Horned God, Necropolis/The Dead Man, Chopper: Song Of The Surfer, Judge Dredd: Revolution, and ABC Warriors: The Black Hole, progs 520-700 were unmitigated pish.

Even outside the ranks of those acknowledged classics, Hicklenton Nemesis, Cinnabar, Indigo Prime, Anderson: Hour Of The Wolf and Triad, Tyranny Rex, Bad Company: The Bewilderness/The Krool Heart, the first Summer Magic, Freaks, Tribal Memories, and Rogue Trooper:War Machine stack up pretty well against endless Ace Trucking Company and GFD Rogue Trooper.**

None of those are Halo Jones Book Three, but then neither are Halo Jones books one or two.


* © Garth Ennis. In truth, they never stopped printing it on bog paper, which is why lots of The Horned God looks like it's happening at night. Even when Dave Bishop switched to the same shiny paper on internal pages as the cover, the paper stock was still shite.

** Thrillpower Overload claims only twenty new strips debuted between 1980-1986, while the following three years saw a dozen new strips take their bow (p120).

Muon

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #272 on: 09 August, 2017, 11:28:28 am »
Okay, now I'm feeling really guilty about inadvertently starting the "prog 529" threadjack, but my thumbs are itching to clarify my own position and my smartphone's winking at me seductively...

My thing is that I love most of prog 520 to around 700 because that was the first peak of my fandom. Things dropped off for me after around 700, in the era of Fleischer's Harlem Heroes seeming to go on and on and on (what a waste of Steve Dillon's awesomeness, looking back) and that dumb sheep policeman thing. If I force myself to look at it dispassionately, however, I have to admit there was a very gradual period of decline that started around then and accelerated massively in the mid to late 1990s.

Disclaimer: I'm sure a lot of it had to do with identity crises brought on by the growing idea at the time that comics was a cool conversation topic that might get you laid, having to adjust to the demand for more and more colour pages and creators being poached by the Americans. Also the 500s came at the tail-end of a long period of ridiculous consistency and awesomeness. And then there are al the highs that Frank mentions, which probably wouldn't have been possible in the bog paper kids' comic of just a few years before.

CalHab

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #273 on: 09 August, 2017, 11:58:52 am »
No, it's because 'it was never the same after they stopped printing it on bog paper'. *

They're right though; apart from Zenith, The Horned God, Necropolis/The Dead Man, Chopper: Song Of The Surfer, Judge Dredd: Revolution, and ABC Warriors: The Black Hole, progs 520-700 were unmitigated pish.

Even outside the ranks of those acknowledged classics, Hicklenton Nemesis, Cinnabar, Indigo Prime, Anderson: Hour Of The Wolf and Triad, Tyranny Rex, Bad Company: The Bewilderness/The Krool Heart, the first Summer Magic, Freaks, Tribal Memories, and Rogue Trooper:War Machine stack up pretty well against endless Ace Trucking Company and GFD Rogue Trooper.**

None of those are Halo Jones Book Three, but then neither are Halo Jones books one or two.


* © Garth Ennis. In truth, they never stopped printing it on bog paper, which is why lots of The Horned God looks like it's happening at night. Even when Dave Bishop switched to the same shiny paper on internal pages as the cover, the paper stock was still shite.

** Thrillpower Overload claims only twenty new strips debuted between 1980-1986, while the following three years saw a dozen new strips take their bow (p120).


It's purely a coincidence that the decline "started" around the same time that the now 40-something guys who frequent this forum discovered girls/drink/whatever.

As a mere youngling still (just) in my thirties, for me the "decline" was around 1993. Mainly because that was when I discovered that Vertigo published comics aimed directly at moody teenagers with bad haircuts and worse taste in music.

Magnetica

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #274 on: 09 August, 2017, 01:05:37 pm »
Now this is based in my memory from the time and not a re-read, but the shift to the new size in Prog 520 was definitely a turning point for me.

Slaine was never as good again ( yes even the Horned God - I prefer Slaine The King).
Nemesis was never as good again.
Dredd became far more patchy and never seemed to have a consistent set of artist (until Rebellion took over and fixed that).

Yes we had better paper and more colour (from 589) but the stories just weren't as good.

With a few exceptions - notably Zenith.

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #275 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:09:15 pm »
Well this is interesting. I remember a similar discussion way back when I posed the age old question when did the first golden age begin. I seem to recall there was a great diversity of opinion then BUT no one suggested it ended as early as 520... I don't think. If I wasn't on me jollies and living off precious supplies of camping site wi-fi I'd go back and check.

I'm not going to try to prempt my findings from this re-read except to say previous reads, in all forms, would led me to be very surprised if there was a significent drop in form already. That said I do think there is a significent change about to come but in my minds eye at least that will not be at the cost of quality, not yet as least...

... bit I'm getting ahead of myself...

Colin YNWA

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #276 on: 09 August, 2017, 08:38:37 pm »
So I hailed 1985 the nostaligia fueled best year to date of Thrillpower but left a HUGE question dangling, could

1986

top it? As I type I really don't know... so I'll use the memory jogging powers of Barney's Cover Zone to try to unpick the answer.

First up we have the very significent question of does 1986 Dredd top 1985 Dredd. The answer is... YES. This year holds many, many of my all time favourite Dredd's. I mean pick any of 1986's stories drawn by Cam Kennedy, The Warlord, Adrian Cockroach, Falucci Tapes, The Big Sleep, Kenny Who and I could make an argument to find them a slot in my all time top ten. That's before we talk about Atlantis, Dredd Syndrome, Phantom of the Shoppera, Paid with Thanks etc etc ...  oh yeah and the small matter of Letter from a Democrat. Just consistant top of the game stuff.

1986 - 1 vs. 1985 0

So next up lets look at the stinkers, what year in thrillpower is without them. There's less Rogue in 1986, but ACE Trucking unfortunately more than makes up for that. Slaine starts off really bad, but towards the end of the year shows first the green shots of recovery and then after a full flowering back into its majestic best. So yeah barely a terrible thrill in sight, no Mean Team here... so

1986 - 2 vs. 1986 0

What about the absolute cream of the crop. Well Halo Jones Book 3 > Halo Jones Book 2; Strontium Dog recovers from the lows of The Ragnarok Job to the very heights of Rage an absolute stone cold classic... wow so ya know

1986 - 3 vs. 1986 0

Bloomin' heck genuinely wasn't expecting it to be this cut and dry. In the middle order we have Nemesis picking itself up, though not up book 1-4 its really good stuff. Anderson has a great solo story (not as good as 1985's I'd admit) Metalzoic and Bad City Blue all add to the mix and Sooner and Later still holds some of its innovative charm. So yeah 1986 is probably better than 1985 and as such is the new holder of the crown.

BEST YEAR IN THRILLPOWER (to date)

Wow. its as though as the old order changes (see previous comments) they do so at the absolute height of their powers. As if 'classic' 2000ad has achieved all it can and as 1986 draws to a close it hints at the exciting new things to come. As the great 'old' stuff finally reaches its Zenith a new order nervously peaks its head around the corner awaiting its chance to step up to the plate.

1987 will be many things I seem to recall but the one thing it won't be is the same old, same old and I'm really looking forward to how choppery or otherwise these new waters will be...

TordelBack

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Re: The completely self absorbed 2000ad re-read thread
« Reply #277 on: 10 August, 2017, 12:54:21 am »
Dredd became far more patchy and never seemed to have a consistent set of artists...

Apart from the bit where Carlos drew 31 consecutive episodes (and a total of 40 in a 12 month period), you mean?  Obviously I take your point, but there are as many exceptions to this post-520 as there are periods of inconsistency.