Game of Thrones Season 7: It's A Bit Nippy Out (SPOILERS)

[JamesC]

Yeah, I don't think there's anything that can't be explained away with a bit of creative thinking. I certainly wouldn't want the writers to have to explain exactly how everything is done.

For example - finding the army. The dragons are flying predators so it seems reasonable that they may have eyesight comparable to a bird of prey. In which case I have no trouble believing they could pinpoint a large gathering from miles away. Or maybe they just have Jon Snow's scent.
As for the spears - why wouldn't a marching army be carrying them?
The chains are a bit more of a stretch but assuming there's a time jump between the battle and the dead returning to retrieve the dragon, not outside the realms of possibility.

[Hawkmumbler]

The chains could have been salvaged from the abandoned Wildling settlement, similarly used by the Giants and Mammoths in Watchers on the Wall.

[JOE SOAP]

Actually, Taylor's response does make sense in terms of light the further you go north, as anyone who's been towards the Arctic Circle would know. That all said, the timing of events per se didn't really bother me –[spoiler]they weren't that far away from the wall, and so it's conceivable the entire thing happened in two or three days, with the gang somehow not freezing to death on the rock[/spoiler], but it was [spoiler]dues ex machina a go go – not sure we really needed the second one[/spoiler].

I think they marked passage of time through just enough beat changes to make the wait work. The pacing's a bit quicker than the average GoT episode but it did the job of conveying the wait while sustaining the tension throughout. No mean feat.

Can [spoiler]dragons be legitimately considered a deus ex machina[/spoiler] in this case? They've been set-up and defined so clearly over the course of the series and didn't just [spoiler]come out-of-the-blue beyond the wall without their earlier summoning by Jon Snow's message and Daenerys' flight from Dragonstone after Tyrion's pleas to stay.[/spoiler]

[IndigoPrime]

Perhaps not deus ex machina, then, but the [spoiler]nick of time save[/spoiler], which doesn't surprise when you do it every bloody time (and, in this episode, twice in two minutes).

[IndigoPrime]

Also, [spoiler]why are we all[/spoiler] adding [spoiler]spoiler tags[/spoiler] to this [spoiler]thread[/spoiler], which is clearly marked as having [spoiler]spoilers[/spoiler]? How odd.

[JOE SOAP]

Also, [spoiler]why are we all[/spoiler] adding [spoiler]spoiler tags[/spoiler] to this [spoiler]thread[/spoiler], which is clearly marked as having [spoiler]spoilers[/spoiler]? How odd.

Someone may have complained at one time or another. I'm happy to drop them.

[JOE SOAP]

Perhaps not deus ex machina, then, but the [spoiler]nick of time save[/spoiler], which doesn't surprise when you do it every bloody time (and, in this episode, twice in two minutes).

Benjen would almost qualify as a deus ex machina since his appearances have been few and far between; it worked for me in as much as it is an unexpected but welcome return, but I suspect Bran had a part in that being set-up since he scouted the place with ravens – maybe we'll find out later. That kind of piling on of tropes on top of tropes doesn't bother me – it can work in their favour – as the situation was more about aligning certain characters with their realisation of the stakes, and of course an excuse for some big action.

[radiator]

As I said to a colleague, I thought it was half amazing (the visuals, the zombie bear etc) and half extraordinary silliness. It's honestly getting quite hard to reconcile what I'm watching with the relatively grounded show I started watching back in season 1.

And no, that's not because of all the zombies, dragons and magic swords (I understand the saga's trajectory from low to high fantasy), I'm talking about how sloppy the writing has gotten. They've just totally and utterly given up on any sense of logic or plausibility, and it's a real shame. The timeline thing totally threw me off - even my girlfriend, who is the most casual of GoT watchers, remarked on how absurd it was, and I'm increasingly rolling my eyes at all the implausible heroic deeds, last-second rescues and miraculous escapes. This show used to be rooted in some sort of reality, where a dagger in the back or a simple miscalculation could bring down any of the big hitters, character's inability to communicate across distances was a major cause of conflicts, and characters couldn't teleport across continents willy nilly.

The part with them getting trapped on the incredibly convenient frozen island was borderline Peter Jackson Hobbit trilogy ridiculous, as was 'Gendry, you're the fastest'. The completely out of the blue arrival of Benjen was the icing on the silliness cake, and even the B story with Sansa and Arya is hard to take seriously.

On the plus side, I'm glad Beric Dondarrion made it - for some reason he's one of my favourite characters and I really like the actor playing him on the show. Sad to see Thoros go (again, one of my favourite characters/actors) but at least he got a good exit.

Also, if the zombie dragon brings down the wall, it will (to me) break the story, as it means that it will now be entirely Jon, Dany and Bran's fault.

[Rara Avis]

I think people are using spoilers to allow others to catch up on the most recent episode especially after two leaks.

Thinking out loud .. what if Viserion is not under the control of the Night King somehow? Or can be freed from his control ... No one knows how the wall was built .. what if ice dragons were used to make it ...

[JamesC]

The show has certainly become more bombastic and action packed. That's been offset by less sex and nudity. I'm fairly happy that as the world changes from a fairly grounded reality into one where dragons, witches, resurrection and zombies are a physical reality the tone of the show moves from political machinations towards high action and adventure.
That characters had time to plan and plot shows how the world has changed. Characters like what's-his-face with the little birds and little finger himself have been almost sidelined as the big players don't have time for the scheming any longer - it's all about force: Jon's physical prowess, Dani's sheer command of power and Cersi's ruthlessness.

I'm not sure the Sansa/Arya thing is so stupid either. The sisters were almost polar opposites to begin with and now they both have power but in very different ways. They both, to some extent, support Jon and I see their power games almost as sparring - saying to one another 'if you mess this up I'll get you'. It may seem silly and counterproductive but most family disagreements tend to.
I think Littlefinger overestimates his influence and I wouldn't be surprised if he gets his comeuppance at the hands of both sisters. I think the Starks will come together when it counts.

[Bolt-01]

One of my favourite characters of late. He's got no real idea what's going on, and is taking it all on faith... just like we are.

[CrazyFoxMachine]

The part with them getting trapped on the incredibly convenient frozen island was borderline Peter Jackson Hobbit trilogy ridiculous, as was 'Gendry, you're the fastest'. The completely out of the blue arrival of Benjen was the icing on the silliness cake, and even the B story with Sansa and Arya is hard to take seriously.

How strange - I was just comparing the two today. Yeah I totally agree with you Radiator it's jumped a shark this series no mistake.

Also -

One of my favourite characters of late. He's got no real idea what's going on, and is taking it all on faith... just like we are.

[sheridan]

The timing didn't seem like too much of a fudge to me.
I assumed they were about half a day's trek from the wall. Bearing in mind they were carrying heavy weapons and were moving slow and cautiously because of poor visibility I'd say they were no more than 10-12 miles from the wall. I don't think they were planning to be out overnight as they had no camping provisions.
I reckon the run back to the wall could be made in about 3 hours considering conditions.
Say 10 hours to get a Raven to Danearys (I think a raven can sustain an average speed of about 30mph, so that's 300 miles. Not sure how far it's supposed to be?) and another 8 hours to get a Dragon up north (I'm guessing Dragons fly faster than ravens).
That's 21 hours - so say they got attacked early afternoon and got rescued the next morning.

This is all fairly conservative. I'm willing to believe the super-courier-ravens and dragons can fly at twice that speed and that a few more hours passed. It keeps things well within the realms of believable implausibility for me.

Unfortunately it's a bit further than 300 miles.  As you might expect, somebody's done the maths (it's probably just short of 2,000 miles).

[JamesC]

Well that's it then - totally ruined for me now. 

[Leigh S]

I think we have to assume the Night King DOES need the dragon to get through - otherwise, why is he pissing about on the other side of the wall for season after season.

It follows that he is having as many visions as Bran about the future and is acting accordingly (or perhaps more interestingly, he is sending/feeding off/reading the visions of others, including the Hound/dany/Bran/Melisandre etc. - If you could read the visions of the "good guys", you wouldnt need any of your own! :p

Maybe there will be a message about self fulfilling prophecies and the danger of Faith and all that - probably not, but I like it as a concept.