Marvel & Mouse sue broke Ghost Rider creator

[O Lucky Stevie!]

Talk about a class action (not).

http://ohdannyboy.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/gary-friedrich-enterprises-llc-et-al-v.html

[locustsofdeath!]

I cannot express in words how angry this makes me.

If I actually read any of Marvel's shit titles, I'd boycott.

[SpetsnaZ99]

That is absolutely evil. It makes me wonder why anyone would even bother attempting to create new characters and stories if this is the way corps treat the talent.
I'm not going to see this movie, i was, but I'm not now.

[Banners]

What's he supposed to have done wrong?

[Zarjazzer]

He dared to sue for monies created from the character he helped create. I can only glean bits from the articles but it seems even in 1978 marvel were too sly to allow any wage slave such a thing and had "work for hire" on every check and got them to sign an agreement. Gary Friedrich accepted them back then and the court has decided that he or any other creator was in effect signing away all their rights.

Isn't this Disney,(who now own Marvel) demanding money from a broke old man? Perhaps it's time to have a boycott of more than just this movie?




 

[Steven Sterlacchini]

I think the 'work for hire' thing isn't isolated to people like Disney and Marvel etc. I don't want to go off topic (or go in to the rights and wrongs of it), but you don't have to look far to find other examples.

It's pretty shabby suing him, I think the corporate people are sending a message, to other creators who may be thinking about taking them to court - "You will lose AND it will cost you".

[Banners]

Sure seems a shame - especially coming from the same industry who constantly tell us not to copy nor rip-off their own product.

[TordelBack]

It's bloody shabby from the perspective of an actual human being, mistreating someone who has contributed to your success, but from the POV of a profit-maximising company... would they really want to give the impression that suing them for creators' rights on work-for-hire material is an action without consequence?  Wouldn't that open themselves up to endless litigation from everyone who ever added an extra pouch to Cable's costume?

Obviously the situation and the specific action utterly stinks, but within the world of contracts and lawyers, I'm not sure it isn't just business as usual.

[Dandontdare]

shitty and unnecessary behaviour. I predict a shitstorm of a backlash online followed by a rapid climbdown spun to make them look as good as possible.

[vzzbux]

shitty and unnecessary behaviour. I predict a shitstorm of a backlash online followed by a rapid climbdown spun to make them look as good as possible.

I think Marvel/Disney will stand their ground on this one. It is fucking shitty what they have done but they have the ASS LAW on their side.




V

[Dandontdare]

shitty and unnecessary behaviour. I predict a shitstorm of a backlash online followed by a rapid climbdown spun to make them look as good as possible.

I think Marvel/Disney will stand their ground on this one. It is fucking shitty what they have done but they have the ASS LAW on their side.

I expect them to make that perfectly clear, and spin it as some great magnanimous gesture 'cos Disney folk are just lovely, whilst not conceding anything legally

[I, Cosh]

Hmm. Not entirely serious, but not completely joking either.

Scene 1. New York City. Mid 70s. It's hot. Damn hot. Air con's creaking like an obese pensioner's walker. If you opened your apartment door, sweat would be running down your back like fanny batter down Roger's mum's bruised thighs.

Marvel Editor: "Hi Mr. Friedrich. I hear you're looking for some writing work with us?"
Mr. Friedrich: "Yeah, that's it. I've been doing some stuff but I hear this is where the money is."
Ed: "Ha ha! Well, we like what we've seen of your work. Have you got any thoughts on what you might bring to the party. Any keen Daredevil story ideas?"
Fred: "Em... No."
Ed: "No? Oh well. Maybe something more out there. How about a new villain for that crazy Silver Surfer?"
Fred: "Um... Not so much."
Ed: "Rrrright.... Okay. How about a wild new hero. You must have something pretty special there, whaddamIwronghere?"
Fred: "Er... Welll... No... Afraid not."
Ed: ".... So. To recap. You haven't got any ideas for any new stories, villains or heroes?"
Fred: "Oh, hell no! I got ideas comin' out the wazoo Mr Editor Man! But those are MY ideas."
Ed: ".... So.... You want to work in an industry that relies on creative input but you don't want to exchange any of your creations for our money?"
Fred: "That's about the size of it."
Ed: " You do see how that leaves us at something of an impasse?"

Exeunt omnes, pursued by a Wolverine.

As for them wanting money from him. I didn't R all of TFA (and IANAFL into the bargain) but, as far as I can tell, he brought an action against them and lost.  Isn't he lucky not to be pursued for their legal costs as well?

[Mike Carroll]

I don't get this at all.

Gary Friedrich worked for Marvel on a work-for-hire basis, fully aware that he would have no rights to anything he created for them. He created Ghost Rider as part of this contract. In 1978 he even signed an agreement with Marvel that he had no rights to the character.

Then a few years ago he brings a lawsuit against Marvel claiming that he is owed money for Marvel's continued use of the character (a character that both parties have agreed is fully owned by Marvel).

So what are Marvel supposed to do in a case like this? They can't not fight the lawsuit he's brought against them. And in cases like this, it's pretty much standard policy to issue a counter-suit: if they don't do that, they're keeping the door open for everyone else who's ever created anything for Marvel to also sue them.

While the money awarded to Marvel ($17,000) is a significant sum to a one guy and clearly only a drop in the ocean for a company the size of Marvel, why should they have to pay their own legal bills when the plaintiff lost the case? He's lucky it's only $17,000 - I think it's a safe bet that Marvel paid a lot more than that to their lawyers to fight the case.

It seems to me that the commentators on the web are treating Marvel as the bullies simply because they're the wealthier part of the equation. Just because Mr. Friedrich is an impoverished writer doesn't automatically make him the victim.

Seriously, I don't get why Marvel are the bad guys here! What exactly have they done wrong? Have I missed some big, important chunk of the story?

-- Mike

[Professor Bear]

The copyright allegedly lapsed on Ghost Rider and Friedrich's claim comes from his re-asserting his rights to the character technically in a legal limbo at that time (1), but people are down on Marvel because their counter-suit was to stop him referring to himself as the creator of Ghost Rider (which he is) on merchandise (although he did himself no favors selling merchandise with GR on it before he solidified his copyright claim), and they didn't even win their counter-suit - or defeat Friedrich's original suit - they simply bullied Friedrich into settling by maintaining an ever-increasing legal expenditure he couldn't afford to keep up with.  Simply put, this wasn't a legal victory, this was a corporation bullying their way out of a legal challenge.
If they were in the right, they should have proved it in court.  They didn't.

(1) I'm not sure on the specifics, but the rough gist is that if a company doesn't publish a book featuring a character and that character's distinct likeness/logo/whatever within a five year period, they're ceding certain rights to retain that character/character likeness/logo/whatever, or at least leave themselves open to some sort of legal challenge from rival parties.  Basically, that's why Marvel put out small print runs of limited series like Darkhawk and Captain Marvel out of the blue every couple of years by people you've never heard of - no-one cares how these books sell, they're just keeping the IP in circulation.

[Mike Carroll]

Thanks, Prof! That does explain why so many people are down on Marvel because of this... But I'm not sure my opinions have been swayed just yet. Claiming copyright ownership of the character because Marvel neglected to "top-up" their own copyright claim doesn't sit well with me. It smacks of Friedrich thinking, "Hey, look, they screwed up! I reckon I can make money from this!"

As a creator, my gut reaction is to side with Friedrich (the "David versus Goliath" syndrome: we all want the little guy to win), but my brain was telling me that he was in the wrong. I still don't get why anyone expected Marvel to behave any other way. If you create a character for someone else, it's their character. If you later try to bring a lawsuit against them, they're naturally going to fight it.

If they were in the right, they should have proved it in court.  They didn't.

That Marvel didn't win their counter-suit doesn't mean they weren't right. If the legal battle hadn't been terminated prematurely (by mutual agreement, for whatever reason), Friedrich would probably have lost a hell of a lot more than $17,000 (the figure that it is estimated he earned from unauthorised sales of Marvel-related merchandise).

-- Mike