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Current TV Boxset Addiction

Started by radiator, 20 November, 2012, 02:23:29 PM

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Dandontdare

"objectively unlikeable character" is another observation that I've seen, and it's equally bollocks. I find JJ very likeable, I love her dry gallows humour and no-bullshit attitude, so it's subjective at best. Only just started season 2, so I'll withold judgement (although 15 mins in I thought "hell, this is just retreading old ground - the junkie neighbour, spying on Luke, beating up stroppy clients" .... and then I realised I was watching S1:1 again  :-\

Pyroxian

I enjoyed S2 of JJ - watched it over the course of two days. I don't find JJ unlikeable, but there are characters in that series I prefer (Patsy, Hogarth). I loved the way that S2 just completely interweaves multiple characters stories and I'm really looking forward to what S3 will bring ([spoiler]Hellcat![/spoiler])

Tjm86

The Last Ship jumped the shark a loooong time ago.  It started out as a vaguely interesting, albeit commonly used, plague story.  Since the start though it has gone from scatty to outright garbage.  It's one of those mysteries that crap like this keeps getting renewed yet Firefly didn't even last a single full series.

Professor Bear

Quote from: Dandontdare on 29 March, 2018, 03:06:16 PM"objectively unlikeable character" is another observation that I've seen, and it's equally bollocks.

This is literally the point of her character.
It's even stated as outright fact in one of the show's many ham-fisted moments by JJ's own mother when she draws direct comparisons between JJ pre and post-Killgrave trauma - JJ's personality is not a result of PTSD (she is shown to be just as big an arsehole in the flashback episode), she's made herself deliberately unlikable to keep people away, which in turn feeds her self-loathing because it makes her as big an arsehole as her mum.
This is all basic amdram stuff, and quite frnakly it strikes me as a little... sexist that a female character isn't allowed to be unlikable but a male character is.

Dandontdare

I get the feeling that most people who say it tend to mean "I find her unlikeable" rather than "she's a character who, in the context of the narrative, pushes people away by deliberately being unlikeable", but I take your point. Hundreds of lead characters are unlikeable, and deliberately so, but that doesn't affect whether the show is any good - and you're right, in a male lead it's never commented on.

TordelBack

Hmmmm.  Currently working our way through Crazy Ex-Girlfriend, and the lead there must be the most unlikeable central character since Anakin Skywalker.  In the episode we watched tonight, a truly skin-crawling minor character (Trent) re-appears, and acts exactly like a male version of Rachel Bloom's vile Rebecca, and everybody reacts to him pretty much as they react to her.  I think Jessica Jones is largely unlikeable too (haven't watched Season 2), but I think its's just as intentional, and worthy of comment. 

Theblazeuk

I just finished off JJS2 and I enjoyed that far, far more than the first season. Or any of what I saw in Defenders. I guess just because she was less of a complete brat - less hypocritical in her 'no bullshit' attitude when previously she was really all kinds of bullshit herself. So glad that we saw a little Hellcat after all that though.

JOE SOAP

There's unlikeable coupled with unwatchable and unlikeable yet compelling – or at least entertaining.

The film Nightcrawler has a much noted, unlikeable and completely unchangeable character, but he's utterly compelling throughout. Margot Robbie as Tonya Harding is unlikeable. It's not a negative selling point of I, Tonya, but rather a plus.

One of the most apparent criticisms of Blade Runner –both current and past– is that Harrison Ford's Rick Deckard is too unlikeable a character to care for or be interested in.

If you find a character's both unlikeable and unwatchable then as the Prof. implies, maybe it's just bad or repulsive characterisation, or it's just a boring story.

Theblazeuk

I do think that neither series of JJ has had a particularly great storyline. It's the other side of binge watching, where you mainly carry on watching because it's all there rather than because you need to watch that next episode. Mind you that said Killgrave remains the best villain in any Marvel TV/Cinematic property.

JOE SOAP



13 episodes is twice as long as the Marvel shows should be.


Mardroid

Quote from: Theblazeuk on 29 March, 2018, 11:46:23 PM
I do think that neither series of JJ has had a particularly great storyline. It's the other side of binge watching, where you mainly carry on watching because it's all there rather than because you need to watch that next episode. Mind you that said Killgrave remains the best villain in any Marvel TV/Cinematic property.

I think you might be right, although I think Daredevil's kingpin might be a contender but in a Gerry different way.

Keef Monkey

Quote from: JOE SOAP on 29 March, 2018, 11:52:47 PM


13 episodes is twice as long as the Marvel shows should be.

I've found this to be my main criticism of each one I've watched, it's just too long a season for things not to sag in places. Currently a few episodes into The Punisher and really enjoying it though, while still anticipating that inevitable slump somewhere around the corner.

I find JJ very likeable, and I thought they did a really good job of framing why she behaves the way she does, without necessarily banging you over the head with it. The characterization is there in the glimpses you get of her previous life and in her relationships with people from before she adopted the distancing tactic. I actually found the hints at what her life would have been if she hadn't been through what she did was one of the strongest aspects of the show and really made me feel for her.

So I like her!

Frank


Professor Bear

Conan, aka Conan The Adventurer, the 1997-98 tv series made off the back of Hercules and Xena's success in bringing shoestring fantasy knockabouts to a higher level of tv prominence than they deserved.  I'd heard this was terrible, and it is, with really bad CGI, an evil sorcerer who seems to have been spliced in from elsewhere to provide bookends for the A story ala 7 Zark 7 from Battle of the Planets, poor action staging, and a limited range of shooting locations that really becomes apparent when they use CGI desert backgrounds instead of just shooting at a beach behind a sand dune or something.  They don't even rent out quarries to shoot stuff, so that tells you the kind of budget we're talking about here - at one point they even have an establishing shot that looks like it was rendered in whatever the 1990s equivalent of Sketchup was, and we're talking about an establishing shot of a cottage: they literally couldn't afford a stock shot of a house.
Ralf Moeller is a very bad actor, but somehow he is also a very good Conan - the way he lumbers around delivering simplistic codas in mangled English is often hilarious to behold, and that bit in the opening credits where he does a jump into a river that looks like a crash text mannequin being tossed off a building is a great way to start every single episode, but somehow he just looks and acts the part and is exactly what I would expect Conan to be like, even if he's maybe a little long in the tooth.  Jason Momoa was a terrible Conan, but a better actor than Moeller, so there's probably some kind of lesson in here somewhere about finding your level of bullshit and sticking to it.  The rest of the cast are just plain terrible, including possibly the worst version of Red Sonia ever committed to film, and yes, I have seen the 1980s Red Sonia film.
Aptly for a show that shares its title with a children's cartoon, Conan has a sort of quest arc to vanquish an evil wizard, as well as a magic sword that at one point he holds aloft to be struck by lightning ala He-Man, and most episodes revolve around a really cliched tv plot (transporting a spoiled bride-to-be, defending a newborn child who is The Chosen One, an imposter ruining the hero's good name, etc) rather than plundering REH's Conan lore, which is just baffling as this is a property that surely comes with a built-in rationale for plundering the many Conan prose stories?
I'd say don't bother with this, but I actively sought it out because of morbid curiosity, so... meh.  Watch it or don't, but it's the opinion of this veteran shitty tv show watcher and enjoyer-er that this is devoid of any objective merit apart from Moeller's performance as Conan.  Might be good if you watch tv while doing other things, I guess.

JOE SOAP


You left out the most interesting trivia.