Scandal! and a nerdy query

2000AD Online · 08 April, 2002, 09:16:24 PM

Hi ho everyone out there! Wasn't that Dredd CD terrific? My son insists on having it played five times a day so it's growing on me.
My nerdy query is this; Was the punk band DEVO ever mentioned or made fun of in 2000 AD? If not, why not?
The scandal is releasing a graphic novel of Rain Dogs. Here's hoping no one buys it.

yours doggedly,

Floyd KErmode

2000AD Online · 08 April, 2002, 11:51:49 PM

Anyone else notice the, ahem, homage to Frank Frazetta that's passing for the cover of the 'Glimmer Rats' collection?

Jim_Campbell · 09 April, 2002, 12:09:53 AM

> Anyone else notice the, ahem, homage to
> Frank Frazetta that's passing for the cover of
> the 'Glimmer Rats' collection?

A little harsh - IIRC, that was originally a 2000ad cover and Mark Harrison added "after Frazetta" (or was it Steranko?) under his signature to indicate the original source.

If it's disappeared from the cover of the collection, I doubt it's Mark's fault ...

Cheers

Jim

frazer · 09 April, 2002, 12:59:32 AM

"A little harsh - IIRC, that was originally a 2000ad cover and Mark Harrison added "after Frazetta" (or was it Steranko?) under his signature to indicate the original source. "

this is true. in fact, iraised this point in Comics International when another reader accused Mark of "swiping" the image.

the thing is, in context the homage is totally appropriate. maybe many younger readers (or hardcore 2000ad readers who missed the warren magazines) won't get the connection, but seeing as that cover is considered a classic the reference should be crystal clear.

the only times i've seen genuine cases of "swiping" have been when lesser known images (mainly interiors) have been stolen out of laziness.

other covers that have been repeatedly pastiched (sp?) have been the cover to fantastic four #1, giant sized xmen #1, amazing fantasy (spidey's first showing) #37 i think, and o i could go on. but i won't.

The credit to frazzetta was indeed on the original cover, but has tragically been removed from the cover of the reprints.

Frazer

2000AD Online · 09 April, 2002, 02:09:34 AM

No, you're quite right, it was a little harsh of me. I apologize, I was in a rather foul mood partly due to reading the Megazine.

As for genuine swiping, I'm sad to say it has happened in 2000 AD a bit too much for my liking, Liam Sharpe being a prime example.

sigu · 09 April, 2002, 02:35:23 AM

There are a couple of swipe/homages on the Art of McMahon website. To see them, click on the link below and then hit the 'swipe page' link on the first page.

If anyone can think of any good McMahon swipes, please let me know. There have been loads of them and I'm always looking for new ones to put on the site.

cheers,

SiG

Link: http://www.2000ad.nu/mcmahon/" target="_blank">The Art of McMahon

http://www.2000ad.nu/mcmahon/img/smlogo.gif">

DavidXBrunt · 09 April, 2002, 04:35:02 AM

The most blatant example of swiping I can think of is of some Brian Bolland art.

Towards the end of the Grant Morrison penned J.L.A. story 'Rock of Ages' the regular artist is assisted with the double length climax by a second artist. There's a sequence where the Joker is rendered sane and regrets what he's been doing. The images of the Joker, hand over face, could almost have been traced from the Bolland drawn 'The Killing Joke'. It's unbelievable that he got away with it.

Pastiches are fine (J.L.I. #1 - with the hero's posing as they look out at the reader is one that's done all the time...) but that's just stealing

Wils · 09 April, 2002, 05:09:32 AM

Ron Smith was also very guilty of Bolland swipage in the Judge Child. Likewise, Brett Ewins in the Four Dark Judges story. I'm sure there are more as well.

Wils

frazer · 09 April, 2002, 05:19:17 AM

i dunno...this is a murky area for sure...

being an artist, i know how much rewferencing goes on in art naturally, and when a reader sees theft, and artist sees vague similarity etc. for instance, i've used a very specific image of the halls of justice in the death strip (only one panel of course) which i chose because it needed to be instantly clear in that one panel that this was the halls of funting justice, and not just any old building.

on the other hand the real issue of swiping comes in more subtle forms, such as Adam Hughes' complaints that many american artists literally lightboxed his figures from one illustration into another, changing the costume but basically letting him do all the hard work.

there is a fine line between homage and theft i agree, but i'm of the inclination that one should err on the side of Homage before hurling accusations of swipage at any artists.

hell, i've had a few "berni wrightson" swipe accusations meself. the bastards.

frazer

paulvonscott · 09 April, 2002, 05:20:40 AM

Ron smith has big knockers!

Now I've got that out of my system, I'm rather fond of the old man. His work brought a lot of humour to Dredd.

Having just read the Judge Child Quest again last night, I think you'll find he was probably trying to ensure Owen Chrysler looked the same. I think MacMahon had the opposite problem and hadn't recieved the reference material when he started to draw it.

2000AD Online · 09 April, 2002, 07:37:31 PM

To be honest, I don't think it's too difficult to distinguish between a homage and a swipe.

A homage is when an artist is merely alluding to someone else's artwork but maintains his or her own style. For example, the respective artwork of Cliff Robinson and Brett Ewins for their Dredd radio play and RPG covers referencing Mike McMahon's cover art for Prog 61 (mind you, Brett did swipe a good few frames from Brian Bolland when Judge Anderson first got her own strip).

A swipe is when an artist adapts his or her own style to that of another artist when referencing someone else's material. Such as, for example, Liam Sharpe's blatant use of Glenn Fabry's artwork for 'Judge Dredd: What I Did During the Summer Holidays by P.J. Maybe' (page 5, frames 1, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 if you're interested).

Liam Sharpe actually went one better than most artists when he swiped Mike McMahon's style itself for his artwork in Overkill comic.

sigu · 09 April, 2002, 07:50:17 PM

"A homage is when an artist is merely alluding to someone else's artwork but maintains his or her own style. For example, the respective artwork of Cliff Robinson and Brett Ewins for their Dredd radio play and RPG covers referencing Mike McMahon's cover art for Prog 61"

McMahon didn't consider that to be an homage. In his banned prog 500 strip "Bloodsuckers", one of the parasites holds the prog 61 cover in one claw and Ewins copy in the other, saying, "Here's an example of what you can get away with in the wacky world of comics - it sure beats working for a living!"

SiG

Link: http://www.2000ad.nu/mcmahon/" target="_blank">The Art of McMahon

sigu · 09 April, 2002, 07:57:55 PM

Mr Whit,

Do you know where I might find online examples of these McMahon-style Liam Sharpe Overkill images, or which issues they appeared in?

SiG

2000AD Online · 09 April, 2002, 08:36:30 PM

I remember being a little surprised by Mike spotlighting the Ewins 'homage', even more so when he said he didn't mind other artists swiping his style.

As for Liam Sharpe's artwork for Overkill, I'm at a complete loss. Overkill never really appealed to me but I always had a peek to see what was going on. I remember picking up whatever issue it was, thinking, from the cover, Mike was finally back working, only to find it was none other than Liam himself. The strip in question featured a female protagonist and most resembled Mike's early / mid '80s period. If I remember correctly, 'Genghis Grimtoad' was also appearing. I'm also pretty sure it wasn't too long before Overkill folded.

Does anyone know, or even care, whose artwork Liam's most resembles now? A shame really, 'cos I quite liked his initial pin-ups for 2000 AD.