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Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!

Started by Richard, 09 December, 2017, 02:32:57 PM

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Richard

Maybe the point all along was to inspire us to look into it further.

Fungus


Proudhuff

Quote from: Robin Low on 19 December, 2017, 07:13:12 AM
- but the characters could quite realistically have that simplistic attitude born of historical and nationalist resentment.

Good job they never got a plebiscite on it then  :-X
DDT did a job on me

Robin Low

Quote from: Fungus on 19 December, 2017, 11:06:29 AM
Quote from: Robin Low on 19 December, 2017, 07:13:12 AM
Quote from: Richard on 18 December, 2017, 10:40:06 PM
Looks like Pat wasn't just making it up.
I don't think he does make things up

:eh:

Well, robots and stories and stuff, yeah, obviously, he makes that up. But his historical information is undoubtedly sourced from somewhere.

Regards,

Robin

Robin Low

Quote from: Richard on 19 December, 2017, 10:23:24 AM
Maybe the point all along was to inspire us to look into it further.

In this case it certainly worked, but I'm left thinking that the circumstances surrounding both the Pirates and post-war callousness were far more complex than suggested in Savage.

We've said it here before, but it's unwise to ascribe a character's opinions to its author. The problem with Uncle Pat is his interviews do tend to suggest that we are getting it direct from the horse's mouth. When I was in my teens and twenties, I'd cheerfully lap this stuff up. Now, at the tender age of 47, I still see the meanness and spitefulness of human beings, but I also realise that the underlying reasons for them being so are rarely simple. I'm appalled by the apparent words of Roosevelt revealed by that Wiki article... but I can also see how several years of war and the deaths of a few hundred thousand Americans would create that lack of empathy. I don't like it, not one bit, but I understand it.

I don't want to cut this discussion off with my post being the final word, but I imagine this thread has been derailed enough.

As I said before, Savage is the Mill's story I've enjoyed more than any other in a long, long time, so I'm always happy to see it back.

Just looked through this thread again and I couldn't see anyone mention the forthcoming Strontium Dog. Fan-wank, or what! Bring it on!

Regards,

Robin

Southstreeter

So on the subject of upcoming Stront, do we have any idea as to how old Wulf Jr might be? I've always been a bit unsure of the SD timeline. How old was Johnny when he met Wulf? How old is he now? For how long was he dead? I don't think it's ever been Dredd-style real time, and probably left deliberately vague, but I dont' really feel enough strip time has elapsed. On the other time, I'm getting pretty old myself...

Steve Green

I did try to break down the timeline for Stront when I was bored and trying to create a timeline for the fan film facebook page.

(See below - may be errors though)

Johnny is 20 when he travels back to meet Wulf, I imagined Wulf is 5-10 years older

So, say 27 when he returns to 2170.

Which makes him around 35-37 for the bulk of the golden age run.

There's a gap between Wulf meeting Johnny and Johnny having another partner (sniffer Martinez) - also Wulf mentions the Triton Wars (before it was revealed he was a viking)

So there's a gap 2170-2176 ish where Wulf could have easily had a kid.

It's now 2199 or thereabouts, so Wulf's kid could plausibly be in his 20s.




793 AD

Johnny Alpha travels to the Scandinavian Pensinsula back from the 22nd Century to apprehend Max Bubba and his gang. He meets Wulf Sternhammer for the first time.

After defeating Bubba, they return to 2170

1945
Johnny Alpha, Wulf Sternhammer and the Gronk are assigned by the Committee for Ultimate Retribution, C.U.R. to apprehend Adolf Hitler in his bunker and return to the 22nd Century to face justice.

1987
Kaiakok-l Freedom Fighters kidnap US President Ronald Reagan and transport him to 2187

2108
Johnny and Wulf arrive in Mega-City One running into Judge Dredd (Top Dogs)

2114
Johnny Alpha arrives in Hondo-cit to terminate Sabbat

2120
Nelson Bunker Kreelman Born

2130
Diana Kreelman Born

2139
Nelson Bunker Kreelman (AKA Bunky) travels to Mega-City One

2150
The Great War

2150
in later stage of her pregnancy Diana Kreelman is exposed to radiation while travelling from the Scilly Isles to Salisbury

Portrait of a Mutant

2150
Nelson Bunker Kreelman enacts strict anti-mutant laws

2150
John Kreelman born to Diana and Nelson Bunker Kreelman, John is a mutant

2162
John Kreelman runs away to join the Mutant Army led by General Armz, adopts the name Johnny Alpha

2167
First Mutant Uprising

2167
Alpha is seconded to William Blood Moon – 'Bloody Billy'

2170
Blood Moon story

2170
The Mork Whisperer

2170
Max Bubba and his gang escape into 1st century Scandinavia

2173
Alpha's partner Sniffer Martinez is killed (A cure for Kansyr flashback)

2174
The Triton Wars

2176
Alpha captures Sadan the Demon Maker

2176
The Complaint

2176
Top Dog - Johnny and Wulf track a bounty back to MC-1 in the past

2179
Don Dork is trapped into the Hell dimension

2180
First Starlord Story Max Quirxx Story (Starlord)

2180
Papa Por-ka
No Cure For Kansyr
Planet of the Dead
Two-faced Terror
Demon Maker
The Ultimate Weapn

2180
The Galaxy Killers

2181
Journey into Hell
Death's Head
The Schickelgruber Grab
Muties Luck
The Doc Quince Case
Bad Boys Bust
The Gronk Affair
A Sorry Case
Headly Foot Job
The Kid Knee Caper

2182
Roadhouse

2183
The Moses Incident

2184
The Killing

2184
Outlaw!

2184
Traitor to his kind
Shaggy Dog Story
The Glum Affair

2184
Big Bust of '49

2185
The Slavers of Drule

2185
Johnny and Wulf retire to Moondog Mountain, Smiley's World

2185
Wulf is killed by the Max Bubba Gang

2187
'Bitch' Freedom Fighters abduct Ronald Reagan from 1987

2187
A Royal Affair

2187
The Rammy

2187
Stone Killers

2187
The No-Go Job

2187
The Final Solution. Johnny Alpha is killed by Lyran Sorcery and the Doghouse is destroyed by a bomb

2188
Island of the Damned
Durham Red hunts down the Goth Lord

2193
New Doghouse is built

2194
Precious Matson enlists Middenface McNulty in the search for
Johnny Alpha's body

2195
Dave Heckle becomes Agency Controller of the new Doghouse

2196
Feral is executed

2196
Johnny Alpha is revived by the Stone Wizards at the request of
Middenface McNulty and Precious Matson

2197
Second Mutant Uprising (Dogs of War)

2199
The Stix Fix - Alpha and his crew are recruited from prison.

2199
Repo Men

2199 By Private Contract - Alpha and McNulty travel to MC-1 (circa 2139) to take Dredd to 2220 to be tried by clones of Chief Judge Cal.

37th Century
Johnny, Wulf, and the gronk emergency time jump to the 37th century along with their prisoner Adolf Hitler.

Richard

Excellent timeline, thank you.

2220 is definitely the date given in By Private Contract, and I'd assumed that was the date in Jonny's own timeline, rather than him going 21 years into his future to deliver his prisoner. It I wondered if it was a mistake and was meant to read "2200", given that Middenface McNulty would have to be in his 80s otherwise.

Robin Low

Quote from: Southstreeter on 19 December, 2017, 05:12:25 PM
So on the subject of upcoming Stront, do we have any idea as to how old Wulf Jr might be? I've always been a bit unsure of the SD timeline. How old was Johnny when he met Wulf? How old is he now? For how long was he dead? I don't think it's ever been Dredd-style real time, and probably left deliberately vague, but I dont' really feel enough strip time has elapsed. On the other time, I'm getting pretty old myself...

Okay.

Alpha is born in 2150.

He meets Wulf in 2170 (well, A.D. 793)

Wulf is killed in 2185 ("the man who for fifteen long, hard-fought years had been his only normal friend")

Which puts Alpha's death in 2186, a year ahead of where it's usually reckoned due to a 2000AD starscan-type-thingy.

Based on years passed mentioned in The Life and Death of Johnny Alpha, Alpha is resurrected about 9 years later, so at least 2195.

Getting to the current date would need me digging out some back-Progs, sorry.

Regards,

Robin

Steve Green

Yeah there was a bit of fudging - they mention something called the flux or something?

I was guessing it was some interweb thing but maybe had bounties from the future as well as current ones.

There's also a couple of one at the big bang and another in the far future that I didn't bother including.

But Alpha's currently 50 I guess, didn't have any young middenface to ref, but imagine middenface is at least 10 years older.

Robin Low

Quote from: Robin Low on 19 December, 2017, 05:39:37 PMWulf is killed in 2185 ("the man who for fifteen long, hard-fought years had been his only normal friend")

Which puts Alpha's death in 2186, a year ahead of where it's usually reckoned due to a 2000AD starscan-type-thingy.

If Wulf's death is very late in 2185, I can go with Steve's 2187 death date for Alpha. The issue is the anniversary of Wulf's death that crops up in The Final Solution.

Regards,

Robin

Steve Green

Yeah, I can't honestly remember where I picked 2187 from - the dates sometimes tied in with publication + 200 years, sometimes didn't.

Robin Low

Quote from: Steve Green on 19 December, 2017, 05:53:09 PM
Yeah, I can't honestly remember where I picked 2187 from - the dates sometimes tied in with publication + 200 years, sometimes didn't.

There are some occasional dates in SD that don't really fit with what's now regarded by many of us as definitive (definitive in the sense they're in the strip and tell a coherent story), but on the whole it's possible to do some meaningful detective work to fill out the rest.

Of course, for some of us, there's a whole other timeline to consider....

Regards,

Robin

Southstreeter

That's fab, Robin. The overall picture makes sense. I guess Alpha didn't age while he was dead, so he'd physically be in his 40s.

Richard

So it's entirely feasible for Wulf to have an adult son by now.