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Goosebump moments in comics.

Started by Roger Godpleton, 11 September, 2009, 03:17:41 PM

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Buddy

Oh yes... and Akira.

It hurts my head just thinking about the amount of work that went into the artwork!

Worth a re-read soon I think.

Roger Godpleton

The double page spread of all the heroes in The New Frontier. It's corny as hell viewed in isolation but Cooke's spiel about the best of humanity coming together is some stirring stuff. From the same book, I love the scene where Hal Jordan finally has enough of Carol (& others) questioning his integrity of his pacifism. Simple but incredibly effective.

Also from Grant Morrison's JLA: Rock of Ages, Batman punches out Metron and IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

I may as well just confess that Morrison is my favourite comic writer ever. There, I said it.

Especially Spector's death in The Filth (she rapidly ages six months and so does her cancer). He almost always manages to inject just the right amount of pathos into some of the most bizarre settings and he's never afraid that he might lapse into melodrama.
He's only trying to be what following how his dreams make you wanna be, man!

Paul faplad Finch

Quote from: SmallBlueThing on 17 September, 2009, 06:21:05 PM
Now, I love me a bit of 'Preacher'
  I know a lot of people (especially non-comic readers) rate it very highly indeed- and it's often called "the best comic ever done". I have a sneaking suspicion this may be said entirely to wind up fans of Sandman (and to a lesser degree Mr Moore) and to make them jump up and down huffing that how can the rough boys across the road possibly prefer that profane garbage to their esoteric retellings of ancient myths and marvellous use of Jungian Archetypes, strop strop.

A bit like the reaction of Beatles fans (and hairy people in general) to Punk at the end of the seventies.

Heres the thing. I love Sandman, I think it's a fantastic comic that changed the way I looked at the medium. The exact same comment could be applied to Swamp Thing. And yet I would still say that Preacher is indeed the best comic ever written.

The reason is this. If I gave a copy of Alan Moores Swamp Thing to a typical non comic reader they would likely give up on it after a couple of issues. Likewise Sandman. Give them Preacher and they'll laugh themselves silly at the nob gags and bestiality jokes and copious useage of the word fuck. They'll keep reading. And before long they'll be hooked on the characters, they'll be willing Jesse and Tulip to stay together, they'll be willing Cass to overcome his demons and stay on the 'good side', they'll be cheering on Arseface as he rises from the ashes of his crappy childhood.

Eniss uses the gore and toilet humour to hook people but uses heart, soul, and some of the best characters you'll ever read about to keep them hooked.Sandman and Swamp Thing are intelligent character pieces. Preacher is an intelligent character piece with mass market crossover appeal.

It doesn't mean that round my way
Pessimism is Realism - Optimism is Insanity
The Impossible Quest
Musings Of A Nobody
Stuff I've Read

Roger Godpleton

QuoteGive them Preacher and they'll laugh themselves silly at the nob gags and bestiality jokes and copious useage of the word fuck. They'll keep reading. And before long they'll be hooked on the characters, they'll be willing Jesse and Tulip to stay together, they'll be willing Cass to overcome his demons and stay on the 'good side', they'll be cheering on Arseface as he rises from the ashes of his crappy childhood.

Or they'll find overbearingly crude, sentimental and condescending.

If you want a good "gateway" comic I'd say DK Returns is still the best bet. Everyone knows Batman right? Well in this one he's mental.
He's only trying to be what following how his dreams make you wanna be, man!

radiator

The Akira comics are astonishing. One thing I've never worked out - Otomo didn't draw the whole thing himself did he? It seems impossible that one guy could have drawn it all - he must have had a whole team just doing the speed lines, surely?

I, Cosh

Quote from: faplad on 18 September, 2009, 12:11:52 AM
And yet I would still say that Preacher is indeed the best comic ever written.

The reason is this. If I gave a copy of Alan Moores Swamp Thing to a typical non comic reader they would likely give up on it after a couple of issues. Likewise Sandman.
At work today an otherwise perfectly normal chap suddenly opined that Preacher is a far better meditation on man's relationship with the divine than The Da Vinci Code. I couldn't argue.

I don't think your argument holds much water though. Irrespective of the quality, wasn't Sandman's impact and popularity largely down to the extent to which it drew in a non comics reading audience?

My surefire path for gettin a non-reader into comics would be: Asterix -> DR & Quinch's Guide to Life -> Leviathan -> The Mighty Kev -> Everything else.

Quote from: Roger Godpleton on 17 September, 2009, 10:49:14 PM
Also from Grant Morrison's JLA: Rock of Ages, Batman punches out Metron and IT MAKES PERFECT SENSE.
I love the bit in the first Morrison JLA story where the three super-hard heroes have Batman surrounded and he's not remotely scared...
We never really die.

Paul faplad Finch

Quote from: The Cosh on 18 September, 2009, 12:35:08 AM

I don't think your argument holds much water though. Irrespective of the quality, wasn't Sandman's impact and popularity largely down to the extent to which it drew in a non comics reading audience?

My surefire path for gettin a non-reader into comics would be: Asterix -> DR & Quinch's Guide to Life -> Leviathan -> The Mighty Kev -> Everything else.

Ypu may be right about sandman. I can only speak from my own experience. I spent many years trying to subtly influence my colleagues into reading comics. Truth is, they wouldn't touch Sandman. Threw all the cliched 'pretentious' insults at it. Got a good few with Preacher though. This may speak more to the kind of people I was working with than the merits of the books, I don't know.

All that aside, Preacher/Sandman isn't an either/or for me. I enjoyed them both immensely.
It doesn't mean that round my way
Pessimism is Realism - Optimism is Insanity
The Impossible Quest
Musings Of A Nobody
Stuff I've Read

Mike Gloady

Quote from: BoJirch on 16 September, 2009, 09:16:27 PMPreacher- The fight between Cassidy and Jesse. In fact, drokk it, the entire last TPB of Preacher. ... Preacher is without a shadow of a doubt the best comic ever written.
Quote from: Mike Gloady on 17 September, 2009, 10:37:34 AM...there are HUNDREDS of better comics out there than Preacher.  But it is reasonably good fun.
I'm glad you inserted the "to me" in that comment, BoJirch - that's what set me off in the first place.  I only originally commented to perhaps question your UNQUESTIONING placement of Preacher at the top of the comic book tree.  Although in my eagerness to point that out, I failed to insert the appropriate modifier myself - ah hubris!
Quote from: BoJirch on 17 September, 2009, 04:26:22 PMYou fail to mention any. To me it really is the best comic.
Oh, lists?  We're doing LISTS now?  ;-p

Well mine would include, off the top of my head: V for Vendetta, Batman: The Killing Joke, Lone Wolf & Cub, Sandman, Akira, Transmetropolitan, Maus, Alice in Sunderland, Tale of One Bad Rat, Batman: The Long Halloween, Miller's Daredevil, Stan Lee & Steve Ditko's Spider-Man, Watchmen, FreakAngels, Love & Rockets and large swathes of Twoth (specifically Dredd, Nemesis, Strontium Dog, Nikolai Dante, Slaine, Leviathan, Caballistics Inc., The Ballad of Halo Jones and Button Man).  That list could be twice as long.

I know there are a few superhero books there and I have said a lot about my dislike of the genre - these books are just so good that they got around me.  That little lot, and Preacher for that matter, have tons of goosebumpage for your enjoyment (if I could be bothered I'd get a link to the Ennis written tribute to Twoth where he just lists TONS of excellent moments). 

Like I say, it's all personal taste.  Nice chatting with you BoJirch.
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Colin YNWA

Quote from: faplad on 18 September, 2009, 01:05:28 AM
Quote from: The Cosh on 18 September, 2009, 12:35:08 AM

I don't think your argument holds much water though. Irrespective of the quality, wasn't Sandman's impact and popularity largely down to the extent to which it drew in a non comics reading audience?

My surefire path for gettin a non-reader into comics would be: Asterix -> DR & Quinch's Guide to Life -> Leviathan -> The Mighty Kev -> Everything else.

Ypu may be right about sandman. I can only speak from my own experience. I spent many years trying to subtly influence my colleagues into reading comics. Truth is, they wouldn't touch Sandman. Threw all the cliched 'pretentious' insults at it. Got a good few with Preacher though. This may speak more to the kind of people I was working with than the merits of the books, I don't know.

All that aside, Preacher/Sandman isn't an either/or for me. I enjoyed them both immensely.

I've found a couple of times now that Hate has worked batter than Watchmen as the gateway comic of choice. The people I gave Watchmen too struggled a little with the Superhero thing while trying to work out how to read comics. Were as Hate was something storywise they related to much easier and so they could concentrate more on relearning how to read comcis.

Dandontdare

I think Mr Godpleton talks great sense above. it was DK returns that's responsible for me buying ANY further DC comics - known character suddenly revealed as cool and interesting! And Morrison has produced some amazing stuff - I still can't decide if The Filth is genius, or has tipped over into madness!

HdE

Just to jump in on this point (when I really should be sleeping...)

Quote from: radiator on 18 September, 2009, 12:31:44 AM
The Akira comics are astonishing. One thing I've never worked out - Otomo didn't draw the whole thing himself did he? It seems impossible that one guy could have drawn it all - he must have had a whole team just doing the speed lines, surely?

Yes indeedy-doodly-doo. He did indeed do it all by himself.

Mind you, the guy was by that point a qualified architechtural draughtsman. If you look at the amount of environmental art in that book, I'd say it was a pretty safe wager that he'd learned to do that stuff QUICKLY. I don't know to what extent computers were being used in manga back in 1982 - there's a lot of tone in those books.

And didn't Steve Oliff do a magnificent job on the Marvel editions? An awesome colour job indeed. Really services the story well.
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Tiplodocus

QuoteI still can't decide if The Filth is genius, or has tipped over into madness!
Can't it be both?
Be excellent to each other. And party on!

BoJirch

Alrite,
My lack of reply is due to my work taking away the internet! assholes.
To the response below (Save Ferris shirt guy... Weird- as I also used to listen to this ska band many moons ago), I have read plenty of comics thank you very much, and assure you that I genuinely enjoy Preacher. Whilst a lot of 'new' comics readers may as well, surely that speaks volumes about the overall greatness of the comic as it can appeal to both genre fans and newcomers alike? I agree with you on Dillon's Dredd work (the werewolf story is 110% badass) but I feel the preacher artwork suited the punky  style of preacher, as it lends itself to the trashy style of the comic, which disguises  several complex themes. I much prefer this style of art to the increasingly  ICT based coloring approach seen in modern comics.
I also enjoy DKR, and also its sequel as I love Miller's artwork. In particular his trippy visuals as exemplified in the TPB vol 7 of Sin City. Is his other output any good? Obviously DD is a laugh but I have seen some weird robot based story's and am undecided whether to buy that, rogue trooper or get into Charley's war(I feel that one purchase in this series will lead to many!?)
Anyway, no hard feelings, I genuinely love Preacher, and as I say am always on the look out for decent comics. Unfortunatley my new uni course is eating into valuable reading time.
Peace out


Paul faplad Finch

#103
Quote from: Colin_YNWA on 18 September, 2009, 12:28:38 PM
so they could concentrate more on relearning how to read comcis.

I read this and thought nothing of it and then I heard discussion of it in a comics podcast I occasionally listen to that has a segment where they try to convert non readers. It made me think.

Does anyone really have the problem of not knowing how to read comics? With the exception of the Beano and a few old Battles of my Grandads I never read comics as a little kid. Then I discovered 2000ad at about 14/15. The thought of 'how to read it' never entered my head. I just read it.

I mean, as a medium that was ,at least until relatively recently, predominately aimed at kids,  just how hard is it to master, do we think?

Not trying to disrespect anyone on this, I'm just genuinely interested. As I said earlier in this thread, I spent a long time trying to convert my friends with vaying success but of the ones who didn't bite the reason they gave was never "I don't get how to follow the story in this form"

Side note, I've just had to hit edit on this cos it posted itself while I was mid sentence. Anyone know why this might have happened?
It doesn't mean that round my way
Pessimism is Realism - Optimism is Insanity
The Impossible Quest
Musings Of A Nobody
Stuff I've Read

HdE

[posting when he should be sleeping!]

That's an interesting post Faplad, and it raises an equally interesting point.

I actually believe that comics can be difficult to understand at times, in the respect that their communication is sometimes difficult to grasp. There's a definite method of reading the things, which sometimes doesn't jibe with what makes sense.

By example, I recently read a couple of Cowboy Bebop manga. I enjoyed the show and the movie a lot, so I wanted more of the same. Trouble is, these books were REALLY hard to read. The page layouts and reading order of panels frequently didn't make sense to me.

Initially, I wrote that off as bad design and layout. But a little later on, I did a bit of research into the conventions of manga, and realised that it was just down to me not really grasping the way the Japanese approach the flow of their comics.

Sometimes, I'll read a western graphic novel and I'll find that I'm equally as confused as I was with the manga. I think sometimes, when reading a comic book, you have to be on the ball and paying attention to the way things are flowing.


(This post is dedicated to anybody who had to read a double page spread in a graphic novel twice, because they didn't realise they were meant to be 'reading in widescreen!')
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