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General Chat => Film & TV => Topic started by: Tjm86 on 20 September, 2018, 09:12:29 PM

Title: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Tjm86 on 20 September, 2018, 09:12:29 PM
Maybe it's the fact that I've just finished binge watching Capaldi's last season and been pleasantly surprised but I find myself incredibly ambivalent about the trailer BBC have just released.  I know it's just a teaser and it's hard to take it too seriously with Whittaker constantly waving the sonic screwdriver at the camera but there's something 'off' about it for me that I can't quite put my finger on ....

The worst thing about this is that with all of the fan boy rage over the casting, it's going to be hard to be appropriately critical about the finished product.  Even in the short segments we see in the trailer Whittaker's Dr appears nowhere near as commanding as Capaldi's.  Is that a conscious decision to go with a differently gendered approach to 'crisis management' that ignores standard cliches about women in authority?  Is it a mistake on the part of writers who have fallen into cultural stereotypes? 

I know that early days with a new regeneration are always 'peculiar'.  Colin Baker's first few episodes had him as a complete twonk.  Capaldi was a dithering idiot to start with.  Could it be the 'regeneration reset'?

I do hope that I'm over reading / interpreting what they've released.  Certainly will give it a shot and see what it is like.  Let's face it, whoever the actor in the hot seat there have always been quality episodes and ropey ones.  Even Tom Baker had his share of clunkers.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Steve Green on 20 September, 2018, 10:01:09 PM
One thing I really don't agree with is the switch to a wider aspect ratio.

The argument they've given is to make it look more 'cinematic' - but it's a TV show.

Even for a cinematography nerd like me, it feels a bit unnecessary, like they're a bit ashamed of it.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Colin YNWA on 20 September, 2018, 10:08:36 PM
More importantly - now with added Sheffield.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Taryn Tailz on 20 September, 2018, 10:16:10 PM
Quote from: Tjm86 on 20 September, 2018, 09:12:29 PM
Even in the short segments we see in the trailer Whittaker's Dr appears nowhere near as commanding as Capaldi's.  Is that a conscious decision to go with a differently gendered approach to 'crisis management' that ignores standard cliches about women in authority?  Is it a mistake on the part of writers who have fallen into cultural stereotypes? 

Chris Chibnall was quoted this week as saying that the scripts for this series were originally written for a male Doctor, so hopefully that won't be the case. Which should be proof, not that anyone around here needs it I'm sure, that the Doctor's gender makes zero difference to the essential character.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Funt Solo on 20 September, 2018, 10:37:29 PM
Trailer Linky (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCt6f1Ttmy4)

I don't mind what gender the Doctor is, but a Yorkshire accent?  It's not exactly tiffin, what?
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 20 September, 2018, 10:51:58 PM
I have to confess that despite being very enthusiastic for a new show runner and a female Doctor, the trailer has left me a bit cold. Plus, I'll be in New York when the first episode airs, so I won't get to see it 'live'... :-/
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: GordonR on 20 September, 2018, 11:18:55 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 20 September, 2018, 10:37:29 PM
Trailer Linky (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XCt6f1Ttmy4)

I don't mind what gender the Doctor is, but a Yorkshire accent?  It's not exactly tiffin, what?

"Lots if planets have a North."
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: dweezil2 on 20 September, 2018, 11:23:05 PM
Quote from: Colin YNWA on 20 September, 2018, 10:08:36 PM
More importantly - now with added Sheffield.

Hoping for a Def Leppard appearance!  :o
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Taryn Tailz on 21 September, 2018, 12:01:46 AM
I hope that little snatch of music that plays at the very end of the video (after the 'please subscribe' message) is a sneak peek at the new theme tune, cos it sounded great.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Tjm86 on 21 September, 2018, 06:16:04 AM
Quote from: Taryn Tailz on 20 September, 2018, 10:16:10 PM
[ ... ] Which should be proof, not that anyone around here needs it I'm sure, that the Doctor's gender makes zero difference to the essential character.

You know what, I'm not sure that I'd completely agree with that.  I mean, I know what you're saying but at the same time I don't know if we should be ignoring this dimension.  Let's face it, at present gender identity is a significant issue.  The right to identify your own gender but also how that gendered identity is constructed and how it influences us as individuals.  How we are treated and what opportunities are available.  These are important topics that I would argue apply to all of us.

That being the case then, I'm all for the idea of this dimension of identity being explored.  At the same time, I'd hate to see it descend into cliches.  That to me would be the worst possible outcome.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 21 September, 2018, 09:08:28 AM
Quote from: Tjm86 on 20 September, 2018, 09:12:29 PM
The worst thing about this is that with all of the fan boy rage over the casting, it's going to be hard to be appropriately critical about the finished product.

Too right.  Nothing really grabbed me about that trailer,  other than a vague feeling that Whitaker was basing her Doctor on the superb Martha Howe-Davies-off-of-Horrible-Histories.

Then YouTube figured I might be interested in Irish vlogger Dave 'Forever Computing' Cullen's thoughts on the matter. 

Somehow I have lived in happy ignorance of the hideous stain on my country that Cullen represents, but suffice to say if I hold any opinion, moral position or belief, Cullen holds the perfect,  loudly repeated, opposite. So after his rigorous expert analysis of the past,  present and future of Dr Who (based,  as far as I could tell, on the past two seasons alone. ..) I am now rendered incapable of doing anything but wholeheartedly championing the coming season.

Twat.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: wedgeski on 21 September, 2018, 09:17:15 AM
It's certainly cinematic. I can't wait to see JW's take on the Doctor, but my only concern is that the trailers say absolutely nothing about the companions, and they're going to be so crucial to the final quality of the show.

I wasn't the biggest fan of Capaldi's tenure, although I did greatly enjoy many of his episodes, so a change of style isn't exactly a turn-off.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: IndigoPrime on 21 September, 2018, 09:54:31 AM
I think she'll be great whatever. My concerns rest with Chris Chibnall's previous Who work being extremely variable, and the weird decision to shoe-horn in three companions, thereby presumably reducing the Doctor's screen time somewhat. (As for the earlier comment about approach, that always changes. But also I get the sense many people are sick of the Doctor's overly authoritarian approach over the past two generations, and so could do with that being toned down a bit.)

New bloke behind the music too. Let's hope he and his team understand the basics of mixing.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Steve Green on 21 September, 2018, 10:10:47 AM
Maybe one is there just to be killed off in episode 2?
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Tiplodocus on 21 September, 2018, 11:27:51 AM
I'm sick and tired of that Cullen dickfer showing up as recommended after I watch anything genre based that has a hint of diversity/equality. The thumbnail and titles are enough to put me off. Feck knows how much I would get if I actually clicked on one of his vids while logged in.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 21 September, 2018, 11:34:11 AM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 21 September, 2018, 11:27:51 AM
I'm sick and tired of that Cullen dickfer showing up as recommended after I watch anything genre based that has a hint of diversity/equality. The thumbnail and titles are enough to put me off. Feck knows how much I would get if I actually clicked on one of his vids while logged in.

It ain't good,  I'll tell you that much.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Steve Green on 21 September, 2018, 11:34:34 AM
Not heard of him thankfully, but it definitely seems like the youtube algorithms skew suggested content towards these sort of videos.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Tiplodocus on 21 September, 2018, 12:01:22 PM
Back on topic... i recall quite liking Capaldi's last season so it was annoying to have him move on. However, that trailer looked like New Who but also different. So that's good. I hope.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Tjm86 on 21 September, 2018, 09:32:02 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 21 September, 2018, 09:54:31 AM
decision to shoe-horn in three companions, thereby presumably reducing the Doctor's screen time somewhat. (As for the earlier comment about approach, that always changes. But also I get the sense many people are sick of the Doctor's overly authoritarian approach over the past two generations, and so could do with that being toned down a bit.)

TBH this was the bit that got me most, the relationship between the companions and the Doctor.  I can appreciate the point about the authoritarianism of the last few regenerations, Capaldi in particular, but at the same time I do wonder if this is a bit of a setup for Whittaker.

Would a transition from domineering to relational be such an issue if this was between two male regenerations?  Would a Doctor that was so willing to engage with companions as equals be such an issue if it is a male doctor? 

For me this is the most powerful aspect of this decision.  It foregrounds assumptions about control and authority and how they relate to authority, how we respond to direction from certain individuals depending on their gender.  Ultimately it throws up perceptions of control and authority. How do we define 'authoritarian' and how is our understanding affected by the gender of the individual in control.

I wonder if this is worth reflecting on in terms of the characters that inhabit the worlds of the publication we support.  How do we receive the portrayal of Hershey for instance as opposed to Dredd?  How does her performance compare to the Chief Judges that have gone before her?  What about Durham Red, Naimh, Anderson?  Let's face it, Halo Jones stood out because of her gender.  Was Sam Slade's failure because she looked too much like her forebears ?
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Professor Bear on 21 September, 2018, 11:48:36 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 21 September, 2018, 11:27:51 AM
I'm sick and tired of that Cullen dickfer showing up as recommended after I watch anything genre based that has a hint of diversity/equality. The thumbnail and titles are enough to put me off. Feck knows how much I would get if I actually clicked on one of his vids while logged in.

Click on the three dots on the top right corner of the thumbnail to bring up the mini menu for that vid, then choose "not interested", which will stop the video ever turning up again in your recs, but then pick "tell us why" and select "I am not interested in this channel" and that will ensure you never get any of his other vids showing up, either.

YT is a great place for content, but you have to take a personal hand in making sure turds stay out of your recs - I know people like to read sinister Nazi-recruiting/conservative propagandising reasons into the Youtube recs algorithm, but it's not designed to judge the content, only its broad relevance to your past interests.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Tiplodocus on 22 September, 2018, 12:19:29 AM
Cheers Prof. I tend to watch on telly so that's not quite so easy but I will give it a go.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Dandontdare on 22 September, 2018, 12:56:17 AM
I agree with tjm about the number of companions -maybe they weren't confident enough that a female doctor can carry it alone. I have always felt that the 'multi-companion' phases have been the weakest - Harry Sullivan, Turlough, Nissa, Adric, Mickey - it's always best when it's one on one, and the Doctor HAS to be the strong, driving force.

Also, if it does turn out to be a bit shit, it's going to be so hard to say so without validating all those tosspots who have already decided that its part of of the ZOG globalist feminazi conspiracy.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Definitely Not Mister Pops on 22 September, 2018, 01:52:51 AM
I already miss the old days, when you could criticise Doctor Who, online, without any backlash.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 22 September, 2018, 09:29:59 AM
Quote from: Mister Pops on 22 September, 2018, 01:52:51 AM
I already miss the old days, when you could criticise Doctor Who, online, without any backlash.

:lol:
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Magnetica on 22 September, 2018, 09:45:42 AM
Quote from: Steve Green on 20 September, 2018, 10:01:09 PM
One thing I really don't agree with is the switch to a wider aspect ratio.

The argument they've given is to make it look more 'cinematic' - but it's a TV show.

Even for a cinematography nerd like me, it feels a bit unnecessary, like they're a bit ashamed of it.

Yes I'm with you on that. It's going to be lost on my 32 inch telly. :(

There really is no need, what it results in is losing some screen real estate.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Steve Green on 22 September, 2018, 10:37:50 AM
Yeah, I get that they want to make it look slick, different etc. but not everyone has a 60" TV, and 16:9 was settled on as a standard for a reason.

It also makes any trailers on social media even crappier since they tend to be a square format, so you're going to have to crop half of the pic.

I love the look of anamorphic lenses and that ratio for film, but I think it's serving a minority of viewers.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Bad City Blue on 22 September, 2018, 05:01:01 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 21 September, 2018, 09:08:28 AM
Quote from: Tjm86 on 20 September, 2018, 09:12:29 PM
The worst thing about this is that with all of the fan boy rage over the casting, it's going to be hard to be appropriately critical about the finished product.

Too right.  Nothing really grabbed me about that trailer,  other than a vague feeling that Whitaker was basing her Doctor on the superb Martha Howe-Davies-off-of-Horrible-Histories.

Then YouTube figured I might be interested in Irish vlogger Dave 'Forever Computing' Cullen's thoughts on the matter. 

Somehow I have lived in happy ignorance of the hideous stain on my country that Cullen represents, but suffice to say if I hold any opinion, moral position or belief, Cullen holds the perfect,  loudly repeated, opposite. So after his rigorous expert analysis of the past,  present and future of Dr Who (based,  as far as I could tell, on the past two seasons alone. ..) I am now rendered incapable of doing anything but wholeheartedly championing the coming season.

Twat.

I discovered him last week through looking for Who stuff on youtube.

Twat is a very polite way of puttin it.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 22 September, 2018, 05:26:48 PM
I mentioned Cullen to my 12 year-old son by way of a paternal cautionary tale about not listening to unsavoury nutters on You-Tube - and he responded in the weary, despairing tones of youth: "oh Dad, you haven't been watching that idiot".  So that at least was reassuring.

I take Bear's point about tweaking my YouTube experience through 'not interested's, which I do a lot of, but my experience has been that (for example) watching a lot of Star Wars content means I keep getting served up the same kind of spittle-filled beard action no matter how many times I try to persuade it to filter out wanker content.  I imagine the situation is similar (worse?) for Dr Who. 
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Taryn Tailz on 22 September, 2018, 06:33:24 PM
Quote from: Dandontdare on 22 September, 2018, 12:56:17 AM
I have always felt that the 'multi-companion' phases have been the weakest - Harry Sullivan, Turlough, Nissa, Adric, Mickey - it's always best when it's one on one, and the Doctor HAS to be the strong, driving force.

Now, I've always considered the team of the 4th Doctor, Sarah, and Harry to be one of the definitive TARDIS teams, with Harry being an absolute delight. But that's one of the joys of Doctor Who; every character and story is somebody's favourite.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Funt Solo on 22 September, 2018, 09:12:55 PM
Of course we've already had the definitive Doctor Who (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do-wDPoC6GM), so why bother making any more?
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: JOE SOAP on 22 September, 2018, 10:16:02 PM
Quote from: TordelBack on 22 September, 2018, 05:26:48 PM
I mentioned Cullen to my 12 year-old son by way of a paternal cautionary tale about not listening to unsavoury nutters on You-Tube


The red-headed stepchild of YouTube Ireland.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: ABCwarBOT on 23 September, 2018, 02:35:19 AM
Am I allowed to say I think it looks absolutely cringeworthy?
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Funt Solo on 23 September, 2018, 04:24:44 AM
Quote from: ABCwarBOT on 23 September, 2018, 02:35:19 AM
Am I allowed to say I think it looks absolutely cringeworthy?

No.  Wait, yes!  There is of course the potential that it would be more interesting if you added some meat of reason to your potatoes of cringe.  That is: what about the trailer makes you cringe? 

Was it the lens flare?
(https://i.imgur.com/Kbg3FfH.png)

The quarry?
(https://i.imgur.com/3PHko19.png)

The goggles?
(https://i.imgur.com/C8dFRzy.png)
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 23 September, 2018, 01:15:14 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 23 September, 2018, 04:24:44 AMThere is of course the potential that it would be more interesting if you added some meat of reason to your potatoes of cringe.  That is: what about the trailer makes you cringe? 

You're being overly thoughtful (and generous) there, Funt: it was the dreaded Feeemale, and nothing else.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Leigh S on 23 September, 2018, 07:05:56 PM
I'm wary of Chibnall (and basically anyone else within 100m of the Torchwood production office when they signed off "Cyberwoman"), but I stand to be pleasantly surprised.

The only problem I have wwith that trailer is the Moffatty "I'm the Doctor and I fix things/always help" odd self description - does any one do this in real life? Still, they are the sort of lines that get taken out of context for trailer and sound odder than they do in their proper place, so we shall see!
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 24 September, 2018, 03:09:41 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 23 September, 2018, 07:05:56 PM
I'm wary of Chibnall (and basically anyone else within 100m of the Torchwood production office when they signed off "Cyberwoman"), but I stand to be pleasantly surprised.
To be fair, that WAS over a decade ago and Chibers has written some absolute gems since. 42 and The Power of Three are some of my favourite of the revived series.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Taryn Tailz on 24 September, 2018, 03:28:59 PM
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 24 September, 2018, 03:09:41 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 23 September, 2018, 07:05:56 PM
I'm wary of Chibnall (and basically anyone else within 100m of the Torchwood production office when they signed off "Cyberwoman"), but I stand to be pleasantly surprised.
To be fair, that WAS over a decade ago and Chibers has written some absolute gems since. 42 and The Power of Three are some of my favourite of the revived series.

This comment really just proves my earlier statement that one of the joys of Doctor Who is how every story is somebody's favourite, even the less successful ones. Both '42' and 'The Power of Three' were roundly panned by critics and fans alike - with 'The Power of Three' generally being considered to be one of the worst episodes of the revival - but they still have their champions.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 24 September, 2018, 03:36:22 PM
Quote from: Taryn Tailz on 24 September, 2018, 03:28:59 PM
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 24 September, 2018, 03:09:41 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 23 September, 2018, 07:05:56 PM
I'm wary of Chibnall (and basically anyone else within 100m of the Torchwood production office when they signed off "Cyberwoman"), but I stand to be pleasantly surprised.
To be fair, that WAS over a decade ago and Chibers has written some absolute gems since. 42 and The Power of Three are some of my favourite of the revived series.

This comment really just proves my earlier statement that one of the joys of Doctor Who is how every story is somebody's favourite, even the less successful ones. Both '42' and 'The Power of Three' were roundly panned by critics and fans alike - with 'The Power of Three' generally being considered to be one of the worst episodes of the revival - but they still have their champions.
To extend this to Classic Who, The Dominators is glorious, and Paradise Towers needs reevaluating.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Taryn Tailz on 24 September, 2018, 04:26:41 PM
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 24 September, 2018, 03:36:22 PM
Quote from: Taryn Tailz on 24 September, 2018, 03:28:59 PM
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 24 September, 2018, 03:09:41 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 23 September, 2018, 07:05:56 PM
I'm wary of Chibnall (and basically anyone else within 100m of the Torchwood production office when they signed off "Cyberwoman"), but I stand to be pleasantly surprised.
To be fair, that WAS over a decade ago and Chibers has written some absolute gems since. 42 and The Power of Three are some of my favourite of the revived series.

This comment really just proves my earlier statement that one of the joys of Doctor Who is how every story is somebody's favourite, even the less successful ones. Both '42' and 'The Power of Three' were roundly panned by critics and fans alike - with 'The Power of Three' generally being considered to be one of the worst episodes of the revival - but they still have their champions.
To extend this to Classic Who, The Dominators is glorious, and Paradise Towers needs reevaluating.

I certainly agree with you in regards to 'Paradise Towers'. That story is really rather good and deserves pretty much none of the derision it receives. 'The Dominators' on the other hand is such a complete betrayal of the ethos of the entire show that it was no wonder the production team at the time decided to cut it short by an episode. Fortunately, the very next story was 'The Mind Robber', which is just about the most Doctor Who-y story there is.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: ABCwarBOT on 25 September, 2018, 02:36:22 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 23 September, 2018, 04:24:44 AM
Quote from: ABCwarBOT on 23 September, 2018, 02:35:19 AM
Am I allowed to say I think it looks absolutely cringeworthy?

No.  Wait, yes!  There is of course the potential that it would be more interesting if you added some meat of reason to your potatoes of cringe.  That is: what about the trailer makes you cringe? 

Was it the lens flare?
(https://i.imgur.com/Kbg3FfH.png)

The quarry?
(https://i.imgur.com/3PHko19.png)

The goggles?
(https://i.imgur.com/C8dFRzy.png)



Well I think a female Doctor's a bad idea full stop anyway but I think this Youtube video sums most of it up (and the comments below)..............


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbCqPCy0ihk
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 September, 2018, 04:40:09 AM
Quote from: ABCwarBOT on 25 September, 2018, 02:36:22 AM
Well I think a female Doctor's a bad idea full stop anyway but I think this Youtube video sums most of it up (and the comments below)..............
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbCqPCy0ihk

Interesting video, although I think it's apparent that the maker has pre-judged things based on the casting of a female doctor.  If one thinks a female doctor is a terrible idea driven by an out of control liberal agenda, then it probably doesn't matter which actress is chosen to play the part: the decision about whether or not you'll enjoy it has already been made.

The guy's main complaint seems to be (on the strength of a 4-minute trailer) that Jodie Whittaker is demonstrably a bad actor.  I don't understand how he concludes that from the evidence, but it makes complete sense if you factor in the pre-judgement.  Given that he's already decided to hate it, one wonders why he doesn't find something to do in life that he might like.

He complains about her accent as well, but that's just elitist, isn't it?  And he complains about her making a gurny face, but my favorite Doctor quite often pulled some amazing fizzogs.  We can compare:




Tom BakerJodie Whittaker
(https://i.imgur.com/tReKgTc.png)  (https://i.imgur.com/YuOVUwp.png)

It can't be any worse than David Tennant, can it?  All that running around and shouting like he's hopped up on PCP.  Sorry: that's probably someone's favorite (Doctor, not drug).
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 September, 2018, 05:23:13 AM
I had so much fun tracking down pictures of gurning Doctors that I turned it into a sport.  Here are the first twelve, no doubt reacting on hearing the news that they were going to change genders when they regenerated the 13th time. 

(https://i.imgur.com/QzPIBPr.png)

A mixture of emotions.  I'm sure I can track down the angry fan videos people made about how none of these people could act.  I bet when Eccleston got the gig there were a few complaints from the upper class about how he was a Time Lord, not a Time Lout, and so on.

By the way: pretty difficult to find a picture of Peter Davison looking anything other than pretty smartly put together and a bit like a human Labrador.  Also, difficult to find any of Sylvester McCoy or David Tennant not making odd faces.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 25 September, 2018, 06:55:43 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 25 September, 2018, 04:40:09 AMAnd he complains about her making a gurny face, but my favorite Doctor quite often pulled some amazing fizzogs.

Having facial expressions is just one step removed from talking out loud,  and nobody wants a woman to do that.  They should just sit quietly there with their tits out (unless they're feeding a baby,  which is disgusting), attending to domestic chores.  Anything else is just screechy SJW nonsense being rammed down our throats by,  I dunno,  George Soros?
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: GordonR on 25 September, 2018, 07:59:46 AM
QuoteI bet when Eccleston got the gig there were a few complaints from the upper class about how he was a Time Lord, not a Time Lout, and so on.

I remember listening to someone with a broad working class Geordie accent complaining on their Doctor Who podcast about the casting of Eccleston, because he looked and sounded too common and Northern.

Boy, did that guy have issues.  Not as many as ABCwarBOT, obviously.  But, still....issues.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: JOE SOAP on 25 September, 2018, 08:27:43 AM
It's only common sense that men have the innate ability to camp-it-up, but when women do it, it's just bad acting.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: IndigoPrime on 25 September, 2018, 08:57:22 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 25 September, 2018, 04:40:09 AMThe guy's main complaint seems to be (on the strength of a 4-minute trailer) that Jodie Whittaker is demonstrably a bad actor.
On the basis of Attack the Block alone, that argument can be hurled into the bloody sea.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 25 September, 2018, 09:30:30 AM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 25 September, 2018, 08:57:22 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 25 September, 2018, 04:40:09 AMThe guy's main complaint seems to be (on the strength of a 4-minute trailer) that Jodie Whittaker is demonstrably a bad actor.
On the basis of Attack the Block alone, that argument can be hurled into the bloody sea.

Reasoned argument doesn't get you 6K+ subscribers. Claim that illogically shoehorning incompetent women and gays into everything is a soy-based socialist conspiracy to commit white genocide and Bob's yer uncle.  But never your aunt.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: IndigoPrime on 25 September, 2018, 09:35:39 AM
To be fair, now I think about it, he probably also didn't watch Attack the Block, given that it's SJW DIVERSITY WAAAAH or something. (Mrs G and I rewatched this quite recently with friends from the US who'd never seen it before. They thought it was great.)
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 25 September, 2018, 10:34:22 AM
I lot of people seem to forget that time Romana regenerated into a 4 foot tall blue woman, and i'm sure thats more of a stretch to Time lord regeneration cycles than cross gender transitioning. Especially considering the later has happened multiple times in the EU and the former...'checks'....yeah, not even once again.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: IndigoPrime on 25 September, 2018, 10:53:24 AM
It's like Thor, isn't it? People losing their fucking minds about Thor as a WUMMUN, but it's fine for him to be a frog or an alien. Just as long as they have a penis! That is all that matters!
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 25 September, 2018, 11:27:14 AM
I don't think you get it,  IP.  Women,  gays and non-whites are simply inferior and unrepresentative of the real world,  where only straight white blokes do anything worthwhile: that other lot are only good for fucking, interior design and cleaning toilets .  They are only cast in these things to appease the PC overlords.  Frogs,  space aliens,  Frankensteins, cyborgs, these are all included due to demonstrable individual merit, not liberal agenda fiat. You can't have equality without quality.

Christ, I should get myself a YouTube channel.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: ABCwarBOT on 25 September, 2018, 11:55:50 AM
Quote from: TordelBack on 25 September, 2018, 11:27:14 AM
I don't think you get it,  IP.  Women,  gays and non-whites are simply inferior and unrepresentative of the real world,  where only straight white blokes do anything worthwhile: that other lot are only good for fucking, interior design and cleaning toilets .  They are only cast in these things to appease the PC overlords.  Frogs,  space aliens,  Frankensteins, cyborgs, these are all included due to demonstrable individual merit, not liberal agenda fiat. You can't have equality without quality.

Christ, I should get myself a YouTube channel.


That's a total exaggeration.  Most people are just saying they don't like the idea of a female doctor so  please don't twist thngs around.  Nobody has to apologise for not wanting to see a female doctor. 
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 25 September, 2018, 11:56:32 AM
Your victim complex is showing ABCwarBOT.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: ABCwarBOT on 25 September, 2018, 12:01:24 PM
Quote from: Hawkmumbler on 25 September, 2018, 11:56:32 AM
Your victim complex is showing ABCwarBOT.


Funny I don't feel like a victim.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Tiplodocus on 25 September, 2018, 12:14:20 PM
Quote from: ABCwarBOT on 25 September, 2018, 11:55:50 AM
Most people are just saying they don't like the idea of a female doctor...

But why? There is literally no good reason to bring gender into the casting of this fictional character who can transform. None. Canon, as quoted above, proves the character can be any gender. So if you can't provide a good reason, we can only assume bad ones.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Bolt-01 on 25 September, 2018, 12:18:18 PM
Maybe if it was retitled to Nurse Who?

(Mind, in my experience it is actually the nurses who know what to do in the A&E and make sure the doc's don't get in the way...)
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 25 September, 2018, 12:24:09 PM
Quote from: ABCwarBOT on 25 September, 2018, 11:55:50 AMNobody has to apologise for not wanting to see a female doctor.

But asserting as incontrovertible fact that an established actress isn't able for the part that at least 15* male actors have played on the basis of a few minutes of shouty BBC trailer, as that YouTube drivel does? That's okay?

You're perfectly entitled not to like the concept, and even the casting.  But you're citing aspects of a hugely misogynistic online culture to explain why.


*A very conservative estimate.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 25 September, 2018, 12:33:08 PM
We're also over looking the fact the Doctor HAS been a woman before. Jut not OUR Doctor.
(https://nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/Curse-of-Fatal-Death-2-615x346.jpg)
(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/tardis/images/d/d9/Exile_front_cover.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20171206191942)
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: ABCwarBOT on 25 September, 2018, 12:42:54 PM
Lumley was good as a spoof/joke Doctor on Comic Relief.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 25 September, 2018, 01:35:26 PM
I must confess that I'm another one who really doesn't want to see a female Doctor, and won't be watching the new series as a result. Dr Who is franchise, a brand, and it's long since stopped being one of which I feel compelled to experience *everything*. In much the same way as I love Marvel Studios movies, but don't see any reason to watch all the ones produced by other license holders, this doesn't feel like the Dr Who I want to watch, so I won't.
See also 'Class' and The Sarah Jane Adventures. And Torchwood Miracle Day. Or the vast majority of the tie-in novels Dr Who has generated along with the audios or the comics.
While I agree the "canon" has been retrofitted to allow for Time Lord gender swaps, this has come largely from the work of Steven Moffat, and frankly I'd much rather he had never gotten his hands on the show in the first place. He ran it into the ground and for me at least, killed it stone dead.
The combination of Chibnall and Whittaker is, I'm afraid, not my bag.

SBT
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 25 September, 2018, 01:45:05 PM
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 25 September, 2018, 01:35:26 PM
While I agree the "canon" has been retrofitted to allow for Time Lord gender swaps, this has come largely from the work of Steven Moffat,
If by largely you mean Missy and that one General, then not really? Eldrad, a half Time Lord, regenerated across genders, that was 1976 under Baker and Martin. David Warners alternative 3rd Doctor regenerated into Arabella Weir in the Unbound audios at BF, and a major supporting character in the interference saga of Books regenerated from a male to a female mid way through the saga. It was an old concept by the time Moffat through his hat into the ring.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 25 September, 2018, 02:10:35 PM
What? Eldrad from the Hand of Fear? I don't remember him being "half timelord". Does that come from fan fiction?
And as for the others- yes, but Moffat did it first in Curse of Fatal Death (1999), and they riffed off that. Possibly Lawrence Miles got there first with Interference (dates of TV Curse script and manuscript for novel unknown) but that wouldn't be the only instance of "The Moff" pinching Miles's ideas.

SBT
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 25 September, 2018, 02:17:02 PM
Now this ^^^ is an informed discussion. More like this,  please.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 25 September, 2018, 02:23:17 PM
Quote from: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 25 September, 2018, 02:10:35 PM
What? Eldrad from the Hand of Fear? I don't remember him being "half timelord". Does that come from fan fiction?
Your forgetting Eldrads motivation in that story was to become whole and gain immortality, and he imbued himself with some of the Doctor DNA, becoming half Time lord and regenerating in the story.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 25 September, 2018, 04:10:10 PM
I'm, I'm pretty sure that's not actually the plot of The Hand of Fear. Eldrad regenerates through the use of radioactivity- first from the microscope, then the reactor and finally on Kastria. It's cellular regeneration, not necessarily with bodily change- he patterns himself on Sarah at first, but later adopts his "true form" (male) before dying. I'm struggling to remember any absorbing of the Doctor's DNA or becoming "half timelord".

SBT
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Leigh S on 25 September, 2018, 04:47:23 PM
I am trying not to watch the video, as I suspect my blood pressure will rise, but I'm not about to harangue anyone entirely for thinking the idea is potentially at odds with the show so far, albeit if you take a fairly close minded approach to it.

In continuity, I'm not a fan of throwing EU stuff about as validation for the change, adn to be fair it is a change, in the sense that theDoctor has chosen to regenerate 12 or so times as a man (and a white man at that, but that's another kettle of fish!).  It isnt a stretch to explain that though - if I relly needed a head cannon ecue for why it's taken so long, well his first set of regens is overand he is now in a second set - maybe the first set were restricted by the Timelords, being a bunch of fuddy duddy conservative types who didnt like the idea of Time Lords changing gender?  Or maybe it's because this new set of regenerations are unusual because they stem from Matt Smiths Doctor gaining a huge does of mixed gender regeneration energy at the end of his cycle in that (admittedly not very enjoyable to me) story a few years back?

Out of continuity, I understand the instinctive gut idea that geeky young boys are potentially losing one of the very few non violent role models they had - certainly a lot of the appeal of the series to young me may well have rested on a hero who tries to outthink his opponents rather than outgun them. James Bond and David Beckham are not going to fill that hole.  But here's the thing, young girls havent had that role model at all, and it doesnt stop all the previous Doctors being there, fulfilling that role - think of it as sharing ratehr than losing and it becomes something quite wonderful

Of course, in practice, there will probably be a lot to annoy me about new Who, as there has been since Tennant came a gurning, but if you cn;t see some merit in either of those above attempts to make you think more kindly on the idea, then ask yourself why it is a problem -if the answer i the same as some ranting incels answer, then I'd suggest keep thinking
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: IndigoPrime on 25 September, 2018, 04:59:30 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 25 September, 2018, 04:47:23 PMBut here's the thing, young girls havent had that role model at all, and it doesnt stop all the previous Doctors being there, fulfilling that role - think of it as sharing ratehr than losing and it becomes something quite wonderful
Quite. Not least when you see videos parents took of their daughters watching the reveal and going nuts on seeing that hood come down. "The Doctor's a girl now – JUST LIKE ME!"

Frankly, it's about time.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Greg M. on 25 September, 2018, 05:58:28 PM
Quote from: Leigh S on 25 September, 2018, 04:47:23 PM
Out of continuity, I understand the instinctive gut idea that geeky young boys are potentially losing one of the very few non violent role models they had - certainly a lot of the appeal of the series to young me may well have rested on a hero who tries to outthink his opponents rather than outgun them. James Bond and David Beckham are not going to fill that hole.  But here's the thing, young girls havent had that role model at all

Most role-models for young girls tend to out-think their opponents, rather than outgun them, surely? I wouldn't have thought it was a rarity in the world of heroines, in quite the same way it is for male heroes.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Leigh S on 25 September, 2018, 06:05:36 PM
Well possibly that is true in a generality, though the field for scifi action heroines probably includes more kick ass Buffy characters than it does geeky misfits - More Barbarella's than Barbs (Justice for Barb!)
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: IndigoPrime on 25 September, 2018, 06:38:57 PM
Quote from: Greg M. on 25 September, 2018, 05:58:28 PMMost role-models for young girls tend to out-think their opponents, rather than outgun them, surely? I wouldn't have thought it was a rarity in the world of heroines, in quite the same way it is for male heroes.
Like Leigh says, it's not that simple. And within a certain sector of entertainment, women are still primarily a token member who has to be all things to everyone. Also, the balance in mainstream media is still woeful when it comes to gender. Honestly, I'd be a bit hmmm if James Bond was a woman. That doesn't make any sense. But the Doctor, a shapeshifting alien who can regenerate their entire form during death? Yeah, I'm OK with that. Moreover, millions of young girls will be too. (And for anyone out there getting sad at little boys having nothing to watch, hey, perhaps they can still watch this show, just as girls and women so often end up watching male-driven shows for much of the time – especially in the fields of SF and fantasy.)
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Greg M. on 25 September, 2018, 07:02:30 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 25 September, 2018, 06:38:57 PM
Moreover, millions of young girls will be too.

We'll see. I think that's wildly optimistic on your part - not for a second do I imagine the number of girls getting into Who will equal the number of boys dropping out (or failing to get into it.) Whilst I appreciate that you are not concerned with what boys will or won't watch, I think it is very unrealistic to imagine they will be able to identify with this particular take on a female Doctor, or to expect them to make that leap. Leigh S has earlier suggested that they'll still have access to the back-catalogue of male Doctors, but without the gateway drug of their "own" Doctor, I can't see them delving in.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: IndigoPrime on 25 September, 2018, 07:44:45 PM
My point is more that we as a people need to get over content 'for boys' or 'for girls' based on the protagonist. It is a deeply problematic thing that in the long run causes massive problems for women, for all kinds of reasons. There is no good reason why shows lead by one gender cannot be watched and enjoyed by the other. But while girls are typically content to take in media featuring boys, the reverse is fare less the case. Given what I've been going through with media here, with the youngling, it's easy to see why – even from the very earliest children's books, everything is astonishingly heavily weighted against female protagonists.

Perhaps I'm being idealistic. I don't know. But I'm fucking sick of the way things work for kids right now, am pissed off at the way in which the world treats girls, and really want things to change. For me, the new Doctor Who just feels like a tiny step in the right direction, for what we all know is going to be a very limited period of time. (My guess: two series, tops. There is zero chance the next regeneration will be to a woman.)
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Greg M. on 25 September, 2018, 08:52:53 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 25 September, 2018, 07:44:45 PM
My point is more that we as a people need to get over content 'for boys' or 'for girls' based on the protagonist. It is a deeply problematic thing that in the long run causes massive problems for women, for all kinds of reasons. There is no good reason why shows lead by one gender cannot be watched and enjoyed by the other.

Surely it's just human nature though, for boys to gravitate towards male heroes and girls to gravitate towards female ones, on the basis of ease of identification? I agree that girls – typically far more emotionally intelligent – find it easier to identify with male heroes than boys do with female ones, but that's sort of my point: I don't think what you want is realistic for younger boys. Again, I appreciate you have a daughter, not a son, so that's not where your priorities lie. And of course it's important that girls have their heroes, of all different varieties, but I don't think that a very rare example of an intellectual, non-violent male hero has to be removed as a result. Give the girls a new hero who'll be truly their own, not a repurposed and repackaged male character.

Quote from: IndigoPrime on 25 September, 2018, 07:44:45 PM
For me, the new Doctor Who just feels like a tiny step in the right direction, for what we all know is going to be a very limited period of time. (My guess: two series, tops. There is zero chance the next regeneration will be to a woman.)

Of course, recasting back from a woman to a man could be seen a controversial and retrograde step, removing what will by then have become a high-profile female role. However, depending on the ratings, my gut instinct is that the show may be given a rest post-Whittaker. I think Chibnall's been given a "kill or cure" mandate after the plummeting ratings of the Capaldi era, hence the BBC's willingness to gamble on a female Doctor and various format changes.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Funt Solo on 25 September, 2018, 10:47:25 PM
Given where the discussion is now, I was trying to think of female protagonists I enjoyed as a boy.  (Of course, given the comparative lack of roles for women, the list to choose from is shorter). 

Still, there's The Wizard of Oz, The Sound of Music, The Railway Children, Mary Poppins, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Press Gang and Xena.  Actually, being honest, I found Mary Poppins too saccharin, but I loved all the others.

I don't really buy the idea that boys cannot appreciate a female protagonist.  Can anyone point to a study that would prove that, rather than just opinion?  (I'm not trying to score points: I just like to follow science.)

So I don't buy the posited idea that Doctor Who, by changing gender, is stealing something from the collective male childhood experience. 

Edit: IndigoPrime - have you tried Ronia the Robber's Daughter?  My daughter loves that - it's a book and a series (with English narration by Gillian Anderson) by Studio Ghibli.  Oh, and she also loves Kiki's Delivery Service.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Frank on 25 September, 2018, 11:43:15 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 25 September, 2018, 10:47:25 PM
The Wizard of Oz, The Sound of Music, The Railway Children, Mary Poppins, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Press Gang and Xena

I ate up Little House On The Prairie, Heidi, and Anne Of Green Gables, too. I can't remember whether Black Beauty was a stallion or a mare, but it was definitely a girls' show. Loved it, wore out the soundtrack (https://youtu.be/8u5NgC4lZ8s) album.

Marmalade Atkins, Belle & Sebastian - I thought Vicky The Viking and Tripitaka from Monkey were girls. My favourite Playschool presenter was Floella Benjamin, primarily because her hair clacked when she moved her head, but I'm taking the woke points anyway.

And that's just obviously kid-centred stuff. Cagney & Lacey, Roseanne (especially Darlene), and Samantha from Bewitched were all favourites. The most enjoyable characters in soaps - Elsie Tanner, Mrs Mangle, Alexis Carrington - were ladies of a certain age. In film, Scarlett O'Hara and Bette Davis kicked just as much ass as Ripley and tank top/shotgun Linda Hamilton.

For all I know, my friends were the same. We wouldn't have admitted it.


Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: M.I.K. on 25 September, 2018, 11:47:19 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 25 September, 2018, 10:47:25 PM
Given where the discussion is now, I was trying to think of female protagonists I enjoyed as a boy.  (Of course, given the comparative lack of roles for women, the list to choose from is shorter).

Charlie's Angels, Wonder Woman, The Bionic Woman, one half of Sapphire and Steel, one half of Scarecrow & Mrs. King, Miss Marple, Jessica Fletcher, Ellen Ripley, Emma Peel, Tara King, Leela from Doctor Who, Nancy Drew (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJzYiob_HK0), Super Gran...
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Greg M. on 26 September, 2018, 05:24:42 AM
Two points.

1: I was talking about role-models. The thread seems to have turned into a game of "name a tv show you watched that had a woman in it." I'm not saying you didn't watch Charlie's Angels as a boy. But in most cases, I don't think you grew up wanting to be Wonder Woman.

2: In accordance with the above, I think there's a difference between boys reading or watching stories starring other children, and stories starring adult women. I read Wizard of Oz same as the rest of you, because it was about a child having exciting adventures in a magical land. But whilst Dorothy Gale might have been a kindred spirit, she was not someone to look up to – not because of her gender, but because she was a kid, same as me.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Funt Solo on 26 September, 2018, 06:09:38 AM
Taking those two points.

1. I didn't grow up wanting to be Maria (from The Sound of Music), but I also didn't grow up wanting to be Doctor Who: but they're still both role models for me.  Maria is kind, strong-willed and hates Nazis.  Doctor Who is an eccentric problem solver.  (Charlies Angels and Wonder Woman, the television shows, aren't examples I'd have used, because they both use scantily clad women doing high kicks that otherwise seem like ciphers.  I'm not sure what I'd be aspiring to.  You could also place He-Man in this category.)  I don't think gender factors into whether or not I find someone personally inspiring.

2. I don't think age factors into whether or not I find someone personally inspiring.  Dorothy Gale is brave and investigative: that's someone to look up to.  What's age got to do with it?

(My six-year old daughter told me the other day she wanted to put racism in the trash.  It's a bit naive, perhaps, but I still find her passion inspiring.)
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Greg M. on 26 September, 2018, 07:07:25 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 26 September, 2018, 06:09:38 AM
What's age got to do with it?

I don't think I'm saying anything particularly controversial when I suggest that children look up to adults – that, in a nutshell, is what age has to do with it. I am not saying that positive female figures are not important in the lives of boys: I think they are. I am simply saying – and again, I don't think this is especially controversial – that boys often want to model their behaviour on that of older boys or men, and in that respect, the Doctor has been a good role-model. You may not have wanted to grow up to be the Doctor, but I did. (Well, the Doctor and Indiana Jones and John Steed and Luke Skywalker, or some combination thereof.)
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: IndigoPrime on 26 September, 2018, 08:53:03 AM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 25 September, 2018, 10:47:25 PMEdit: IndigoPrime - have you tried Ronia the Robber's Daughter?  My daughter loves that - it's a book and a series (with English narration by Gillian Anderson) by Studio Ghibli.  Oh, and she also loves Kiki's Delivery Service.
Thanks for the tips – I'll stick some of those on our list.

Quote from: Greg M. on 26 September, 2018, 05:24:42 AMI think there's a difference between boys reading or watching stories starring other children, and stories starring adult women.
Although the two are linked. Boys are effectively trained at a young age to be little shits to girls, and that they shouldn't do "girly" things because that's seen as weakness. Also, if I hear "boys will be boys" again when they're being little arseholes, I may brain someone. (No: YOU let these boys act like this, because, in a cyclical fashion, "boys will be boys". When four year old boys are, for example, screaming at our local pre-school that GIRLS AREN'T ALLOWED in areas of the play area, that is not fucking healthy.) This is the problem at that age, but it in many cases extends into adulthood – blokes that won't watch a rom-com because "that's the the missus", even if it's funny and a good story. Anything girly is seen as weak rather than an alternative experience. And when women gravitate towards male-dominated areas, they are often ostracised or ridiculed. (See how many female fans of comics are told they OBVIOUSLY don't really know what's what, and aren't real fans.)

Again, my problem with all of this is that these things are massively skewed. It's notable in SF that whenever people talk about favourite female characters, the same ones get trotted out a lot more than male ones, purely on the basis that there are far fewer to choose from. What's perhaps even more surprising to many people – because they just don't look for these things – is that if you randomly took 100 children's books from a local library, I'll bet at least 75 per cent would have male protagonists (and that's being charitable). Male is the default in media. That is the problem. That is what leads us to places where we have many movies where it's perfectly normal for the vast majority of the cast to be male, and even background crowd scenes to be 75 per cent male.

Whether Doctor Who will thrive with a female Doctor remains to be seen. But giving that series a female lead for the first time doesn't strike me as anything other than a positive step in what's, after all, a fantasy show about an alien that can regenerate.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 26 September, 2018, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 26 September, 2018, 08:53:03 AMMale is the default in media. That is the problem. .

If there was a single sentence that I could instill in the minds of everyone engaged in debates like these,  it's this one. This is the issue: to be male is to be normal,  to be female is to be other, and frequently lesser.

If you believe this situation is wrong, then representation is the only way it will be addressed.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Bolt-01 on 26 September, 2018, 09:52:57 AM
Seconded.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: M.I.K. on 26 September, 2018, 02:41:11 PM
Quote from: Greg M. on 26 September, 2018, 05:24:42 AMBut in most cases, I don't think you grew up wanting to be Wonder Woman.

Maybe not, but I distinctly remember spinning round in circles and deflecting bullets with my wristbands.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Leigh S on 26 September, 2018, 03:54:48 PM
Tordelback gets to the heart of it - boys may be habituated to the universe shining othe spotlight on them, but it's a habit that will only change when we stop making assumptions - girls and minorities have had to scrabble around for representation or go with Harry Potter/Luke Skywalker as their go to role model  - if ti was just as easy as "get your own role model", why has Star Wars fandom imploded when they did that very thing with Rey and Finn?

My daughter is 9 and whenever we have watched Bake Off/Painting Challenge type programmes, she immediately decides the youngest and prettiest woman is her favourite, so I accept that there is an element of human nature that makes us want to see "ourselves"  - but that just makes the case stronger for pushing for even greater range of representation.


Quote from: TordelBack on 26 September, 2018, 09:05:47 AM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 26 September, 2018, 08:53:03 AMMale is the default in media. That is the problem. .

If there was a single sentence that I could instill in the minds of everyone engaged in debates like these,  it's this one. This is the issue: to be male is to be normal,  to be female is to be other, and frequently lesser.

If you believe this situation is wrong, then representation is the only way it will be addressed.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Steve Green on 27 September, 2018, 04:22:59 PM
Short interview with the new composer, sounds like they might be going back to the original Delia Derbyshire/Ron Grainer track in tone, which would be nice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3GNaLeS0kE&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3GNaLeS0kE&feature=youtu.be)
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: IndigoPrime on 27 September, 2018, 04:51:16 PM
Well, that sounds pretty positive. One thing I am looking forward to is an absence of Murray Gold.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Colin YNWA on 27 September, 2018, 10:09:09 PM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 27 September, 2018, 04:51:16 PM
Well, that sounds pretty positive. One thing I am looking forward to is an absence of Murray Gold.

So, so true. His music was so forced overpowering.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Steve Green on 27 September, 2018, 10:13:30 PM
I'm hoping for something a bit less showy/OTT
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: ABCwarBOT on 27 September, 2018, 10:57:06 PM
They're trying nearly every trick in the book now to try and get all the pissed off fans back on board.   Increasing the budget, going back to the original type music and bringing in a well known game show host that has a female following to boost the ratings.

   
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 27 September, 2018, 11:00:45 PM
Quote from: ABCwarBOT on 27 September, 2018, 10:57:06 PM
and bringing in a well known game show host that has a female following to boost the ratings.

You know he has proper acting credentials, and even a link to Who via the Sarah Jane adventures, right? It might, just might, not be the conspiracy you think it is.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 27 September, 2018, 11:03:18 PM
Walsh killed it in Law and Order: UK, a constant in a middling series. Dude will be alright.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: JOE SOAP on 27 September, 2018, 11:21:20 PM
Quote from: ABCwarBOT on 27 September, 2018, 10:57:06 PM
They're trying nearly every trick in the book now to try and get all the pissed off fans back on board.   Increasing the budget, going back to the original type music and bringing in a well known game show host that has a female following to boost the ratings.

Not sure changing camera lenses to anamorphic is that much of a budget increase. If they did have a significant budget increase (doubt they did) it would be to attract a larger global audience, not to suck-off older males.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: ABCwarBOT on 30 September, 2018, 04:34:15 AM
Quote from: JOE SOAP on 27 September, 2018, 11:21:20 PM
Quote from: ABCwarBOT on 27 September, 2018, 10:57:06 PM
They're trying nearly every trick in the book now to try and get all the pissed off fans back on board.   Increasing the budget, going back to the original type music and bringing in a well known game show host that has a female following to boost the ratings.

Not sure changing camera lenses to anamorphic is that much of a budget increase. If they did have a significant budget increase (doubt they did) it would be to attract a larger global audience, not to suck-off older males.



There's an increase in cgi for a start which isn't cheap...............

http://sciencefiction.com/2018/08/30/new-series-doctor-will-feature-cgi-ever/


as for sucking off older males..........Bradley Walsh.......Jodie......know what I mean nudge, nudge. :lol:



Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Hawkmumbler on 30 September, 2018, 08:28:28 AM
Grow up.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 30 September, 2018, 09:01:07 AM
I'm still not sure why trying new things to appeal to the audience is a crime for a popular family TV programme. My understanding of the history of art and entertainment is that this is 99% of it.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: IndigoPrime on 30 September, 2018, 09:44:27 AM
ABCwarBOT: pack it in or the next message you get will be a DM from an admin.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: ABCwarBOT on 30 September, 2018, 10:22:25 AM
Quote from: IndigoPrime on 30 September, 2018, 09:44:27 AM
ABCwarBOT: pack it in or the next message you get will be a DM from an admin.


Ok.   What did I say that's worse than other things that have been said on here before?   It's just a bit of humour.  Have some people lost their sense of humour?   It wasn't me who use that term first.   
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 30 September, 2018, 10:25:28 AM
Joe introduced it an abstract metaphorical sense,  you used it in reference to two actual human beings.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: ABCwarBOT on 30 September, 2018, 10:35:13 AM
Quote from: TordelBack on 30 September, 2018, 10:25:28 AM
Joe introduced it an abstract metaphorical sense,  you used it in reference to two actual human beings.


But other people have made references to other people in all sorts of ways on here?
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Greg M. on 30 September, 2018, 11:28:46 AM
It's starting to sound like you're playing the victim card. If you want to advance an argument about why you feel changes to the show are potentially a bad idea, you should do so. I have. But any such argument is cheapened if you resort to misogynistic innuendo and reduction of actresses to sex objects. (What was the joke, exactly? Jodie sucks off Bradley? That's funny because...?)
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Funt Solo on 30 September, 2018, 09:27:34 PM
Quote from: ABCwarBOT on 30 September, 2018, 10:22:25 AM
Ok.   What did I say that's worse than other things that have been said on here before?   It's just a bit of humour.  Have some people lost their sense of humour?   It wasn't me who use that term first.

I hear you, I hear you: Joe making a metaphorical reference to sucking off older males was pretty explicit.  It certainly made me prick up my ears.  It probably isn't the kind of thing you'd choose to mention orally.  I mean, if you were in polite company, you probably wouldn't let that come out of your mouth.

But: reducing the first female Doctor to a provider of oral relief for someone twenty-two years her senior is taking it to a far more obviously careless level.

For practice: read Finbarr Saunders in Viz. Everything's innuendo except for the final frame of the episode.

As a final thought to ponder: one octopus, several octopi; one compass, several compi.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: ABCwarBOT on 30 September, 2018, 10:49:59 PM
Quote from: Funt Solo on 30 September, 2018, 09:27:34 PM
Quote from: ABCwarBOT on 30 September, 2018, 10:22:25 AM
Ok.   What did I say that's worse than other things that have been said on here before?   It's just a bit of humour.  Have some people lost their sense of humour?   It wasn't me who use that term first.

I hear you, I hear you: Joe making a metaphorical reference to sucking off older males was pretty explicit.  It certainly made me prick up my ears.  It probably isn't the kind of thing you'd choose to mention orally.  I mean, if you were in polite company, you probably wouldn't let that come out of your mouth.

But: reducing the first female Doctor to a provider of oral relief for someone twenty-two years her senior is taking it to a far more obviously careless level.

For practice: read Finbarr Saunders in Viz. Everything's innuendo except for the final frame of the episode.

As a final thought to ponder: one octopus, several octopi; one compass, several compi.


But you could argue it's sexist against older males too.   We'll leave talk about Jodie but there's nothing at all wrong with a younger woman going with an older man as long as she's not being forced or anything else dodgy.   
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 30 September, 2018, 11:10:19 PM
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, JUST STOP TALKING.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Tiplodocus on 01 October, 2018, 12:10:34 AM
Yes. Bad form. Do not try and defend that sort of "humour".
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Tiplodocus on 01 October, 2018, 12:12:54 AM
And as Tordels  says, your complaint is basically "How dare they try and make Doctor Who look more entertaining?"

Do you realise how stupid that sounds?
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: JamesC on 02 October, 2018, 09:50:54 PM
Be this good or bad it's going to be down to the quality of the scripts. The cast are all more than capable but I fear they may not be served well by the material they have to work with.
Ever the case with Doctor Who really.
The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Andy B on 04 October, 2018, 06:17:23 PM
Quote from: Tiplodocus on 01 October, 2018, 12:12:54 AM
And as Tordels  says, your complaint is basically "How dare they try and make Doctor Who look more entertaining?"

Do you realise how stupid that sounds?

This kind of thing is why it pays to stay off Dr Who forums.

I like that the trailers are fairly vague about what's actually going to happen. I've never known less about a new series before it starts, and that's exciting.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Steve Green on 05 October, 2018, 09:24:08 AM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DosE-CzW0AEtSZa.jpg)

Sounds like a planet from Strontium Dog.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Andy Lambert on 05 October, 2018, 09:34:28 AM
Quote from: Andy B on 04 October, 2018, 06:17:23 PM
I like that the trailers are fairly vague about what's actually going to happen. I've never known less about a new series before it starts, and that's exciting.

This. ^^^
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: IndigoPrime on 05 October, 2018, 10:27:09 AM
Yep. I felt the trailer was a bit flat, but I do like its vagueness. I'm sick of watching trailers (especially for movies) where you get to the end and think: well, I don't need to bother watching that now.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: TordelBack on 07 October, 2018, 07:53:44 PM
Well that wasn't too bad!  Bit of a downer there at the end,  and it felt like a pretty tired retread of a plot,  but generally I enjoyed it, and the new cast.  So are they going to try to rescue the [spoiler]trophies[/spoiler]?

Whitaker doing a decent Eccleston on occasion too!
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Colin YNWA on 07 October, 2018, 07:59:50 PM
It was solid with added Sheffield.

Pretty typical of first stories for new Doctors they tend to be easier stories to allow room for characters to be introduced. And therefore the fact that the characters where decent is pretty good. We all need time to settle in to all the new stuff but that was a fine start.

Glad to be back on board.
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Andy Lambert on 07 October, 2018, 08:03:13 PM
Yeah, that's my Doctor...! 😀
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Colin YNWA on 07 October, 2018, 08:05:28 PM
Should we get the new series a new thread so we can move on from... the other stuff?
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Andy Lambert on 07 October, 2018, 08:07:37 PM
Works for me
Title: Re: New Dr Who Trailer
Post by: Leigh S on 07 October, 2018, 08:08:32 PM
Yeah I enjoyed that, bar some odd accents/acting - is Ryan meant to be a Brummie? Very much an Eccleston era vibe, which is no bad thing

anyway, could we give the episode (or at least the series) it's own thread, like in the old days when people seemed to have something to say about Dr Who? Then I can ask why the DNA bombs? :P