2000 AD Online Forum

2000 AD => Website and Forum => Topic started by: The dude on 01 January, 2017, 11:33:16 am

Title: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: The dude on 01 January, 2017, 11:33:16 am
Fellow Dredd heads, I was pondering the recent rejuv ole Dreddie has just had. Do any of think this will drop kick any further talk within continuity of his slowing down,  it being as quick etc and put paid to any potential retirement/death as his body now alledgedly younger and fitter. I believe it is a bit of a cop out as this has been such a big part of Dredds story line for the last 20 plus years starting with the Murphs death and then one of episode of him being in the bath at his Rowdy Yates appt and his internal monologue mentioning all his aches and pains. I would really like to start an in depth discussion around this recent move on the part of Rebellion
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 01 January, 2017, 01:25:15 pm
You do know this isn't his first rejuve?

I get the distinct impression the aches and pains are in his soul.
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Frank on 01 January, 2017, 01:48:21 pm
You do know this isn't his first rejuve?

You just made that up (https://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php?topic=44013.msg940646#msg940646).

They went for a fudge, whereby Dredd's skin and muscles are new - so he can get in fights and doesn't look like Keith Richards - but his bones and some of his organs are still 73. If someone wants to make Dredd's age a plot point again, I suppose he can grumble about his small colon, or something.

JOE SOAP thinks there's mileage in Dredd still having an old brain, but I'm not sure the world is ready for a story where Dredd fights his way across 2000 miles of irradiated wasteland, battling muties, McDonalds clowns, and robot soldiers, only to forget what he went to Megacity two for in the first place.


Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: The dude on 01 January, 2017, 02:46:47 pm
I know of only one other rejuvenate and that was to repair the damage done to him after necropolis, wasn't there also some mention of drugs taken by all Judges accept PSI to help keep them functional as they got older? I still believe they are copping out on Dreddie getting really old and not being able to carry on
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Frank on 01 January, 2017, 04:49:15 pm
I know of only one other rejuvenate and that was to repair the damage done to him after necropolis

Wasn't a rejuve. See the replies to your previous thread (https://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php?topic=44013.msg940646#msg940646) on this topic.

Anderson made a passing remark to not being able to take "the standard anti-ageing pills" [1], which some readers interpret as meaning anti-ageing drugs are issued as standard ... rather than Anderson saying she can't take just any old anti-ageing drugs.

Even if you're wedded to that interpretation of that one passing reference, neither Dredd, Hershey, nor any of the medics Dredd has consulted over the years have ever mentioned Dredd taking them. Also, anti-ageing drugs aren't really a thing in Dredd [2].


[1] Lock-in, Meg 227 (http://i.imgur.com/Z3snLQQ.png). This is just one of the many things from Grant's Anderson strips which are never mentioned again in Wagner's Dredd strips

[2] There's stookie. That might be an example of the non-standard anti-ageing pills Anderson would be able to take without interfering with her psi-talent. If it wasn't illegal
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Leigh S on 01 January, 2017, 05:22:00 pm
I know of only one other rejuvenate and that was to repair the damage done to him after necropolis

Wasn't a rejuve. See the replies to your previous thread (https://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php?topic=44013.msg940646#msg940646) on this topic.

Anderson made a passing remark to not being able to take "the standard anti-ageing pills" [1], which some readers interpret as meaning anti-ageing drugs are issued as standard ... rather than Anderson saying she can't take just any old anti-ageing drugs.

Even if you're wedded to that interpretation of that one passing reference, neither Dredd, Hershey, nor any of the medics Dredd has consulted over the years have ever mentioned Dredd taking them. Also, anti-ageing drugs aren't really a thing in Dredd [2].


[1] Lock-in, Meg 227 (http://i.imgur.com/Z3snLQQ.png). This is just one of the many things from Grant's Anderson strips which are never mentioned again in Wagner's Dredd strips

[2] There's stookie. That might be an example of the non-standard anti-ageing pills Anderson would be able to take without interfering with her psi-talent. If it wasn't illegal


Though they did synthesise Stookie substitute from Rad Roaches in a Daily Star Dredd ( Though Dredd predictavly vetoes it)
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Richard on 01 January, 2017, 05:44:26 pm
I think the point of Carousel was to put this issue off for a few more years, as nobody wants to deal with it in the way that you suggest.
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 01 January, 2017, 06:05:41 pm
Wasn't a rejuve. See the replies to your previous thread (https://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php?topic=44013.msg940646#msg940646) on this topic.

You keep asserting this as if it was a fact, and you need to stop.
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Trout on 01 January, 2017, 06:14:49 pm
Yeah. Speculation is fun, but it doesn't pay to get too tangled in continuity when it comes to Dredd. Remember the strip can just change abruptly if the right creator gets bored.
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Frank on 01 January, 2017, 06:33:35 pm
Wasn't a rejuve. See the replies to your previous thread (https://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php?topic=44013.msg940646#msg940646) on this topic.

You keep asserting this as if it was a fact, and you need to stop.

You need to stop telling other people what to say or do. If you want to argue the point, feel free. I linked to my reasoning above (https://forums.2000adonline.com/index.php?topic=44013.msg940646#msg940646) and backed it up with references (http://i.imgur.com/JSTXoXF.png).

None of this matters, since Carousel (http://i.imgur.com/3W1sc4D.png) (Meg 375) was definitely a rejuve, but the best argument Dredd didn't have a rejuve until Carousel is that he didn't look any younger and went on moaning about getting old.


Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: The dude on 01 January, 2017, 06:56:18 pm
Further to new my told that he has. Ever has had a rejuv before, it clearly shows after Necropolisthat he did. That is a fact. Moving on from that I am more curious if this means they are binning the Dredd is old and will not be around forever backstory and attempt to attempt a soft recon
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: M.I.K. on 01 January, 2017, 07:32:40 pm
topic=44013.msg940646#msg940646]above[/url] and backed it up with references (http://i.imgur.com/JSTXoXF.png).

The wording of "This is no simple rejuve job." doesn't preclude the possibility that part of the procedure involved some kind of rejuvenation process. In fact, it could be argued that the procedure may have left Dredd in better condition than if he'd only been rejoovied.

Moving on from that I am more curious if this means they are binning the Dredd is old and will not be around forever backstory and attempt to attempt a soft recon

I doubt they'll bin it entirely without something drastic happening.
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Frank on 01 January, 2017, 08:08:45 pm
Further to new my told that he has. Ever has had a rejuv before, it clearly shows after Necropolisthat he did. That is a fact.

I provided an argument, with supporting evidence, that he didn't. If you want to dispute that argument, citing your own evidence, this would be a discussion.

Young Giant (655), the last time Dredd creator Carlos Ezquerra drew the character prior to Necropolis (link (http://i.imgur.com/uw88D74.jpg)).

Death Aid (711), the first time Dredd creator Carlos Ezquerra drew the character after Necropolis (link (http://i.imgur.com/ETWTvQw.png)).

Look the same. Here's a picture of what Dredd creator Carlos Ezquerra thought a twenty year old Dredd looked like (Kraken (http://i.imgur.com/HQBkAtf.jpg), 674). Looks different*.


* If there was a single line of dialogue that supported the idea Dredd had age-negating treatment at any point prior to Carousel (Meg 375), someone would be quoting it right now. The medics who examined Dredd in Sector House (prog 1216), Dust To Dust (Meg 374), and Carousel (Meg 375) mention arthritis, his implants, and his age, but not that time he became twenty again, or the pills he takes that keep him twenty forever.
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Smith on 01 January, 2017, 08:21:20 pm
Yeah,I dont think he got any younger after Necropolis.Thou,its not always easy to say by the chin.
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 01 January, 2017, 08:26:27 pm
You need to stop telling other people what to say or do. If you want to argue the point, feel free.

I did argue the point: that it's ludicrous to suggest that the artificial regeneration of damaged tissue would have no restorative effects. I'm not arguing it again, because you didn't have a good rebuttal then, and you don't have one now. You think otherwise, and that's fine. I, and others, hold a different point of view, hence my advice that you stop asserting your belief as incontrovertible.
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Frank on 01 January, 2017, 08:33:42 pm
above (http://topic=44013.msg940646#msg940646) and backed it up with references (http://i.imgur.com/JSTXoXF.png).

The wording of "This is no simple rejuve job." doesn't preclude the possibility that part of the procedure involved some kind of rejuvenation process. In fact, it could be argued that the procedure may have left Dredd in better condition than if he'd only been rejoovied.

It may have done so, M.I.K, but no character in the strip or any of the writers or editorial ever mentioned it. John Wagner was asked about the ageing question any time he gave an interview or spoke at a convention; never once did he say to remember that time he knocked twenty years off the character's age.

Wagner wasn't shy about spelling out exactly what Dredd being fitted for bionic implants entailed (prog 406 (http://i.imgur.com/SDqgDrU.png)), but never even says Dredd feels better post-Necropolis. I think the reason he didn't is because the treatment only repaired the damage to Dredd's skin (the machine is labeled DERMA (skin) GRAF (as in skin graft). Dredd had a skin graft after Necropolis.


Moving on from that I am more curious if this means they are binning the Dredd is old and will not be around forever backstory and attempt to attempt a soft recon

I doubt they'll bin it entirely without something drastic happening.

Yep. They've gone for a half way house, where he still has old bones and organs (except for his lungs) (Carousel (http://i.imgur.com/3W1sc4D.png), Meg 375).


Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: M.I.K. on 01 January, 2017, 08:38:27 pm
Yep. They've gone for a half way house, where he still has old bones and organs (except for his lungs) (Carousel (http://i.imgur.com/3W1sc4D.png), Meg 375).

Which is what I always used to assume would be the case with a rejuve job anyway.
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Greg M. on 01 January, 2017, 08:51:44 pm
It may have done so, M.I.K, but no character in the strip or any of the writers or editorial ever mentioned it.

I seem to recall Tharg responding to a letter on the subject of Dredd's age with the suggestion that the post-Necropolis rejuve might have knocked 10-15 years off it. But that's not within the story itself, of course. I presume that in regards to the page you link to from Prog 711 to where the other judges discuss Dredd's rejuve, you're suggesting that they're merely speculating?
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Frank on 01 January, 2017, 09:05:06 pm
I presume that in regards to the page you link to from Prog 711 (http://i.imgur.com/ETWTvQw.png), where the other judges discuss Dredd's rejuve, you're suggesting that they're merely speculating?

Yeah, all they* know is Dredd looked like a kebab; now he doesn't. Interesting memory regarding the letter ...


* Or Garth Ennis
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: JOE SOAP on 01 January, 2017, 10:45:37 pm
Has the process of rejuve ever been more than cosmetic before Mike Carroll's recent story?

The Carousel process implies that this particular cellular rejuvenation of most of the body, in one go, is a relatively new treatment.


Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Leigh S on 01 January, 2017, 11:00:02 pm
The concept of rejuve as a total reversal of aging as opposed to cosmetic... Stookie is illegal, where else have we seen rejuve as a "thing" in Dredd?  I'm racking my brains.  Surely every rich citizen would be young if it was simply a matter of cost -yet wesee a lot of old rich cits (PJ Maybe last mark springing to mind most recently, along with that Steve Dillon special story with the old lady with the walled garden...
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Frank on 01 January, 2017, 11:03:27 pm
.
AL Ewing and Andrew Currie's* A House For Aldous Mayou (http://i.imgur.com/Ta49LGR.png) (1699) figures complete cellular reversal of the ageing process as a scientific breakthrough. That was six years ago.


* EDIT: PJ Holden, even
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: JOE SOAP on 01 January, 2017, 11:06:35 pm
Stookie is illegal

Stookie is ephemeral and merely an effect of rejuvenation rather than physical youth itself.

Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Leigh S on 02 January, 2017, 09:27:49 am
Stookie is illegal

Stookie is ephemeral and merely an effect of rejuvenation rather than physical youth itself.

Indeed, and if there was a more permanent alternative in a rejuve, then that would always win out, you would think.  When is the term rejuve first used in Dredd and in what context?
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Frank on 02 January, 2017, 11:12:56 am
When is the term rejuve first used in Dredd and in what context?

The Day The Law Died, part 3 (prog 89 (http://i.imgur.com/gz9GtFp.png))*. Obviously doesn't work - Goodman has a face like Theresa May's ball sack.


* Credit to Steve Green for the original spot. It's not a story I know well
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 02 January, 2017, 11:18:11 am
The Day The Law Died, part 3 (prog 89 (http://i.imgur.com/gz9GtFp.png))*. Obviously doesn't work - Goodman has a face like Theresa May's ball sack.

Plainly not cosmetic, then. What's the point, if not to allow him to continue to perform his duties by alleviating the effects of advancing age?
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: M.I.K. on 02 January, 2017, 03:11:28 pm
Could still be mainly cosmetic. He's the face of Justice Department, it's mainly a desk job, and Grud knows what he'd look like if he wasn't getting the treatments.
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Frank on 02 January, 2017, 04:39:36 pm
He's the face of Justice Department, it's mainly a desk job, and Grud knows what he'd look like if he wasn't getting the treatments.

When we first see Goodman (in Origins (http://i.imgur.com/wj2i0S6.png)), it's 2051 and he already looks mid-thirties (at least). That would make him between 85-100 when Cal pulls a drive-by on his saggy, old ass.


Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Frank on 02 January, 2017, 10:24:28 pm
(Does anyone) think this will (stop) any further talk within (the strip) of ...

1/ his slowing down

2/ any potential retirement

3/ death

In summary:

1/ Only if the writers choose to do so. Dredd's currrently young on the outside and old on the inside; like Carol Vorderman.

2/ Yes. The limited information readers have been given about the technology suggests that Dredd could, in theory, continue in his job indefinitely.

3/ No. From the perspective of the strip's fictional reality, there are still a small number of scenarios where Dredd could die a violent death in circumstances that preclude medical intervention.

From Tharg's point of view, there are a small number of scenarios where the death of the character might be an option.


Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: The dude on 02 January, 2017, 10:50:52 pm
After reading some excellent discourse from the forum I am more or less convinced that the Old Man Dredd arc is going to change me to nothing unless Mr Wagner comes back for one more Mega epic with the ultimate stakes/sacrifice for Ole Stony Face
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: TordelBack on 03 January, 2017, 12:38:08 am
I'm afraid that at this point, and probably for several decades now, Dredd's ultimate fate or lack thereof is inextricably linked to the golden eggs the Teks find in his sleep machine each morning.
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: sheridan on 09 August, 2017, 12:37:52 pm
"a person in their 70s would be as biologically healthy as a 50 year old" (http://www.pensionsage.com/pa/BLOG-Live-longer-No-thanks-the-state-pension-age-will-go-up.php)
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: JLC on 10 August, 2017, 10:52:26 pm
Slightly OT but. What about Anderson? How old is she now? She can't rejuv can she being a PSI-Judge?
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Steve Green on 13 August, 2017, 06:58:25 pm
59 - I'm sure I've seen her DOB been given as 2080.

It would have made her 22 in the first Judge Death story.
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: JLC on 13 August, 2017, 07:26:19 pm
59 - I'm sure I've seen her DOB been given as 2080.

It would have made her 22 in the first Judge Death story.
Thank you x
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Steve Green on 13 August, 2017, 08:13:05 pm
You're welcome!
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Apestrife on 23 August, 2017, 07:35:02 pm
Even if he got a new set of skin, I still think he looked quite worn in "War buds".

I imagine his aging (just like Anderson's) will move back and forth depending on who's writing and drawing the strip.
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Frank on 23 August, 2017, 07:55:21 pm
Even if he got a new set of skin, I still think he looked quite worn in "War buds".

I imagine his aging (just like Anderson's) will move back and forth depending on who's writing and drawing the strip.

Carousel (Meg 375) struck me as getting something out of the way, rather than a bold statement of intent. 'You need it explained, here - happy now?'

I assume that was the point of making it just one episode in a comic only a few thousand folk read. It's there for anyone who needs or likes that kind of thing; everyone else can clear their throat and carry on as they were.


Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Apestrife on 23 August, 2017, 08:23:36 pm
Even if he got a new set of skin, I still think he looked quite worn in "War buds".

I imagine his aging (just like Anderson's) will move back and forth depending on who's writing and drawing the strip.

Carousel (Meg 375) struck me as getting something out of the way, rather than a bold statement of intent. 'You need it explained, here - happy now?'

I assume that was the point of making it just one episode in a comic only a few thousand folk read. It's there for anyone who needs or likes that kind of thing; everyone else can clear their throat and carry on as they were.

It's a bit like what Grant Morrison said about who pumps the tyres on the Batmobile :P
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: sheridan on 24 August, 2017, 12:11:55 am
It's a bit like what Grant Morrison said about who pumps the tyres on the Batmobile :P

No idea what Grant said, so I'll stick with Morgan Freeman...
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Apestrife on 24 August, 2017, 06:28:36 am
It's a bit like what Grant Morrison said about who pumps the tyres on the Batmobile :P

No idea what Grant said, so I'll stick with Morgan Freeman...

He said that it doesnt matter. Since its a comic.

But then, you have a point regarding Freeman  :D
Title: Re: Dredds recent Rejuv
Post by: Funt Solo on 15 June, 2018, 06:33:09 am
A little bit of necro-threading, I realize: but I've been away for a while, so I figure I get a pass.  I'm rejuving the thread.  Hurr.

I just have to say that Judge Dredd definitely already had a rejuve job in prog 702, with that beautiful art (http://"https://stevedillonart.tumblr.com/post/145093170242/dredd-having-a-rejuve-job-after-necropolis") by Steve Dillon.

Perhaps not the same kind of rejuve job that he had later, but definitely a rejuve job.  "This is no simple rejuve job" indicates that it's a more complex rejuve job.  The fact that he's getting out of the "dermagraf" machine doesn't preclude a more complex procedure than skin-grafting: it only implies what that one machine is doing as part of a larger process.

Of course I'm making assumptions about the writer's intention: but I've always known in my head and in my heart that Judge Dredd got rejuved after Necropolis.