2000 AD Online Forum

Spoilers => Prog => Topic started by: Magnetica on 01 July, 2017, 07:38:27 pm

Title: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Magnetica on 01 July, 2017, 07:38:27 pm
Cover- Dredd

Nerve Centre - more new or returning thrills than you can shake a stick at - Greysuit , The Alienist and Hope coming soon to the Prog, and Devlin Waugh in the Meg (but we knew that already, right?).

Dredd- as I feared, a fairly by the numbers conclusion that mostly wastes the potential of the reality filter idea.

Brink - superb as ever. Will be sad to see this end in a couple of weeks. Hopefully there will be a new series soon.

Defoe - now that "whodunnit" has been revealed, this seems much more straight forward. More action, with the politics replaced with a swipe at religion instead (so still a standard Pat Mills episode then!). Not sure if it is just me, but the art seems to go up a level this week, especially the panel on the bottom of page 5 with Defoe holding  his gun.

Grey Area - sorry didn't grab me again this week, which is a shame as it is normally one of my favourites.


Hunted - now beginning to read even more like 1980's Rogue. The reveal at the end left me a bit cold - I knew it was going to be a GI, just not which one...but then again there aren't really that many to choose from.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Colin YNWA on 01 July, 2017, 08:03:05 pm

Dredd- as I feared, a fairly by the numbers conclusion that mostly wastes the potential of the reality filter idea.


Yeah I'd say this pretty much sums it up. And for this reason the Prog takes a tiny dip from last week. The rest is pretty much as you were. Brink brilliant, Defoe exists, Grey Areas dazes, the art a little too brightly and Hunted flaps but hangs on there just about.

Looking forward to Greysuit returning, not so much Alienist and it'll be interesting to see how Hope develops. I

I'm said Tharg has got someone else doing Devlin but with Mike Dowling on art ... we'll see, but changing writers... well its rarely worked has it.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: McNulty on 01 July, 2017, 09:40:01 pm
I'm a long time reader but I rarely post because by the time I read my prog most of my opinions have already been posted by others.

I found it difficult to read about Daniel losing his faith in God. In a world where the occult and science are treated as the same, it was hard to see the power of faith being treated as impotent and irrelevant.


Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 01 July, 2017, 09:59:53 pm
(http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r182/Caliban_photos/6F058B77-1DC4-4609-9F23-92F58FE9F6B0_zpsaa9377zn.jpg)
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: A.Cow on 02 July, 2017, 01:06:22 am
Cover - A bit of a cluttered mess from the (usually dependable) Cliff Robinson and Dylan Teague.  The whole thing screams of someone trying to rescue a composition that is not suited to a cover, trying hard to draw the eye to Dredd ... but the desaturated colours make it look like it's been in a sunny shop window for too long.

Nerve Centre - The only good thing about more Greysuit is that it'll all be over soon -- another one-idea story like American Reaper that has dragged out far too long.  Otherwise, more work promised from the new generation of up-and-coming droids.  Intrigued that John Smith is letting someone else write Devlin Waugh.

Judge Dredd: Parental Guidance (part two) - like many have said already, this was underwhelming filler.  I'm fairly certain we've had the "I see nice things" conceit previously in Dredd, too.

Brink: Skeleton Life (part 16) - Still getting an Emperor's New Clothes feeling about this.  Starting to suspect that Dan Abnett is making it up as he goes and that there is no long game plan here.

Defoe: Diehards (part thirteen) - Please wake me up when something eventful happens.

Grey Area: Man Flu - Nice, self-contained story.  The highlight of the prog this week.

Hunted: Furies (part five) - Bit of a faxed-in episode.  At least this has a lower words-per-speech-balloon count then other recent Rennie strips.

Overall a bit of a 'meh' prog this week, IMHO.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Jacqusie on 04 July, 2017, 12:47:34 am
Cover - A bit of a cluttered mess from the (usually dependable) Cliff Robinson and Dylan Teague.  The whole thing screams of someone trying to rescue a composition that is not suited to a cover, trying hard to draw the eye to Dredd ... but the desaturated colours make it look like it's been in a sunny shop window for too long.



It's doesn't really 'pop' with all those browns and tans - even the font is a mucky yellow which doesn't help any of it stand out or, as you say work very well.

Still the prog rumbles on and I can't say that the dozens of talking heads, lettering and endless dialogue has been great joy reading in Brink (blah blah blah) and now the dreaded Grey Area, which is indeed yep! very grey... with lots of speech bubbles...

At least Defoe looks nice, despite being a few episodes too long (It's Pat Mills ey) and I'm really looking forward to the return of Devlin. Mike Dowling is a great choice and I'm sure (or hoping) that this has all been done very carefully by Rory as not to be too jarring. Good luck to him I say.

Oh and I do like a bit of Leigh Gallagher on Dredd (bit daft story like) but the art pulled it through with some great facial expressions. I like that he gets Dredd's is an old bugger!  :thumbsup:

Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Frank on 04 July, 2017, 08:26:03 am
Leigh Gallagher ... gets that Dredd is an old bugger

Not anymore. See Carroll and Willsher's Carousel (Meg 375).

http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=prog&page=megprofiles


Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: robert_ellis on 05 July, 2017, 09:14:46 am
Wow! Calling that cover a cluttered mess is a bit strong. I really liked the image took me back to the goblins Anderson used to fight in the Brett Ewins days. I think the prog is pretty strong right now - I loved the Dredd concept.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: dweezil2 on 05 July, 2017, 09:20:58 am
Wow! Calling that cover a cluttered mess is a bit strong. I really liked the image took me back to the goblins Anderson used to fight in the Brett Ewins days. I think the prog is pretty strong right now - I loved the Dredd concept.

Yep, it all looks perfectly defined and delineated to me.
Another classy Cliff Robinson cover in my opinion!
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 05 July, 2017, 04:51:07 pm
Just out of curiosity about the photobucket issue can everyone see the cover image I posted above?
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: SuperSurfer on 05 July, 2017, 04:57:21 pm
Just out of curiosity about the photobucket issue can everyone see the cover image I posted above?
Yes, I can see it. Even after clearing cached images.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Richard on 05 July, 2017, 05:20:06 pm
One person's clutter is another person's detail. Personally, I spent more time studying that cover than any I can remember, there was so much to take in. I normally glance at the cover, think "that's nice" and turn to Judge Dredd.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Frank on 05 July, 2017, 09:54:56 pm
'WE MUST UNITE TOGETHER' ...' NOT THAT'LL MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE WITH WHAT OUR NEW RECRUIT REALLY IS'


In a touching tribute to the strip's creator, Hunted deliberately echoes the idiom of Gerry Finley-Day, littering the script with ripe dialogue and basic grammatical errors. There'll be a scrotnig/escorting homage next week.

I don't usually comment on Rennie strips (because I'm indifferent to his work and dislike his chosen internet persona), but Hunted is objectively, physically poorly written. The wrong words have been incorrectly typed into Microsoft Word. You'd think Tharg would notice the jagged green lines when he opens the document.

Hunted has previously treated us to the stylistic awkwardness of 'it only slows it, not stops it' (2037) and the howling 'that's what's left of your men being wiped out by everyone else who's now very much my men' (2034). Sons Of Booth swapped 'I' for 'it' (2032) and 'the' for 'he' (2031), so maybe the assistant editor droid's on holiday.


Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: jacob g on 06 July, 2017, 10:35:38 am
I just want... Brink is still the best thing in current Prog. I liked almost every story the same (with exception of Defoe which is looks amazing, but I don't care much about current arc) but Brink is the one I get excited the most (like Lawless in JMD).
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: norton canes on 06 July, 2017, 12:24:45 pm
Cover: I was going to start a thread in General called '2000 AD artists you hated at first then grew to love' but seeing as Cliff Robinson was going to be my contribution, I might as well mention it here.

When he started out goodness knows how long ago I thought he was nothing more than a Bolland knock-off - and one who couldn't draw especially well, at that (I'll hide this extraordinary effort effort behind a link (http://www.chrismrogers.net/communities/9/004/008/340/059/images/4610860423.jpg)). I think the first evidence that he had real talent was the Dredd episode with the medical robots that were given gruesome medical conditions - his depiction of 'throat bloat' was spectacularly grisly.

And here he is today, making wonderful covers like this one. Gorgeous linework, a fantastically dynamic pose, brilliantly inventive creatures (though if I was being picky, that blood should be coming out with more of a SPLAT). Yes it's a bit of a jumble but I'm sure that's deliberate. Nice one, Mr Robinson. Get him to work on a strip, Tharg!

Dredd: Yeah, a bit of a disappointing resolution to an intriguing set-up. The contrived way Tellerman ends up cubed at the end, just for the pay-off line, is... whatever the version of 'cherry on the cake' is for a bad thing on another bad thing.

Brink: So what was going on at the end there? Was Kurtis about to vomit? It sounded like the guy was casting a spell. Or were they names she recognised?

Defoe: Satire is sacrificed this week as dialogue makes way for an all-action shoot-out, which makes fora brief read. Top work from MacNeil though. Does anyone else think his work is vaguely reminiscent of that of the children's illustrator Stephen Cartwright?

Grey Area: A self-contained Future Shock, to all intents and purposes. Looking forward to seeing what happens when some serious shit starts to go down.

Hunted: Really not happening for me. I just don't get what weird hold the Rogue Trooper universe has on 2000 AD. Yes RT was an immensely popular strip back in the day, but there was precious little else in the strip that had lasting appeal beyond Rogue himself. Certainly the character of the Traitor General was never fleshed out up until the moment he burned up on re-entry. OK, I get that plenty of bit-part comic characters have been reinvented as properly developed protagonists. But I don't that that's happened here, and... it just seems like such an insignificant bit of 2000 AD history to resurrect. And I'm not blaming Rennie and Holden - on the contrary, I'd much rather they were given a blank slate to create new worlds and characters.

This just seems so pointless, and I don't get the sense it's inspiring them to their creative heights.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Magnetica on 06 July, 2017, 12:39:49 pm
Artists I didn't appreciate at first but now do: number 1 on that list has got to be D'Israeli.

What's going on in Brink with the retching is it is a mental trigger against a key word. Basically a hypnotic suggestion. This featured in the first series.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: jacob g on 06 July, 2017, 12:51:23 pm
I just don't get what weird hold the Rogue Trooper universe has on 2000 AD. Yes RT was an immensely popular strip back in the day, but there was precious little else in the strip that had lasting appeal beyond Rogue himself.

TBH for me Jaegir is one of my favourite titles, not as RT spinoff but proper strong story (I kind of prefer Jaegir more than RT).
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: sheridan on 06 July, 2017, 01:00:08 pm
Wow! Calling that cover a cluttered mess is a bit strong. I really liked the image took me back to the goblins Anderson used to fight in the Brett Ewins days. I think the prog is pretty strong right now - I loved the Dredd concept.

Yep, it all looks perfectly defined and delineated to me.
Another classy Cliff Robinson cover in my opinion!

Another vote in favour of the cover from me - brings across the idea of facing insurmountable odds from all directions.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 06 July, 2017, 01:02:02 pm
I just don't get what weird hold the Rogue Trooper universe has on 2000 AD. Yes RT was an immensely popular strip back in the day, but there was precious little else in the strip that had lasting appeal beyond Rogue himself.

Conversely, I thought Rogue was a pretty dull, one-note character in quite an interesting future war setting. Toxic atmosphere? Acid seas? Tanks the size of battleships? Battlefield scavengers? Alien enclaves? Biowire? There was a lot to like in the Nort/Souther/Nu Earth milieu, IMO.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Tjm86 on 06 July, 2017, 02:07:57 pm
I just don't get what weird hold the Rogue Trooper universe has on 2000 AD. Yes RT was an immensely popular strip back in the day, but there was precious little else in the strip that had lasting appeal beyond Rogue himself.

Perhaps the fact that he was graced by some of the best artists of the day as well?  Gibbons, Kennedy, Twins, Wilson .... they gave life to such a bizarre landscape, twisting the most extreme potential realities of war into a believable reality.  I think Jim has it pretty much on the money, what GFD and Gibbons created has a life of its own.  That said, whilst Jaegir really lives up to that potential, Hunted seems to retread some of the worst aspects of the original strip so I do get where you are coming from there.

Elsewhere there have been complaints about not enough short, self contained strips.  Perhaps a Tales of Nu Earth series exploring some of the bizarre majesty of the planet?
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Frank on 06 July, 2017, 07:57:13 pm
I just don't get what weird hold the Rogue Trooper universe has on 2000 AD

Perhaps the fact that he was graced by some of the best artists of the day

In his introduction to an old Titan collection*, Cam Kennedy describes Message From Millicom as '(taking) too long getting Rogue into the action at which he excels', which is the artist's gracious way of saying nobody read Rogue Trooper for the story.

I'll join the collective sigh of disappointment regarding the second part of Parental Guidance. The fuzzy concept of the Technosphere wasn't developed - I'm not sure how it could 'shut down the entire city' - so the five panels introducing it last episode could have been replaced with the last page of this week's to form a nice one-parter.

On a positive note, the Freeziwhip Mrs Thompson bought (presumably for 4 creds, from Dan Tanna block) follows Mike Carroll's advice to new writers (see the last Thrillcast) about seeding the incidental details of your strip with references to Dredd's past, creating a sense of a cohesive world without bashing the reader over the head with the continuity stick.

DID ANYONE ELSE GET THE GENE WILDER (block) REFERENCE? Please say it was just me; it'll make me feel clever.


* Rogue Trooper: Future Wars (1990)
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Steve Green on 06 July, 2017, 08:10:04 pm
I just don't get what weird hold the Rogue Trooper universe has on 2000 AD

Perhaps the fact that he was graced by some of the best artists of the day

In his introduction to an old Titan collection*, Cam Kennedy describes Message From Millicom as '(taking) too long getting Rogue into the action at which he excels', which is the artist's gracious way of saying nobody read Rogue Trooper for the story.

I'll join the collective sigh of disappointment regarding the second part of Parental Guidance. The fuzzy concept of the Technosphere wasn't developed - I'm not sure how it could 'shut down the entire city' - so the five panels introducing it last episode could have been replaced with the last page of this week's to form a nice one-parter.

On a positive note, the Freeziwhip Mrs Thompson bought (presumably for 4 creds, from Dan Tanna block) follows Mike Carroll's advice to new writers (see the last Thrillcast) about seeding the incidental details of your strip with references to Dredd's past, creating a sense of a cohesive world without bashing the reader over the head with the continuity stick.

DID ANYONE ELSE GET THE GENE WILDER (block) REFERENCE? Please say it was just me; it'll make me feel clever.


* Rogue Trooper: Future Wars (1990)

I'm guessing something to do with Wonka Memes?
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Frank on 06 July, 2017, 08:37:59 pm
DID ANYONE ELSE GET THE GENE WILDER (block) REFERENCE

I'm guessing something to do with Wonka Memes?

See No Evil (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098282/combined?mode=desktop), like the unnamed protagonist.


Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Colin YNWA on 06 July, 2017, 08:45:48 pm

Conversely, I thought Rogue was a pretty dull, one-note character in quite an interesting future war setting. Toxic atmosphere? Acid seas? Tanks the size of battleships? Battlefield scavengers? Alien enclaves? Biowire? There was a lot to like in the Nort/Souther/Nu Earth milieu, IMO.

I've said it before and I fear I'll say it again, but defo this. Rogue was a rubbish character in a great world, served by artists above his worth
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Steve Green on 06 July, 2017, 08:51:08 pm
No the See No Evil thing didn't occur to me.

It would have been fun to have had Judge Tedd on the cover shooting internet beasties to pieces.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: The Adventurer on 09 July, 2017, 12:23:37 am
'WE MUST UNITE TOGETHER' ...' NOT THAT'LL MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE WITH WHAT OUR NEW RECRUIT REALLY IS'


In a touching tribute to the strip's creator, Hunted deliberately echoes the idiom of Gerry Finley-Day, littering the script with ripe dialogue and basic grammatical errors. There'll be a scrotnig/escorting homage next week.

I don't usually comment on Rennie strips (because I'm indifferent to his work and dislike his chosen internet persona), but Hunted is objectively, physically poorly written. The wrong words have been incorrectly typed into Microsoft Word. You'd think Tharg would notice the jagged green lines when he opens the document.

Hunted has previously treated us to the stylistic awkwardness of 'it only slows it, not stops it' (2037) and the howling 'that's what's left of your men being wiped out by everyone else who's now very much my men' (2034). Sons Of Booth swapped 'I' for 'it' (2032) and 'the' for 'he' (2031), so maybe the assistant editor droid's on holiday.

Its spoken dialog. People don't necessarily speak grammatically correctly. If its intentional for tone, its not incorrect.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Frank on 09 July, 2017, 11:46:35 am

' NOT THAT'LL MAKE MUCH DIFFERENCE WITH WHAT OUR NEW RECRUIT REALLY IS' (2038) ...

'THAT'S WHAT'S LEFT OF YOUR MEN BEING WIPED OUT BY EVERYONE ELSE WHO'S NOW VERY MUCH MY MEN' (2034)


Its spoken dialog. People don't necessarily speak grammatically correctly. If its intentional for tone, its not incorrect.


Employing contractions and other deviations from formal English in dialogue reproduces the patterns of informal speech, reads more smoothly, and communicates character. That's clearly not the way the contractions and odd tense choices in the instances cited above are functioning.

I've never heard (or read) anyone say 'that'll' instead of 'that it will', and I'm not sure which phrase 'with what' has displaced (considering?). There are many common deviations from formal English that are familiar and comprehensible to readers - the examples above are neither.

The second example is such a convoluted, mind bending construction - switching between single forms (who's) and plural terms (men) that it defies logical interpretation. Nobody speaks like that, even when they're getting grammar wrong.

Bizarre phrases like these hinder communication. The only effect achieved is a narrative and cognitive stumble, sending the reader limping back to the start of the sentence to take another run at reaching the finish line with some idea of what was supposed to be said.

As far as communicating character is concerned, contractions and non-grammatical speech are commonly used to signal informality and a lack of sophistication or pretension. None of that squares with Kestra's established character traits and speech patterns*.

In most other instances, The General speaks in short, clear sentences with phrasing and vocabulary that demonstrate his confidence and sense of superiority. I can't see a dramatic reason why the scenes quoted from above cause him to lapse into semiotic spaghetti.


* Kestra adopts the mannerisms of an American actor playing an upper class English villain in an RKO serial. That first quote above is sandwiched between the Bertie Woosterish 'Oh most definitely' and 'I know just how much force to use to counteract your strengths'. The rest of the series shows the General adopting the phraseology and vocabulary of Jacob Rees-Mogg writing a letter of complaint to John Lewis:

'So yes, I know very much what I am doing ... Aah, my dear, how I wish I could see everything through your eyes ... In fact, I'm positively counting on it ... Thank you, but no ... And, again, I thank you for your concern, but must say no ... (the pain) is necessary, and, frankly, welcome ... It's time to abandon this refuge ... After all, I have a unique relationship with something they'd very much like to acquire.'
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Frank on 09 July, 2017, 01:46:06 pm

Ignore that last post. Writing it killed an hour on a rainy Sunday, but all it really says is that nobody speaks like that*.


* not even the character who is speaking.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: A.Cow on 10 July, 2017, 12:05:34 am
Ignore that last post. Writing it killed an hour on a rainy Sunday, but all it really says is that nobody speaks like that.

You've obviously never lived in Dudley.
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: The Adventurer on 10 July, 2017, 12:38:59 am
Or America
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: sheridan on 12 July, 2017, 01:20:05 pm
Ignore that last post. Writing it killed an hour on a rainy Sunday, but all it really says is that nobody speaks like that.

You've obviously never lived in Dudley.


Or worked in a call centre (not in a call centre now, but I do take a lot of calls each week, talking to people from different strata of society).  I don't have the prog to hand, so can't check which character's saying what, but there are plenty of people who mix tenses and insert incorrect words.  And also start sentences off with the word 'obviously' then go on to talk about something I couldn't possibly know about themselves...
Title: Re: Prog 2038 - Going Viral!
Post by: Frank on 12 July, 2017, 02:09:56 pm
... there are plenty of people who mix tenses and insert incorrect words.

... but General Kestra isn't one of them. See my previous, lengthy post on the topic - like John Doe's diary, the writing gets smaller as the author loses his grip on reality.