2000 AD Online Forum

General Chat => Film & TV => Topic started by: JamesC on 09 November, 2017, 02:30:49 pm

Title: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: JamesC on 09 November, 2017, 02:30:49 pm
The fist in-costume picture of Jodie Whittaker's 13th Doctor has been released. I've got to say, I think she looks fucking cool.

https://twitter.com/DoctorWho_BBCA/status/928608999859281921/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.cbr.com%2Fdoctor-who-jodie-whittaker-costume%2F

There's more on the BBC website here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-41928500

I've been saying for a while that the show needed a good shake-up and I really hope this will mark a new beginning and something of a step up in quality.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Goaty on 09 November, 2017, 03:03:10 pm
For you;

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DOMU7XFVQAEnJ5w.jpg)
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 09 November, 2017, 03:35:59 pm
Patrick Goddard tweeted a rather nice drawing of this he did for the costume designer, but I think someone at the Beeb has told him off and made him delete it!
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Tjm86 on 09 November, 2017, 03:51:00 pm
I want to like it and I hope that the scriptwriters get their act together.  Having not bothered with the most recent series, perhaps this is the shot in the arm it needed.  BSG proved that it could work with gender recasting but Starbuck wasn't quite as high profile a character as Dr Who has become.  While to wait mind.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: IndigoPrime on 09 November, 2017, 03:55:19 pm
A pity you didn't bother with the most recent series – apart from a couple of duff episodes, it felt like all-guns-blazing, to give everyone involved a properly good send off. It was easily my favourite run of nu-Who.

As for Whittaker, there's no reason she can't do well in the role. The key, as ever, will be the writing – and the script editing. The former's rarely been regularly bad from RTD onwards, but the latter has frequently been atrocious.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Tjm86 on 09 November, 2017, 04:56:03 pm
Ah, okay.  I'll give it a go then.  Sure it will pop up on box set or summit.  Ta.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: JamesC on 09 November, 2017, 05:06:48 pm
I thought last series got better as it went along. I didn't like the first couple of episodes at all but after that it seemed to improve.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Eric Plumrose on 09 November, 2017, 06:08:16 pm
For you;

Little-known fact: In High Gallifreyan, 'Graham', 'Yasmin', and 'Ryan' translate as 'Humpty', 'Jemima', and 'Big Ted'.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Goaty on 09 November, 2017, 06:28:26 pm
(http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2014712/rs_634x1024-140812163621-634.mork-mindy-robin-williams.jpg)
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Eric Plumrose on 09 November, 2017, 07:17:37 pm
I CAN'T UNSEE IT.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: DaveGYNWA on 09 November, 2017, 07:59:11 pm
Apart from the obvious 'Nanoo nanoo' similarity, my first thought when I saw this earlier was that the stripes were a nod to Tom Baker's scarf. I like it.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Eric Plumrose on 09 November, 2017, 08:05:50 pm
Hmm. On closer inspection, I see the Doctor's left ear is pierced. Let the fan fiction commence!
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Eric Plumrose on 09 November, 2017, 08:52:06 pm
Apart from the obvious 'Nanoo nanoo' similarity

I CAN'T UNSEE IT.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Colin YNWA on 09 November, 2017, 10:17:21 pm
(http://images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/2014712/rs_634x1024-140812163621-634.mork-mindy-robin-williams.jpg)

Once seen it can never be unseen.

Damnit that's lodged in my head now!

Yeah this change is getting the family Taylor to give Who another go having opted out for almost the entire Capaldi run.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: O Lucky Stevie! on 10 November, 2017, 04:40:09 am
I've got to say, I think she looks fucking cool.

Snap! Stevie was all set to swear off Who again due to his Not Being A Chibnall Fan but the story possibilities inherent in the casting of Jodie Whittaker* & her looking the wirrn's knees here have won him back.



*ie The Doctor can no longer automatically assume a position of authority in most circumstances due to his being a white male. Brian Blessed is a dead cert for guest appearance as Henry VIII.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: IndigoPrime on 10 November, 2017, 09:42:25 am
Mrs IP (Doctor Who fan) apparently unimpressed (despite being very happy with the casting): "Why have they dressed her up like a child?"
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Link Prime on 10 November, 2017, 09:46:35 am
Personally, I think its an awful outfit.
A red nose away from Bobo the clown.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Tjm86 on 10 November, 2017, 01:35:36 pm
Mrs IP (Doctor Who fan) apparently unimpressed (despite being very happy with the casting): "Why have they dressed her up like a child?"

You know what, that's what was bothering me about that pic.  Thank you!
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: JamesC on 10 November, 2017, 01:54:55 pm
Mrs IP (Doctor Who fan) apparently unimpressed (despite being very happy with the casting): "Why have they dressed her up like a child?"

That's not how I saw it at all. It's a bit art studenty I guess.
I guess the braces and rainbows are seen as childish? Surely the long coat and colottes trousers aren't?

Worth noting that this is probably only one of a rotating couple of outfits if the last few Doctors are anything to go by.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: M.I.K. on 10 November, 2017, 02:29:58 pm
Personally, I think its an awful outfit.
A red nose away from Bobo the clown.

Radio Times letters page November 24th, 1966. Look at the second letter...

(http://www.bbc.co.uk/staticarchive/2cb1be043980be80c05c0b5df3c7bd1959740a9a.jpg)

The more things change...
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Leigh S on 10 November, 2017, 05:58:18 pm
The in-universe explanation is that she went to Sarah Jane Smith's old wardrobe.... 

I saw Geoffrey from Rainbow, others have said Mork, but I think my wife might ahve got closest when she said "Magpie"
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: JLC on 10 November, 2017, 07:35:04 pm
I saw Geoffrey from Rainbow, others have said Mork, but I think my wife might ahve got closest when she said "Magpie"
None of which will mean anything to the target audience.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Daveycandlish on 10 November, 2017, 07:47:40 pm
You mean 40 something men aren't the target audience?!  :-\ :o ;)
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Leigh S on 11 November, 2017, 08:59:50 am
I saw Geoffrey from Rainbow, others have said Mork, but I think my wife might ahve got closest when she said "Magpie"
None of which will mean anything to the target audience.

I think you underestimate the target audience if you think they have no knowledge of glam rock era fashion, Robin Williams most iconic character, or retro kids shows.

Plus, do we really think Chris Chibnall, steeped as he is in loving at least one 70s TV show, would not have had similar thoughts (and indeed, possible intention to actively riff off the above)? 

I'm not even saying it's necessarily a bad thing (a bit on the nose maybe for us "not in the target audience"), so no need to defend it to me



Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: O Lucky Stevie! on 17 November, 2017, 04:29:10 am
=44906.msg973232#msg973232 date=1510306945]
the braces

Admit it chaps. You have always prefered a Doctor dressed in suspenders.



(http://thedoctorwhocompanion.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/sylvester-mccoy-3.jpg)


(https://chicagorecorders.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/dr-who-recorder.jpg)


(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_PxBUU77Vdc/UclZas2sQ6I/AAAAAAAAP-g/-RTa7XpJx44/s1600/The+Ribos+Operation+pt1+braces.jpg)


(http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/mp/93WYYiu43EOx.jpg)
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Tjm86 on 17 November, 2017, 09:37:35 am


(http://thedoctorwhocompanion.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/sylvester-mccoy-3.jpg)



Wasn't this taken shortly before the Doctor was arrested on Clapham Common?
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Link Prime on 17 November, 2017, 10:10:15 am
Krusty's Klown Kollege aside, nothing was more wince inducing than Capaldi in that chav hoodie.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: JamesC on 17 November, 2017, 02:09:16 pm
Suspenders means something else where I'm from. I'd call those braces.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: JLC on 22 November, 2017, 02:53:19 pm
You mean 40 something men aren't the target audience?!  :-\ :o ;)
No. Its a kids show. Yes older viewers will watch it & are obviously the most vocal about it on social media & forums etc. But despite what they think their voice is NOT the most important one. IS NOT.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Bolt-01 on 22 November, 2017, 03:43:11 pm
the way I perceive this is that the costuming is aiming for a nostalgic feel, whereby the colours and patterns evoke memories from the parents watching the show of doctors they watched in the past. This would then, in turn lead to increased recognition that this new actor is still 'the Doctor'.

The timing of the initial broadcast (presumably still going to be around the 6.15 slot) is, to me, aiming this at  'sitting and eating tea in front of the telly' people. Families hopefully.

If the BBC can get a younger group of kids watching then great, as it will help with the long term survival of the brand (after all- the majority of Mickey Mouse cartoons are created for a pre-school audience) and having parents watching too will only help.

I'm just hoping for decent plots- I've started watching the last season of Capaldi and I'm quite enjoying it so far.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: IndigoPrime on 22 November, 2017, 04:20:27 pm
A bit of consistency in start times would help. Doctor Who bounces all over the shop and they wonder why on-day viewing figures collapse, only allowing the show to be partially saved by catch-up/on-demand.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: BPP on 25 December, 2017, 10:21:09 pm
Off trots the best actor to have played the doctor (and boy was he great at dying over the last three epsoides) and a good old crash bang wallop start for the new one. Gold Star from me.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Taryn Tailz on 25 December, 2017, 11:47:55 pm
One line, just one line...and you know she IS the Doctor. :)

Very sad to see Capaldi go however, as I've found him to be my personal favourite of the new series Doctors.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Mardroid on 26 December, 2017, 02:58:08 am
I enjoyed that.

Is it wrong that the first thought that popped into my head when she pressed a button and the Tardis capsized was "women drivers, eh?" I'm really not sexist, and I understand it's a myth (women are generally far more careful drivers than men, on average), but my mind can be naughty sometimes in what it spits up and finds humorous.

Oh and the Doctor 'adjusting the time frame'. Is this something the Tardis has shown the capability of doing before? I would think the Doctor could have picked up the German soldier and deposited him and the British officer to the time period of the armistice with similar results. Maybe that's exactly what happened off-screen, but the general implications seemed to be that he edited the time line of that stand-off event from the Tardis console, starting with that good ol' yank of the lever.

I also noticed that the Doctor seemed to recognise the name of the officer, possibly affecting his decision to save him. I confess, I don't remember it, but I'm poor at remembering character names.

Oh and maybe the Doctor should find a wide open space to regenerate, if he is going to be blasting energy about. I'm not sure standing near advanced electronic equipment that allows you to bomb around time and space, is a good idea.  No wonder the tardis can get temperamental.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Mattofthespurs on 26 December, 2017, 07:28:45 am
I thoroughly enjoyed that.
Best Christmas episode for quiet a few years imo.
Thumbs up!
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Leigh S on 26 December, 2017, 08:24:45 am
Grouch time!

I thought was OK, but all the usual problems of slow pacing and inward looking self congratulatory monoluging rather than plot.

It failed the wife and kids test by some margin.  Elsie (9) was very excited to watch it with dad, but walked off - Joe (12) has no interest in watching it, despite being a Potter fan and currently reading Charley's War!) - Clare (wife) complained it was "for the fans" - she defends RTD era Who as very watchable, and I'll give her that  - be careful what you wish for I suppose, as Moffatt has only intermittently reached the heights I hopedd, preferring to squander interesting ideas ("Hey it's an interesting idea, I have to DO something with it???")

Firsst Doctor is sexist chump - great. One or two jokes to that effect, fine (s long as you don;t labour them as here), but lose/cut the tell dont show of Capaldi's fan serving "never cruel or cowardly" speech and beef up the reason for the Firsts appearance and dilemma....

This "I don;t want to die/go" stuff, where the back room movements in the show become meta on the screen.... It isn't inherently bad, but when it is so blatant... we get you are leaving Moffatt, and you don't want to. We get that you think Doctor Who CAN be a fairytale, and are using the old Doctor to represent the "mingmongs" who won't buy into moon/egg shenanigans and are probably really, like, sexist and stuff (in 50 years time, will we have Doctor 25 calling out Tennant and Smith for their "shagging across time" and porn loving Ladisms?)

On Chris Evans radio show the other day, the producer was leaving, so they had about 10 minutes of backroom people talking about how great she was... it was excruciating radio (well, more so than usual for Evans) and shoed no self awareness that there is an audience tuning into to this that has no interest in.

Which is a shame as the basic "ideas" were interesting, as is generally the case. 
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Colin YNWA on 26 December, 2017, 08:46:12 am
Well not watched Who for a couple of years but Jodie Whittaker has got me to try it again AND the kids are old enough AND my daughter is interested in a woman being The Doctor, so we were in and positive...

... I thought it was pretty good, but did suffer from being a little self absorbed and self referencial. It once again (one of my main beefs with the show) got a bit too distracted by now 'smart' it was and seemed to forget to be an hour of fun telly at the same time (so many things manage it).

Worse though the kids (6 and 8) found it pretty boring and didn't really buy in. They are still up for next series but over all this one wasn't for them. They did stick it out and asked what I considered all the right questions, but they just found it a bit dull.

Interestingly my daughter (8) thought the first Doctor's control room was way cooler than the current one!
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: JamesC on 26 December, 2017, 08:54:00 am
I really enjoyed that. Best of the Xmas specials by a long way I think.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Mattofthespurs on 26 December, 2017, 10:08:45 am
Interestingly, given some of the views on this forum, The Times reviewer today gave it a thumbs up but mainly because it was easy to follow and was not self referencial.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Tinmachine on 26 December, 2017, 11:33:11 am
Was a moving episode. A meditation on life and death. Found it not really to be self contained at all. Needed some knowledge of the Capaldi era, re his companions and the Dalek from Journey to the Centre of the Dalek.

Capaldi went out on a high note. Sad to see him leave, and would have loved to have seen another year from him under the new regime.

Bill Bradley was fantastic as the first Doctor. I wish the BBC would strike while the iron is relatively hot, and remake the missing stories from the first Doctor with Bill in the role. Would be better much better than the animation they're using with Shada and Power of the Daleks.

Jodie, didn't really get to make much of an impression. Ending in a cliffhanger, TARDIS is gone, and the Doctor is falling from a rather great height. Certainly will have me watching again.

Great setting for the story, loved the sets and overall design. However, like much of the Moffat era it was a bit of mess if one didn't give the story their full attention. Which there is nothing wrong with that demand, only it's Doctor Who and catering to a large audience isn't a bad thing, neither is writing 'up' but I think that is where the program may well have been losing an audience. Moffat was better as a writer than show runner.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Taryn Tailz on 26 December, 2017, 12:35:49 pm
I enjoyed that.

I also noticed that the Doctor seemed to recognise the name of the officer, possibly affecting his decision to save him. I confess, I don't remember it, but I'm poor at remembering character names.


It was Brigadier Lethbridge Stewart's Grandfather.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Mardroid on 26 December, 2017, 01:07:11 pm
I enjoyed that.

I also noticed that the Doctor seemed to recognise the name of the officer, possibly affecting his decision to save him. I confess, I don't remember it, but I'm poor at remembering character names.


It was Brigadier Lethbridge Stewart's Grandfather.

Thanks Taryn. I thought it might be something like that. I haven't watched much old Who so, while I'm aware of a character called The Brigadier I didn't know his actual name.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: von Boom on 26 December, 2017, 02:05:37 pm
I really enjoyed that overall. Bradley and Gatiss stole it I think. I wish they'd reshoot the First Doctor episodes with Bradley. That would be something.

I just thought that the Doctor's speech to himself was a little overlong and needless. High marks all around for this Christmas episode.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Professor Bear on 26 December, 2017, 02:14:41 pm
I assumed the sexism of the original Doctor wasn't meant as a reference to supposedly non-progressive fans, as since the RTD era, Who show runners have made it quite clear they don't care what the fanbase thinks.  If this was meant as a jab at them, it would make Moffat quite reactive.
Overall, I found that a bit boring.  Say what you will about Chibnall, but he's a shameless populist, and that may be what the show needs to inject a bit of life into it now, as it's been getting a bit mawkish and cloying.  As long as we don't have to sit through some sort of "I've lost me memry an 'ave terr lives as a hooman" story or something shite like that right out of the gate, I'll give the new show a gander when they finally get around to filming all the episodes.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: IndigoPrime on 26 December, 2017, 04:20:00 pm
I thought it was fine. Probably could have done with a few hours less of speech at the end (the show still desperately needs a script editor that the showrunner has to cede script control to), and that last sting of Moffat sexism to round things off (HAHAHAH WOMEN CAN'T DRIVE! Oh do fuck off).

Other than that, it was fine, for me not really a patch on the otherwise really solid last series, good to for once see a 'foe' that's not evil, and had some great work from Gatiss and – some iffy scripting aside – Bradley.

Bastard of a cliffhanger though. I do hope that one was agree with Chibnall, because otherwise that's a bugger to deal with as an incoming writer.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: flip-r mk2 on 26 December, 2017, 05:28:11 pm
and that last sting of Moffat sexism to round things off (HAHAHAH WOMEN CAN'T DRIVE! Oh do fuck off).

Bastard of a cliffhanger though. I do hope that one was agree with Chibnall, because otherwise that's a bugger to deal with as an incoming writer.

(https://i.imgur.com/bBYNvjd.jpg)

filippo
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: IndigoPrime on 26 December, 2017, 06:00:14 pm
In which case consider my optimism merrily smacked back.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Leigh S on 26 December, 2017, 06:20:54 pm
The "let's regenerate in the TARDIS mid flight" thing is very odd - Again,, I presume this is a production thing because they want to renew the console room, but from a plot and character point of view, it's  nonsense.

New Doctor Who has been very aware of the fanes no matter how much it might protest, from the RTD days onwards "Slitheen/Levine" and "Love and Monsters" as the big example  - many a chance to dig a rib in has been taken. You could argue justifiably in many cases, and it might fly over the head of casual viewer, but it's there and I can't see a better explanation for characterising the First Doctor as narrow/small minded except fo the lolz?
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: M.I.K. on 26 December, 2017, 06:35:20 pm
and that last sting of Moffat sexism to round things off (HAHAHAH WOMEN CAN'T DRIVE! Oh do fuck off).

Capaldi's Doctor completely forgot how to pilot the TARDIS after regenerating. Smith's Doctor crashed the TARDIS after regenerating.

Whittaker's Doctor presses a single button, (probably the correct button), and "MULTIPLE SYSTEMS FAILURE" flashes up on a screen, the TARDIS goes mental and cracks appear along the uppydown bit of the console, likely due to damage caused by the regeneration energy shooting out all over the place a few seconds beforehand.

Sod all wrong with her driving.

Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: IAMTHESYSTEM on 26 December, 2017, 07:03:50 pm
Will the Doctor spend her first few adventures Earthbound trying to get her Tardis back? I assume she survives the fall, meets her erstwhile Companions en route who will help/hinder her before she reunites with the Tardis and Galactic adventure ensues. The Doctor will have to slum it on Public Transport just like us poor humans and the 'no Tardis for a bit' rule might give the writers ideas for more Earth-based storylines which are usually cheaper to make.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Tiplodocus on 26 December, 2017, 07:12:54 pm
Enjoyed that but could have done without the second hour of Capaldi's farewell speech.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Colin YNWA on 26 December, 2017, 08:53:44 pm
Will the Doctor spend her first few adventures Earthbound trying to get her Tardis back? I assume she survives the fall, meets her erstwhile Companions en route who will help/hinder her before she reunites with the Tardis and Galactic adventure ensues. The Doctor will have to slum it on Public Transport just like us poor humans and the 'no Tardis for a bit' rule might give the writers ideas for more Earth-based storylines which are usually cheaper to make.

Well I know there's an episode set in Sheffield and some of it was shot in the bus station - just down from my office (well we're on the tenth floor), we were all of a titter, but saw nowt.

So you might be closer than you think and it would certainly give for an interesting premise to start off with.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Taryn Tailz on 26 December, 2017, 11:52:47 pm
There was an interview with Chris Chibnall in which he stated that he hadn't expected the BBC to agree to the plan he had for changing the series format going forward, but that they did, so I can certainly imagine the potential for perhaps as much as a whole series spent trapped on Earth, perhaps even as a single extended serial. If such an arc took place over a good number of years, this could explain why there are as many as three new companions lined up for the new series, with only one of them appearing during a given time period?(Something the old Eighth Doctor books actually did for a good half dozen novels.)
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: IndigoPrime on 27 December, 2017, 11:29:06 am
Whittaker's Doctor presses a single button, (probably the correct button), and "MULTIPLE SYSTEMS FAILURE" flashes up on a screen, the TARDIS goes mental and cracks appear along the uppydown bit of the console, likely due to damage caused by the regeneration energy shooting out all over the place a few seconds beforehand.

Sod all wrong with her driving.
Intentional or not, the connotations of such a scene are obvious, as evidenced by the rampant comments barreling around the internet. I hope she'll be brilliant, and I hope Chibnall injects something new and exciting into a show that's too often become tiresome under Moffat. (I liked the last series a lot, but with someone like Capaldi, it shouldn't have taken that long to get him into a watchable space.)
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: sheridan on 27 December, 2017, 11:40:09 am
Whittaker's Doctor presses a single button, (probably the correct button), and "MULTIPLE SYSTEMS FAILURE" flashes up on a screen, the TARDIS goes mental and cracks appear along the uppydown bit of the console, likely due to damage caused by the regeneration energy shooting out all over the place a few seconds beforehand.

Sod all wrong with her driving.
Intentional or not, the connotations of such a scene are obvious, as evidenced by the rampant comments barreling around the internet. I hope she'll be brilliant, and I hope Chibnall injects something new and exciting into a show that's too often become tiresome under Moffat. (I liked the last series a lot, but with someone like Capaldi, it shouldn't have taken that long to get him into a watchable space.)

The connotations did cross my mind too - Interesting about Smith and Capaldi, but I don't remember their very first actions being to 'crash' the TARDIS.  Remains to be seen whether the button push is justified in the next series, though I doubt it will be (if they needed to get the Doctor away from the ship, it could have been done better).
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: geronimo on 27 December, 2017, 12:16:59 pm
Is there any possibility that the new Doctor is in fact the Tardis itself, which is traditionally shown to have a female personality and she has simply transferred herself into the doctor's new regeneration?  Just a wild guess of mine!
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: M.I.K. on 27 December, 2017, 12:39:55 pm
Crashing is precisely what their first actions were subsequent to complaining about their hair/kidney colour. They even both use the word "crashing", with Capaldi then going on to ask Clara "do you happen to know how to fly this thing?". It's the cliffhanger at the end of both episodes.

Moreover, after the majority of regenerations, the Doctor has acted erratically and muddled for a while before his brain settles down a bit. If this Doctor has pressed the wrong button it'd be entirely consistent with the confused state he/she usually finds themself in. Though I don't think that's what's happened. Who puts a blowupeverything crashy button in the middle of a load of other identical buttons?

Re : TARDIS regenerating into the Doctor theory... Personally don't think so, but it did occur to me that it almost looked like the TARDIS was intentionally chucking her out, which could be read as the TARDIS not being entirely happy with the gender change, but could also be interpreted as the TARDIS attempting to save the Doctor's life because she, (The TARDIS), knew a particularly big internal explosion was about to happen and that Timelords are a bit more resilient immediately after regenerating and that the Doctor's more likely to survive a fall than a fireball.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Link Prime on 27 December, 2017, 01:29:50 pm
that last sting of Moffat sexism

Genuine question- was Moffat's stint on Dr. Who generally perceived to be sexist?
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Jimmy Baker's Assistant on 27 December, 2017, 01:42:48 pm
I didn't mind it, I have only two complaints.

1) It wasn't as good as Day of the Doctor.
2) It was another missed opportunity to bring Paul McGann back (actually several missed opportunities).

Genuine question- was Moffat's stint on Dr. Who generally perceived to be sexist?

I fear that this has become accepted wisdom, and this has led to somewhat ridiculous assertions, such as that a scene that Moffat didn't write or have any control over - a scene that shows The Doctor regenerate into a woman, by the way, after years of Moffat patiently building up to it - is conclusive evidence that Moffat is a misogynistic bastard.

My view is that he's not sexist, but that he did fail as a showrunner to write to the consistently high standard he set for himself during the RTD era.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Leigh S on 27 December, 2017, 04:44:08 pm
I found Moffatt's female characters by and large, not so much sexist, but suspect... Certainly they seem product of a male mind with a good chunk of male gaze thrown in - Bill was pretty refreshing in this regard, and I think that (and Nardole) really boosted the final season. 

I had high hopes for the finale - if you squint and think of Capaldi as the last of the old Doctors (I kniw, two Tennants or somesuch nonsense!), then him meetng his first incarnation and having a similar dilemma about entering an unknown equation would have worked wonders

Instead, we got First Doctor doing a "what's wrong with being sexy?" "stop that fairytale nonsense" Moffatt critic proxy.  Bradley is very stilted and doesnt have any of Hartnells impishness.  I hoped that this would give Hartnell a more rousing send off than he got in the original series, where he just wears a bit thin, doesnt do much in the story and falls over.  But watch the Tenth Planet, then watch this - is it a more fitting send off for Hartnell, as this is ultimately what this has become continuity wise?

It's a massive shame, as there were interesting avenues to explore for the characters, but we spent it exploring the avenues of the writers ego instead
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: dweezil2 on 27 December, 2017, 05:36:49 pm
The first line from the new doctor worryingly reminded me of this!

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv_662IqKto

 :-\
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Richard on 28 December, 2017, 08:26:08 pm
Overall I thought it was pretty good. David Bradley made an excellent story. I'd also like to see them remake the missing episodes with him, but of course they won't, it would cost too much.

I liked Mark Gatiss, and the ending for his character. The 1914 Christmas ceasefire was a brilliant idea for a Christmas episode and it worked really well. I thought his character should have been more pro-active though; all he actually did was get attacked by a dalek and need to be rescued. The dalek could have attacked one of the doctors and then Gatiss could have shot it.

The only let-down for me was Jodie Whittaker falling out of the Tardis, which is just what Matt Smith did in his first appearance. Someone should have vetoed that.

Finally,
Quote
Certainly they seem product of a male mind ...
Well, yes, Moffat is male. Should men not attempt to write female characters then?
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Leigh S on 28 December, 2017, 08:42:29 pm

Finally,
Quote
Certainly they seem product of a male mind ...
Well, yes, Moffat is male. Should men not attempt to write female characters then?

I'd be happy if jsut Moffatt attempted it to be honest!

His women are "sexy and they know it", they wear tight, short skirts and fancy themselves soemthing rotten (especially if confronted by a clone/alternate dimension version of themselves) - they are hyper competent and brook no nonsense.  They will turn you on as they gun down that alien threat, depsite your previous aversion to violence as a solution....

so yeah, product of a male's mind, rather than character's written distinctly as female, or even human at times- Bill in this regard was to be fair a massive leap forward, but Clara, Amy and River are very much from similar hyper competent and idealised cloth
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Leigh S on 28 December, 2017, 08:48:58 pm
I'm aware this makes me sound like some kind of mental Mens Rights Activist, but compare RTD companions (and other characters such as Rose's mom or Harriett Jones) and they are just that much more interesting - I find the Godlike Doctor pretty drama draining too
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: IndigoPrime on 28 December, 2017, 08:53:37 pm
Leigh: you missed (pre Bill) Moffat's leading women also being a puzzle to be solved rather than existing in their own right as characters. That gold old fast.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Leigh S on 28 December, 2017, 09:09:17 pm
Leigh: you missed (pre Bill) Moffat's leading women also being a puzzle to be solved rather than existing in their own right as characters. That gold old fast.

"Some might say that women ARE a puzzle to be solved..." First Doctor, no episode ever
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: JLC on 30 December, 2017, 04:27:28 pm
The only let-down for me was Jodie Whittaker falling out of the Tardis, which is just what Matt Smith did in his first appearance. Someone should have vetoed that.
Matt Smith fell out but hung on to the TARDIS & got back in it. This is not what happened to Jodie.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Richard on 30 December, 2017, 04:59:42 pm
It's still similar enough that it shouldn't have happened twice.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Mardroid on 30 December, 2017, 05:26:21 pm
Imagine the internet meltdown if she dies from the fall and regenerates into a male again. Ouch!

Joking aside, I'm interested to see how she does in the role.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: TordelBack on 30 December, 2017, 05:43:18 pm
I dunno lads, aside from the very enjoyable First Doctor/Bradley banter, the always watchable Capaldi and Mackie and some fine battlefield visuals, this seemed to just be the usual over-long over-emotional drawn-out tosh with added in-story montages of past characters, like a second and third curtain call that no-one asked for. 

I haven't watched much Dr Who over the past few years, so maybe there was a huge payoff here that I was missing, but from where I was sitting (watching a repeat in the wee small hours), it was exactly the kind of 'I am the Doctor and I have LIVED and DIED and HOPED and DESPAIRED and GENERALLY EMOTED and THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING YOU, AND ESPECIALLY ME FOR BEING ME' for scene after scene that leads me to bailing on any given series after the second episode.

I must make time to watch the rest of the Capaldi years, he does hold the screen brilliantly, but from this snippet it looks like very little else changed. Even the regeneration and intro of the 13th Doctor looked exactly like all the others, bar the obvious.

Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Andy B on 05 January, 2018, 05:31:33 am
'I am the Doctor and I have LIVED and DIED and HOPED and DESPAIRED and GENERALLY EMOTED and THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING YOU, AND ESPECIALLY ME FOR BEING ME' for scene after scene

Couldn’t agree more. I guess some people must like this stuff, but it’s hard to understand why.

On the plus side, I really liked the Doctor and Bill last series, and was sorry that they were leaving so soon. But after watching this, I’ve had enough of them and can move on happily.

Also, a story would have been nice. And, having just made a bunch of gorgeous Tenth Planet cyberman costumes, why wouldn’t you use them?

Thought Jodie Whittaker looked fantastic, just from a few seconds. Seemed fresh and fun. Just please no more speeches!
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Tiplodocus on 05 January, 2018, 09:01:03 am
'I am the Doctor and I have LIVED and DIED and HOPED and DESPAIRED and GENERALLY EMOTED and THANK YOU ALL FOR BEING YOU, AND ESPECIALLY ME FOR BEING ME' for scene after scene that leads me to bailing on any given series after the second episode.

Especially odd when you have a great actor like Capaldi who could do this with a couple of looks to camera and companions.

Ps: some lasses may also be watching.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: IndigoPrime on 05 January, 2018, 09:56:51 am
Quite. Capaldi was again wasted with that overblown nonsense. It would have been far more effective had this bit been much, much shorter, with him giving a single line that summed up his realisation about what it means to be The Doctor, before bursting into the regeneration sequence. (As for Bill, she was great, but her story is done. And that last series felt like all guns blazing to give those involved a good send-off. You wonder whether it would have happened had they all been signed up for another series. I kind of doubt it.)

As for Jodie Whittaker, the loss of the TARDIS will make for a decidedly different series, but I hope she gets some decent people writing for her (and – unlikely, I know – some strong script editing). Whatever happens, you can bet the internet will be full of idiot man-babies screaming: SEE? WE TOLD YOU IT WOULD BE RUBBISH WITH A GIRL! (Natch, actual girls will likely be jumping for joy that, for once, the hero of the hour is a woman.)
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Dandontdare on 05 January, 2018, 05:58:54 pm
On a rewatch I’d have to agree that last speech was overblown- “never be cruel, never be cowardly. Hate is always foolish and love is always wise” That’s a pretty damn good line but it should have been left there.

And is there much point giving a speech to yourself during a process which means you may not even remember your own name?  ;)

I’m optimistically looking forward to JW, her two word intro was charming
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Steve Green on 17 February, 2018, 08:43:24 pm
New effects house announced for the next series.

https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/bbc/double-negative-lands-doctor-who-vfx/5126684.article (https://www.broadcastnow.co.uk/bbc/double-negative-lands-doctor-who-vfx/5126684.article)

Also a revamp for in terms of cameras and lenses.

http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-12-02/the-next-series-of-doctor-who-starring-jodie-whittaker-will-get-a-whole-new-cinematic-look/ (http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2017-12-02/the-next-series-of-doctor-who-starring-jodie-whittaker-will-get-a-whole-new-cinematic-look/)

Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Colin YNWA on 17 February, 2018, 08:48:02 pm
More significently they were filming outside our office the other day... well we could see the filming from our office window in Sheffield. It was a bit off but we're high up and look onto Park Hill Flats where the Tardis was sat all day. There's a load of close up photos of the filming, but it was all the buzz in the office.
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Steve Green on 17 February, 2018, 09:28:39 pm
Did you offer to stunt double?
Title: Re: Doctor Who (13th Doctor)
Post by: Colin YNWA on 17 February, 2018, 09:46:23 pm
Alas there was no need for Sheffield's finest hand and foot double! Missed a trick there the fools.