2000 AD Online Forum

Spoilers => Prog => Topic started by: Richard on 09 December, 2017, 02:32:57 pm

Title: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Richard on 09 December, 2017, 02:32:57 pm
Actually, that's not the real cover strapline, I just wish it was. It's really "LEADING THE THRILL-CHARGE!"

It's a good prog.

Judge Dredd carries on from where we left off last week. Don't want to say too much more about it here so as not to spoil anything, but it's taken an interesting turn. It's part one of a series.

There's a very good Fall of Deadworld one-off which introduces a new character, of whom I am looking forward to seeing more in later stories. There's also an advert for the first volume of Dark Judges hardback graphic novels, starting with Fall of Deadworld.

ABC Warriors gets off to an excellent start. Even if you didn't like the last series, give this one a go. Clint's art is beautiful, and Pat's writing is top stuff, and he makes his point well without being too preachy about it. I'm glad this is back.

There is a very funny Tharg-type one-off story about Starlord, by a new writer and some great art by Henry Flint. This made me laugh. (I wonder if Rebellion's Treasury of British Comics imprint will reprint anything from Starlord in its 40th anniversary year? Mind Wars was good.)

I've got to make this comic last for three weeks, so in saving the other four stories for later (I hope that's not cheating for thread-bagging purposes). But there's also Droid Life, a feature where creator droids choose their favourite bit of the prog over the last 40 years, and adverts for new Strontium Dog and Chopper stories in 2018.

The rest of the prog is Savage, Brass Sun, Bad Company and an Ace Trucking Co one-off.

A very good way to round off the year.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: McNulty on 09 December, 2017, 07:26:35 pm
My thoughts on the prog:

Dredd: More of a grim survivalist story than an action adventure this week. I found the constant jumping from the past to the present quite confusing, especially when speech boxes from one time were in panels from another. Hopefully future instalments of this story will be easier to follow.

Brass Sun and Savage both have the problems that they are starting up their stories after being away for a while, but from their standpoints no time has passed. If they were in collected graphic novels, this of course wouldn't be a problem, however because stories nowadays seem to end not with conclusions but with cliffhangers, this means that readers who are new to 2000ad are quite rightly lost in trying to get to grips with these stories. Regular readers also will feel the need to reacquaint themselves with the stories by going back and read them up to the point where they ended last.

Bad Company: A story that should have left alone in my opinion. The story had ended in a satisfactory manner and didn't need this convoluted way to bring back some favourite characters from the dead.

Deadworld: Has a good story that introduces a new character. If her story is expanded upon I shall be happy, but it could be a one off standalone story.

Ace Trucking: The only Christmas themed story in the whole prog. I like the story overall, but not the art. They still haven't found a worthy successor for the great Belardinelli. Okay, it's an impossible task I know. Gibson probably came closest in with his tenure.

ABC Warriors: This has the potential to become a major storyline within ABC Warriors. I can't take everything at face value, so we will have to see how this plays out. There were those who didn't believe that Blackblood would leave the Warriors, but he did and so did Mek-Quake. Caine and Dreadlock might actually destroy each other.

I left the Starlord story last because I'm going on a rant.
I hated this story.
I hate this story with a passion.
I am one of the old guard. I was there at the start of 2000ad and I was there at the start of Starlord. I read both and I enjoyed both. And as such I despise the hatchetjob that Kenneth Neimand has done on Starlord and to a lesser extent on Tharg himself. Neimand would have been much better advised to do a tribute to a character from the founding days of British sci-fi comics instead of what twisted take he came up with. I am not a fan of retconns but this was on a whole different level. What makes it more sad is that Henry Flints artwork in this is still his usual excellence. That in itself made it more difficult to take. And in a Christmas special as well. I honestly haven't been this disgusted reading 2000AD since Judge Dredd killed Dr Who.
For Shame.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Richard on 09 December, 2017, 07:29:21 pm
Wow, you took that one to heart! They were only joking!
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Colin YNWA on 09 December, 2017, 07:36:35 pm
I've only flicked through the Prog as I'm sawing it for the holidays BUT how excited am I about Baille and McCarthey teaming up for 'Back to Oz' which in my head will be Chopper meets Mad Max. Come on live up to my expectations you beauty!
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Pete Wells on 09 December, 2017, 09:27:15 pm
I left the Starlord story last because I'm going on a rant.
I hated this story.
I hate this story with a passion.
I am one of the old guard. I was there at the start of 2000ad and I was there at the start of Starlord. I read both and I enjoyed both. And as such I despise the hatchetjob that Kenneth Neimand has done on Starlord and to a lesser extent on Tharg himself. Neimand would have been much better advised to do a tribute to a character from the founding days of British sci-fi comics instead of what twisted take he came up with. I am not a fan of retconns but this was on a whole different level.

I may be wrong, but with the nostalgic vibe I kinda assumed that Kenneth Neimand is Keith Richardson. I really enjoyed the Starlord story, the radicalisation angle made me chuckle.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Robo-K33F on 09 December, 2017, 10:35:43 pm
I left the Starlord story last because I'm going on a rant.
I hated this story.
I hate this story with a passion.
I am one of the old guard. I was there at the start of 2000ad and I was there at the start of Starlord. I read both and I enjoyed both. And as such I despise the hatchetjob that Kenneth Neimand has done on Starlord and to a lesser extent on Tharg himself. Neimand would have been much better advised to do a tribute to a character from the founding days of British sci-fi comics instead of what twisted take he came up with. I am not a fan of retconns but this was on a whole different level.

I may be wrong, but with the nostalgic vibe I kinda assumed that Kenneth Neimand is Keith Richardson. I really enjoyed the Starlord story, the radicalisation angle made me chuckle.

Whoa there tiger - I'm innocent. Wish I did write it though as imo it was cracking!

Matt did edit out a Tornado moment in which the skin head Weetabix crew batter Big E to death with socks stuffed with snooker balls. The Green Cross code Man and Wolfie Smith just watched....and laughed.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 09 December, 2017, 11:03:10 pm
Ken Niemand.
“I know nobody” of that name.
At least in Dutch anyway.
 ;)
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 09 December, 2017, 11:09:52 pm
(https://i.imgur.com/jzl91VX.jpg)
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: SuperSurfer on 10 December, 2017, 12:28:34 am
Looks like it's the Christmas issue to me, not the new year one.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: The Monarch on 10 December, 2017, 09:16:26 am
is it just me or bill savage without his "shootah" feels wrong
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: I, Cosh on 10 December, 2017, 09:20:07 am
Ken Niemand.
“I know nobody” of that name.
At least in Dutch anyway.
 ;)
And German. In fact, another way of putting it could be: Kenny Who?
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: MacabreMagpie on 10 December, 2017, 10:16:49 am
Great cover, that. Despite what some folk would have you believe.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Richard on 10 December, 2017, 10:53:03 am
Quote
Looks like it's the Christmas issue to me, not the new year one.

You're right, I'd forgotten the line at the top. I always think of them as new year progs because of the way they used to be numbered.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Jacqusie on 10 December, 2017, 01:11:20 pm
Looks like it's the Christmas issue to me, not the new year one.


If they hadn't snuck in the word 'Xmas' on the top banner, you wouldn't know it's the Christmas Prog. The cover is more in keeping with the style of the jumping on progs.

Saying that it does have a retro stylee going on and we could be back in 1982 annual territory. Kano looks like he's got a nice vegetable patch going on with his head and Savage has a new 1930's Bugsy Malone shootah.

...They could have dressed Tharg as Santa at least eh? Bah Humbug...

 ;)
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Art on 10 December, 2017, 04:31:49 pm
Pretty fine example of THARG UNLEASHES THE THRILLS FROM HIS MIGHTY SACK if you ask me. Mighty sack implied.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: TordelBack on 10 December, 2017, 05:00:55 pm
Cover is ace. Proper old school thrillage.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Pete Wells on 10 December, 2017, 07:46:05 pm
My review is over on the 2000 AD and beyond site here: https://2000adandbeyondsite.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/2000ad-prog-2061-review-2/ (https://2000adandbeyondsite.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/2000ad-prog-2061-review-2/)

For my own amusement, I've compared each thrill to a Christmas song to give an indication of my thoughts and enjoyment of each!
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Steve Green on 10 December, 2017, 07:52:40 pm
*cough* Dom Reardon not Len. (I think)
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Pete Wells on 10 December, 2017, 07:56:14 pm
*Blush* You’re right Steve. If only there was some kind of credit box and two different panels that made it more explicit!  :-[
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: SuperSurfer on 10 December, 2017, 10:23:14 pm
I'm not buying it anyway (for now). Going to try to get to the FP signing on Saturday.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Prodigal2 on 11 December, 2017, 10:00:34 am
My review is over on the 2000 AD and beyond site here: https://2000adandbeyondsite.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/2000ad-prog-2061-review-2/ (https://2000adandbeyondsite.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/2000ad-prog-2061-review-2/)

For my own amusement, I've compared each thrill to a Christmas song to give an indication of my thoughts and enjoyment of each!


I haven't received it yet but I would echo Pete's love of more Chrimbo material. It appeals to my inner big child.





















































Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: MacabreMagpie on 11 December, 2017, 10:35:23 am
My review is over on the 2000 AD and beyond site here: https://2000adandbeyondsite.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/2000ad-prog-2061-review-2/ (https://2000adandbeyondsite.wordpress.com/2017/12/10/2000ad-prog-2061-review-2/)

For my own amusement, I've compared each thrill to a Christmas song to give an indication of my thoughts and enjoyment of each!

Enjoyed! XD
Thanks for that.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Something Fishy on 11 December, 2017, 05:15:12 pm
Has everybody received their copy?  mine was sent Thursday but no sign of it.  wondering if that's just the Xmas post.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Something Fishy on 11 December, 2017, 05:40:50 pm
ah just found store orders went second class.  that's why then.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Tjm86 on 11 December, 2017, 07:48:49 pm
Had mine with the print on Saturday, along with the usual subscription copy.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Something Fishy on 11 December, 2017, 08:22:44 pm
I wonder if it went first class because you are a sub?
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: The Enigmatic Dr X on 12 December, 2017, 07:41:39 am
Deadworld.

Loved it. Maybe reading too much into a Gran Turismo analog, but even I can see the playfulness of Eastwood's name.

I'm kinda sad that this alt-Dredd won't survive. I'd love it if there was some kind of D-Jump escape by some characters. As it is, my enjoyment of this strip is slightly (but not much!) tinged with the knowledge thatm y'know, Deadworld falls. Guess the clue is in the title. And in Judge Death Lives.

Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Eamonn Clarke on 12 December, 2017, 12:46:59 pm
Got my order plus print 14/200 yesterday Monday 11th
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: TordelBack on 12 December, 2017, 01:07:31 pm
I wonder if it went first class because you are a sub?

Typical dom thinking. 
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Richard on 12 December, 2017, 01:22:25 pm
For me the knowledge that everyone in Deadworld is doomed is something that I like about this story. I don't want them to have a miraculous escape. The certain knowledge that there's no hope enhances the story for me. And we still don't know exactly how they'll go out.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Proudhuff on 12 December, 2017, 01:55:07 pm
Cover Wot was Angela Merkel from Brass Sun not macho enough for the charge?
Droidlife: we're all been there..
Damage Report: DM to be collected Yeah! then bah!
Dredd: The Car-Roll + Happy Shrapnel Droids on Dredd = Happy P'Huff
Adverts: Faceache or Deadworld... not sure which as the more worth to me...Return to Oz...Hmmmm
Brass Sun:  That's some great storytelling and art right there...
and best line of the Prog: Two Thousand years later.  :lol: :lol:
mega letters page and not a Buttman in sight.... Where's yer Wull Shakespeare noo?  lets see how The Beast looks!
Savage: Is she/ Isn't she? Uncle Pat keeps us guessing, glad to see the correct sockets on the train btw...  :thumbsup:
40 years...ah mammaries!!

Bad Company... Please MO retire them for good, let them RIP.

Dead World: doesn't exist in mine lalalalalalala

Ace Trucking a final Ten ten would be nice.

ABC: I love a cheerie xmas message  :D
Starlord: Finally the truth is out there about TMO!

Top festive proggage with only a couple of not my things in there Thank you MO!


 



 

Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Something Fishy on 12 December, 2017, 04:57:49 pm
I wonder if it went first class because you are a sub?

Typical dom thinking.

What is Dom thinking?

Anyway, it hasn’t arrived yet so I’m guessing it’s lost in the post.  Second class stuff seems to fail to get here more often than it arrives these days.  Terrible service.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Something Fishy on 12 December, 2017, 04:58:33 pm
Terrible from the post I mean.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Leigh S on 12 December, 2017, 05:34:06 pm
No post, let alone Prog, in the snowy wastes of the Birmingham Gap... any other muties in the vicinity get theirs?
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Colin Zeal on 12 December, 2017, 08:03:04 pm
Speaking as a postman who has a prog subscriber on my route, I can confirm that I delivered the latest issue on Saturday so they must have gone out.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Richard on 12 December, 2017, 08:32:20 pm
So it's all your fault!!
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Prodigal2 on 13 December, 2017, 09:51:37 am
None in my part of Norn Iron either.

Bah humbug.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Proudhuff on 13 December, 2017, 10:42:48 am
I obvs got mine in the CalHab wastes, but no Meagzine, it that due this Saturday?
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Magnetica on 13 December, 2017, 10:55:44 am
A good Prog but as others have said, not very Christmassy.

Dredd now seems to be in the middle of an epic (of the new style of interlinked stories).

Uncle Pat shows he can still write good stuff with ABC Warriors and especially Savage.

I think it is time to stop Bad Company and ACE Trucking. Wrt to Bad Company, unless I have missed it, we still haven’t had an explanation as to how come everyone is still alive.

Brass Sun and Deadworld are of the expected standard.

The Starlord story was ok. For me you can either take it as a joke or a comment on fake news or the way stories are portrayed based on your point of view.

I really liked the 40 year reflections Some of those chosen are also in my list of favourite moments. Others I had forgotten and this served to bring back great memories.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Verence on 13 December, 2017, 06:14:07 pm
Was the female General in Brass Sun meant to look like German Chancellor Angela Merkel??


I can't be the only person who noticed the D.R. and Quinch cameo in the ACE Trucking story
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: DrRocka on 13 December, 2017, 07:18:16 pm
I spotted DR & Quinch too - they’re just behind Nemesis, emerging from the shadows!

Not really moved by the Christmas prog this year - like someone else has asked, how are Bad Co still alive? And more importantly, WHY? If you’re gonna bring back a much loved strip, at least make it a damn good story that enhances the original, rather than dilutes it.

Oh good, the lyrics are back in Savage. Just when I was beginning to enjoy it too.

Everything else just seemed.... ok. Maybe I was just hoping for some Stronty.

Oh, and CHOPPER DIED AT THE END OF SUPERSURF 10!!!






....just sayin’ 😉
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Something Fishy on 13 December, 2017, 07:19:29 pm
Speaking as a postman who has a prog subscriber on my route, I can confirm that I delivered the latest issue on Saturday so they must have gone out.

Ok cheers.  The guys have responded to me which is great.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Verence on 13 December, 2017, 11:09:45 pm
I spotted DR & Quinch too - they’re just behind Nemesis, emerging from the shadows!


I didn't notice Nemesis, probably cos I was so surprised at seeing DR and Quinch  :lol:
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Bolt-01 on 14 December, 2017, 09:04:01 am
Prog arrived last night so I've just caught up with the Thread...

As year end progs go this was one of my faves in recent years.

I've got to disagree with folks not liking the ACE Trucking strip- this was the first one that IMO hit the spot. Eddie Robsons script was almost spot on for me (I always see Ace as similar to Sam Slade, he thinks he's got a plan but it always goes pears-up and he has to wing it) but Nigel's art was just sublime. Yeah, he's not Massimo, but no-one is. Nigel shouldn't even try to mimic Massimo's style, just be himself.

Thought the Dredd was a solid hit- but then I expect nothing less from the creative team.

I'm sure there's more to say, but right now that's all I wanted to rant about...
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Prodigal2 on 14 December, 2017, 10:07:22 am
I went out to the shops and bought my Chrimbo special. Not bad but not my favourite among Chrimbo issues of the past few years.

I'm still getting over the brilliant Dredd take on the snowman of last year(?). Boy that sat with me for some time for reasons I am still not quite sure of.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) on 14 December, 2017, 05:48:51 pm
On the whole, loved that. Top Thrill was Starlord, which was of the kind 2000AD so rarely does these days- funny, self-contained and packed with design work and jokes. Least favourite thing was Brass Sun, which I will never get to grips with in a million progs.
Everything else sat between the two, with ABC Warriors and Savage at the top end. Sad to see another run of Bad Company is upon us, which looks as irritating and skippable as the last one. There's nothing about it that appeals, and it only nudges ahead of Brass Sun for me because of the slight twinge of nostalgia for the original two runs.
But that's 2000AD for me- some excellent, some not, some that might grow over their series.
SBT
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: DrJomster on 15 December, 2017, 11:14:28 pm
Overall, that was a very strong end of year Prog. Well done those droids!

I don’t really want to single anyone out as it was a great Christmas feast of thrill power, which I gobbled done in one sitting!

Very excited by some of the future thrills btw.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Taryn Tailz on 17 December, 2017, 02:57:36 pm
There's some questionable opinions voiced in the end of years letters page. I struggle to comprehend how anyone could praise the latest Slaine strip so highly (even if I didn't mind it too much), whilst panning Fall of Deadworld and Indigo Prime. Still, that's probably one of the strengths of the Prog. Every strip has its fans. For me, the latest Indigo Prime strip was the finest strip of the whole of 2017.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: sheridan on 18 December, 2017, 02:45:15 am
Ken Niemand.
“I know nobody” of that name.
At least in Dutch anyway.
 ;)


I caught on on Niemand = nobody (in German) but good call on the 'Ken' (German would be Keine Niemand).
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: sheridan on 18 December, 2017, 02:46:35 am
Ken Niemand.
“I know nobody” of that name.
At least in Dutch anyway.
 ;)


I caught on on Niemand = nobody (in German) but good call on the 'Ken' (German would be Keine Niemand).

Whatever happened to the edit button?

It should be "Ich kenne niemanden".
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: norton canes on 18 December, 2017, 10:36:35 am
Finally got round to reading all the stories. The pleasure of having so many to get through is offset by the knowledge that it'll be three weeks before I see any more!

Cover: Nice action scene. Anyone think the back cover should have been on the front though?

Dredd: Promising setup, even though it involves a further band of outlaws in the Sov wastelands. Always good to have Colin MacNeil on art duties.

Brass Sun: As with Scarlet Traces, an intriguing concept that hasn't translated into a good strip. Must be something about Ian Edginton's writing style that just doesn't click for me; and INJ Culbard's art here is not in the same league as his work on Blink.

Savage: The prog's second-best Mills strip. Too many Mills tropes, some of it reads too much like a continuation of Greysuit. Bring back the geezah with the shootah!

Bad Company: I agree with those saying BC has run its course. I'd much rather be reading book II of Counterfeit Girl.

Deadworld: This strip can do no wrong. Incredible stuff.

Ace Trucking: I don't think there could be a worse candidate for a strip to bring back without the involvement of the original creators. John Howard and Alan Grant's writing style and dialogue were so distinctive, and of course Belardinelli's art was incomparable. The characters in this strip neither look like nor sound like (where did all that "t'touch" type dialogue come from?) the characters we love. All wrong!

ABC Warriors: Pat Mills back on form! A proper, decent plot concept that actually seems to be moving events along| Very satisfying. Unfortunately I'm one of those people who's not keen on Clint Langley's use of photographic material. The full-page Nemesis panel was awesome though.

Starlord: OK. Two things. Firstly: TOP THRILL. This is what 2000 AD needs more of - real irreverent humour,   fourth-wall breaking, pushing the boundaries. Not confined by the need to be a 'proper' comic strip. Don't leave this sort of thing to the specials!

Secondly... I have to say, that final panel was really... well, really disturbing, in a way that I used to find the early Future Shocks creepy and unsettling when I was a kid. Perhaps this was because it was a callback to something from a similar era, I don't know. Anyway top marks to the enigmatic Herr Niemand.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Magnetica on 18 December, 2017, 03:57:56 pm
Brass Sun: As with Scarlet Traces, an intriguing concept that hasn't translated into a good strip. Must be something about Ian Edginton's writing style that just doesn't click for me;

At the risk of going over old ground, I would suggest, that any perceived issues with those strips’ narratives is more the result of lengthy gaps between series than poor writing.

It’s a general issue in 2000AD these days. As far as Ian Edington series are concerned I would suggest the situation is not helped by using the same small set of artists who can understandably only produce so much work.

Hence I guess Tiernan Trevallion now doing the next series of Helium rather than D’Israeli.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Robin Low on 18 December, 2017, 06:55:01 pm
Well, I still haven't given up on the Prog yet. Happy enough with Dredd, but it was a shame it wasn't a Christmas one-off. Deadworld stood out, as it often does.

Right.

I'm obliged by honesty if nothing else to say that Savage is the Mill's series I've enjoyed the most since, well, probably, The Black Hole Mission. So, keep that in mind.

I was intrigued by Mill's comment about the Edelweiss Pirates, or at least intrigued enough to use the lazy-man's research tool that is Wikipedia. From this article, it's somewhat unclear exactly what the Pirates did beyond beat up Hitler Youth. The section that says they assisted army deserters and others hiding from the Third Reich, and that their contribution to resistance has been overlooked for various reasons, has no citations.

One thing in particular stands out. In the comic, it's said that "the pirates fought their 'liberators', to save German girls from Allied soldiers". In the Wiki article it says, "There were also attacks against German women who were known to have been friends or been intimate with British soldiers". This latter point is referenced:

Henke, Klaus-Dietmar (1995). Die amerikanische Besetzung Deutschlands (in German). Munich: Oldenbourg. pp. 198–200

Now, I don't speak German (Google informs me the title translates to The American occupation of Germany), so even if I had access to the book to know if it's been misrepresented. However, this doesn't exactly fit with the words Mill's put into the character's mouth (see how I was careful there?). In reality, I can see both scenarios being credible and simultaneous.

Anyway, the Wiki article on the Pirates also led to an interesting group called The White Rose:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose

I'm guessing Uncle Pat wouldn't be so interested in this group, as they had an academic background and religious sentiments, and weren't rebellious working class kids.

Another link of interest:

http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2005/03/ber3-m05.html

This discusses two films, Sophie Scholl—The Final Days and Edelweiss Pirates, the latter's subject obvious, the former concerning a member of White Rose.

If anyone wants to point me to a good reference or two on the deliberate mass starvation of the German civilian population, I'd be interested.

Happy Christmas,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Richard on 18 December, 2017, 07:31:04 pm
Indeed; I had been under the impression that the Allies did their utmost to help prevent the Germans from starving after the war. This is the first I've heard of this matter, but if it's true then I expect there will be credible sources to look for.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 18 December, 2017, 07:36:50 pm
If anyone wants to point me to a good reference or two on the deliberate mass starvation of the German civilian population, I'd be interested.

No time to do any proper research but a quick google on the phrase "deliberate mass starvation of the German civilian population" turns up a couple of hits on the first page but going to the home page of those sites looks a bit tinfoil hatty, TBH. I'm not going to give a huge amount of credence to any site also proclaiming "VACCINATION IS CHILD ABUSE!"
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Modern Panther on 18 December, 2017, 08:01:54 pm
Note that Wolf's important lesson about how "liberators" aren't necessarily the good guys and worthy of respect is immediately contradicted by his own insistence that Bill and Volodina should be spared:

"Should we shoot them both?"
"How can we?  She saved us."



Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Robin Low on 18 December, 2017, 08:13:37 pm
No time to do any proper research but a quick google on the phrase "deliberate mass starvation of the German civilian population" turns up a couple of hits on the first page but going to the home page of those sites looks a bit tinfoil hatty, TBH. I'm not going to give a huge amount of credence to any site also proclaiming "VACCINATION IS CHILD ABUSE!"

You know I actually considered bunging that into Google, but I honestly thought I'd need something more specific, an actual name or something. Naïve of me, really.

However, I was worried that someone would immediately post saying, "Yeah, here you go Robin. How come you didn't know about this already? Pretty common knowledge round our way."

For the time being, I will continue herding it with the sheeple.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Robin Low on 18 December, 2017, 08:18:57 pm
However, I was worried that someone would immediately post saying, "Yeah, here you go Robin. How come you didn't know about this already? Pretty common knowledge round our way."

Well, I so rarely get PMs I neglected to see someone had kindly sent me this link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Food_in_occupied_Germany

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Richard on 18 December, 2017, 10:40:06 pm
Looks like Pat wasn't just making it up.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Robin Low on 19 December, 2017, 07:13:12 am
Looks like Pat wasn't just making it up.

I don't think he does make things up, but I sometimes wonder about his choice of sources. I also think his world view affects his presentation of facts and what he accepts a fact in the first place.

In this particular case, I think the situation was considerably more complex than presented in Savage - but the characters could quite realistically have that simplistic attitude born of historical and nationalist resentment. And it is only a comic strip, after all.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Richard on 19 December, 2017, 10:23:24 am
Maybe the point all along was to inspire us to look into it further.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Fungus on 19 December, 2017, 11:06:29 am
Looks like Pat wasn't just making it up.
I don't think he does make things up

 :eh:
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Proudhuff on 19 December, 2017, 11:40:19 am
- but the characters could quite realistically have that simplistic attitude born of historical and nationalist resentment.

Good job they never got a plebiscite on it then  :-X
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Robin Low on 19 December, 2017, 04:21:11 pm
Looks like Pat wasn't just making it up.
I don't think he does make things up

 :eh:

Well, robots and stories and stuff, yeah, obviously, he makes that up. But his historical information is undoubtedly sourced from somewhere.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Robin Low on 19 December, 2017, 04:49:38 pm
Maybe the point all along was to inspire us to look into it further.

In this case it certainly worked, but I'm left thinking that the circumstances surrounding both the Pirates and post-war callousness were far more complex than suggested in Savage.

We've said it here before, but it's unwise to ascribe a character's opinions to its author. The problem with Uncle Pat is his interviews do tend to suggest that we are getting it direct from the horse's mouth. When I was in my teens and twenties, I'd cheerfully lap this stuff up. Now, at the tender age of 47, I still see the meanness and spitefulness of human beings, but I also realise that the underlying reasons for them being so are rarely simple. I'm appalled by the apparent words of Roosevelt revealed by that Wiki article... but I can also see how several years of war and the deaths of a few hundred thousand Americans would create that lack of empathy. I don't like it, not one bit, but I understand it.

I don't want to cut this discussion off with my post being the final word, but I imagine this thread has been derailed enough.

As I said before, Savage is the Mill's story I've enjoyed more than any other in a long, long time, so I'm always happy to see it back.

Just looked through this thread again and I couldn't see anyone mention the forthcoming Strontium Dog. Fan-wank, or what! Bring it on!

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Southstreeter on 19 December, 2017, 05:12:25 pm
So on the subject of upcoming Stront, do we have any idea as to how old Wulf Jr might be? I’ve always been a bit unsure of the SD timeline. How old was Johnny when he met Wulf? How old is he now? For how long was he dead? I don’t think it’s ever been Dredd-style real time, and probably left deliberately vague, but I dont’ really feel enough strip time has elapsed. On the other time, I’m getting pretty old myself...
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Steve Green on 19 December, 2017, 05:30:04 pm
I did try to break down the timeline for Stront when I was bored and trying to create a timeline for the fan film facebook page.

(See below - may be errors though)

Johnny is 20 when he travels back to meet Wulf, I imagined Wulf is 5-10 years older

So, say 27 when he returns to 2170.

Which makes him around 35-37 for the bulk of the golden age run.

There's a gap between Wulf meeting Johnny and Johnny having another partner (sniffer Martinez) - also Wulf mentions the Triton Wars (before it was revealed he was a viking)

So there's a gap 2170-2176 ish where Wulf could have easily had a kid.

It's now 2199 or thereabouts, so Wulf's kid could plausibly be in his 20s.




793 AD

Johnny Alpha travels to the Scandinavian Pensinsula back from the 22nd Century to apprehend Max Bubba and his gang. He meets Wulf Sternhammer for the first time.

After defeating Bubba, they return to 2170

1945
Johnny Alpha, Wulf Sternhammer and the Gronk are assigned by the Committee for Ultimate Retribution, C.U.R. to apprehend Adolf Hitler in his bunker and return to the 22nd Century to face justice.

1987
Kaiakok-l Freedom Fighters kidnap US President Ronald Reagan and transport him to 2187

2108
Johnny and Wulf arrive in Mega-City One running into Judge Dredd (Top Dogs)

2114
Johnny Alpha arrives in Hondo-cit to terminate Sabbat

2120
Nelson Bunker Kreelman Born

2130
Diana Kreelman Born

2139
Nelson Bunker Kreelman (AKA Bunky) travels to Mega-City One

2150
The Great War

2150
in later stage of her pregnancy Diana Kreelman is exposed to radiation while travelling from the Scilly Isles to Salisbury

Portrait of a Mutant

2150
Nelson Bunker Kreelman enacts strict anti-mutant laws

2150
John Kreelman born to Diana and Nelson Bunker Kreelman, John is a mutant

2162
John Kreelman runs away to join the Mutant Army led by General Armz, adopts the name Johnny Alpha

2167
First Mutant Uprising

2167
Alpha is seconded to William Blood Moon – 'Bloody Billy'

2170
Blood Moon story

2170
The Mork Whisperer

2170
Max Bubba and his gang escape into 1st century Scandinavia

2173
Alpha's partner Sniffer Martinez is killed (A cure for Kansyr flashback)

2174
The Triton Wars

2176
Alpha captures Sadan the Demon Maker

2176
The Complaint

2176
Top Dog - Johnny and Wulf track a bounty back to MC-1 in the past

2179
Don Dork is trapped into the Hell dimension

2180
First Starlord Story Max Quirxx Story (Starlord)

2180
Papa Por-ka
No Cure For Kansyr
Planet of the Dead
Two-faced Terror
Demon Maker
The Ultimate Weapn

2180
The Galaxy Killers

2181
Journey into Hell
Death's Head
The Schickelgruber Grab
Muties Luck
The Doc Quince Case
Bad Boys Bust
The Gronk Affair
A Sorry Case
Headly Foot Job
The Kid Knee Caper

2182
Roadhouse

2183
The Moses Incident

2184
The Killing

2184
Outlaw!

2184
Traitor to his kind
Shaggy Dog Story
The Glum Affair

2184
Big Bust of '49

2185
The Slavers of Drule

2185
Johnny and Wulf retire to Moondog Mountain, Smiley's World

2185
Wulf is killed by the Max Bubba Gang

2187
'Bitch' Freedom Fighters abduct Ronald Reagan from 1987

2187
A Royal Affair

2187
The Rammy

2187
Stone Killers

2187
The No-Go Job

2187
The Final Solution. Johnny Alpha is killed by Lyran Sorcery and the Doghouse is destroyed by a bomb

2188
Island of the Damned
Durham Red hunts down the Goth Lord

2193
New Doghouse is built

2194
Precious Matson enlists Middenface McNulty in the search for
Johnny Alpha's body

2195
Dave Heckle becomes Agency Controller of the new Doghouse

2196
Feral is executed

2196
Johnny Alpha is revived by the Stone Wizards at the request of
Middenface McNulty and Precious Matson

2197
Second Mutant Uprising (Dogs of War)

2199
The Stix Fix - Alpha and his crew are recruited from prison.

2199
Repo Men

2199 By Private Contract - Alpha and McNulty travel to MC-1 (circa 2139) to take Dredd to 2220 to be tried by clones of Chief Judge Cal.

37th Century
Johnny, Wulf, and the gronk emergency time jump to the 37th century along with their prisoner Adolf Hitler.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Richard on 19 December, 2017, 05:37:10 pm
Excellent timeline, thank you.

2220 is definitely the date given in By Private Contract, and I'd assumed that was the date in Jonny's own timeline, rather than him going 21 years into his future to deliver his prisoner. It I wondered if it was a mistake and was meant to read "2200", given that Middenface McNulty would have to be in his 80s otherwise.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Robin Low on 19 December, 2017, 05:39:37 pm
So on the subject of upcoming Stront, do we have any idea as to how old Wulf Jr might be? I’ve always been a bit unsure of the SD timeline. How old was Johnny when he met Wulf? How old is he now? For how long was he dead? I don’t think it’s ever been Dredd-style real time, and probably left deliberately vague, but I dont’ really feel enough strip time has elapsed. On the other time, I’m getting pretty old myself...

Okay.

Alpha is born in 2150.

He meets Wulf in 2170 (well, A.D. 793)

Wulf is killed in 2185 ("the man who for fifteen long, hard-fought years had been his only normal friend")

Which puts Alpha's death in 2186, a year ahead of where it's usually reckoned due to a 2000AD starscan-type-thingy.

Based on years passed mentioned in The Life and Death of Johnny Alpha, Alpha is resurrected about 9 years later, so at least 2195.

Getting to the current date would need me digging out some back-Progs, sorry.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Steve Green on 19 December, 2017, 05:41:59 pm
Yeah there was a bit of fudging - they mention something called the flux or something?

I was guessing it was some interweb thing but maybe had bounties from the future as well as current ones.

There's also a couple of one at the big bang and another in the far future that I didn't bother including.

But Alpha's currently 50 I guess, didn't have any young middenface to ref, but imagine middenface is at least 10 years older.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Robin Low on 19 December, 2017, 05:45:04 pm
Wulf is killed in 2185 ("the man who for fifteen long, hard-fought years had been his only normal friend")

Which puts Alpha's death in 2186, a year ahead of where it's usually reckoned due to a 2000AD starscan-type-thingy.

If Wulf's death is very late in 2185, I can go with Steve's 2187 death date for Alpha. The issue is the anniversary of Wulf's death that crops up in The Final Solution.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Steve Green on 19 December, 2017, 05:53:09 pm
Yeah, I can't honestly remember where I picked 2187 from - the dates sometimes tied in with publication + 200 years, sometimes didn't.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Robin Low on 19 December, 2017, 06:00:13 pm
Yeah, I can't honestly remember where I picked 2187 from - the dates sometimes tied in with publication + 200 years, sometimes didn't.

There are some occasional dates in SD that don't really fit with what's now regarded by many of us as definitive (definitive in the sense they're in the strip and tell a coherent story), but on the whole it's possible to do some meaningful detective work to fill out the rest.

Of course, for some of us, there's a whole other timeline to consider....

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Southstreeter on 19 December, 2017, 07:43:53 pm
That’s fab, Robin. The overall picture makes sense. I guess Alpha didn’t age while he was dead, so he’d physically be in his 40s.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Richard on 19 December, 2017, 09:17:25 pm
So it's entirely feasible for Wulf to have an adult son by now.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Steve Green on 19 December, 2017, 09:22:28 pm
Yep.

To be honest, what with time jobs to MC-1 etc. He could have a grandson if they had time to kill.

Or whatever descendants from his original time...
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Trout on 20 December, 2017, 03:04:37 am
Great Christmas proggage, droid people! Just a quick note from me to say thanks for all the hard work in 2017 and I'm glad to be on board for 2018.

Cheeers

- Trout
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Robin Low on 20 December, 2017, 06:51:36 am
So it's entirely feasible for Wulf to have an adult son by now.

Yes, entirely. Looking at the picture we have, I'm guessing Wulf must have fathered him pretty soon after his arrival in the future, making him around 28 at the oldest.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: I, Cosh on 20 December, 2017, 09:55:36 am
So it's entirely feasible for Wulf to have an adult son by now.
Yes, entirely. Looking at the picture we have, I'm guessing Wulf must have fathered him pretty soon after his arrival in the future, making him around 28 at the oldest.
Why does he need to have fathered him in the future?
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Robin Low on 20 December, 2017, 11:43:09 am
So it's entirely feasible for Wulf to have an adult son by now.
Yes, entirely. Looking at the picture we have, I'm guessing Wulf must have fathered him pretty soon after his arrival in the future, making him around 28 at the oldest.
Why does he need to have fathered him in the future?

Okay, that's an interesting idea, but it would involve some more time-travel shenanigans.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Steve Green on 20 December, 2017, 11:46:19 am
It makes a little more sense than having another time job bringing another viking back from the past.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Proudhuff on 20 December, 2017, 11:51:50 am
or he could be a young Wulf? :-\
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Richard on 20 December, 2017, 11:53:14 am
The story's called The Son.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Steve Green on 20 December, 2017, 12:02:39 pm
Should have gone with his mum and have Pissed-off Wulfmum tracking Johnny down. ;)
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 20 December, 2017, 12:09:55 pm
The story's called The Son.

Super, Soaraway…?
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: I, Cosh on 20 December, 2017, 12:17:22 pm
The story's called The Son.
Doesn't say who the father is. Could be The Gronk.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Proudhuff on 20 December, 2017, 01:40:46 pm
The story's called The Son.
Doesn't say who the father is. Could be Kreelman

FTFY
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: NSFTM on 22 December, 2017, 10:32:27 am
Probably flying in the face of popular opinion here, but I didn't like it. 2000ad has felt a bit 'tired' of late

Dredd - fighting the Sovs (again)
Bad Company - I didn't pay much attention to the last outing because it ended neatly over a 1000 progs ago
Savage - I haven't a clue what’s going on, he was a bar man, now he kills Volgs in Berlin on a full moon and fights transformers
ABC Warriors - Massively disjointed, Langley’s art is lovely, don't know where this fits in to the continuity of it all
Ace trucking - another incarnation of a classic story

The standout was Deadworld- Kendals artwork is something else, the story is oppressive, claustrophobic and unpleasant

What I find worrying (and perhaps symptomatic of a bigger problem at the Nerve centre) is there is nothing new in the issue, and as a whole the 'brand' feels as though it is a prisoner of nostalgia

Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Robin Low on 22 December, 2017, 12:23:40 pm
What I find worrying (and perhaps symptomatic of a bigger problem at the Nerve centre) is there is nothing new in the issue, and as a whole the 'brand' feels as though it is a prisoner of nostalgia

To be fair, it is the Christmas issue. If there's one Prog of the year that should be nostalgic it's this one.

Regards,

Robin
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Mardroid on 22 December, 2017, 01:51:11 pm
It makes a little more sense than having another time job bringing another viking back from the past.

Also, while we can't see Wulf Junior's face clearly in the picture it looks like he has a missing nose or something else strange in that area, suggesting he is a mutant, presumably the result of genes inherited from his mother.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Mardroid on 22 December, 2017, 01:53:18 pm
Sorry, I meant to go back and spoiler tag that last party of my post, but I can't edit on this thread. Not much of a spoiler once you see the picture in the Christmas Prog, anyway.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Dandontdare on 22 December, 2017, 02:50:08 pm
Savage - I haven't a clue what’s going on, he was a bar man, now he kills Volgs in Berlin on a full moon and fights transformers

See? You DO know what's going on! You just missed out "while quoting obscure thirty year old song lyrics"
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Woolly on 22 December, 2017, 05:08:49 pm
Dredd - fighting the Sovs (again)

To be fair, this seems more of a team-up with the Sovs than a fight.
And I may be wrong, but I don't think we've been to ground zero at East-Meg One before now.
Can't wait to see where this one goes, myself!

Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 22 December, 2017, 05:17:50 pm
And I may be wrong, but I don't think we've been to ground zero at East-Meg One before now.

Not in the main strip, but some of the spin-offs certainly have.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Woolly on 22 December, 2017, 05:24:02 pm
And I may be wrong, but I don't think we've been to ground zero at East-Meg One before now.

Not in the main strip, but some of the spin-offs certainly have.

Yeah, I should have worded that a bit bettererer  :-\
I meant Dredd.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Steve Green on 22 December, 2017, 05:24:32 pm
Well the sovs were dropped off there at the end of the Apocalypse War while it was still warm... maybe Red Razors (doubt anyone cares), possibly the Inspectre or Samizdat Squad but I can't honestly remember what happens in either.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: dweezil2 on 22 December, 2017, 06:20:25 pm
Great end of year Prog and not a duff story insight, yes even that Starlord parody!  ;)
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Jim_Campbell on 22 December, 2017, 07:07:49 pm
Well the sovs were dropped off there at the end of the Apocalypse War while it was still warm... maybe Red Razors (doubt anyone cares), possibly the Inspectre or Samizdat Squad but I can't honestly remember what happens in either.

The majority of The Inspectre was set at East-Meg One ground zero, but the entire thing was ret-conned out of continuity by Samizdat Squad.

(I am sad about this, but philosophical. If I’d bothered to pitch a follow-up story to Tharg at any time in the last eighteen years, I might have consolidated my claim on one tiny corner of the Dredd universe, but I didn’t…)
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Jacqusie on 22 December, 2017, 08:41:46 pm
Sorry, I meant to go back and spoiler tag that last party of my post, but I can't edit on this thread. Not much of a spoiler once you see the picture in the Christmas Prog, anyway.

Speaking of Spoilers, do we know when the story might start? does it have a prog number please? I don't have the Xmas prog yet.

Carlos has just put up a big picture of Wulf's son now on FB - it looks brill!

Si

Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Mardroid on 23 December, 2017, 08:06:06 am
Sorry, I meant to go back and spoiler tag that last party of my post, but I can't edit on this thread. Not much of a spoiler once you see the picture in the Christmas Prog, anyway.

Speaking of Spoilers, do we know when the story might start? does it have a prog number please? I don't have the Xmas prog yet.

Carlos has just put up a big picture of Wulf's son now on FB - it looks brill!

Si

There isn't a prog no. on the ad, so I don't know as yet. Thanks for the heads up concerning Carlos Ezquerra's picture! I'll have a look for that...
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Dark Jimbo on 23 December, 2017, 10:02:35 am
Sorry, I meant to go back and spoiler tag that last party of my post, but I can't edit on this thread. Not much of a spoiler once you see the picture in the Christmas Prog, anyway.

Speaking of Spoilers, do we know when the story might start? does it have a prog number please? I don't have the Xmas prog yet.

Carlos has just put up a big picture of Wulf's son now on FB - it looks brill!

Si

There isn't a prog no. on the ad, so I don't know as yet. Thanks for the heads up concerning Carlos Ezquerra's picture! I'll have a look for that...

It's the teaser page from the Xmas prog.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Steve Green on 23 December, 2017, 10:40:11 am
Well the sovs were dropped off there at the end of the Apocalypse War while it was still warm... maybe Red Razors (doubt anyone cares), possibly the Inspectre or Samizdat Squad but I can't honestly remember what happens in either.

The majority of The Inspectre was set at East-Meg One ground zero, but the entire thing was ret-conned out of continuity by Samizdat Squad.

(I am sad about this, but philosophical. If I’d bothered to pitch a follow-up story to Tharg at any time in the last eighteen years, I might have consolidated my claim on one tiny corner of the Dredd universe, but I didn’t…)

Yeah, sad to lose that bit of history but you're probably right.

I can remember really old stuff very well, anything from the 90s on I've just a vague memory of. Maybe Tharg's the same...
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Richard on 23 December, 2017, 04:24:05 pm
Since I only reviewed half the prog in my original post, here's my review of the other half.

Brass Sun got off to an excellent start. I had gone off this series a bit last time, but this one looks promising.

Rufus Dayglo has done his best work so far on this episode of Bad Company, helped by vivid colours by Dom Regan. Story is okay, but still expecting an answer to why dead characters are alive again. I presume it has something to do with whatever created Golgotha Joe.

Savage has, as usual, brilliant art by Patrick Goddard, and plenty of action. As discussed already, some interesting historical info from Pat Mills. I was also interested in his point about the morals of Allied soldiers exploiting civilians for sex with chocolate, something I'd never considered before.

I left Ace Trucking Co till last because I wasn't expecting to enjoy it. But as it turned out, it was actually quite good. It had some funny bits, there was a proper story, and it wasn't boring. I didn't mind it.

All in all, I don't think there was a single duff story in this prog.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Colin YNWA on 25 December, 2017, 09:17:57 pm
So the kids packed off to bed after a relaxed and enjoyable day. My wife absorbed by Game of Thrones on thetellybox I was at last able to indulge in my newest X-Mas traditional, breaking open the Christmas Prog, saved as a present to myself...

... and it was a pretty fine treat.

The also new tradition of numbering these big boys as regular progs means that the Dredd being a solid story continuation isn't really too disappointing (do miss the fun one offs though) and boy is Colin MacNeil just knocking it out the park these day. Stunning.

Brass Sun, back and in blistering form already. Loved that final line and well onboard with this already.

Savage the first of too Mills offerings and neither was grating, well done Uncle Pat, now lets see if you can keep this up.

Bad Company  solid recap and set up so lets see how this develops, happy to have this back but hope the duo of Milligan and Dayglo get back to Counterfeit Girl soon... not relevent to this but thought I'd drop it in.

Deadworld continues to completely win me over and this was fantastic.

Ace Trucking Co right its time Tharg made his mind up. Stop messing about with these cute one-off in just about every special this side of 2015 (or whenever it was this returned to us. You got Nigel Dobbyn on board so either give us a proper series of ACE to let it breathe and develop or be done with it I say and get Mr Dobbyn onto something more substancial.

ABC Warriors see Savage, this one was particularly nice set up I thought.

Starlord - this was fantastic fun and just the sort of thing an X-Mas special needs. Loved this.

The text feature I thought would be right up my street but it was all old 'golden age' and I always wish people would look beyond the first 500 progs (there was the odd exception of course) for this type of thing, still good fun.

So yeah all that and some lovely hints (or pages) of things to come and this was a fine way to wrap up the year, or really set up 2018.

I raise a glass (or should that be polythene cup) to you green face - top stuff.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Magnetica on 26 December, 2017, 10:30:47 am
Dredd being a solid story continuation isn't really too disappointing (do miss the fun one offs though) and boy is Colin MacNeil just knocking it out the park these day. Stunning.

It is been a bit of a revelation for me reading some of the Mega Collection volumes, which basically show how great Colin MacNeil has been on Dredd over the years. I have posted previously that it is a shame we don't get more of his painted style (such as on America and Mechanismo) but actually his other style is as good as anything anyone else is doing. I saying is doing, but the Mega Collection read shows he has been "knocking it out of the park" for years.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Colin YNWA on 26 December, 2017, 11:26:10 am
That's a fair comment. I just particularly like this current style.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Tiplodocus on 26 December, 2017, 06:54:34 pm
One thing I thought on first glance was "Boy! This line up must be impenetrable to a new reader or someone with a tiny sauropod brain like myself.".

But I was wrong. Pay a bit of attention when reading and it's all top thrillage!

Hat's off to Tharg and his droids.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Modern Panther on 26 December, 2017, 09:40:41 pm
A short video on Prog 2061

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pLGUk0Hzw8c (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pLGUk0Hzw8c)

(The plan is in 2018 to make short video articles on big releases and collections, for comicsthegathering.com (http://comicsthegathering.com) and this is just intended as a brief trial of the format. I'd be grateful for any comments you gents and ladies might have.)
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Link Prime on 27 December, 2017, 01:39:45 pm
The full-page Nemesis panel was awesome though.

The stand out page in a Thrill packed year-ender.
Really enjoyed this opening installment of ABC Warriors, and the saga seems to be gaining some forward momentum after many books of flashback material.
We can assume that was Blackblood addressing Deadlock 'off-camera', right?
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: IndigoPrime on 27 December, 2017, 02:23:50 pm
Finally had time to read this after weeks of work madness and then Christmas. I'm honestly not sure how I felt about this end-of-year Prog. I almost wish it was a bit more like an annual of old, with more standalone tales, but I recognise the commercial implications of that (rather than a jumping-on Prog that might have people continue).

I'd certainly echo one of the grumbles from elsewhere, that some strips aren't that easy to leap back into. In This Prog helps, but I'd have happily ‘spent’ three pages of this Prog on overviews for Brass Sun, Savage and ABC Warriors.

As for the actual strips, I enjoyed Dredd, which nicely continues the previous arc, and looks to be the start of something a bit different. Brass Sun has long been a favourite, and so I'm already intrigued. I must admit this one really needs a re-read, though.

Things for me take a dip with Savage, which started to lose me some way back. Of Mills's modern work, it's among the best, but I at some point lost the strands of what was going on. Bad Company never really won me back, and so also is a bit HMMM for me, although the art is great.

The Fall of Deadworld is an amusingly anti-festive tale, and I hope adds another strand to what's already for me a standout series in 2000 AD's history. A properly grim horror that works very nicely. Ace Trucking I can take or leave, but won't begrudge an appearance for at this time of year. If nothing else, it's nice to follow Deadworld with something throwaway and amusing.

I don't really know about ABC Warriors. The Langley run never really clicked with me. This set-up at least looks interesting. It'd be nice to have the series eradicate the status quo. And then Starlord, which I'm afraid baffled me. Nice art though.

As for the other bits, great to again see the amazing Lego creations in the Prog, and I enjoyed the thoughts of creators, offering their take on a top moment from the Prog's history. I thought I'd find that stuff dull, but would have happily read another two pages.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: TordelBack on 27 December, 2017, 06:02:19 pm
Saved this one for the St Stephen's Day lull, such as it was, and for once I have to agree with the 'death of comics' crowd: I found it rather paled in comparison with the kids' console games and Lego robots. I certainly found the bearded Han Solo in Battlefront II more compelling than Langley's overfamiliar parade of peanut gallery gurners. MVP was Deadworld (again), with more drokked-up eschatological misery and an intriguing new angle, and I enjoyed the Ace Trucking for the lovely evolution of Dobbyn's style.  Everything else seemed to want me to care about things I just didn't.

But picking through it again today, there was more to like than dislike.  I bounced off Brass Sun the first time, fighting incipient memory loss, but second time through things came back to me and I stopped wishing it was Brink and enjoyed it.  I also fell (probably foolishly,) for the luscious visuals of Bad Company yet again, and the possibility that Truth, while a casualty last time out, was only wounded.

Sadly Dredd remained more of the same, a wounded Dredd and New Judge Character wandering about somewhere far away from the City towards a last-page reveal of some historical nugget from a better tale.  Pretty to look at though.  Savage, often a favourite of mine, seemed to pick up straight away from last time, when I was sort of hoping for something different than a reprise of the Spotify-enabled Bill Daak, Transformer Killer.
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: Fungus on 29 December, 2017, 12:24:08 am
Felt tempted to pick up the bumper prog in Smith's but stuck with digital only...

Have struggled since the last jump-on (2050) - notable exception: Absalom - so hoped for better things and did enjoy it. Thrills that normally don't were more enjoyable than expected (more accessible I guess? That's my level... :) ).

Special mentions for Ace Trucking and Deadworld. I've loved every Ace tale since its risky return, Robson's fun script hits the perfect fun note. Deadworld was the standout strip, it's made me want to give the past books another try. The murky, zombie silliness isn't for me but this self-contained character portrait made me care about this place, suddenly. Wonderful.

Tharg's teasing of new Thrills is welcome. They're definitely needed, and personally I'd welcome some new concepts in 2018. Misses are fine too, try some things out and see what sticks. Way harder than it sounds, but we're allowed a wish-list at Christmas, eh?
 
Title: Re: Prog 2061 - Happy New Year, Bitches!
Post by: sheridan on 01 January, 2018, 12:58:50 am
Anyway, the Wiki article on the Pirates also led to an interesting group called The White Rose:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Rose)

I'm guessing Uncle Pat wouldn't be so interested in this group, as they had an academic background and religious sentiments, and weren't rebellious working class kids.
See, what I think of when I see 'White Rose' is 'White Rose Movement', a British punk and (which I thought had links with New Model Army / Justin Sullivan, but I can't find anything about that at the moment).

Quote
If anyone wants to point me to a good reference or two on the deliberate mass starvation of the German civilian population, I'd be interested.
Robin
I see others have talked about that later in the thread, but I had heard of serious proposals among certain parts of the allied political high command of the 1940s to destroy Germany through means of sterilisation of the current populace and division of the land to surrounding states.