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Spoilers => Prog => : Eamonn Clarke 24 November, 2018, 11:12:05 AM

: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Eamonn Clarke 24 November, 2018, 11:12:05 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/mCsyHBj.jpg)

A key prog which arrived a day early this week. Thank you, Mr Tharg.

Cracking cover by Cliff Robinson with Dylan Teague's colours being the star for me.

Dredd: The Small House wraps up in 8 pages with a new iconic Dredd panel by Williams, Flint, Blythe and Parkhouse. "This is my house!"

Brink. I don't know what she's doing but I'm fascinated to find out. A Le Carre triple cross in a space tincan? The Spy who came in from the Cold Equations.

Sinister Dexter returns with a voyage to the bottom of the sea and 10 pages.

Kingdom: Alpha and Omega continues with the Abnett droid writing 3/4 of the prog and the last page ad is for his Lawless strip in the Meg as well.

A cracking prog with a superb Dredd moment. Has that page gone already, Wiggz?
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: The Amstor Computer 24 November, 2018, 11:38:07 AM
Good prog. Chekhov's gun in full effect in Dredd, but a satisfying moment nonetheless. "The Small House" has been thoroughly enjoyable with a few great moments, but I think I'll be waiting to see if it lives up to the promise of shaking things up in Dredd in the epilogue and subsequent stories in 2019. Jury is definitely out on that for now.

Interesting to note that Frank's fate is handled in a single balloon in a single panel - it wouldn't be out of keeping with Rob Williams' writing to have that be it (and Frank's tale comes to a satisfying end if it is) but the old "if you don't see the body" saying does come to mind.

Brink rumbles on in intriguing fashion, and both Sin/Dex and Kingdom are great. Dan Abnett's productivity is astounding, made more so by the level of quality he's holding his work here and elsewhere at. Not sold on John Charles' colouring on Sin/Dex. It's good work, but in places it feels like it's obscuring Yeowell's linework. On some panels I'm not sure whether I'm looking at Yeowell adding pencil shading to his inks or something the colourist has added and the end result in some places is a very "fuzzy" effect that isn't very pleasing. I've enjoyed his colours on other Sin/Dex strips so maybe there was just a wobble here, or some experimentation that didn't quite work.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Tjm86 24 November, 2018, 12:09:20 PM
Dredd .... Small House .....   jaw ....

Not one for a quick reading.

As for the ramifications, fair point.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: broodblik 24 November, 2018, 12:11:17 PM
If Dan Abnett writes the epilogue next week for Dredd can we then call it 2000 ABnett ?
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Richard 24 November, 2018, 01:41:16 PM
I think Rob Williams is keeping his options open. If we never see Frank again, then he died in this story, and he got a very good send-off. But Hershey could be lying.

Personally I hope he's dead because it's such a good way for him to go out.

I wondered last week how this story would end in just one episode, and that was a very good answer! Love what happened to Smiley. (My only concern is what will new readers who started with prog 2100 make of Gerhart showing up at the end? It will seem like a bit of a deus ex machina to them, although we all know it's not really.)

There's some debate on last week's prog thread about different Dredd writers ignoring each other's work and doing their own thing, in particular with Hershey. But given where Wagner went with Harvey last year, I wonder if the latest developments are more co-ordinated than we realise. Matt Smith could know what's coming up in Hershey's Wagner-ordained future and has briefed the other writers accordingly.

I thought Kingdom was going to end this week, so I'm glad there's going to be a bit more. I also thought a few weeks ago that this might be the last book of this series, but clearly there's still more to come. This is still one of the best series in 2000AD.

After a couple of episodes of talking heads, Brink picks up again, and I'm still hooked.

I disagree with the criticism of the art in SinDex, it looks fine to me. In fact, I prefer it.

Do we know why we've had to wait 11 years for the end of Caballistics (which returns in prog 2111)? That's an even longer wait than Nemesis. And I can't remember what was happening, can anyone who's recently read it please remind us?
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Leigh S 24 November, 2018, 01:44:53 PM
The Dredd remained underwhelming for me I'm afraid.

So Dredd is not a simple tool, but a brilliant schemer because he told someone to hang around the Cursed Earth for months looking at a bit of the wall in the off chance he might see someone worth shooting?  This before Dredd knew he could get any evidence to bring Smiley out of the literal woodwork?That seems like a pretty naive plan to me.  And it ultimately WAS Hershey who saved the day and called off the ninja judges, so all that stepping about her seems to have been for nothing? If you squint a bit and don't think too hard about it, it is all very cool sounding, but under any kind of scrutiny it just doesnt have much weight to it.  Gerhart will tell Dredd one day how he got out of the completely hopeless situation he found himself in when last we saw him?  I assume it involved a horse riding Klegg...   I suppose it does at least clear away a few elements of Dredd continuity I disliked (Smiley and Kazan and ninja judges), so that's something 

Apologies for curmudgeonness!
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Richard 24 November, 2018, 01:53:56 PM
All of those criticisms are completely valid and I agree with all of them, yet I still enjoyed the story in spite of them. So RW must be doing something right.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Frank 24 November, 2018, 02:25:57 PM
I suppose it does at least clear away a few elements of Dredd continuity I disliked (Smiley and Kazan and ninja judges), so that's something

Yay!  The Invisible Ninja Hidden Judge Army era of Dredd is officially over.

We all seem to agree that Williams's writing is great, and you only have to read previous threads to see that the strip is working on every level for most readers.

What Remoaners are discussing is really just a problem inherent to properties media organisations see as permanent fixtures, rather than finite works. See previous (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=45557.msg996538#msg996538).


: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Southstreeter 24 November, 2018, 02:29:40 PM
Re: what’s been happening in Caballistics Inc, I went into the loft this morning to dig out the last episode ‘Nativity’ from 2007. Basically, following Kostabi’s supposed final defeat, the authorities, including Absolam, are worried that he might reappear in Ravne and Demon Jenny’s child, yet to be born, so they are hatching a plot to deal with that. The story ends with a 19th century British soldier being reanimated in Sudan, in order to carry out a job, as yet unspecified (though it may relate to the above). No word on the critically injured Chapter and Verse.

In my head I’d thought the story had been fairly well concluded, though reading this, it clearly hasn’t!
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: broodblik 24 November, 2018, 02:46:10 PM
There's some debate on last week's prog thread about different Dredd writers ignoring each other's work and doing their own thing, in particular with Hershey. But given where Wagner went with Harvey last year, I wonder if the latest developments are more co-ordinated than we realise. Matt Smith could know what's coming up in Hershey's Wagner-ordained future and has briefed the other writers accordingly.

Coming in Feb next year is Judge Dredd Machine Law by John Wagner and Colin MacNeil. This sounds very much like the return of Harvey. So most likely Hersey will still be around.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Frank 24 November, 2018, 03:05:31 PM
Coming in Feb next year is Judge Dredd Machine Law by John Wagner and Colin MacNeil. This sounds very much like the return of Harvey.

Thanks for that, bud. I'd been looking forward to McCreaman returning to that story; only the great Colin MacNeil could make his replacement a cause for celebration.


: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Leigh S 24 November, 2018, 03:19:09 PM
Partially that's the problem, but I think the issues I have with Williams writing here are more fundamental - the Gerdhart "revelation" would fail on its own merits, let alone on top of Dredd having to call in teacher to take out the bullies. At that point, any one of a thousand Judges could ahve pulled that trigger, but that wouldnt ahve been as "cool".  There are other gaping plot holes ("all our ninja judge detecting tech has been stolen!" or contrivances that have nothing to do with restraints on a franchised character - if Dredd HAD had a good strategy to screw over Smiley, that would have been a fist pumping moment. All he really did was blunt force -maybe it woudl ahve been better is Dredd had just bludgeoned him to death - "how's THIS simple tool working out for you?" I agree Williams has written some good Dredds, though for my money, not his long form ones.

I suppose it does at least clear away a few elements of Dredd continuity I disliked (Smiley and Kazan and ninja judges), so that's something

Yay!  The Invisible Ninja Hidden Judge Army era of Dredd is officially over.

We all seem to agree that Williams's writing is great, and you only have to read previous threads to see that the strip is working on every level for most readers.

What Remoaners are discussing is really just a problem inherent to properties media organisations see as permanent fixtures, rather than finite works. See previous (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=45557.msg996538#msg996538).
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Frank 24 November, 2018, 03:31:42 PM
... maybe it would have been better if Dredd had just bludgeoned him to death - "how's THIS simple tool working out for you?"

That's 'the essence of Dredd'!   Deadline for script submissions is March next year, Leigh.


: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Richard 24 November, 2018, 04:06:27 PM
Thanks for the recap, Southstreeter.

In fairness to Rob W, I should say here that Gerhart was last seen in episode 3 of The Small House, so it's not as bad as I thought.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: pauljholden 24 November, 2018, 04:29:32 PM
It's not my place, but shurely "Chums in the Water" would've been a good tag line on that cover...
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: The Amstor Computer 24 November, 2018, 05:05:57 PM
It's not my place, but shurely "Chums in the Water" would've been a good tag line on that cover...

:D

re: Gerhart. When Gerhart took the long walk in prog 2074, Rob had Dredd thinking about the need for allies like Gerhart in conflicts ahead (Smiley in particular) so there was a nice bit of foreshadowing there, and the hanging-the-Gerhart-on-the-wall in the earlier episode of "The Small House" made it clear he was going to be used later on in this story.

Unless I missed something in my initial read, I think the only quibble I've got is that having Gerhart in exactly the right position at exactly the right moment in a pretty fluid situation without the reader having seen any coordination between Dredd and Gerhart (beyond the mentioned-but-unseen-by-the-reader instruction for Gerhart to aim for that point when he took the Long Walk) tips a little into sacrificing internal logic for a cool moment. And it was a cool moment, but one I'd have found a bit more satisfying with a little more foundation in the story itself. Even just a brief scene later in the story with Dredd trying to contact Gerhart and failing, but resolving to keep to their plan  - something like "Gerhart knew there would only be one chance once they'd drawn him out. He'd be there waiting, as long it took..." - would have been enough, I think.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Colin YNWA 24 November, 2018, 05:15:10 PM
Oh what a lovely Prog, what a lovely Prog.

The line-up might be changing but the quality just isn't dropping a notch. Dredd - Small House ends magnificently and offers a wonderfully satisfying conclusion to the tale in itself, the tale that Rob Williams has been building for some time AND leaves things nicely open to run new things out from it. That's quite a balancing act. I'm really looking forward to where all this goes next and finding a time at some point to read the whole thing (the long form story) in one go. Just fantastic Dredd, which feels very modern and fresh while being utterly in place with the wonders of the past.

Oh and Eammon is right "THIS IS MY HOUSE" is the "I'm the man who knocks" for the Joe generation. Oh and I don't think we've seen the last of Frank Hershey and Dredd are on the outs and she's made it quite clear she'll do things to keep the city safe that Dredd isn't aware of, or would approve of. Absolutely no reason why Frank won't be involved in one such plot and I think he'll pop up when we least expect it... or maybe wearing a white horse costume when Dredd needs some support.

All that said I'm not sure its even the best thing in the Prog! Brink could be that. Its just fantastic, I love seeing Bridget twist and apparently squirm, though I think scheme, to keep herself alive and on the case. Just wonderful stuff.... so that's Dabnett 1...

...Dabnett 2 might also be the best thing in the Prog, 10 pages of the current master and the Might Yeowell is a joy. The Mighty Yeowell's art finds new ways to develop and grow and for me is a joy once more. The story is such a Bondesque delight and I can't wait to see how this goes next week...

...which leaves us Dabnett 3... yes he's got 20 pages in the Prog this week AND not one of thems a dud as Kingdom could also be the best thing in the Prog as well. Blinding episode, pulling everything together and driving things on for a thrilling conclusion next week. Just thrilling.

So basically everything in the Prog could be the best thing in the Prog and that's an honest assessment of the glory that is Tharg's organ these days.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: IndigoPrime 24 November, 2018, 06:54:56 PM
The weird thing is, for its intention as a fist-pumping moment, Dredd's "this is my house" and the subsequent row with Hershey just made Dredd for me come across as an arsehole. Hey, Dredd, you've been offered the responsibility of the role multiple times, and you won't take it, because your place is "on the streets". You won't even take an official senior role. Perhaps wind your neck in a bit, then, rather than barking at Hershey to "consider your position" just because you've got annoyed at things she's done in the interests of the position. "You knew the job." Sure. So did/do you – and you won't step up.

Over the years, he's come across like no-one's ever managed to be quite right in that role, although he often went along with some seriously shitty orders (most notably under Silver). Now, with Hershey, he starts becoming full-on grump, and yet won't take the role himself? Shit or get off the pot, Mr Tight Boots.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Jim_Campbell 24 November, 2018, 06:59:54 PM
So basically everything in the Prog could be the best thing in the Prog and that's an honest assessment of the glory that is Tharg's organ these days.

True. We’ve had a fantastic run of progs and maybe there’ll be a less exciting run in the near future but I wish the doom-sayers would remember that you’re never really more than a couple of weeks away from a run that’s this good.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Jim_Campbell 24 November, 2018, 07:01:11 PM

Over the years, he's come across like no-one's ever managed to be quite right in that role, although he often went along with some seriously shitty orders (most notably under Silver). Now, with Hershey, he starts becoming full-on grump, and yet won't take the role himself? Shit or get off the pot, Mr Tight Boots.

This was one of things I really liked about Ewing’s take on the Hershey/Dredd relationship.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Steve Green 24 November, 2018, 07:32:51 PM
The weird thing is, for its intention as a fist-pumping moment, Dredd's "this is my house" and the subsequent row with Hershey just made Dredd for me come across as an arsehole. Hey, Dredd, you've been offered the responsibility of the role multiple times, and you won't take it, because your place is "on the streets". You won't even take an official senior role. Perhaps wind your neck in a bit, then, rather than barking at Hershey to "consider your position" just because you've got annoyed at things she's done in the interests of the position. "You knew the job." Sure. So did/do you – and you won't step up.

Over the years, he's come across like no-one's ever managed to be quite right in that role, although he often went along with some seriously shitty orders (most notably under Silver). Now, with Hershey, he starts becoming full-on grump, and yet won't take the role himself? Shit or get off the pot, Mr Tight Boots.

Great, now I'm thinking of Jacob Rees Mogg or any of the ERG as Dredd.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Magnetica 24 November, 2018, 08:46:50 PM
Great Prog yet again.

The Small House wraps up well and leaves me wanting me. Based purely on what was in the story it seems odd Hershey is allowing Dredd's insubordination. The Rob Williams interview from a couple of weeks ago gave an explanation - that she knows he has a point. But it would be good to have that explained in the story itself.

Brink just gets better and better, which is quite a trick given how amazing it is. Gentry seems to be taking quite a risk with his approach, but I guess it is the only way to keep Kurtis alive.

It is always great to have Sinister Dexter back in the Prog.

Not sold on John Charles' colouring on Sin/Dex. It's good work, but in places it feels like it's obscuring Yeowell's linework. On some panels I'm not sure whether I'm looking at Yeowell adding pencil shading to his inks or something the colourist has added and the end result in some places is a very "fuzzy" effect that isn't very pleasing. I've enjoyed his colours on other Sin/Dex strips so maybe there was just a wobble here, or some experimentation that didn't quite work.

I actually liked the colouring and the "fuzzy effect". Yes they were obscuring Steve Yeowell's trade mark clean lines, but I though the overall effect was really good.

Yet more Abnett goodness in Kingdom.

If Dan Abnett writes the epilogue next week for Dredd can we then call it 2000 ABnett ?

I wonder if a single writer has written a whole Prog before (not counting the single story Progs)? I guess if it has ever happened that writer was called Pat Mills or John Wagner (or Wagner - Grant partnership  - I guess that would count).

I don't often comment on the cover, but it seemed oddly similar to Prog 2102 to me.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Jim_Campbell 24 November, 2018, 09:39:33 PM
If Dan Abnett writes the epilogue next week for Dredd can we then call it 2000 ABnett ?

It was a long-standing joke amongst 2000AD freelancers in the 90s that come the year 2000, the comic would be called 2000DA, after the man who seemed to be writing four out of every five strips in the prog at the time.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Geoff 25 November, 2018, 05:24:40 PM
"This is MY HOUSE...creep!" Love it!

Yes, there are some pretty valid criticisms but overall I've really enjoyed the Small House. Good to see Dredd acting with some conviction and dishing it out rather than getting blown up or beaten to pulp. By recent standards the nasty gut-shot is pretty mild...
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: matty_ae 25 November, 2018, 08:40:29 PM
The Small House worked for me.
Havent been this interested in the prog since the end of Dante.
Prog is on fire.
Love it.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Woolly 26 November, 2018, 01:22:30 PM
The Dredd remained underwhelming for me I'm afraid.

So Dredd is not a simple tool, but a brilliant schemer because he told someone to hang around the Cursed Earth for months looking at a bit of the wall in the off chance he might see someone worth shooting?  This before Dredd knew he could get any evidence to bring Smiley out of the literal woodwork?That seems like a pretty naive plan to me.  And it ultimately WAS Hershey who saved the day and called off the ninja judges, so all that stepping about her seems to have been for nothing? If you squint a bit and don't think too hard about it, it is all very cool sounding, but under any kind of scrutiny it just doesnt have much weight to it.  Gerhart will tell Dredd one day how he got out of the completely hopeless situation he found himself in when last we saw him?  I assume it involved a horse riding Klegg...   I suppose it does at least clear away a few elements of Dredd continuity I disliked (Smiley and Kazan and ninja judges), so that's something 

Apologies for curmudgeonness!

Yup, my feelings exactly.
Also, Dredd didn't know that Smiley had allowed the apocalypse war to happen until he saw the files. So why was he planning to kill Smiley via Conveniant Gerhart in the first place? Wouldn't it be better to, y'know, arrest him instead? Like a Judge would?
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Leigh S 26 November, 2018, 02:13:07 PM
From now on, I will judge any supposed Epic on whether Anthrax could do a new verse of I Am The Law based on it:


In the Halls of Justice, lived Judge Smileeeey!

With some digestives and a cup of teaaa!

Dredd had enough of invisible Judge Ninjaaaas!

So he blew some up and nicked their binoculaaars!

He just happened to find a hidden USB stiiiick!

concealed by Kazan's dead clone, what a priiick!

He met Judge Smiley so he could take him to taaaask!

Hershey sorted it 'cause he finally aaaaasked!



: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Greg M. 26 November, 2018, 02:30:30 PM
From now on, I will judge any supposed Epic on whether Anthrax could do a new verse of I Am The Law based on it

I used to think all this Judge Smiley malarkey was absolutely awful stuff - a real low point in my enjoyment or otherwise of Dredd - but the creation of your verse has single-handedly justified its existence and restored my faith in humanity.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: BPP 26 November, 2018, 08:39:53 PM
The Dredd remained underwhelming for me I'm afraid.

So Dredd is not a simple tool, but a brilliant schemer because he told someone to hang around the Cursed Earth for months looking at a bit of the wall in the off chance he might see someone worth shooting?  This before Dredd knew he could get any evidence to bring Smiley out of the literal woodwork?That seems like a pretty naive plan to me.  And it ultimately WAS Hershey who saved the day and called off the ninja judges, so all that stepping about her seems to have been for nothing? If you squint a bit and don't think too hard about it, it is all very cool sounding, but under any kind of scrutiny it just doesnt have much weight to it.  Gerhart will tell Dredd one day how he got out of the completely hopeless situation he found himself in when last we saw him?  I assume it involved a horse riding Klegg...   I suppose it does at least clear away a few elements of Dredd continuity I disliked (Smiley and Kazan and ninja judges), so that's something 

Apologies for curmudgeonness!

Yup, my feelings exactly.
Also, Dredd didn't know that Smiley had allowed the apocalypse war to happen until he saw the files. So why was he planning to kill Smiley via Conveniant Gerhart in the first place? Wouldn't it be better to, y'know, arrest him instead? Like a Judge would?

Because Dredd has dealt with enough wiley foxes to know they won’t be taken easily. Because he dosent under-estimate Smiley And knows there is a long game and many solders if not exactly what.

Next thing you know you’ll be doubting the existence of Kleggs and pondering just how a gun could laser out a whole intersection at the rate of 9.8ms (increasing).

Oh and the whole ‘rob Williams horse’ thing... bit off frankly lads, Henry Flint said he wanted to draw Dredd on horseback so Williams obliged. So slag it off as Henry Flint’s Horse. For me it was a brilliant needle drop moment and part of an amazing section (the whole save the chief judge / dirty frank interaction). But I guess it’s not for some. Nor it seems the frankly franktastic Small House. To those I’d ask - what exactly is?
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Richard 26 November, 2018, 08:45:42 PM
To be fair to Henry Flint, he didn't ask to draw an inexplicable horse, just a horse. He's not responsible for the writing.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Frank 26 November, 2018, 09:01:02 PM
Henry Flint said he wanted to draw Dredd on horseback so Williams obliged. So slag it off as Henry Flint’s Horse.

Rob Williams said* Flint's Dark Knight Returns request made him think of the inexplicable horse he and RM Guerra had already introduced in The Man Comes Around (https://i.imgur.com/882gXgx.jpg)**

* On the Thrillcast, I think

** Meg 344 (2014)
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: BPP 26 November, 2018, 09:19:46 PM
Henry Flint said he wanted to draw Dredd on horseback so Williams obliged. So slag it off as Henry Flint’s Horse.

Rob Williams said* Flint's Dark Knight Returns request made him think of the inexplicable horse he and RM Guerra had already introduced in The Man Comes Around (https://i.imgur.com/882gXgx.jpg)**

* On the Thrillcast, I think

** Meg 344 (2014)


Q - Henry’s art on Titan really was just superb, with a Hershey who just bristled with pissed off authority in practically every scene. And then there’s the fabulous colouring throughout, including those really striking pages shot through with red emergency lighting. And that image on Dredd on horseback – a nod to Miller’s Dark Knight?

RW: I think Henry said to me at one point that he fancied drawing Dredd on horseback.

From this website, October 2018.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Leigh S 26 November, 2018, 09:20:20 PM
Indeed, and as Richard said, even if it was Flint's idea for an image, it is the writer's job to make sure it makes sense, storywise - If Ron Smith had wanted to see Dredd on a pogo stick, I don't think the finale of the Judge Child would have been the best place to introduce it....

Henry Flint said he wanted to draw Dredd on horseback so Williams obliged. So slag it off as Henry Flint’s Horse.

Rob Williams said* Flint's Dark Knight Returns request made him think of the inexplicable horse he and RM Guerra had already introduced in The Man Comes Around (https://i.imgur.com/882gXgx.jpg)**

* On the Thrillcast, I think

** Meg 344 (2014)

: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Woolly 26 November, 2018, 09:34:38 PM
The Dredd remained underwhelming for me I'm afraid.

So Dredd is not a simple tool, but a brilliant schemer because he told someone to hang around the Cursed Earth for months looking at a bit of the wall in the off chance he might see someone worth shooting?  This before Dredd knew he could get any evidence to bring Smiley out of the literal woodwork?That seems like a pretty naive plan to me.  And it ultimately WAS Hershey who saved the day and called off the ninja judges, so all that stepping about her seems to have been for nothing? If you squint a bit and don't think too hard about it, it is all very cool sounding, but under any kind of scrutiny it just doesnt have much weight to it.  Gerhart will tell Dredd one day how he got out of the completely hopeless situation he found himself in when last we saw him?  I assume it involved a horse riding Klegg...   I suppose it does at least clear away a few elements of Dredd continuity I disliked (Smiley and Kazan and ninja judges), so that's something 

Apologies for curmudgeonness!

Yup, my feelings exactly.
Also, Dredd didn't know that Smiley had allowed the apocalypse war to happen until he saw the files. So why was he planning to kill Smiley via Conveniant Gerhart in the first place? Wouldn't it be better to, y'know, arrest him instead? Like a Judge would?

Because Dredd has dealt with enough wiley foxes to know they won’t be taken easily. Because he dosent under-estimate Smiley And knows there is a long game and many solders if not exactly what.

Next thing you know you’ll be doubting the existence of Kleggs and pondering just how a gun could laser out a whole intersection at the rate of 9.8ms (increasing).

Oh and the whole ‘rob Williams horse’ thing... bit off frankly lads, Henry Flint said he wanted to draw Dredd on horseback so Williams obliged. So slag it off as Henry Flint’s Horse. For me it was a brilliant needle drop moment and part of an amazing section (the whole save the chief judge / dirty frank interaction). But I guess it’s not for some. Nor it seems the frankly franktastic Small House. To those I’d ask - what exactly is?

Firstly, I'm not having a pop at Henry Flint - his art is untouchable.
Secondly, I don't agree that Dredd would set up such a ropey plan without already having all the evidence he needs (which he clearly didn't), especially when he thinks Hershey is involved (which he clearly did).
Thirdly, no matter how cool Dredd on horseback looks, it's still a daft idea.

Accepting all this just because Rob Williams wrote it?
Sorry, but no.

Apologies if I've misread your post.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Woolly 26 November, 2018, 09:39:37 PM
And another thing - this isn't Dredd's house, it's Justice Department's house. It's a house of justice.
Maybe Dredd needs to get down from his high-horse...*


*(pun intended)
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Frank 26 November, 2018, 09:40:51 PM
RW: I think Henry said to me at one point that he fancied drawing Dredd on horseback.

From this website, October 2018.

I know, mate. What I remember Williams saying is that Flint asking to draw Dredd on horseback made him (Williams) think of using the horse he'd already introduced in that earlier strip.

So, as Richard said earlier, Flint's the reason a horse is in there, but Williams is the reason it's a magic horsey.


: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: BPP 26 November, 2018, 10:02:41 PM
All horses are magic, as is friendship.

Did My Little Pony teach you NOTHING?!
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Frank 26 November, 2018, 10:09:42 PM
All horses are magic, as is friendship. Did My Little Pony teach you NOTHING?!

Arf!   I should add I didn't have a problem with Dobbin. I don't think it was a masterstroke, but it was a style of storytelling the strip hadn't seen before - which, after 40 years, is something.


: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: JOE SOAP 26 November, 2018, 10:57:09 PM


They missed a trick in The Small House by not having Gerhart ride in from the Cured Earth on Henry Ford.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Richard 26 November, 2018, 11:10:49 PM
BPP should be tied to a chair and forced to post incessantly in this forum.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: wedgeski 27 November, 2018, 09:41:48 AM
And another thing - this isn't Dredd's house, it's Justice Department's house. It's a house of justice.
Maybe Dredd needs to get down from his high-horse...*
That's a good take-away from the story, though, innit?
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: BPP 27 November, 2018, 10:31:27 AM
As Dredd is a clone he is part of the house.

Retired clones have the option of the long walk or bingo caller at eldster clubs across the city.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Tiplodocus 27 November, 2018, 04:24:39 PM
It's not my place, but shurely "Chums in the Water" would've been a good tag line on that cover...

But the joke is that THEY are the sharks. I think.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Frank 27 November, 2018, 05:23:38 PM
All horses are magic, as is friendship. Did My Little Pony teach you NOTHING?!

I realise everyone else has moved on with their lives and started Christmas shopping and stuff, but I remembered where I read Rob Williams describing the decision to include Champion The Wonder What All That Was About Horse in Enceladus:

'I think Henry said to me at one point that he fancied drawing Dredd on horseback. I’d written a sort of “phantom” horse into my Dredd story 'The Man Comes Around' that RM Guera drew so beautifully. So bringing the horse back at the end of Enceladus - like a symbol of Dredd at the very end - that felt really exciting. Taking Dredd to some primal, guttural place. The subjective walls of reality kind of crumbling a bit.'


https://2000ad.com/post/4304


: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Geoff 27 November, 2018, 07:18:08 PM
It IS Dredd's house...have you forgotten Dredd IS the LAW!

Can't decide if the explanation about the horse makes it more or less ridiculous...
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Leigh S 27 November, 2018, 09:02:13 PM
That raises a question -the story is called "The Small House", but is that phrase ever used in the story?
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Frank 27 November, 2018, 09:22:16 PM
That raises a question -the story is called "The Small House", but is that phrase ever used in the story?

The phrase was repeated a couple of weeks ago, when Dredd busted into Smiley's sitting room:

(https://i.imgur.com/1jJSltB.jpg?2)


: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Leigh S 27 November, 2018, 09:28:23 PM
Yeah - though the blue b/g on that suggests it isnt a Dredd inner monolgue - he talks to Smiley about coming to his little house and bringing it down, but ultimately Dredd's "YOUR small house?" rant this week seems like a little but more reality breaking "I know I'm in a story called "The Small House", so I'd better make a pun around it when I kill this dude" moment than anything else, if it is indeed the case that no one openly refers to Smiley's set up as "The Small House"?
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Jim_Campbell 27 November, 2018, 09:43:06 PM
That raises a question -the story is called "The Small House", but is that phrase ever used in the story?

It’s a typo — it was meant to read “The Small Horse”…
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: broodblik 28 November, 2018, 02:47:27 AM
Dredd – I really like the ending and what an entry from Gerhardt (hopefully we will get his story as well). Let us see the ripple effect of changes in 2019

Sinister Dexter – I am not the greatest fan, but I really like this installment

Brink – Again a very slow-burner this week for it looks like a more action pack episode next week

Kingdom – This is just silently going on and doing its business. It definitely
does not look likes the end of series so hopefully it will continue after the story has conclude.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Frank 28 November, 2018, 10:06:45 AM
Yeah - though the blue b/g on that suggests it isnt a Dredd inner monolgue - he talks to Smiley about coming to his little house and bringing it down, but ultimately Dredd's "YOUR small house?" rant this week seems like a little but more reality breaking "I know I'm in a story called "The Small House", so I'd better make a pun around it when I kill this dude" moment than anything else, if it is indeed the case that no one openly refers to Smiley's set up as "The Small House"?

I've read the story now and I see your point. Nobody, not even Smiley, even refers to his lair as his house*

I loved Dredd's original and thematically consistent method of dispatching The Smiles. Hopefully, a few years from now, some clever artist given a script that calls for a scene on the West Wall will depict a sun-bleached half-skeleton embedded in the rockreteTM.

Smiley using a Dark Judge 'Teleporting(!)' (https://i.imgur.com/HiNggiE.jpg) belt was consistent with a character retroactively dropped into the history of the strip, but if we were looking for a thematically appropriate way of overcoming a character defined by secrecy and invisibility, maybe exposing him publicly and letting the masses tear him apart would have been even more apt than a hidden assassin (Gerhart).

Having Smiley's justification for The Apocalypse War echo TB Grover's motivation - that the city had grown too large - was very clever, meta, and made me chuckle.


* That's probably just the kind of oversight that creeps in when writing a story with lots of moving parts, but Dredd taking a look at the title text floating above the panels on the first page and commenting on them fits with the self-referential mode - characters aware they're in a story - with which Williams has become associated, most notably with Ichabod's self-aware horse - 'I am a horse' - and that story's use of panel borders as a plot point and *literal* obstacle for his characters to overcome. Like I say, in this case, it's almost certainly a minor, unintentional aporia, but (even inadvertently) it's of a piece with Sam's misunderstanding of his function in the same narrative (2105 (https://i.imgur.com/NfB2Jvz.jpg)) and the self-reflexive mode established by Williams from his very first Dredd (https://i.imgur.com/yUlNe6X.jpg) (The Biographer, 1537). Sigmund Freud, a man who saw cocks everywhere he looked, thought there was no such thing as a meaningless mistake, and that even these kind of slips were revealing of psychology. Even if you can't fully get behind any theory proposed by a fella who fancied his mum, it's interesting to wonder what psychological tells might creep into the work of someone writing a character they know belongs to someone else. Distancing techniques that project and comment upon their own feelings of alienation and imposter syndrome, I'd expect ...
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Will Cooling 28 November, 2018, 01:28:45 PM

You say there was a nonsensical pun in a Judge Dredd story?

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f4b760cf-7f29-4e5b-a5d4-3b674a705c7c
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: broodblik 28 November, 2018, 03:24:02 PM

Not sold on John Charles' colouring on Sin/Dex. It's good work, but in places it feels like it's obscuring Yeowell's linework. On some panels I'm not sure whether I'm looking at Yeowell adding pencil shading to his inks or something the colourist has added and the end result in some places is a very "fuzzy" effect that isn't very pleasing. I've enjoyed his colours on other Sin/Dex strips so maybe there was just a wobble here, or some experimentation that didn't quite work.

I actually liked the colouring and the "fuzzy effect". Yes they were obscuring Steve Yeowell's trade mark clean lines, but I though the overall effect was really good.


Yes the colouring do change Yeowell lines but the overall effect works for me and looks really good
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Tiplodocus 28 November, 2018, 04:10:11 PM
More top proggage. The lightness of Sinister Dexter in a Bond romp is a nice contrast to the tone of the other tales. And yeah, I think I like the shading effect in the colours.

BRINK just blows my socks off at how a complex tale, with complex character motivations, is executed with seemingly effortless simplicity of script and art.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Proudhuff 28 November, 2018, 04:47:48 PM
Smiley was PJ Maybe all along!!  :-X
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Frank 28 November, 2018, 07:01:39 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/sLredya.jpg?2)


I knew that name was going to pay-off, eventually.


: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: DrJomster 28 November, 2018, 11:14:15 PM


They missed a trick in The Small House by not having Gerhart ride in from the Cured Earth on Henry Ford.

Excellent! I would have loved that and hated it at the same time, but mostly loved it.

I really enjoyed Dredd and Brink and am not going to overanalyse it. Mostly because I’m a bit slow. Great prog overall. Really good in fact. Again.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Trout 29 November, 2018, 03:44:12 AM
Yeah, that was some good Dredd writing. I enjoyed it a lot. Brink is also top-quality thrillage.

I think I'll be back for more 2000 AD hijnks next week!
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: norton canes 29 November, 2018, 09:52:22 AM
I've mentioned this before, but as someone who only came back to the prog last year after bailing in the early 90's - most of the continuity in The Small House has gone completely over my head, but I've enjoyed the story and the standard of writing nevertheless. If this is the sort of ongoing, interconnected drama that Rob Williams comes up with for JD:MC1 then I'm sure it'll be spectacular.

Since I'm someone who can't stand Dan Abnett the rest of the prog is a complete write-off naaaaaaaaaaahh just kidding, he's infuriatingly good isn't he. Just give some other droids a chance, man. Brink just became exponentially more gripping, as if it wasn't tense enough already, with Kurtis's double bluff gambit. I'm not sure if the 'fuzzy' quality of the SinDex art wasn't intentional - with the thought-bubbles and floating heads it seems to be developing into a (pastiche of a) 1970's, TV Countdown-style sci-fi strip. And Kingdom hurtles towards the end of its latest chapter in typically vigorous fashion.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Proudhuff 29 November, 2018, 12:50:29 PM
Surprised at the lack o love here for this excellent Dredd, yes a wee 'Good to go Maitland' comms between Maitland and Gerhart would have plug that wee plot hole,  Dredd is a blunt instrument, but an experienced one. hence the planning.
layers, like an onion, donkey.

I'm toying  the idea that Smiley allowed Cal to prosper (Smiley won't have been in the sleep machines) so Cal would reduce the population and build the West Wall, to keep all that out there...
layers, like an onion, donkey.

As for the Hershey/Dredd thing, again loving how the job is driving them apart, you can feel Hershey anger at old Stoney Pus and his binary view.
layers, like an onion, donkey.

Great stuff, more Tharg baby more!
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: broodblik 29 November, 2018, 01:36:15 PM
The Small House was a really great Dredd story. I can not wait for the full thing to come out as a complete collection
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Max Headroom 29 November, 2018, 03:42:11 PM
The complete collection lists 'Act of Grud' as the prologue to 'The Small House', but unfortunately I have no recollection of this 3-parter - can someone say when it appeared??
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: BPP 29 November, 2018, 03:49:05 PM
Prog 2004-06 (end of 2016)

Dredd, Sam And Giant vs the ninja invisible judges
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Will Cooling 29 November, 2018, 03:58:42 PM
Surprised at the lack o love here for this excellent Dredd, yes a wee 'Good to go Maitland' comms between Maitland and Gerhart would have plug that wee plot hole,  Dredd is a blunt instrument, but an experienced one. hence the planning.
layers, like an onion, donkey.

I'm toying  the idea that Smiley allowed Cal to prosper (Smiley won't have been in the sleep machines) so Cal would reduce the population and build the West Wall, to keep all that out there...
layers, like an onion, donkey.

As for the Hershey/Dredd thing, again loving how the job is driving them apart, you can feel Hershey anger at old Stoney Pus and his binary view.
layers, like an onion, donkey.

Great stuff, more Tharg baby more!

My gut is that Rob Williams is doing Breaking Bad style scripting where those obvious scenes are skipped because a) you want to maintain a fast pace b) those scenes are boring in of themselves and c) you trust your audience to fill in the blanks.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: norton canes 29 November, 2018, 04:37:44 PM
I've got a random prog from about ten years ago where the Dredd story involves the testing of a new high-speed Manta tank (or some kind of new Justice Division tech) but it's outpaced by a mysterious stealth craft. Was that part of the Small House arc?
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Dark Jimbo 29 November, 2018, 04:46:12 PM
I've got a random prog from about ten years ago where the Dredd story involves the testing of a new high-speed Manta tank (or some kind of new Justice Division tech) but it's outpaced by a mysterious stealth craft. Was that part of the Small House arc?

I'm guessing that's prog 1554?

No, that was one of Gordon Rennie's stories - part of the 'House of Pain' arc. All his story threads have been dropped since he stopped writing Dredd.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Proudhuff 29 November, 2018, 05:25:42 PM
Wasn't the wheelchair bound Kazan one of the GRennie's droids hanging chads?  Could easily have misremembered that  :-[
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Jim_Campbell 29 November, 2018, 05:37:59 PM
Wasn't the wheelchair bound Kazan one of the GRennie's droids hanging chads?  Could easily have misremembered that  :-[

I'm pretty sure you're right.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Leigh S 29 November, 2018, 06:15:02 PM
I'm not sure I get the Breaking Bad analogy, as I think that is very tightly plotted and gives you all the information required, though I admit I am still on season 3, so maybe random animals crop up to save the day later on?

For me, it is much more like Doctor Who, and vast swathes of modern story telling, where plot logic (and real world logic) are sacrificed for THE BIG MOMENT or CHARACTER CONFLICT or SEE WHAT I DID THERE?

As with most things, I blame Alan Moore, who could do all of the above.  But he earned all of the above by not jettisoning believability. That isnt to say real world  standards, but applying a consistent set of rules to your world - for me, Adam West Batman is more believable than Bale Batman because it establishes that the rules are different and sticks to that.

Writers nowadays are happy to present (or perhaps audiences are now accustomed to accept) vast logical leaps, multiple deus ex machinas,  contradictions and character shifts if it serves some  other narrative purpose - though sadly this isall too oftenmaking the writer/audience feel clever for spotting the meta reference.  I want clever stuff that you can endless dissect, sure, but craft is as important as art for me, and artless craft is as unsatisfying as craftless art - in fact craftless art is much less satisfying (probably why I am preferring the Toxic Dredd over in IDW land?). 

Ultimately, Dredd goes against Smiley and tension is built because we are led to believe he is outmatched by a superior intellect and unsupported by his closest ally - all good.

But to get there we have Dirty Frank needing to be rescued by Senstive Klegg for reasons, for Dredd to pussyfoot around asking Hershey, but having to ask her anyway and that working out just fine (was it a romantic comedy?)

 What happens to the one ninja judge they take alive?  Do they kill him? release him? does he escape when Frank kills Sam?  who cares, he has served his "story purpose", so we can forget about him now. All those ninja Judges killed, and nothing to show for it.

All of Dredd's attempts to get dirt on Smiley don't succeed.  He gets to kill some Judges but they are possibly "bad" judges but they might be "good judges", but Dredd think they are bad so he can shoot a few - Where does Dredd think he is going with this?  If Hershey ISNT on his side, he is screwed anyway, so it feels like fake drama.  Either the system is corrupt to the top and Dredd is proving what exactly by shooting some up (indeed, it appears that Hershey WAS, if not entirely happy, complicit with the compromised Smiley way of doing things.

Luckily, Dredd gets to randomly uncover that Smiley isnt just doing bad things for the beneift of the city, but also bad things to the detriment of the city. OK, thats fortunate, because without that his crusade was royally misjudged.  He only finds the hidden USB stick after he has already arranged to assassinate Smiley on the wall.  He has planned this somehow with a man who was banished to the Cursed Earth months previous and at a time when he has no evidence to justify Smiley's execution....

Ultimately, Hershey is OK with Dredd's non Judicial execution plan - phew!

Gah, honestly, if you like it more power, but I absolutely hate story telling that prioritises "cool", "character moments" and "EPIC!" to the detriment of plot.  You can have both you know!
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: broodblik 29 November, 2018, 06:18:18 PM
I've got a random prog from about ten years ago where the Dredd story involves the testing of a new high-speed Manta tank (or some kind of new Justice Division tech) but it's outpaced by a mysterious stealth craft. Was that part of the Small House arc?

I'm guessing that's prog 1554?

No, that was one of Gordon Rennie's stories - part of the 'House of Pain' arc. All his story threads have been dropped since he stopped writing Dredd.

Yes it was Prog 1554 called "Test Flight" with Rennie adding words and MacNeil adding some pictures. Not part of the House arc
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: The Sherman Kid 29 November, 2018, 07:31:42 PM
Dredd Got to agree with Leigh that The Small House really doesn't make a lot of sense, far too many plot-holes for me to enjoy it (although the art was excellent).

As for the ending, that was a full face palm. Smiley explanation 1/ The city needed culling  :o Wtf!? What sense does that make? It was powerful because of its size.2/ War game scenarios predicted 90% chance of winning. What? In what reality?:o :o :o :think: :think: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: Even less sense.

The Dredd/Hershey tap dance did end satisfactorily either -just the oft repeated lecture Dredd gives to CJ's down the years, without anything new, so again, disappointing for me.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Steve Green 29 November, 2018, 07:57:39 PM
I dunno, once you get into the space economics of how MC-1 works - massive unemployment, near full automation it's all a bit up in the air.

Some kind of overdosing of the tranq gas to bring the population down steadily might have been a bit less drastic...

I wonder if he'd had democratic sympathies and it was a long-term plan to deconstruct the judges - that might have been an interesting route to take.

As for Frank, there's an epilogue story called Pets coming.

I'm not sure if I liked it or not, Hershey's descent from being fairly liberal to being involved in this, I'm not sure about - but it kept me interested.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Dandontdare 29 November, 2018, 08:47:59 PM
Without wishing to sound like a Trump supporter, have we seen any evidence of collusion? Dredd's had his doubts about Hershey and decided he couldn't trust her, but I can't recall if he ever found proof that she knew about Smiley.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Frank 29 November, 2018, 08:57:11 PM

(https://i.imgur.com/BK415Kr.jpg?2)


: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Leigh S 29 November, 2018, 09:37:53 PM
That's the stuff Frank - people are weirdly open about this covert stuff given Dredd is happy to put  a bullet through your neck.

This final part makes it explicit that it is just Dredd's hunch that Smiley covered up the Sovs plans - Smiley isnt that clever  is he?  A quick "well I told Griffin, but no one was interested / could do anything" and Dredd looks like a right sap.

: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: The Sherman Kid 29 November, 2018, 09:59:35 PM

This final part makes it explicit that it is just Dredd's hunch that Smiley covered up the Sovs plans - Smiley isnt that clever  is he?  A quick "well I told Griffin, but no one was interested / could do anything" and Dredd looks like a right sap.

Exactly -plot hole #22 . Pity really there was potential in the story, but it opted for 'oh look there's a Klegg, or Frank' etc too often.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: jabish 30 November, 2018, 07:53:25 AM
Leigh S. That long post of yours is terrific. Nail on the head time about some modern storytelling. I agree about Alan Moore giving the big reveals while still keeping you in a cohesive world he’s built and of course John Wagner was doing that for years before him. And still is. Small House was stunningly drawn and a page turner. And I enjoyed it week to week which says a lot for it as some thrills I now save to read I one go as they don’t seem to be built in weekly instalments. Maybe it was designed to be read in the moment and not thought too much about after. I see the Next instalment in John Wagner’s Mechanismo story is about to kick off in the new year, which of course has a Dredd v Hershey element too. Chances of it referencing Small House are low I’d say. We have 4 or 5 different Dredds at the moment. Alas. But then ‘This is my house (character)’ :P My two cents. JB
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: wedgeski 30 November, 2018, 09:13:57 AM
As for the ending, that was a full face palm. Smiley explanation 1/ The city needed culling  :o Wtf!? What sense does that make? It was powerful because of its size.2/ War game scenarios predicted 90% chance of winning. What? In what reality?:o :o :o :think: :think: :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: Even less sense.
The Sovs had quite a few game-changing surprises for Mega-City One back then.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: The Sherman Kid 30 November, 2018, 09:43:38 AM
One last thing -the death of Blondel Dupre was casually thrown in as amongst those assassinated by Smiley (as authorised by the CJ at the time), this also irked.

Dupre was the former leader of the democratic movement -(and quite an important character in Dredd history) . Dredd freed her before his long walk, becoming the Dead Man before returning to end Necropolis.

In the aftermath (Better the Devil you Know) Dredd pushes for an election mandate for the Judges, with support from McGruder and Hershey against Dupre and the democratic factions. Of course Dredd wins (substantive threat of democrats over).

Now it's casually thrown in either McGruder or Hershey (who sided with Dredd) agreed to have Dupre killed anyway  :o :crazy: What? Also several judges (why not send them to Titan? or are just bad opinions good enough to kill even judges -apparently so now).

To me it was yet another, 'look at this' moment that was ill-thought out. I normally really love  RM's work but this, despite great potential really doesn't work. I hope some of these glaring holes are pasted over via better explanation in the future.

: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: NapalmKev 30 November, 2018, 10:22:14 AM
Regarding 'The Small House' - First off, I enjoyed it. Secondly, when the writing and art is this good I can forgive certain plot elements. If I may use the Star Wars saga as an example of what I'm on about...

The original trilogy is glorious despite some hammy dialogue. The prequel trilogy is a bit iffy but contains the Whizz-Bangs and excellent character design from the original trilogy, which is why I don't hate the prequels. Then we have the post trilogy which tries totally subverting what came before and monumentally Fuck's it right up and cannot be forgiven.

To be honest I'm not sure what my point is other than I enjoyed the Small House.

Elsewhere in the Prog we have 10 pages of Sinister Dexter, and yes, I did think it too many!

Cheers
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Keef Monkey 30 November, 2018, 12:18:44 PM
Loved the prog this week, and The Small House is the first prog story in years that I'm going to sit down and read again in a oner without waiting for it to be collected. Used to do that with everything as standard but never find the time these days! I think this story demands it.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Tiplodocus 30 November, 2018, 02:04:08 PM

This final part makes it explicit that it is just Dredd's hunch that Smiley covered up the Sovs plans - Smiley isnt that clever  is he?  A quick "well I told Griffin, but no one was interested / could do anything" and Dredd looks like a right sap.

Exactly -plot hole #22 .

I don't know about that. A character not doing something I had thought of isn't a plot hole. It's a character not doing something I had thought of.

My wife thinks of things I don't all the time. It doesn't mean my marriage is full of plot holes.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Jim_Campbell 30 November, 2018, 02:07:09 PM
My wife thinks of things I don't all the time. It doesn't mean my marriage is full of plot holes.

NARRATOR: Shortly afterwards, he was surprised to receive divorce papers citing "irreparable strains on willing suspension of disbelief" as the primary cause of the marriage breakdown.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Steve Green 30 November, 2018, 02:49:03 PM
Surprised at the lack o love here for this excellent Dredd, yes a wee 'Good to go Maitland' comms between Maitland and Gerhart would have plug that wee plot hole,  Dredd is a blunt instrument, but an experienced one. hence the planning.
layers, like an onion, donkey.

I'm toying  the idea that Smiley allowed Cal to prosper (Smiley won't have been in the sleep machines) so Cal would reduce the population and build the West Wall, to keep all that out there...
layers, like an onion, donkey.

As for the Hershey/Dredd thing, again loving how the job is driving them apart, you can feel Hershey anger at old Stoney Pus and his binary view.
layers, like an onion, donkey.

Great stuff, more Tharg baby more!

How old is Smiley supposed to be? 60 tops?

Which would make him barely out of the academy around Cal's time.

Maybe he goes to the same place as Cass.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Richard 01 December, 2018, 10:05:50 AM
We don't know why Dupre was killed. Maybe she became radicalised off-screen and Chief Judge Volt decided to have her pre-emptively killed before she caused any more trouble. That's not so big a leap: even Dredd himself effectively murdered the terrorists at the end of America even though they were surrendering.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Frank 01 December, 2018, 11:24:38 AM
We don't know why Dupre was killed. Maybe she became radicalised off-screen and Chief Judge Volt decided to have her pre-emptively killed ...

Anything's possible in the exciting world of fan fiction, but that didn't appear to be the character's direction of travel (https://i.imgur.com/Xj6fgwc.jpg).

From leader of the Munce Spring (https://i.imgur.com/hBm5PrH.jpg) to an off-page Fridging by my least favourite Dredd villain since Captain Strange (https://i.imgur.com/tYQRVfP.jpg). Maybe Vanilla Batcave (https://i.imgur.com/jglWegy.jpg) will make a comeback.


Credits: Twilight's Last Gleaming, by Ennis & Burns (756), Revolution, by Wagner, Grant & Higgins (531), The Highwaymen, by TB Grover & Dillon (359), and the subtely named Politics, by Grant & Anderson (656), respectively.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: sheridan 01 December, 2018, 01:25:25 PM
All horses are magic, as is friendship.

Did My Little Pony teach you NOTHING?!

Official licenced comic character from the other year!

(https://fsmedia.imgix.net/ba/cd/83/53/f0f3/4f7a/842f/265ca15625ae/mlp-deviations-subcoverjpg.jpeg)
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Fungus 01 December, 2018, 01:44:56 PM
Loved the prog this week, and The Small House is the first prog story in years that I'm going to sit down and read again in a oner without waiting for it to be collected. Used to do that with everything as standard but never find the time these days! I think this story demands it.

Likewise. And I never re-read. Maybe the Act of Grud prequel mentioned earlier too...

So many highlights. The ‘culling the city’ comment, Frank and his dirtiness, Dredd’s quotable moments. And Flint’s gritty art, most glorious at the story’s beginning. As for plot-holes, pointing these out in a Dredd story is something I am finding odd, I must admit  :-\  A compulsion I find easy to resist  :)

Otherwise, finding the prog enjoyable but it’s a split decision. Dredd & Brink are tremendous, but the others are not engaging me at all. Kinda hope the aftermath in Dredd keeps up this quality for that reason.

: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: IndigoPrime 01 December, 2018, 01:53:15 PM
"the others are not engaging me at all"

But… but… KINGDOM.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: sheridan 01 December, 2018, 01:56:06 PM
But to get there we have Dirty Frank needing to be rescued by Senstive Klegg for reasons, for Dredd to pussyfoot around asking Hershey, but having to ask her anyway and that working out just fine (was it a romantic comedy?)


Dredd and Hershey in a romantic comedy?  Never!


(http://img2.bdbphotos.com/images/orig/l/3/l3epn8yvb3lxe3nl.jpg?djet1p5k)


What happens to the one ninja judge they take alive?  Do they kill him? release him? does he escape when Frank kills Sam?  who cares, he has served his "story purpose", so we can forget about him now. All those ninja Judges killed, and nothing to show for it.


That's what we thought when Dredd , but a year or so later we got  showing up.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: sheridan 01 December, 2018, 01:57:31 PM
I wish SMF would obey spoiler tags properly!

Try again:

That's what we thought when Dredd blew up the Judda hideout, but a year or so later we got  Kraken showing up.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: The Sherman Kid 01 December, 2018, 08:15:56 PM
I wish SMF would obey spoiler tags properly!

Try again:

That's what we thought when Dredd blew up the Judda hideout, but a year or so later we got  Kraken showing up.

it did actually say in the original story that a few Judda who attacked the Grand Hall were captured....just saying.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: TordelBack 04 December, 2018, 03:11:41 PM
Been avoiding Small House discussion on the "if you've nothing nice to say..." principle, but then I realised this is the internet, and it only exists in opposition to that maxim.

I enjoyed the story. The art was splendid throughout. The storytelling was brisk and dense at the same time, tension was maintained, and there were more than a few good lines and shocks.  Dirty Frank was in it (and has been revived by Hershey as her own personal undercover asset, or I'll eat my helmet). Invisible Ninja Judges appear to have been banished from the strip.  The little oddities (Were their ninja-specs all nicked or not? Is that all the 'Enceladus energy' amounted to? How can Hershey tolerate Dredd's very public insubordination?) don't really bother me. 

But.  The plot itself was very disappointing. Smiley's "cull" rationale, with Dredd as Top Trump stopping it going too far,  makes absolutely no sense: the Block Mania contaminant (which affected Dredd and nearly removed him from the game), the destruction of the Atlantic Wall and nuclear strikes (which knocked-out Dredd's H-Wagon, something Joe had no influence on preventing, and again very nearly took him out), and the Apocalypse Warp combined were effectively unstoppable. The desired "cull" was achieved when the southern sectors were nuked, before the Warp was even activated. A secret mission to counter or destroy that technology followed by a war would have served his purposes better.

The idea that there was a 90% chance of victory because of Dredd is just nonsense: he could have died/been lost at any time through no fault of his own, and on four occasions during the war very nearly was. Smiley appears to be viewing Dredd as if he was reading the strip itself, and acting as if he was Wagner and Grant looking for a handy way to trim the city back to a believable size. No-one so insane as to believe that should have been able to credibly manage 40 years of covert activity. 

It reduces Smiley to just another Cal-level loon, instead of a machievellian mastermind, and I find that shift pretty boring.  I accept that this might all be clever meta-commentary, but I don't have to like it.

One last genuine niggle: Maitland's speech about Sam is bizarre. "A good soul". Really. Is she Judge Corey now?

Rest of Prog very good.  Missing Infestinauts already.
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Leigh S 04 December, 2018, 10:55:28 PM
Yeah it is such a bizarre claim from Smiley that I can only take it as a poor attempt to flatter Dredd, rather than any real calculation on his part - as you say, you could allow the first strike to wipe out half the city, but then have a real plan to fight back with the info you had that ran into a bit more detail than just "let Dredd sort it"
: Re: Prog 2109 - Shark-Infested Waters
: Mikey 05 February, 2019, 01:06:34 PM
Necro post! It's been a while - how's everyone keeping? I'm fine, thanks.

I've been chomping through coming up to about a year's worth of progs so just finished The Small House last night. I thought it was brilliant and graced with what is possibly my favourite Flint art so far, and that's saying something. That's inextricably linked to the magnificent colouring by Blythe.

It was tense and cracked along at a great pace managing to keep me guessing until the last episode. I could say I'm slightly disappointed it ended so soon, but as there's more where that came from this is but a step on the journey. Adding it to the whole shebang starting with Low Life it's undoubtably a crucial chapter, but where will it all end? I mean that in a good way, can't wait to find out!

Elsewhere, Brink continues to be fabulous, so much so that I'll be buying the trades. The rest of the prog wasn't too shabby either, but just happend to pale in comparison to the big two.