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General Chat => Film & TV => : radiator 26 April, 2019, 04:50:56 PM

: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: radiator 26 April, 2019, 04:50:56 PM
What did we all think?

I actually had a really good time, probably enjoyed it more so than Infinity War. Went to see it at my favourite cinema here in Portland opening night and had to queue (queueing for the cinema! in 2019!). It was a packed house and the atmosphere was amazing and really added to the experience - whooping, cheering, applause, people audibly crying. When Cap picked up Mjolnir for the first time, the place went absolutely nuts - it was like being at a sporting event.

For me the movie clicked when it became clear that they were going for a Back to the Future Part II setup - with past-Thanos taking the role of future-Biff.

Really really fun movie packed full of surprises and a satisfying end for the original Avengers lineup (so long as you go with the flow and don't try to think about the logic of the time travel plot that is), though I think Black Widow got a bit short-changed.

Genuinely baffled as to what on Earth they're going to do next, or how they're going to top it in terms of spectacle - the end battle makes the airport fight scene from Civil War look like a scrap in a pub carpark.

The one misstep was Captain Marvel's hairstyle - which looked like a bad wig, and exactly like Leslie Knope in that episode of Parks and Rec. Captain Marvel in general felt almost entirely redundant, and the stinger from Infinity War kind of seems like a red herring in retrospect.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Pyroxian 26 April, 2019, 05:53:51 PM
I enjoyed it, but had a few niggles.

Not sure why Stark had to die - esp. as they had 6 infinity gems that they could've used to resurrect him. Although I guess if they'd done that, they would have then had to bring back Vision (But he's coming back in a TV series I think - unless the TV show names were red herrings...). Still, they can still bring back Stark in the same way as they did in the comics, so he may not be dead...

Cap picking up Mjolnir was awesome - esp. as it had been set-up way back in Age of Ultron...

The time travel stuff didn't wrap up that neatly... Stark should've just wiped the bad guy's memories and sent them all back in time in order to preserve the timeline. I did wonder if they were going to do the whole "You can reset the timeline, but you will have to lose your daughter" thing, but glad they didn't. I liked what they did with Cap though.

Loved the fact that they dealt with Thanos in the first 10 minutes and then forwarded it on 5 years.

Liked CMs new 'do - more like how she is in the comics. I can see why they didn't bring her in until the end though as she is just way too powerful.

As to what next? Eternals is their next big one, so maybe Celestials? Although they've got the FF back, so Galactus is now a possibility as well... Kinda hoping they bring in the Fantastic Four in the same way as they introduced The Sentry in the comics, as that would be a great way of just dumping them into the MCU as a fully-fledged team.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: radiator 26 April, 2019, 06:06:33 PM
Said it before, but Fantastic Four as a 1960s period movie just has to happen. I would bet money on that happening.

I honestly think the only way they can go now is back to smaller scale films again. I'd love to see what they can do with X Men - a series in desperate need of a refresh.

Also on Endgame - for a three hour long film, I was surprised at how short it felt. Didn't drag or outstay its welcome for me at all.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: radiator 26 April, 2019, 06:20:05 PM
Line of the film for me went to Rocket:

"I lost my whole family - Quill, Groot, Drax, Gamora.... the chick with the antennae".
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 26 April, 2019, 06:55:23 PM
So yeah, spectacular, and way more of a genuine conclusion than I expected.  I am going to piss 50% of you off by including spoiler tags for the more amazing stuff, you'll just have to find a way of undoing my evil scheme.

Yeah, I knew Cap would finally get that dance, and I knew Tony would die saving the world at last (although the 'how' of that one was pretty great), but there was a lot of deft wrapping-up I really didn't expect.

Downers: Surprisingly, seeing as I loved her movie, I though the leaden almost-an-afterthought handling of Captain Marvel was bordering on disastrous, as was the Charge of the XX Brigade (although my daughter utterly loved it, so job jobbed there, I suppose). While the concept was a brave choice, Professor Hulk was way too much like Shrek, and I echo Valkyrie in preferring either of the other two guys: it seemed a pity that the Hulk's cowardice last time wasn't really explained, beyond the obvious.  I found it hard to believe that Nick Fury didn't get a single line, and what the hell happened between Disney and Natalie Portman to leave things like that!

I thought it a rather heavy coincidence that, judging from the Far From Home trailer, ALL of Peter Parker's key friends/frenemies were Snapped too.

I also didn't really understand what was going on with the resurrection of the Asgardians - where was that host of warriors during the evacuation of Asgard?  And even if they were all somehow hiding behind Our Karl in Ragnarok how did they all survive the attack on Korg's starship long enough to get Snapped? Was the Unsnapping backdated to include others that Thanos had killed by non-Snappy means? (It occurs to me that the Asgardian Ark was actually destroyed with the characteristic purple energies of the Power Stone, maybe that's what the fix included?).

And I'd have liked Drax to be the one to take out Thanos. But you can't have it all.

Anyway, in a film this enormous, these are small things: the BIG downer for me was Black Widow's death.  Yes it was a great, great scene, yes I understand there may be a way out of it in line with putative future movies (the Soul Stone was destroyed, after all), but it still felt wrong.  This wasn't a mistake, it was a well-framed decision, but it hit me harder than losing those who had, I felt, completed their stories.

What I loved/was amazed by:

The correct version of time-travel, where everything matters but nothing changes.  I'd have hated to see the world's experience of the Snap undone.

LOKI ESCAPED!  And not just any Loki, the un-neutered version!  This is nothing but good news: the redeemed one gets a noble death, the still-villainous one gets to scheme again!

Thor and Tony getting a second chance to see their loved ones, and maybe put things right.

The clever fixing of Gamorra's death - it retains the weight of its tragedy, but the character lives to learn to dance again.
 
New Asgard and The God of Lebowski.  All just perfect, and I was truly amazed that Thor wasn't re-made into his Pirate-Angel form when he got Mjolnir back.  That's commitment, and if not an horrific failure on the part of Hemsworth's agent, a real testament to the professionalism of the actor: almost everyone else gets a noble death, he gets a fatsuit, comedy beard and a cardi.

The arrival of Absolutely Everybody. Soooo Comicbook Crossover Event.

Steve and Mjolnir.

Steve in the lift, again.

Centennial Steve.

Steve versus Thanos.

Steve versus Steve.

The idea of Steve subsequently sneaking back with the Scepter into Stark Tower where there already two other Steves...

Oh look, I like Captain America.  Sue me.

But mainly, the fact that it really did feel like the end of a 22-part story.  Bravo.  Bravo.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: radiator 26 April, 2019, 07:30:21 PM
as was the Charge of the XX Brigade

I'm in two minds - it bordered on cringe, but also, hey why the hell not?

It will also doubtless enrage the usual sexist loons, so that's all good as far as I'm concerned.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 26 April, 2019, 07:34:03 PM
Fair point!

Something else unexpected, and amazing: Bruce and the Ancient One. That was very cool.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: JOE SOAP 27 April, 2019, 12:55:53 AM
Steve and Mjolnir.

Steve in the lift, again.

Centennial Steve.

Steve versus Thanos.

Steve versus Steve.

The idea of Steve subsequently sneaking back with the Scepter into Stark Tower where there already two other Steves...

Oh look, I like Captain America.  Sue me.

Steve and dat ass.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: The Enigmatic Dr X 27 April, 2019, 03:35:51 PM
My lad asks:

If Thanos can create a universe, then instead of killing 50% of everyone, why not double the amount of resources?
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: The Monarch 27 April, 2019, 03:56:59 PM
wasn't it established in infinity war that thanos let half the people in the ship go and murdered the other half or am i misremembering it
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: radiator 27 April, 2019, 07:34:03 PM
My lad asks:

If Thanos can create a universe, then instead of killing 50% of everyone, why not double the amount of resources?

More to the point; is there actually a shortage of resources in the universe in the first place? Is that a thing anyone even believes?
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 27 April, 2019, 11:42:18 PM
My lad asks:

If Thanos can create a universe, then instead of killing 50% of everyone, why not double the amount of resources?

More to the point; is there actually a shortage of resources in the universe in the first place? Is that a thing anyone even believes?

They don't call him the Mad Titan for nowt.  He's a nutjob, convinced of his own rightness: even if his Malthusverse was a reality, how long would it take (for example) post-Snap Earth, pop. 3.8 billion, to get back to pre-Snap 7.7 billion?  Assuming the same growth patterns as before (big assumption, mind), just 50 short years.  And Thanos has destroyed the stones, who's going to reset the clock this time?   The film even sort-of addresses this, when Thanos 2.0 realises his 50% isn't going to work, and he's just going to have to wipe the slate totally clean. 

It's not a rational response to a real problem, any more than Pol Pot's Year Zero was, it's the dream of a self-important madman.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 27 April, 2019, 11:49:28 PM
wasn't it established in infinity war that thanos let half the people in the ship go and murdered the other half or am i misremembering it

It wasn't established directly, but we assumed it to be the case, given his M.O: but the ark-ship was destroyed prior to the Snap, when Thanos still only had the Power Stone: hence I'm wondering how far back Tony's fix extended. 

TBH I'm more interested in where all these shiny Asgardian Warriors were when Skurge was holding the Rainbow Bridge virtually solo... 

Oh, and wouldn't it have been nice to see Sif* as well as Valkyrie?  Seeing as romantic tension was off the table this time, I'd have liked to know that at least one of Thor's besties had survived .



*Unless I missed her in a crowd scene.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Tiplodocus 28 April, 2019, 12:13:31 AM
I quite enjoyed that but I didn't get any feels except for the Cap and Peggy scenes and only then ever so slightly.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Andy Lambert 28 April, 2019, 01:42:29 PM
There was something in my eye quite a few times, not just in the obvious places but also during the epic final battle, when everyone showed up and asses were kicked. I was so swept along with it, and - okay, I'm probably a little over-emotional, but I do sometimes get teary just because something's done really well. This was. So. Damn. Good.

Hell, I cried at Terminator 2, so I stood no chance here...
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: broodblik 28 April, 2019, 02:18:25 PM
Just watched it but for some reason the movie just did not work for me.  It was not bad but it was not great as well.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 28 April, 2019, 02:31:21 PM
Mmm, I sympathise, Broodblik. It was definitely pretty emotional for me when the cavalry finally arrived, and at several other points, and there were a lot of good laughs and wow moments, but I'm not sure the film fully worked as a whole either. Hugely, ridiculously impressive, and very thorough, but perhaps lacking... something?  Maybe I'll find it on a re-watch, as often happens with these over-anticipated finales.  I've certainly enjoyed digesting it!

It might have been fun if they'd inserted a shadowy figure lurking in the backgrounds of the time-travel scenes à la Chonocops, that we would later realise had been Cap.   

Some interesting questions arise in the aftermath:

The Sorcerer Supreme no longer has the Eye of Agamotto at his disposal. How vulnerable is Earth to supernatural assault now?

Now that Steve and Peggy did get together and live happily ever after, does this mean Cap was snogging his niece in Civil War?  And is that why the lovely Emily VanCamp wasn't in this one? 

Where did Steve return Mjolnir to? He had to do it *after* the Dude of Thunder summoned it, but where was it when that happened?  (Goes off to find Dark World DVD...)

If Pym Particles and the Quantum Realm can allow you to move anywhere in space as well as time, complete with miniaturised cargo, why isn't everyone doing at least the less-paradoxy instantaneous-travel part?  Surely Hank isn't the only guy in the universe to come up with this?
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: broodblik 28 April, 2019, 02:59:00 PM
The movie had its moments and fun parts but the most difficult thing is how do you end a story ? We had some great MCU movies the last few years and it was hugely entertaining.  Maybe I expected something more and the biggest question is why was it necessary for the movie to have the big battle at the end (was it because we needed another superhero fight scene ?).  It almost felt that Infinity War never happened. Thanos was killed in the future so they actually did change the timeline. Back to the future is still the best time travelling movie ever.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 28 April, 2019, 04:31:05 PM
You're right about the big battle, it was there 'cos big superhero crossover rumble had to be on the table.

However, Infinity War did still happen - everyone except Thanos 2 & Co did experience it, Heimdall, Vision and everyone who died at Wakanda before the Snap are still dead. In fact Gamora is the only person alive at the end who doesn't remember it. Thanos still found, used and destroyed the stones. Thanos's trip to the future is a closed loop, a consequence of the Avengers 'borrowing' the stones, it doesn't affect what had already occurred. I think that was one of the best things about the movie.

But I'm with you on Back to the Future!
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: broodblik 28 April, 2019, 04:40:33 PM
I get what you saying TorderBack but there is to many illogical gaps in the story. For example when Nebula killed herself, how can she still exists ? Maybe it is impossible to make a movie which the hype is bigger than the end result.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: JOE SOAP 28 April, 2019, 04:54:46 PM
I get what you saying TorderBack but there is to many illogical gaps in the story. For example when Nebula killed herself, how can she still exists ? Maybe it is impossible to make a movie which the hype is bigger than the end result.

It's explained that Time travel, in Endgame, doesn't work linearly. Travelling back and changing the past doesn't change the future that exists for the travellers and their own time/space reality.

Although the idea of two Caps occupying the same time-stream is an interesting dilemma that I'm not sure is resolvable.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: broodblik 28 April, 2019, 05:02:10 PM

It's explained that Time travel, in Endgame, doesn't work linearly. Travelling back and changing the past doesn't change future events that are happening/happened.

Although the idea of two Caps occupying the same time-stream is an interesting dilemma that I'm not sure is resolvable.

So they did exactly what Banner promised the will not do to The Ancient One, they split the timeline.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 28 April, 2019, 06:17:07 PM
Don't think that's the case!  The Ancient One gave the Time Stone to Bruce, and Tony used it to undo the Snap in the future. Then Steve (off-screen) returned to New York and gave the Ancient One back the Time Stone (and Hydra back the Mind Stone). It passed to Dr Strange, and he gave it to Thanos.  Thanos used it, and then destroyed it. This gave the lads the idea to send Bruce back to get the stone from the Ancient One... It's one timeline, it just detours off in a loop before returning. For all we know, Steve always met Steve in Stark Tower, Loki always escaped with the Tesseract (before being recaptured at some point down the line and handed back - conveniently gagged - to Thor).  In fact, as we saw in Endgame Hydra would have had both the Sceptre and the Tesseract without intervention from the future - as it happened, they only ended up with the Sceptre in 'both' versions.

As Bruce explains to Scott et al, once you travel into the past, it becomes your future - your past remains your past. The Thanos that travels from the past to the present is not the Thanos of the Avenger's past: he's their future. (I may have to lie down now).

The one that's harder to square is Steve and Peggy (although I wouldn't have it any other way) - it takes from the emotion of their scenes in Winter Soldier if she had actually had had a life with his older self, but given her mental state at the time, it may well be that she had genuinely forgotten.  Old Steve may have scheduled his visits to avoid the times he knew Young Steve was there.  Presumably there were false names involved.  I've already head-cannoned it that Steve picked up again with Peggy in the 60's or even when he had returned the Tesseract in 1970, rather than right after he went into the ice.  It allows for both of their growth and experiences over a dozen years to be real, rather than him just popping up behind her in the Hydra base and saying "ta-dah!" as if nothing had happened. 

BTW, I think the thing that feels a bit odd about the final battle is that it looks more like a DC film in terms of aesthetic...

: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 28 April, 2019, 06:28:57 PM
Although the idea of two Caps occupying the same time-stream is an interesting dilemma that I'm not sure is resolvable.

Three Caps. I didn't think it too many.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: JOE SOAP 28 April, 2019, 06:38:30 PM
BTW, I think the thing that feels a bit odd about the final battle is that it looks more like a DC film in terms of aesthetic...

Only it's fun, has a villain and earns its blasted earth apocalypse.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 28 April, 2019, 06:47:14 PM
Oh no arguments there!  But there are a lot of CGI nasties fighting in a dark, burning wasteland, so it does look a bit like the average scene from a DCU film... Compare it to the broad daylight of the CW Airport fight and the IW Wakanda battle, or even the inventive shifting landscape of the moonsteroids raining down on Titan.  It's a much more typical 'everything's on fire, everyone's hitting things' setting, although on a really huge scale, and with nice little component sequences (Spidey's journey across the battlefield with the gauntlet, for example).
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: broodblik 28 April, 2019, 07:21:47 PM
I agree the final battle felt more like out of the DC world but I believe it was done for the mood of the movie. The whole first two hours is a dark disillusion world without hope.

I still do not like the logic of the time travel component and how everything worked out.

My next question is how do the Marvel-verse go from here ?
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: JOE SOAP 28 April, 2019, 07:23:21 PM
Oh no arguments there!  But there are a lot of CGI nasties fighting in a dark, burning wasteland, so it does look a bit like the average scene from a DCU film... Compare it to the broad daylight of the CW Airport fight and the IW Wakanda battle, or even the inventive shifting landscape of the moonsteroids raining down on Titan.  It's a much more typical 'everything's on fire, everyone's hitting things' setting, although on a really huge scale, and with nice little component sequences (Spidey's journey across the battlefield with the gauntlet, for example).

Aye; it's ALL the battles.

As much as the whole film recaps MCU history I suppose they had to make the re-do of Infinity War's ending the negative of the bright plains of Wakanda. Not just to make it look different but feel the greater reckoning for all the primary characters. As you say, it's the the small stuff that makes it, like Steve with the Hammer (probably the loudest genuine gasp from an audience I've ever heard in a cinema) and the slow push-in on Strange (who's never been used better) giving Stark 'the finger', that ties-in so well with his sacrifice for Stark on Titan after losing to Thanos the first time.

It's the huge cumulation of moments, replays and pay-offs that blows any misgivings about hanging the story on time shenanigans into insignificance.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 28 April, 2019, 07:48:20 PM
It's quite the balancing act - just a few nods to the preceding films and it would look like a knowing greatest-hits compilation, but the sheer number and importance (and quality, and diversity) of the call-backs made it into something else again. 

For me the single best moment in the movie was 'Hail Hydra!'.  I'm quite happy to say that Winter Soldier is my top MCU film, and this whole scene, topped with a moment of pure genius, was a great reprise, and maybe just a leeetle jibe at a certain outraged subset of comics fandom. 

I was struck by the faith that the film placed in its audience - having key moments depend on remembering the end-credits scene of Ant-man and The Wasp, leaving the introduction of Captain Marvel to the team to the end-credits of that movie (which isn't even available outside of a cinema yet), what happens to Frygga in much-maligned The Dark World, or indeed who the hell Robert Redford was playing... It's a kind of game that can go badly wrong (see the Star Wars prequels, or indeed the Sequels), but here it's the whole point of the film: you've invested your 50+ hours and this is the payoff.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Buttonman 28 April, 2019, 11:04:57 PM
Although the idea of two Caps occupying the same time-stream is an interesting dilemma that I'm not sure is resolvable.

Three Caps. I didn't think it too many.

I'm seeing double here - SIX Captain Americas?!
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 29 April, 2019, 02:08:54 AM
Keep 'em coming. You can never have enough of America's ass.

Here's my current musing: Thanos appears to have a much bigger invasion force in Endgame than he does in Infinity War because he hasn't expended many of them in his gathering of the stones: he lost Ronan's Dark Aster troops at Xandar, and then retook the Power Stone from the Nova Corps, which can't have been easy; he fought all the surviving AsgardIans to get the Space Stone; he appears to have destroyed much of Knowhere getting the Reality Stone; his Black Order got a kicking seeking the Mind and Time stones on Earth, even prior to Wakanda. The stoneless Thanos is just more militarily resource-rich than his later self.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: JOE SOAP 29 April, 2019, 02:29:41 AM
I don't buy into the idea going around that because this is pre-snap Thanos he's diminished as a character. He still knows everything that happened with Stark and the lads through Nebula's memories and adult Thanos from just before this period is still Thanos – the Titan that sees every other race as beneath him and still believes we should all go halvsies. He's really worse since he aims to go back to year zero.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Mattofthespurs 29 April, 2019, 08:28:11 AM
Wow!

Saw it yesterday and there is just so much to unpack and to be honest I don't think I'll be able to do it until I've seen it a few more times.

The explanation of time travel by Bruce was one such instance where I spent a couple of minutes mulling it over in the cinema only to realise I'd missed something important when I was thinking about it.

Never mind. I was fairly emotional a few times too. I think the grandeur of the film plus it being the culmination of ten years of watching these movies was a bit too much for me at times but in a good way.

So many funny lines too. I must have laughed out loud at least 10 times.

Watching it in a packed cinema was an odd experience. For the first 2 hours it was like watching it in Picadilly station with a constant stream of people going to the loo and getting snacks but the final hour hardly anyone moved and during Tony's death scene you could have heard a pin drop. Still, I loved that resolution of Tony's arc. Going from a rich, self centered prick to the exact opposite was a fitting end. As was Cap's.

More than all that though the way it tied in the previous 21 movies really gave the back catalogue some gravitas and was brilliantly executed.

We all loved it in our household. Got home about 6.30 and had dinner and myself, my wife and my 15 year old Son spent the evening digesting and discussing it.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 29 April, 2019, 08:51:19 AM
I don't buy into the idea going around that because this is pre-snap Thanos he's diminished as a character

Agreed. He knows how it all ends, with him resigned and beheaded in a hut, and all his 'achievements' at genuine risk once he's gone.  If anything the 2014 Thanos is a richer character than the 2018 version, he gets to see the outcome of his life's work, and think again. It just seems that he's thinner because, unlike Infinity War, this isn't his movie: it's the Avengers's. He rightly doesn't get the same space on the screen.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Keef Monkey 29 April, 2019, 10:30:01 AM
(hopefully with this being the spoiler thread it's a given that this will all be massive spoilers so won't need tagged)

I loved it, and was really taken by surprise by how emotionally invested I was in the whole thing. I mean, I've watched every film and enjoyed them all (loved some and merely liked others but they've all been fun), but for some reason going into this I really didn't expect it to hit me the way it did.

There were plenty of moments that had huge (and quite unexpected) emotional weight for me - I got pretty sniffly at Stark's sacrifice and welled up when he hugged Spidey - but the moment that actually made me cry was when everyone appeared for the final battle and Cap gave his 'Avengers...assemble' line. It probably wasn't the most unexpected scene in the world but seeing that and hearing that line it hit me so damn hard just how cool a cinematic thing this whole ride has been, and I was completely taken by surprise by how much weight there was in that moment for me. Had no idea I was so invested in the whole thing to be honest, it really snuck up on me! Goosebumps just thinking about it now.

It's genuinely an incredible accomplishment to have run all these threads and characters through so many movies over so many years and then to have it all come together in a finale as confident and great as Endgame blew my mind a fair bit.

Had very few quibbles with it, in fact I think my only one was that I spent probably a couple of hours of it wondering where Captain Marvel was and if I'd missed some explanation for her not being involved until she conveniently appeared in the final battle. I vaguely recall during the hologram conference call her saying she was heading off to do something but I mustn't have registered what that was. Was she going to bring in more reinforcements (the goody ships that joined the fight maybe)? I'm sure it is just me missing something but it felt really strange to have her set up as such a great character and then have her missing for so much of it. I loved her new hair, she looked very cool.

As others mentioned, the moment when every female character appears to back her up did feel a bit forced and cheesy to me, BUT it was also incredibly badass and cool enough to see them all come together that I was glad it happened. Plus although I did a partial eye roll at how unlikely and slightly silly it is that all those characters would converge on the same spot of the massive battlefield at the same time, I quickly thought about the small portion of the fanbase who will be livid about it and was immediately okay with its inclusion. Yes it felt a bit obvious and forced, but as a clear statement about just how little those particular toxic fans' rantings actually mattered to the film-makers I thought it was brilliant.

The length didn't bother me (I somehow managed to get by on a single quick loo break!) and we were talking on the walk home about how in years to come Infinity War/Endgame will become one of those things we probably bring out on the occasional rainy Sunday when blankets and an epic film are all you want.

I've seen a few people saying that seeing it in a busy screening really added to the experience, I wish it had in mine - the constantly rustling bags, phones, the chorus of watch alarms at the top of every hour, the really young kid in front of me who got restless and agitated early on (not her fault, definitely got the impression the cinema trip was for the parents and the older kid and she'd just been dragged along!)...none of that spoiled the experience as such but it definitely didn't add anything at all. If the movie wasn't likely to be spoiled for me I would have preferred to wait a couple of weeks until things quietened down, but that's the compromise you make to see a film like this on opening weekend so I knew what I was getting into and was fine with that!

That was a lot of ramblings, short version is I loved the film, and on a level that I didn't expect and in ways that I think will make rewatching all the movies again (which I'm currently very tempted to do) a very rich and rewarding experience.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Bolt-01 29 April, 2019, 03:35:04 PM
Thoroughly enjoyed the film, but there is just one - massive - error in my opinion.

When Cap takes the stones and Mjolnir back, according to the rules of time travel set out in the film it is to secure the events of that timeline and to reduce the variance in timelines that the Ancient One warned Hulk about.

However, once Cap decided he was going to hang around and stay with Peggy, he effectively set up his own timeline where he lived a very different life. Presumably he sorted Hydra out in the past and also got Bucky back from Russia, which would have further distanced his timeline from the 'core'. Or maybe he didn't. Maybe he just hung out with Peggy. Either way - he did not want to resume his role in the Avengers.

So, when Hulk et al fail to bring him back, Cap is found sitting on a bench. Was he sat there all along, just minding his business and watching the birds? That is the implication to me. Peggy probably still died during the events of Civil War so Cap has been on his own for several years.

The problem as I see it is that Cap should still have reappeared on the platform - as old man Cap. He would have used the 'Stark/Pym-tech' wrist control to home in on the 'core' timeline and he could have come from a world where he got to live as normal a life as he liked.

Whereas what we get is a 'who the fanzine' head scratch. As presumably the call from the time platform is still valid, and waiting for the signal from Caps wristband to bring him home.

Oh, and if Cap did go back to live with Peggy in the 'core' timeline - that would mean that in 2012 there were 4 Caps kicking around. The one living through it after being in the ice, the one going back for the tesseract, the one taking the tesseract back and the one making sure Peggy was out of town for the day.

Of course - I could be interpreting things wrong...
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Tiplodocus 29 April, 2019, 03:43:50 PM
Something that made me laugh was that they took the time to make corporate branded timetravel suits.

Of course, once you have time machines, you can take your time over things.

I still don't get my lack of feels. Is it me? Or the film?

Return of the King was on telly the other night. I stopped to watch it for the fiftieth time. And still choke up at the charge of the rohirrim , Sam picking Frodo up and "You kneel for nobody". And that was after only 9 hours of film to make me care. Heck, even Boromir in Fellowship got to me after 3 hours. And Deadpool 2.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Mattofthespurs 29 April, 2019, 05:27:42 PM

Of course - I could be interpreting things wrong...

Or just thinking about it too much.

Knowing the writers I'm assuming they have looked into this but...It's a movie. Don't let these things take anything away from the spectacle.

I'm sure there will be millions of words written about this, and Nebula etc, etc but it's like words. They are all made up anyway.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Mattofthespurs 29 April, 2019, 05:29:30 PM
Something that made me laugh was that they took the time to make corporate branded timetravel suits.

Of course, once you have time machines, you can take your time over things.

I still don't get my lack of feels. Is it me? Or the film?

Return of the King was on telly the other night. I stopped to watch it for the fiftieth time. And still choke up at the charge of the rohirrim , Sam picking Frodo up and "You kneel for nobody". And that was after only 9 hours of film to make me care. Heck, even Boromir in Fellowship got to me after 3 hours. And Deadpool 2.

Where as the whole Lord of the Rings stuff bored me to tears. I have read the books at least 3 times each but it has no emotional stuff for me. Games of Thrones doesn't either (but Breaking Bad, The Sopranos, and the MCU do)

Different strokes for different folks and all that.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 29 April, 2019, 05:49:17 PM
The time-travel suits were just nanotech implementations of the AntMan suit, so I'm sure adding a bit of branding wasn't much of a stretch. Like Tony says in Age of Ultron, "I just pay for everything, design everything, and make everyone look cooler". He can't help himself. A bit of team re-building can't hurt.

I believe Steve did go back to Peggy in the core timeline, hence his presence on the bench, but like I was saying upthread, maybe 15 years on from the crash of the Valkyrie. And yep, Bolt is right, that places 4 Steves in 2012.

Today's reflection: I feel so sorry for Scott - he tried his best to stay out of jail so he didn't miss Cassie's childhood, even turning his house arrest into a cardboard play centre, and then he missed 5 years of it after all.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Mattofthespurs 29 April, 2019, 06:42:58 PM
The time-travel suits were just nanotech implementations of the AntMan suit, so I'm sure adding a bit of branding wasn't much of a stretch. Like Tony says in Age of Ultron, "I just pay for everything, design everything, and make everyone look cooler". He can't help himself. A bit of team re-building can't hurt.

I believe Steve did go back to Peggy in the core timeline, hence his presence on the bench, but like I was saying upthread, maybe 15 years on from the crash of the Valkyrie. And yep, Bolt is right, that places 4 Steves in 2012.

Today's reflection: I feel so sorry for Scott - he tried his best to stay out of jail so he didn't miss Cassie's childhood, even turning his house arrest into a cardboard play centre, and then he missed 5 years of it after all.

And for me that's what this whole series has been about. Sacrifices. We all do it everyday.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Link Prime 29 April, 2019, 08:42:03 PM
Dissapointing.

< Explodes into cloud of dust >
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: blackmocco 30 April, 2019, 12:06:35 AM
Thoroughly enjoyed the film, but there is just one - massive - error in my opinion.

When Cap takes the stones and Mjolnir back, according to the rules of time travel set out in the film it is to secure the events of that timeline and to reduce the variance in timelines that the Ancient One warned Hulk about.

However, once Cap decided he was going to hang around and stay with Peggy, he effectively set up his own timeline where he lived a very different life. Presumably he sorted Hydra out in the past and also got Bucky back from Russia, which would have further distanced his timeline from the 'core'. Or maybe he didn't. Maybe he just hung out with Peggy. Either way - he did not want to resume his role in the Avengers.

So, when Hulk et al fail to bring him back, Cap is found sitting on a bench. Was he sat there all along, just minding his business and watching the birds? That is the implication to me. Peggy probably still died during the events of Civil War so Cap has been on his own for several years.

The problem as I see it is that Cap should still have reappeared on the platform - as old man Cap. He would have used the 'Stark/Pym-tech' wrist control to home in on the 'core' timeline and he could have come from a world where he got to live as normal a life as he liked.

Whereas what we get is a 'who the fanzine' head scratch. As presumably the call from the time platform is still valid, and waiting for the signal from Caps wristband to bring him home.

Oh, and if Cap did go back to live with Peggy in the 'core' timeline - that would mean that in 2012 there were 4 Caps kicking around. The one living through it after being in the ice, the one going back for the tesseract, the one taking the tesseract back and the one making sure Peggy was out of town for the day.

Of course - I could be interpreting things wrong...

I'm sure I'm going to regret trying to wrap my head around this but my understanding of it was that Cap went back in time to restore the stones and stayed with Peggy but then just lived out the rest of his natural life under the radar, leaving another version of himself to live out the heroics. We don't really know if that's actually the case, the movie doesn't show us, but I'd assumed he didn't get involved in trying to change any of the events as we've seen them. He knows already how it'll all play out so he leaves it to fall as it will, himself living a quiet civilian life. Yep, in 2012, there would have indeed at one point been 4 Caps walking around. Him sitting at the bench as an old man was just him showing up at the time he knew the others would be there.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Sinx 30 April, 2019, 11:49:05 AM
I loved it. I thought the Russo Brothers did an awesome job wrapping such a huge sprawling mass of storylines from over twenty films. I know there are probably a number of plot holes all over the place but I think it's better to just enjoy the experience - there's no need to switch off brain but perhaps put it into low battery mode for a bit.
At first I thought they went too far with the comedy angle on dismantling Thor but, as someone else reviewing the film said, actually of all the characters he is the one probably portraying accurately the trauma of losing his entire family, his home and making a poor decision that resulted in half the living creatures in the entire universe being wiped out of existence. That would drive anyone into hole to drink themselves into a stupor so maybe later on we'll see a redemption of sorts.
I liked Dr Banner but I thought we would see him struggling holding back the angry Hulk persona especially when he hears Black Widow has died and was kind of disappointed when it didn't happen.
I would have liked to have seen Scarlet Witch go one on one with Thanos for longer. Anyone who knows the comics knows she is by far one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel Universe and I think she's been sort of wasted since Age of Ultron.

I did notice something weird - it seems that every single romantic relationship has been deleted from the MCU. Seems a strange thing to do.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Mister Pops 30 April, 2019, 12:20:35 PM
Today I learned Kevin Feige recruited the Russos after seeing the first paintball episode of Community
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: SIP 30 April, 2019, 01:43:52 PM
As an end (of sorts) to a series of films I thought it did a solid job. That was a lot to juggle and can not have been easy to put together.

As a "film" in and of itself, not so good.
Quite messy in parts and extremely continuity heavy. The less you know about all of the other films, the less you will get out of it. Many of the scenes will have no context for a significant part of the audience. Another big CGI battle at the end straight after infinity war? Unavoidable I guess but getting a little repetitive.

If I was a big marvel fanboy, though nowhere near as good as infinity war I think I would have been satisfied overall as a conclusion. As "fan-pleasing" goes, this went for the jugular.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: radiator 30 April, 2019, 08:39:28 PM
Today I learned Kevin Feige recruited the Russos after seeing the first paintball episode of Community

Yep. They've also been sweetly sneaking every regular character from Community into each MCU movie they've directed - Danny Pudi (Abed) had a cameo in Winter Soldier, Jim Rash (the Dean) was in Civil War(?), and Ken Jeong (Senor Chang) and Yvette Nicole Brown (Shirley) were both in Endgame.

IIRC Alison Brie (Annie) was also heavily rumoured for the Sharon Carter role in Winter Soldier (that eventually went to Emily Vancamp).

As a "film" in and of itself, not so good.
Quite messy in parts and extremely continuity heavy. The less you know about all of the other films, the less you will get out of it.

Hasn't this been the case for almost every Marvel movie since Civil War? I honestly can't really judge them as individual films any more - they are all essentially episodes in an ongoing TV show, and they generally all share the same strengths and weaknesses every time out, to the point where it's hardly worth mentioning any more.

I know there are probably a number of plot holes all over the place but I think it's better to just enjoy the experience

Yeah. Tbh in a film that has time travel and a magical Maguffin that can do literally anything it's a miracle the film is as cohesive as it is.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: JOE SOAP 30 April, 2019, 10:54:37 PM
I believe Steve did go back to Peggy in the core timeline, hence his presence on the bench, but like I was saying upthread, maybe 15 years on from the crash of the Valkyrie. And yep, Bolt is right, that places 4 Steves in 2012.

Steve(s)'s paradoxical time-schmozzling looks like a set-up (or fudge).

In the end, Steve Rogers goes on a solo trip to restore the Infinity Stones from the other time dimensions to the moment they were taken, thereby bringing them back into alignment with the main timeline.

He also takes Thor’s Mjölnir hammer, though not necessarily as his own weapon. That has to be taken back to The Dark World era to set the timelines straight, too.

But then …he doesn’t come back. At least, not as we know him. He finds Peggy Carter and stays with her.

So, has Cap been living in the past this whole time — or did he go and live in another dimension?

The directors say it’s the latter.

“If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality,” Joe explained. “The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away?”

The brothers smile.

“Interesting question, right?” Joe said. “Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.”

There are other questions in this sequence that set up this future story…


https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/30/avengers-endgame-russo-brothers-captain-america/
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: JOE SOAP 30 April, 2019, 11:03:40 PM
As a "film" in and of itself, not so good.
Quite messy in parts and extremely continuity heavy. The less you know about all of the other films, the less you will get out of it.

Hasn't this been the case for almost every Marvel movie since Civil War? I honestly can't really judge them as individual films any more - they are all essentially episodes in an ongoing TV show, and they generally all share the same strengths and weaknesses every time out, to the point where it's hardly worth mentioning any more.

Much more than any of the other films –even Infinity War– the Universe part of MCU is the raison d'etre of Avengers: Endgame (The clue's in the title).

I think most people who are seeing it early are at least familiar with that aspect of the franchise.

: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: radiator 01 May, 2019, 12:31:20 AM
I think the series that stands up the best as individual films in their own right are the Guardians films. I think pretty much anyone could watch and enjoy those completely divorced from the MCU (and that's partially why I think they're the best films in the entire MCU to date).
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: broodblik 01 May, 2019, 05:40:01 AM

In the end, Steve Rogers goes on a solo trip to restore the Infinity Stones from the other time dimensions to the moment they were taken, thereby bringing them back into alignment with the main timeline.

He also takes Thor’s Mjölnir hammer, though not necessarily as his own weapon. That has to be taken back to The Dark World era to set the timelines straight, too.

But then …he doesn’t come back. At least, not as we know him. He finds Peggy Carter and stays with her.

So, has Cap been living in the past this whole time — or did he go and live in another dimension?

The directors say it’s the latter.

“If Cap were to go back into the past and live there, he would create a branched reality,” Joe explained. “The question then becomes, how is he back in this reality to give the shield away?”

The brothers smile.

“Interesting question, right?” Joe said. “Maybe there’s a story there. There’s a lot of layers built into this movie and we spent three years thinking through it, so it’s fun to talk about it and hopefully fill in holes for people so they understand what we’re thinking.”

There are other questions in this sequence that set up this future story…


https://ew.com/movies/2019/04/30/avengers-endgame-russo-brothers-captain-america/

I still feel that for me they have not really tough this trough. For me the biggest reason why I felt the movie was a disappointment was the nilly willy way they handled the time travelling aspect. With everything I have read and people trying to explain the events Infinity War could not have happened and certain other events as well. The timeline was altered in the future when Thanos was defeated. He never found the stones as simple as that
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Bolt-01 01 May, 2019, 08:21:20 AM
IMO:

When the Avengers staged the time heist they set off a branch from the main universe.
The Thanos that travels to the future was pulled there by the Nebula that travelled back with the Avengers.
So - in the branch of the universe where the stones came from Thanos disappears - allowing him to die in the same universe as that in which he was dispatched in the garden. That also explains how Nebula is still able to be alive. She did not kill her past self - only a version of herself from a different universe.

: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 01 May, 2019, 08:30:36 AM
The key point here is that time travel creates paradoxes, always, in every case. That's why it isn't real, and why it's so much fun.

To anyone thinking thar Engame means Thanos never got the stones, or that Nebula killed her past self and so shouldn't exist, I say you're talking about a violation of causality, and that's what time travel is.  The Avengers would never have travelled back in time if the Snap hadn't happened, therefore the Snap happened and has always happened: as Thanos says, he is inevitable. That's why they couldn't just go back and stop it, because then they'd never go back and it could never be undone.

It's a closed loop, a diversion, but it happened. It had to.

: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: JamesC 01 May, 2019, 09:11:36 AM
I didn't enjoy it very much unfortunately.
I'm not bothered about the intricacies of time travel, I just thought the characters weren't very well handled.
Smart Hulk being 'the best of both worlds' takes away everything interesting about the character and Comedy Thor had me rolling my eyes. The comedy wasn't funny generally (the Hulk/stairs joke was lame).
The film was too cluttered with rubbish second stringers. Does anyone care about Sam Wilson, Rhodey or Scarlett 'dull as dishwater' Witch? And I never want to see Iron Gwyneth ever again.
I'd have liked more from Captain Marvel though.
The end of the film eulogising was pretty painfull too. I genuinely think it would have been better if the film ended on the battlefield.

I may well enjoy it more on a second viewing (which is often the case) but my initial feeling is disappointment.

: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: credo 01 May, 2019, 10:52:10 AM
Loved it, loved it, loved it!

It took the MCU (mainly Guardians, Black Panther and Infinity War) to get me into any superhero comics, despite my love of tooth for over 30 years!

Was really glad the time travel thing didn't introduce any Back to the Future type shenanigans. I think the death of past Nebula was almost a deliberate demonstration of that.

But... Captain Marvel was really poorly served. That might have been the usual 'Thor problem' of dealing with a character with such huge powers, but it felt a bit more than that. Her arrival flying through Thanos' ship was one of my highlights of the movie, but it was almost like she should have been a victim of the snap. It was like they didn't get things organised to introduce her early enough to be in Infinity War and have that happen.

Everyone arriving through the portals was awesome.

Eternals for Phase 4 definitely has me hoping for some Celestials. I would love to see them take on Al Ewing's wonderful Ultimates storylines now that Captain Marvel and Black Panther are there (and there's the potential for Monica Rambeau).
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: wedgeski 02 May, 2019, 04:14:55 PM
Finally got to see this last night!

I was *slightly* disappointed. In itself, Endgame is an excellent film, but I felt it was a step down from Infinity War, which was in knock-it-out-of-the-park territory.

Perhaps it was because my own expectations were thwarted. I imagined the solution to the snap was going to lie in the Spirit Stone, which had perhaps in some fashion stored those who had been killed, or shifted them to the quantum realm, or something. The time-travel solution seemed second or third-tier. It gave us some nice moments, but it didn't mine the potential motherlode of the team interacting with their older selves, Back to the Future Part 2-style (aside from Cap's excellent self-pwn). When it was obvious they were pursuing it, I did for a second think that Marvel was going to next-level-genius the whole bloody lot of us by revealing hints from the earlier phases that this was always their plan. Alas, it seems even Feige couldn't see that far ahead, although I'd bet money that the next major arc *will* be planned out all the way to the end.

That said, there was so much to love. I might have had something in my eye when Tony bought it, and I definitely did have something in my eye when Cap got his dance (perfect). Stunning ageing on Chris Evans for those final scenes as well. Demi-Hulk tickled me a lot, and fat grizzly Thor was bloody hilarious. So many good ideas on-screen, and a cast more than happy to go with the flow.

Overall, bloody great cinema, just a bit of a 'meh' from me on the whole time-travel thing.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: SmallBlueThing(Reborn) 02 May, 2019, 04:50:42 PM
Like a few here, while I didn't think it *quite* matched the sheer awesomeness of Infinity War, it was still just about as damn-near perfect as it's possible to be.
I have a few niggles, most of which have been mentioned elsewhere, so it seems churlish to bring them up again... but the one thing that *really* irked was Cap's swearing. What was up with that? That's a major character shift and I didn't feel it fully explained the whys and wherefores.
I've only seen it the once- I will go back- and maybe I missed something (having all six kids plus their various friends/ partners around does lead to attention being occasionally divided).
SBT
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Mattofthespurs 03 May, 2019, 03:12:47 PM
Watched it again today in a deserted cinema and although I loved it the first time I enjoyed even more second time round.

No distracting rustling of popcorn, no end of people walking in front to go to the toilet and because I had already seen it once there were no surprises which meant I could look out for other stuff and just enjoy the nuances of the film.

Going back on Monday :)
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: The Legendary Shark 03 May, 2019, 10:54:20 PM
Saw it today.

Enjoyed it very much.

Looking forward to seeing it again.

: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Tiplodocus 04 May, 2019, 01:42:33 AM
Tiny Tips thought it was awesome.

But asked why didn't Nebula warn Hawkeye and Black Widow about the cost of the Soul Stone? Or volunteer herself?
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Mattofthespurs 04 May, 2019, 08:03:09 AM
Tiny Tips thought it was awesome.

But asked why didn't Nebula warn Hawkeye and Black Widow about the cost of the Soul Stone? Or volunteer herself?

Would not have worked with Nebula though would it. You have to sacrifice something you love? Which is why said, 'all they have to do now is not fall out' when they departed to get the soul stone.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Tiplodocus 04 May, 2019, 12:23:31 PM
Ha he. I thought she meant "not fall out of the ship".

Black Widow is last one to speak before they go into the time machine; a cheeky "See you in 5 minutes".
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Mattofthespurs 04 May, 2019, 04:40:16 PM
It's going to take a long time before this film is completely dissected.

Looking forward to the blu ray and the commentary.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Mattofthespurs 06 May, 2019, 06:34:57 PM
Watched it again for the 3rd time today in a rammed screening.

Still not entirely sure how Nebula (the past version) gets Thannos' ship through the time hole but I may figure it out later (or some kind soul could explain it to me)

New favourite scenes in reverse order.

Cap getting Molijar for the first time.

Cap with his 'Avengers Assemble'.

And my absolute favourite,

Thannos headbutting Captain Marvel and her not budging an inch.

Loved that.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: The Legendary Shark 06 May, 2019, 07:25:23 PM

Loved Cap wielding Mjolnir, harking back to him moving it a fraction of an inch at the party. So many cool moments in this film.

: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Jimmy Baker's Assistant 06 May, 2019, 07:52:29 PM
Loved Endgame, the perfect conclusion to Marvel's amazing run of great movies. Indeed, I'm not actually sure where they go from here. Be very hard to top that.

However, and even bigger question for me is who is the "Steven Denton" whose name appears on the memorials to victims of The Snap? Any relation to the Steven Denton who hangs out here?
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Greg M. 06 May, 2019, 08:03:57 PM
However, and even bigger question for me is who is the "Steven Denton" whose name appears on the memorials to victims of The Snap? Any relation to the Steven Denton who hangs out here?

Whilst it's hardly surprising you noticed that, it stood out to me too, and for a brief, irrational moment, I did wonder if he'd somehow used his links to the world of comics to get his name into the movie. Sanity subsequently prevailed, but it did pull me out of the film for a second!
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Dandontdare 07 May, 2019, 07:59:13 PM
Finally saw this at the weekend after letting the hordes die down a bit (still busy though), and I have to say I was a little disappointed. I still really enjoyed it, there were loads of great moments and it wrapped up the 22-movie series well, but it didn't blow me away in the same way that Avengers Assemble did (still the best of the series IMHO) Maybe we're just spoiled now!  :D

I know I'm asking the impossible, but there was just soooo much stuff they had to cram in, the pacing was all over the place. Any movie can support a couple of emotional one-to-ones in between the action, but the sheer number of characters needing to resolve their own personal arcs meant that there were just too many heartfelt farewells, or emotional reunions, which kept dragging the pace.

I have long ago given up trying to impose any consistent logic to TV and movie time travel shenanigans, so that didn't bother me at all.

Things that irked me or that I would like to have been done differently:
Comedy Hulk (or Shrek as someone accurately pointed out) - no no no, too much. Maybe fun to introduce this iteration briefly, but he really needed to rage-out and lose control at some point. This is a new, cuddlier child-friendly Hulk, and I'm not happy with it.
Cap & Mjiolnir - excellent that he weilded it, but should only have been temporary - I blinked at the "You take the small one" line, and was amazed he was still carrying it when he went on his time journey - I can see Thor grudgingly accepting this in the heat of battle, but he would have reclaimed it pretty sharpish methinks. And also, if Cap was worthy to wield the hammer, doesn't that mean he has the powers of Thor whiloe holding it? I would have liked to see some kind of "Captain Thor" hybrid - but only briefly.
Thor & Hulk. C'mon guys, when one powerhouse character goes to tell another that he's become a fat lazy bum and needs to get back in the battle, they don't have a cozy little chat - they get each other riled up and punch it out for a while first. I was hoping Banner would needle Thor about honour and cowardice, and Thor would in turn enrage banner, so that "real" hulk would return.
Everyone to the party! I know that a climatic 'everybody' battle was on the cards, so I've no complaints about that, but I thought the funeral montage, clearly assembled from lots of individual little groups photoshopped together into one scene, looked really obvious and cheesy. And Nick Fury didn't get to utter a single word? That's just wrong.

Things that made me laugh or feel warm'n'fuzzy (There will be many I've forgotten, but these are the ones that stick after first viewing)
All the callbacks to the previous movies, especially Cap's "Hail Hydra" in the lift
Retro Stan Lee cameo
"Avengers.... Assemble"
Hulk and the Ancient One - nice to see Swinton getting so much screen time
The way they ended Cap's story - nice he got to live his life with Peggy
... and many more, which I'll only remember on my umpteeenth viewing!

Overall, what an amazing achievement to make 22 interlinked films that all have a different feel and stand in their own right, but at the same time form a complex shared universe. Bravo.


: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Jim_Campbell 07 May, 2019, 08:14:26 PM
Finally saw this at the weekend after letting the hordes die down a bit

Unusually, given that I'm not the biggest fan of cinema audiences in general,I have to say that this possibly wasn't the best strategy. The early showings were packed with people who were really into the film — seeing a movie is usually a solo experience that you happen to have in a large room full of other people. When there's a few hundred people all laughing at the same jokes, applauding the same high points and, yes, sobbing inconsolably at other moments, it's honestly a very different thing.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Jimmy Baker's Assistant 07 May, 2019, 08:35:28 PM
I thought the funeral montage, clearly assembled from lots of individual little groups photoshopped together into one scene, looked really obvious and cheesy.

I also thought it looked potentially super-fake - like a Vanity Fair "group" shot of people that have never met - but it was apparently done for real.

Source: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-avengers-endgame-spoilers-explained-russo-brothers-20190503-story.html
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Dandontdare 07 May, 2019, 09:05:18 PM
I thought the funeral montage, clearly assembled from lots of individual little groups photoshopped together into one scene, looked really obvious and cheesy.

I also thought it looked potentially super-fake - like a Vanity Fair "group" shot of people that have never met - but it was apparently done for real.

Source: https://www.latimes.com/entertainment/movies/la-et-mn-avengers-endgame-spoilers-explained-russo-brothers-20190503-story.html

wow that surprises me - seems like they went to a lot of effort to pose them in such a way that it looked fake when they had the opportunity to put them together in one group (maybe in church pews like those big funeral/wedding shots they love in the comics), or interacting more (so many opportunities!).

And I still say Fury should've had a speech!
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 08 May, 2019, 09:28:43 AM
From the looks of it Fury gets his shot at an epilogue in Far From Home, so there may have been method there. But I agree, some kind of a concluding line would have been nice.

Also amazed to see the funeral scene was an actual shot and not a composite!  In particular the Van Dyne-Pyms looked like someone had raided their IMDB profiles and just photoshopped them in. Fair play to Ty Simpkins for slipping into a third Top 20 All-Time Box Office movie! Not bad at only 17.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: TordelBack 08 May, 2019, 09:45:55 AM
Should have noted that Zoe Saldana has Simpkins roundly beaten with the two highest-grossing movies, and a third in the Top 5 but she's comparatively ancient. Can anyone else beat that?
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Professor Bear 10 May, 2019, 01:06:51 AM
Finally saw it, and enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed the other MCU movies.

First takeaway: Cap sat with his thumb up his hole on 911.  This to me says he thought America deserved it.
Second takeaway: Cap has made out with an immediate family member, so if nothing else they kept leaning into the Back To The Future references.
Third takeaway: nothing you do to the past matters because timey wimey stuff, and now that we have established this, Captain America it is very important you return the stones to their exact time and place in history because of causality and uhhhh stuff.
Four: Cap says "shit" now?  Wat.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Theblazeuk 10 May, 2019, 10:04:48 AM
Well that was a lot of fun, and the most comic booky of all Marvel movies in that it became self-referential and tied up in its own continuity - and then bulldozed through any issues this caused in favour of the story or fun moments.

The only thing that niggles me is isn't Peter now 5 years behind roughly 50% of his class and of course, all the long-term issues of a world having 50% less people and then all those people back again. Going to be awkward for that bloke in the therapy group when his third date coincides with his husband coming back into existence.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Jim_Campbell 10 May, 2019, 10:22:40 AM
Third takeaway: nothing you do to the past matters because timey wimey stuff, and now that we have established this, Captain America it is very important you return the stones to their exact time and place in history because of causality and uhhhh stuff.

That wasn't my takeaway — the stones have to go back to keep Bruce's promise to the Ancient One not to fork her timeline into an altogether darker future. (Quite why that future for her is different from the present timeline for Bruce, Cap, and everyone else is a little more… umm… look! Over there! Squirrel!)
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Jim_Campbell 10 May, 2019, 10:35:21 AM
More importantly, I think: when Thanos snapped his fingers, half of all the yoghurt in existence simply vanished. Did 50% of all the pots disappear, or did all the pots suddenly contain 50% less yoghurt? What happened when all that yoghurt suddenly came back? Won't somebody think of the yoghurt?!
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Professor Bear 10 May, 2019, 12:25:36 PM
Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, did half of the jizz disappear from men's balls leaving them with one scrote full of ash?
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Jim_Campbell 10 May, 2019, 12:42:37 PM
Taking your argument to its logical conclusion, did half of the jizz disappear from men's balls leaving them with one scrote full of ash?

I'm pretty sure yoghurt and sperm aren't the same thing… but I'd assume that since everyone non-snapped didn't rapidly become ill due to the disappearance of 50% of their stomach bacteria, zapping 50% of all stomach bacteria out of existence was clearly considered as covered by zapping 50% of their host organisms. Presumably the same with sperm…

However, since Groot disappeared, why didn't 50% of the plants?
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Tiplodocus 10 May, 2019, 02:57:53 PM
Because I am Groot
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Theblazeuk 10 May, 2019, 03:06:57 PM
I recommend if you haven't already, googling "Thanos" then clicking on the infinity gauntlet on the right hand side of the search results.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Robin Low 10 May, 2019, 07:55:22 PM
However, since Groot disappeared, why didn't 50% of the plants?

I'm guessing Thanos was specifically thinking of sapient lifeforms, since they're the ones that cause all the trouble.

Loved the film, although the time travel shenanigans doesn't hold up to any kind of scrutiny (further viewings might yield some elegant fanwank, though more likely a sprained wrist with little to show for it). Anyone who feels Black Widow was a bit hard done by probably has a fair point, but I did like that she outfought Hawkeye.

Regards,

Robin
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: Tiplodocus 10 May, 2019, 10:43:52 PM
Plus anyway, when you snap away half of the universe, their kids and gut bacteria go with them. So already half is gone.
: Re: Avengers: Endgame Spoiler Thread
: IndigoPrime 11 May, 2019, 12:30:37 AM
Just saw it with Mrs IP. Her review: meh. She says she might be done with these movies. I kind of felt the same. It just felt so soulless to me, and was afflicted with the same issues as GoT right now. Some characters had plot armour (or, more accurately, contract/sequel armour), which resulted in few surprises.

I enjoyed: much of the first half; some of the one-liners; anything with Rocket; it felt like I was watching a comic miniseries.

I didn’t like: seeing that same dull CGI battle of heroes vs anonymous aliens yet again; Black Widow being killed off (but then Clint has New Series Coming Soon armour, and so I knew what would happen there); Stark’s kid growing up without a dad; the bizarre way in which Captain Marvel was handled.

I was baffled by: that “she’s got help” bit that seemed like a desperate attempt by Marvel to say “no, look, we DO have female characters”, despite having basically written out one at the start, killed another, and left BIG chunks of the film as a man fest.

I guess I just prefer the smaller movies now. Ah well – it was a night out at least, and it’s not like we get many of those these days.