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General Chat => Film & TV => : JayzusB.Christ 08 May, 2019, 11:59:15 PM

: HBO Watchmen
: JayzusB.Christ 08 May, 2019, 11:59:15 PM
I'm not at all sure if we need yet another undoing of the comic's ambiguous ending, but the trailer is out and it seems to be a sequel.
https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a27408914/watchmen-tv-show-hbo-trailer-when-set/
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: dweezil2 09 May, 2019, 02:21:10 AM
Can't someone just make Halo Jones a series?
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Fungus 09 May, 2019, 02:54:45 AM
I mouthed 'end of the world' before Don Johnson (!) said it with a cheeky grin.
A Watchmen 'sequel'?

See, this is why I avoid most TV 😀
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 09 May, 2019, 07:20:27 AM
Hrrmm.  Trailer makes it look cheap as chips. Also, what is it a sequel to? The comic? The movie? Decisions, decisions.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: wedgeski 09 May, 2019, 09:41:54 AM
A bit of extra background for anyone interested:

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/05/hbo-drops-first-teaser-for-its-upcoming-watchmen-series/

Anything with Jeremy Irons in is going to be worth a watch.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Professor Bear 16 May, 2019, 02:40:39 PM
So instead of going "Hail Hydra" they go "tick tock"?  Genius.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JayzusB.Christ 16 May, 2019, 08:16:17 PM
Might as well face facts: No one is ever going to adapt an Alan Moore comic properly.   I liked V for Vendetta, but he's meant to be an anarchist, for fuxake.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Funt Solo 17 May, 2019, 02:32:51 AM
I enjoyed the movie (despite squid removal), but mostly anything I see that tries to expand on Watchmen (https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2019/05/hbo-drops-first-teaser-for-its-upcoming-watchmen-series/) just makes me go "GAH!"

Like: "essentially merge the worlds of Watchmen and the DC Universe".  GAH!
And: "Creation. The Garden of Eden. Abraham and Isaac. The Flood. It all happened."*  GAH!
Then: "a small army of Rorschachs"  GAH!

*Admittedly, he wasn't saying he would be doing a crossover of The Bible and Watchmen, or even saying that he's a Christian fundamentalist.  But it still deserved a passing GAH!
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JayzusB.Christ 17 May, 2019, 09:42:53 AM

And: "Creation. The Garden of Eden. Abraham and Isaac. The Flood. It all happened."*  GAH!


*Admittedly, he wasn't saying he would be doing a crossover of The Bible and Watchmen, or even saying that he's a Christian fundamentalist.  But it still deserved a passing GAH!

Where did this come from?
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: rogue69 21 July, 2019, 10:16:21 AM
New trailer shown at SDCC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yKq1PRvPJQ
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Professor Bear 21 July, 2019, 01:23:36 PM
I know we're supposed to use our big-boy brains and write a detailed evaluation of a work and what we personally consider to be its artistic and/or technical shortcomings, but sometimes all something deserves is some rando on the internet saying it looks like a load of fucking shit.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 21 July, 2019, 01:35:47 PM
"So what if we brought it bang up to date by replacing Under the Hood with a movie - the first superhero movie in this Pirate-obsessed world - irony!  And what if everyone wore masks, like that Vendetta movie!  But wait, hear me out, let's make it all look utterly and completely hideous, even the airships!  You can say it now: I'm a bigger genius than Alan Moore!".
"Who?"
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JOE SOAP 21 July, 2019, 03:07:16 PM
They still don't get the joke of it all.

From the trailer it looks a cunning way of re-telling the original story through a less colourful looking sequel which is still no armour against criticism of it as an adaptation of the original work.

: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JayzusB.Christ 21 July, 2019, 09:56:25 PM
Alan Moire must be absolutely overjoyed with it all. Imagine, you write a comic and then someone makes it into a TELLY PROGRAMME!
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Frank 21 July, 2019, 10:07:19 PM
Alan Moire

All his comics are badly printed.


: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JayzusB.Christ 21 July, 2019, 10:09:12 PM
Especially V for Viennetta
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Frank 21 July, 2019, 10:35:38 PM
Especially V for Viennetta

You're thinking of Rory McConeville. You know him; did that comic with Francesco Francavanilla.


: Re: HBO Watchmen
: radiator 25 July, 2019, 10:55:29 PM
Lindelof: "(Alan Moore has) made it very clear that he doesn’t want to have any association or affiliation with Watchmen ongoing and that we not use his name to get people to watch it, which I want to respect....... I do feel like the spirit of Alan Moore is a punk rock spirit, a rebellious spirit, and that if you would tell Alan Moore, a teenage Moore in ’85 or ’86, ‘You’re not allowed to do this because Superman’s creator or Swamp Thing’s creator doesn’t want you to do it,’ he would say, ‘F— you, I’m doing it anyway.’ So I’m channeling the spirit of Alan Moore to tell Alan Moore, ‘F— you, I’m doing it anyway.’"

Not sure if we have a cringe/puke emoji, so this'll have to do  :-[

Aside from the fact that Moore was in his 30s in 1984, I think it's a pretty big misunderstanding/mischaracterisation of his work - I mean maybe you could say that about his LOEG stuff, but as far as I know Moore has always been very respectful towards other creators (his 'f you' attitude being mostly reserved for corporations like DC) and I know for a fact that Len Wein was hugely enthusiastic and complimentary of Moore's pretty drastic take on Swamp Thing.

https://ew.com/tv/2019/07/24/damon-lindelof-watchmen-hbo-series-alan-moore-tca-2019/ (https://ew.com/tv/2019/07/24/damon-lindelof-watchmen-hbo-series-alan-moore-tca-2019/)
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 25 July, 2019, 11:59:08 PM
Wow, every bit the ignorant dickhead his CV of deeply disappointing point-missing would suggest.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Dandontdare 26 July, 2019, 09:06:08 AM
Lindelof: "(Alan Moore has) made it very clear that he doesn’t want to have any association or affiliation with Watchmen ongoing and that we not use his name to get people to watch it, which I want to respect....... I do feel like the spirit of Alan Moore is a punk rock spirit, a rebellious spirit, and that if you would tell Alan Moore, a teenage Moore in ’85 or ’86, ‘You’re not allowed to do this because Superman’s creator or Swamp Thing’s creator doesn’t want you to do it,’ he would say, ‘F— you, I’m doing it anyway.’ So I’m channeling the spirit of Alan Moore to tell Alan Moore, ‘F— you, I’m doing it anyway.’"

Highlighted for emphasis - that respecting his wishes is going well....
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 26 July, 2019, 11:04:19 AM
Further:

(Alan Moore has) made it very clear that he doesn’t want to have any association or affiliation with Watchmen ongoing...

Isn't the exact opposite the truth?  Moore has always wanted Watchmen returned to himself and Gibbons*, as would have happened if DC had honoured the wishes of the creators that made them millions, and boosted the reputation and longevity of their entire industry, rather than the wording of an outdated contract.

Amazing, really: in a burning world ruled by amoral asinine assholes, Lindelof still has the power to anger me.



*Although how his would have played out in terms of screen adaptations when they drove an even bigger  lorry full of cash up to Dave's door is another matter.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: radiator 26 July, 2019, 04:52:10 PM
Should say, I don't have any strong feelings either way regarding Lindelof - I was never really into Lost and haven't seen The Leftovers (which is apparently very good). I've seen Prometheus, but I think Ridley Scott is primarily responsible for that particular dumpster fire.

But yeah, that quote in isolation really makes him sound like a bit of a dick.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Mardroid 30 July, 2019, 07:07:16 PM
I followed the link, and actually, out of isolation, the comments don't come across quite as harsh. He says nicer stuff about Moore elsewhere.

I'm in two minds about an extension, but this comment seems promising:

Lindelof did promise, however, that the original source material isn’t being retconned or rewritten in his HBO version. “We reexplore the past but it’s canon,” he says. “Everything that happened in those 12 issues could not be messed with. We were married to it. There is no rebooting it.”
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 30 July, 2019, 07:32:44 PM
Not sure I can agree there Mardroid- saying he respects Moore's work but not Moore's claim of ownership of the work, and throwing in a "f*ck off Alan", with the explanation that thats what Alan would do, is pretty despicable. He's just a rude hack with no ideas of his own.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Mardroid 30 July, 2019, 08:14:04 PM
I don't disagree he went too far. Emphasis on the word 'quite', in my comment.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Greg M. 30 July, 2019, 08:34:48 PM
I have no idea who this show is aimed at. Though I deplored the existence of the Before Watchmen comics, I could see the target audience: people who wanted Watchmen fan fiction but who didn’t respect Alan Moore. While I deplore the existence of the Doomsday Clock comics, again, I understand the audience: people who want to see a Watchmen / DCU mash-up, and who don’t respect Alan Moore. But who’s this for? People who liked Watchmen well enough to want a sequel, but didn’t understand Watchmen well enough to know that it needs no sequel, and who hate Alan Moore?
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Jimmy Baker's Assistant 30 July, 2019, 08:49:42 PM
I fear this is a show for people who know the name Watchmen but don't really know what it was about or why it was good. Which is a lot of people.

It's also a show for people who hate Alan Moore, but I think there's far fewer of those. Probably less than a million.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Frank 30 July, 2019, 09:01:56 PM
Though I deplored the existence of the Before Watchmen comics, I could see the target audience: people who wanted Watchmen fan fiction but who didn’t respect Alan Moore.

Funny and true.

Unlike everyone else, I thought - removed from any context other than contemporary US telly - the trailer looked it'd make for a quite good TV show.

Thankfully, I've never enjoyed a single thing Lindyhop has been involved with, so I realise it's almost certainly dreadful.


: Re: HBO Watchmen
: radiator 30 July, 2019, 10:04:38 PM
I have no idea who this show is aimed at. Though I deplored the existence of the Before Watchmen comics, I could see the target audience: people who wanted Watchmen fan fiction but who didn’t respect Alan Moore. While I deplore the existence of the Doomsday Clock comics, again, I understand the audience: people who want to see a Watchmen / DCU mash-up, and who don’t respect Alan Moore. But who’s this for? People who liked Watchmen well enough to want a sequel, but didn’t understand Watchmen well enough to know that it needs no sequel, and who hate Alan Moore?

My thought exactly.

Is this a sequel to the comics? Or the film? How is it going to appeal to people unfamiliar with one and not the other? Or neither? How do you square the Star Wars sequel problem of continuing a story that is essentially finished, many decades later, and in which almost all of its most visually distinct and iconic characters are long dead?

Not to put Watchmen on an unreachable pedestal or anything - I simply don't think it really lends itself to the prequel or sequel treatment - it's such a self-contained and singular product of it's time, and so closely tied to the visions of its original creators. To treat it like any other superhero property, merely source material to exploit and adapt across other media seems to miss the point in a pretty major way. To me it's like making The Shawshank Redemption 2, about Andy Dufresne and Red's adventures outside prison. Much as I like those characters, I don't want to see that. Their story is fundamentally over.

If you really want to adapt an Alan Moore comic into a TV series, you have plenty of better, more open-ended options than - Swamp Thing could have been amazing in the right hands, Halo Jones would be incredible, as would Top 10.

Apparently the show deals a lot with race and policing - prime subject matter for a TV drama for sure, but what does that have to do with Watchmen? And is that really a suitable topic for a show that features superhuman beings living on Mars?

To be honest nothing about this trailer says 'Watchmen' to me apart from the glimpses of familiar iconography (which seem a little incongruous). Take those out and it could be literally any show.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: shaolin_monkey 31 July, 2019, 01:45:26 AM
Jeez - just caught up with this. What an appalling cash-in.

Alan Moore must be digging his own grave so he can then spin in it.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Link Prime 31 July, 2019, 10:30:16 AM
Alan Moore must be digging his own grave so he can then spin in it.

Alan Moore's Grave and all related characters and elements © & ™ Warner Bros.

Not much to say about this new HBO series apart from the fact it looks absolutely awful.
I'll stick with The Handmaids Tale for my weekly slice of dystopian Drumpf.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Frank 31 July, 2019, 10:41:55 AM
Alan Moore's Grave and all related characters and elements © & ™ Warner Bros

(https://i.imgur.com/U8GfJay.png?1)


: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JayzusB.Christ 06 August, 2019, 10:57:50 AM
Jeez - just caught up with this. What an appalling cash-in.

Alan Moore must be digging his own grave so he can then spin in it.

He won't put his name on it.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Tjm86 06 August, 2019, 11:24:16 AM
Watched the trailer for this the other day and the only thing running through my mind was "what the f*** is this s***?"  It's going to take something radical to shift from that position.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: zombemybabynow 02 September, 2019, 05:00:43 PM
after the end of days - a very special place in hell will be reserved for dc/wb
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JayzusB.Christ 05 September, 2019, 10:56:16 PM
Just read that President Robert Redford from the comic is being played by real-life Robert Redford.  Which is cool, but it still looks a bit crap.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Robin Low 17 October, 2019, 09:11:15 PM
I'm hearing that this thing is getting some positive reviews. Rather than go looking for evidence to support these allegations, I thought I'd raise an eyebrow here, instead.

*raised eyebrow*

Regards,

Robin
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Professor Bear 17 October, 2019, 10:34:52 PM
The industry response to this all along hasn't exactly been what one would call cautious or critical, so I'm not sure positive reviews of the end product should surprise anyone.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Jim_Campbell 17 October, 2019, 10:44:44 PM
I’ve decided it’s shit and I’m not going to actually watch it, because then I might have to change my mind.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Link Prime 18 October, 2019, 09:45:46 AM
I’ve decided it’s shit and I’m not going to actually watch it, because then I might have to change my mind.

Hear, Hear
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Bolt-01 18 October, 2019, 10:51:42 AM
Nah - I'll give it a go - watch the first season to see just how bad it can be.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Tiplodocus 18 October, 2019, 12:03:21 PM
I’ve decided it’s shit and I’m not going to actually watch it, because then I might have to change my mind.

I used a vaguely similar tactic with the last three seasons of Breaking Bad. I didn't like the first two seasons enough to continue but everyone kept telling me how great it was.

So I just assumed it is brilliant and now, i don't need to watch it and reconcile how I really feel with the critical mass of opinion.

I think they call it a win-win.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 18 October, 2019, 01:48:29 PM
You people are just determined to let the terrorists win.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Professor Bear 18 October, 2019, 03:32:31 PM
I’ve decided it’s shit and I’m not going to actually watch it, because then I might have to change my mind.

AKA: The John Carter Effect.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Jim_Campbell 18 October, 2019, 03:35:47 PM
I’ve decided it’s shit and I’m not going to actually watch it, because then I might have to change my mind.

AKA: The John Carter Effect.

In my defence, I really like John Carter. :-)
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Bolt-01 18 October, 2019, 03:47:35 PM
And so do I.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Greg M. 19 October, 2019, 09:43:39 AM
God, Lindelof must be one of the most worthless, egomaniacal, scum-sucking twats alive. Every day, he's coming out with another "Alan Moore said... Alan Moore did... Alan Moore's budgie's second cousin might've thought..." to desperately sell this show. The latest? "Alan Moore might've put a curse on me... but I won't use Alan Moore's name (which is Alan Moore by the way... A-L-A-N - yes, that's it) to promote this Alan Moore-based show." I wish Dave Gibbons had told him to fuck right off as well.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Link Prime 21 October, 2019, 12:01:08 PM
God, Lindelof must be one of the most worthless, egomaniacal, scum-sucking twats alive. Every day, he's coming out with another "Alan Moore said... Alan Moore did... Alan Moore's budgie's second cousin might've thought..." to desperately sell this show. The latest? "Alan Moore might've put a curse on me... but I won't use Alan Moore's name (which is Alan Moore by the way... A-L-A-N - yes, that's it) to promote this Alan Moore-based show." I wish Dave Gibbons had told him to fuck right off as well.

If I was an omnipotent Blue God and Lindelof was a pregnant Vietnamese hooer, I'd probably stand by and do nuthin if Greg M shot him in the gut.
Joking aside - I've just read some really, really positive reviews for that first episode (it aired last night in the US). 
Definitely tempted to tune in this evening at 9.00pm.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Radbacker 21 October, 2019, 12:02:47 PM
Well first episode was pretty good, sequel to the comic story (definitely was a giant squid in this universe not Dr Manhattan doing off) with the admittedly brilliant art direction from the movie.  Sets up a decent mystery in the first episode and while it does have some action not glorifying it like the movie (which while it all looked pretty cool kinda missed the point of the comic)
so Don Johnson character doesn’t last past the first episode but pretty sure we may see him in some flashbacks, anyone who’s seen it think he may have been Nightowl 2, Sister Night (or what ever her name is) was drinking from an Owl mug in his office and pretty sure they were owls hooting at the end when he was hanging from the tree
Looking forward to episode 2

CU Radbacker
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Link Prime 21 October, 2019, 10:41:39 PM
Stick with yer gut instinct, kid.

I caved in and watched it - beyond awful.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JOE SOAP 21 October, 2019, 11:59:06 PM
It's fine as a bit of Sci-Fi when it's not remembering it needs to reference WATCHMEN (the clunky superfluous bits) because HBO paid for the license.

: Re: HBO Watchmen
: shaolin_monkey 22 October, 2019, 12:33:01 AM
so Don Johnson character doesn’t last past the first episode but pretty sure we may see him in some flashbacks, anyone who’s seen it think he may have been Nightowl 2, Sister Night (or what ever her name is) was drinking from an Owl mug in his office and pretty sure they were owls hooting at the end when he was hanging from the tree

Aye, that and they were flying Archie.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Bolt-01 22 October, 2019, 08:56:17 AM
I did think that, and if that was the case then Mrs Don Johnson would be Sally. However, Mrs Johnson references Mr Johnson being in Oklahoma at high school. This is the sort of think spouses would know, but Sally didn't go to school with Dan...

However, the first issue opens with the murder of the Comedian so losing a major character at the start is part of the accepted storytelling methodology.


Spoilers for those not watching yet.

I quite enjoyed it, and will watch the rest of the season, but it's 'not' Watchmen is it?
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 22 October, 2019, 11:47:54 AM
Alan Moore is judging you lot through the all-seeing Eye of Glycon. He has weighed your withered souls against a 10-spot of finest Morrocan and found them less than worthy. There'll be no pints waiting down the Jolly Smokers for ye.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Professor Bear 22 October, 2019, 03:19:24 PM
I'm surprised those who watched it are okay with white creators appropriating black stories like the Tulsa Race Riot in the rather opportunistic and sensationalist way Watchmen does, or the bit where a white man is nervous because he's been pulled over by a black police officer.  It's like the makers of Watchmen have just taken someone else's story and used its trappings without understanding...
ohhhhhhhhh

Well anyway, this was fine, but I recall when Sliders was on the go, a common thing among fans was to nitpick how the different worlds they visited actually worked on a day-to-day basis rather than as a brain fart premise - IE: gender-swapped history: how work? - and my immediate thought was "how does visible policing like beat cops and traffic tickets get done if cops are hiding all the time?"  It does throw up some interesting notions that Watchmen's America practices some form of anarcho-syndacalism to enforce the basic tenets of the social contract, though it remains to be seen if this is on the federal level or differs from state to state.  I'm sure they'll explain in the next episode.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 22 October, 2019, 04:31:30 PM
Well anyway, this was fine, but I recall when Sliders was on the go, a common thing among fans was to nitpick how the different worlds they visited actually worked on a day-to-day basis rather than as a brain fart premise - IE: gender-swapped history: how work?

The most improbable world of all is the one where there are Sliders fans.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Professor Bear 22 October, 2019, 05:04:30 PM
I am given to understand that they actually visited that world in the show.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 22 October, 2019, 05:06:14 PM
Nah, that was an episode of Survival Geeks.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Link Prime 22 October, 2019, 05:17:01 PM
Did no one else tap out at the scene featuring a fat cop in a panda outfit?
No one?

: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Proudhuff 22 October, 2019, 05:30:42 PM
I hate it when the Hivemind's split.... tell me what to think!

I cant take anymore half arsed Netflix/Prime pointless serials filled with half arsed refs and or alt worlds that are  ill thought out and downright annoying...I'm looking at you Salem! 
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 22 October, 2019, 05:44:39 PM
Finally,  someone appreciates your work Proudhuff!
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 25 October, 2019, 06:22:08 AM
Was  just served up a Polygon article containing the shocking news that the superhero Rorschach whose visage apparently dominates HBO's hit show Watchmen was not in fact intended as a loving homage to Batman.

(Deeper down it's actually a pretty good piece that touches on Moore's attitude to Ditko and Rand,  but you have to get through many paragraphs that assume you think Rorschach is a goodie).

((I've read an alarming amount of Tweets this week that assume Moore's name isn't on the show because be disapproves of how Lindlehof subverts the 'happy ending' of Watchmen by not having Adrian's scheme result in eternal world peace)).
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JayzusB.Christ 25 October, 2019, 01:54:49 PM

((I've read an alarming amount of Tweets this week that assume Moore's name isn't on the show because be disapproves of how Lindlehof subverts the 'happy ending' of Watchmen by not having Adrian's scheme result in eternal world peace)).

Well, don't sound so surprised. If there was one thing Alan Grant wanted to do with The Watchman, it was to create moral certainties and get rid of grey areas. Why do you think he made Rawshack the hero?
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Jim_Campbell 25 October, 2019, 02:05:54 PM
Well, don't sound so surprised. If there was one thing Alan Grant wanted to do with The Watchman, it was to create moral certainties and get rid of grey areas. Why do you think he made Rawshack the hero?

This is the sort of close-read criticism that really cuts to the heart of the matter. Bravo!
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JayzusB.Christ 25 October, 2019, 03:23:39 PM
One does one's best.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Dudley 27 October, 2019, 01:43:18 AM
Much to my shock and amazement episode one was bloody brilliant.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JayzusB.Christ 28 October, 2019, 11:12:26 AM
I've just watched it too. I didn't want to like it, but I thought it was ok.  Sorry, Alan. Better by far than any Before Watchmen stuff or Doomsday Clock. 
If it continues to be good I'll just have to keep telling myself it isn't the Alan Moore Watchmen universe but another one where the same shit happened as Watchmen.

And Jeremy Irons is Veidt, isn't he?  I don't think Veidt was ever supposed to be English,  but it's always been hard to read his dialogue in any other accent.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: wedgeski 30 October, 2019, 04:13:55 PM
I just watched the first two and was riveted. Superb storytelling.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: judgeurko 07 November, 2019, 06:09:46 PM
Just binged on the first 3 episodes. This is great stuff. Far better than I thought it would be.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: wedgeski 20 November, 2019, 09:12:09 AM
Wow. The Looking Glass episode was incredible. This series is top shelf.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: blackmocco 20 November, 2019, 07:09:27 PM
Yeah, I've had to eat some major crow regarding Lindelof's involvement in this. I mean, six weeks ago, I was still willing to write it off as a dreadful idea and that Lindelof was a hack. Credit where it's due: it's not just so much better than I was expecting, but I think it's probably my favorite show of the year. Great cast, sharp and unexpected writing, a sense of doom lurking beneath everything a la the book, and a great retooling of the original book's themes and elements. Lindelof called it a "remix", incurring my cynical wrath at the time, but he's hit the nail on the head and knocked this thing out of the park. The greatest compliment I can pay it is that it's not difficult for me to envision some of the compositions as Gibbons' art. Great stuff.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: radiator 20 November, 2019, 07:56:14 PM
Wow - I've heard a lot of good stuff, I will have to get around to checking it out at some point.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 21 November, 2019, 06:32:20 AM
Resist!  Glycon wills jt so!

Hey, has anyone considered that Lindyhop might be setting you faithless sods up,  luring you in with carefully crafted show only to have a season finale crossover where (say) the  airline from Lost lands in Times Square and the resulting twittergasm finally reunites all fandom in rejection of all future Moore adaptations/spinoffs?

'Cos I'd watch that.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JOE SOAP 25 November, 2019, 03:20:32 AM
I still kneel before The Hairy One’s word-processor, but Bootleg Watchmen or not, Episode 6: This Extraordinary Being, is one of the best pieces of telly I’ve ever seen.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: blackmocco 26 November, 2019, 04:42:57 PM
I still kneel before The Hairy One’s word-processor, but Bootleg Watchmen or not, Episode 6: This Extraordinary Being, is one of the best pieces of telly I’ve ever seen.

Indeed. Without Moore's involvement (or endorsement, even), this was always going to be nothing more than fan fiction (the same point made today by one of the show's producers) jumping off from the book but man, it's high quality and beautifully told fan fiction.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: blackmocco 26 November, 2019, 05:56:29 PM
On that note, I have a question:

Spoilers lurk beyond...

Now that Lindelof has given his origin for Hooded Justice, I find myself somewhat surprised the costume's imagery never struck me as racial in nature before. Not being an American, I'd previously - innocently - assumed the costume's elements were reflecting a more general executioner's hood with noose, but of course that imagery has always had a far different connotation when applied to US history and Lindelof's take on it is a perfectly legitimate one. My gut says Moore and Gibbons probably didn't have that extra weight in mind when concocting the original book and designs but Watchmen has a lot to say about America and its culture too, so now I'm finding it hard to shake off the notion there's something more there. Moore's more than learned enough to have considered those visuals and what they meant to America.

Man, after all these years, I actually have a question to ask him that might not insult his intelligence. (Like he'd answer a question about a Watchmen TV spin-off is about as likely as me hanging out with him in the first place. Humor me.) Any thoughts...?
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: shaolin_monkey 26 November, 2019, 11:07:22 PM
Damn, if I had said “If this turns out well I’ll eat my hat” then I’d be eating my hat now.

I’m really enjoying this.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: radiator 27 November, 2019, 07:41:16 PM
The little tidbits I've heard about the show - something about a superhero reality TV show and a Dr Manhattan dildo - sound, on the face of it, really crass and stupid and would ordinarily put me off watching the show completely. But on the strength of the reception it's getting here and elsewhere I'll have to give it watch.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: moogie101 27 November, 2019, 08:20:04 PM
The little tidbits I've heard about the show - something about a superhero reality TV show and a Dr Manhattan dildo - sound, on the face of it, really crass and stupid and would ordinarily put me off watching the show completely. But on the strength of the reception it's getting here and elsewhere I'll have to give it watch.

Like any shows there's a few things you could take out of context & deride a show for, but its well worth a watch. Like many on here I stubbornly watched the first episode expecting to hate it but instead its a really strong show & one of the few things on at the moment that I genuinely look forward to.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: blackmocco 02 December, 2019, 05:34:43 PM
The little tidbits I've heard about the show - something about a superhero reality TV show and a Dr Manhattan dildo - sound, on the face of it, really crass and stupid and would ordinarily put me off watching the show completely. But on the strength of the reception it's getting here and elsewhere I'll have to give it watch.

If that's your reasoning for avoiding it you're seriously missing out, mate.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Radbacker 03 December, 2019, 03:07:40 AM
Big reveal in the latest episode, hinted at previously but still pretty stand out moment in the series.  Nice misleads with the swapping of the possible villain now becoming our possible saviour and original villain being revealed as the real villain of that makes sense.
I thought 7th Cavalry were a red hearing and Lady Triu being the true baddy of the piece but it turns out 7th cav are just a bunch of racist bad guys who want Doc Manhattans power to tip the balance back to how it should be and Lady Triu trying to stop them though no doubt it will be a bit more complicated than that, do you think her dad is Ozy, still not sure where his story is heading though as confirmed last night his story is not running in the same time frame as the main story, is it possible he’s already back and was that unmentioned fireball that landed in the farm a couple of weeks ago??
Great series up there with Mandalorian as best series this year.

CU Radbacker
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: ming 03 December, 2019, 01:39:02 PM
Really enjoying this; didn't go in with any expectations or pre-judgement and it's been a very enjoyable series so far.  Makes me want a Top Ten series now, but I'll happily settle for a re-read.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: blackmocco 03 December, 2019, 02:37:19 PM
Big reveal in the latest episode, hinted at previously but still pretty stand out moment in the series.  Nice misleads with the swapping of the possible villain now becoming our possible saviour and original villain being revealed as the real villain of that makes sense.
I thought 7th Cavalry were a red hearing and Lady Triu being the true baddy of the piece but it turns out 7th cav are just a bunch of racist bad guys who want Doc Manhattans power to tip the balance back to how it should be and Lady Triu trying to stop them though no doubt it will be a bit more complicated than that, do you think her dad is Ozy, still not sure where his story is heading though as confirmed last night his story is not running in the same time frame as the main story, is it possible he’s already back and was that unmentioned fireball that landed in the farm a couple of weeks ago??
Great series up there with Mandalorian as best series this year.

CU Radbacker

There are plenty of internet opinions forming a cluster around the notion that Edward Blake might be her father courtesy of his time in Vietnam...
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Proudhuff 03 December, 2019, 03:04:08 PM
Okay, I'll bite, how can we see this? for those of us who dont do HBO?
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Bolt-01 03 December, 2019, 03:13:18 PM
hhmmm, well I see it through my SKY pack, but I would imagine that NOW TV will have it shortly as well.

And it really is that good (or it has been to now - there was a moment for me in the last episode that could well signal the jumping of the shark if handled badly)
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Pyroxian 03 December, 2019, 03:21:29 PM
Okay, I'll bite, how can we see this? for those of us who dont do HBO?

I'm watching it through Now TV
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 03 December, 2019, 08:39:55 PM
Makes me want a Top Ten series now, but I'll happily settle for a re-read.

Top Ten would make a great TV series, finally doable technically and also slap bang in the zeitgeist. Others crave Halo Jones Book IV or a comprehensible end to Promethea, I  just want a Moore-penned Top Ten Season 2. As it was ABC, does that mean Moore holds the rights and might deign to be involved, or did the DC takeover and 'Marvel Douche' fiasco screw that up too? I don't remember,  but looking at the execrable LoEG movie,  I'm assuming the latter.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: radiator 03 December, 2019, 09:05:48 PM
My memory is hazy, but didn't DC basically buy out Wildstorm to get its hands on The ABC stuff? I seem to remember that there was some kind of exception for LOEG, though.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: TordelBack 03 December, 2019, 10:30:20 PM
My memory is hazy, but didn't DC basically buy out Wildstorm to get its hands on The ABC stuff? I seem to remember that there was some kind of exception for LOEG, though.

That resonates with my even more hazy memories.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: wedgeski 04 December, 2019, 09:40:47 AM
Another barn-stormer. In a decade of brilliant television this is right up there and if it sticks the landing, will go down as one of the greats. As you can tell, I'm quite the fan.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Tiplodocus 10 December, 2019, 10:21:08 PM
Just found out Tiny Tips is still paying for Now TV so managed to catch the rather excellent first episode of this.

I'm as surprised as anyone!
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: blackmocco 11 December, 2019, 01:18:34 AM
Just found out Tiny Tips is still paying for Now TV so managed to catch the rather excellent first episode of this.

I'm as surprised as anyone!

Wait til you get to the most recent one...
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Bolt-01 11 December, 2019, 08:31:42 AM
I really liked the word play in the episode title and I thoroughly enjoyed the episode itself. I've put the shark back on hold...
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: blackmocco 11 December, 2019, 04:43:00 PM
Yeah, the end of last week's episode had me nervous. Lindelof's gonna Lindelof! But thankfully, miraculously, they pulled it off.

A couple of thoughts:

- Eggs. In episode 1, attention is brought to Angela's use of eggs while baking for a class of kids. In episode 2, once he's freed himself from his handcuffs, we see Will cooking eggs. He reaches into a boiling pot of water to gather them with no consequences. Is it crazy to think Dr. M has imbued Will with his powers...? Is that why Dr. M sends Angela's kids to him for safety?
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Tiplodocus 11 December, 2019, 05:40:46 PM
I still feel dirty for watching it though.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: pauljholden 11 December, 2019, 05:55:21 PM
I still feel dirty for watching it though.

in a rare instance of two wrongs making a right - the best way to fix this is to watch a pirated copy...

-PJ

(I'M JOKING)
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JayzusB.Christ 18 January, 2020, 12:23:41 PM
I still feel dirty for watching it though.

I know what you mean. I'm only four episodes in, and while I don't know exactly what's going on, I'm enjoying it a lot.  It absolutely wipes the floor with that Doomsday Clock thingy, and of course Before sodding Watchmen.  Also it makes the Snyder movie look like the subtlety-free effects-fest that it is.

I say that knowing there's a big plot twist coming up (no spoilers pleae), and that when I die, a blond-haired sock-puppet will drag me into Hades and finger-bite me Emu-style for all eternity.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: blackmocco 18 January, 2020, 04:36:56 PM
And that's a wrap. Looks like Lindelof is out for a season 2, meaning most likely what we got is what we got. I'm actually okay with that, even if I also say Watchmen was my favourite show of 2019. Think I'd be as nervous about a season 2 as I was when I heard about a season 1!
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Keef Monkey 24 January, 2020, 02:10:09 PM
Just finished this last night and my trajectory with it was the same as a lot of people's seemingly - didn't like the idea of it existing, didn't have any interest in seeing it and so ignored it completely until some trusted friends started raving, watched it and absolutely loved it.

Definitely one of the best (and most densely crafted) seasons of TV I've ever seen, was utterly hooked throughout and I don't think it dropped the ball at all (I was initially disappointed they were going back to the eggs at the end of the finale rather than leaving it as something for viewers to theorize on their own and speculate about, but as it was happening I decided I'd be happy as long as they ended it Nolan-style, and they Nolanned it so I was good) and stuck the landing confidently.

Love that it was conceived as a single season of TV rather than something they intend to spin out as long as possible, that's really rare and this way it'll go down as a great cool thing that happened rather than overstay its welcome and fizzle out or get cancelled like many shows with strong first seasons tend to (funnily enough Lost is probably the best example of that kind of frustrating milking, and to think these were written by the same person is odd).
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: judgeurko 24 January, 2020, 03:22:44 PM
I still feel dirty for watching it though.
I don't. Alan Moore has used pre-existing characters plenty of times. He is a hypocrite & this show was great!
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: Jim_Campbell 24 January, 2020, 03:46:19 PM
I don't. Alan Moore has used pre-existing characters plenty of times. He is a hypocrite & this show was great!

Either out-of-copyright characters, or with the express permission of the IP owners and sometimes also with the active blessing of the original creators (Swamp Thing, at the very least).

The copyright issue on Watchmen is very murky — the reversion clause in Moore & Gibbons' original contract strongly implies that they retained ownership and that it was effectively 'leased' to DC for as long as the book remained in print.

'Before Watchmen' and then 'Doomsday Clock' were essentially a flagrant IP grab by DC, first diluting Moore & Gibbons claim to sole authorship and then folding the property into the shared universe of IP DC did own… I'd be very surprised if Moore hadn't taken legal advice on this, but if Warner wanted to dig their heels in, they have pockets deep enough to bankrupt anyone trying to take them on in the courts.
: Re: HBO Watchmen
: JayzusB.Christ 31 January, 2020, 09:31:16 PM
Watched the last one last week. If I was a teenager, it would be my divorced Mam's new boyfriend - I really didn't want to like it, but we ended up getting on famously.  Though, of course, the source material will always be my real dad.

I really loved how the initial weirdness gradually made more and more sense, in a way that was very reminiscent of, well, Alan Moore (but more Marvelman than Watchmen really).  Case in point: The revelation of where exactly Veidt's home is, and where his staff came from.  Brilliant.  Also quite Moore-ish were the breathtaking identity reveals. You know the two characters I'm talking about.  Up there with the unmasking of Rorschach.

A couple of small quibbles:

1.  The hypnosis thing.  It really, really doesn't work like that.  Wish I could put that strobe thing down to Manhattan spin-off tech, but of course it preceded his arrival by decades.


2.  Veidt.  Jeremy Irons is a great actor and his Veidt was a great character, but it wasn't the Veidt I know.  Moore's Ozymandias was self-sacrificing and above ego.  For all the awful things he did there was a kind of nobility about him and he did it all, at least in his view, for the good of others.  The Irons version was petty and boastful; seemingly in constant need of praise and reverence.  Also his eventual arrest was far too reminiscent of the movie Laurie's ridiculous glowering sulk after learning of his genocidal act, rather than tbe comic version's awestruck moral confusion.


But feck it. HBO took an idea that should have been terrible and made it a success, and I'm impressed.