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Spoilers => Prog => : davidbishop 15 February, 2020, 04:31:35 PM

: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: davidbishop 15 February, 2020, 04:31:35 PM
Cracking one-off Dredd in the new prog! Extra oil rations for all the droids.
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Darren Stephens 15 February, 2020, 04:35:28 PM
Yeh, lovely one-off Dredd. That final panel left me smiling. Stunning cover from the Robinson and Teague droids, too. Only had time to read Rex so far. Awesome stuff!
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Richard 15 February, 2020, 05:31:50 PM
I really liked Dredd, although I do wonder whether the ending might confuse new readers.
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Richard 15 February, 2020, 05:32:17 PM
I forgot to say: a fitting ending for Brink.
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Eamonn Clarke 15 February, 2020, 06:51:38 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/0VpZoZM.jpg)

Cliff Robinson and Dylan Teague
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Eamonn Clarke 15 February, 2020, 06:52:20 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/HNITKU9.jpg)
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Woolly 15 February, 2020, 07:04:59 PM
Niemand's best Dredd so far, and considering all his others are sublime then thats saying something!
He's a keeper, Tharg...
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: JayzusB.Christ 15 February, 2020, 07:07:13 PM
Love that cover. Great to see Cliff's keeping the logo-incorporated-into-the-picture thing alive.  He's been around since I was very small and I'm glad he's still there.
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Woolly 15 February, 2020, 07:56:16 PM
Niemand's best Dredd so far, and considering all his others are sublime then thats saying something!
He's a keeper, Tharg...

Just noticed an art cock-up in this weeks Dredd... I'll not say what it is though  ;)
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Bolt-01 15 February, 2020, 08:33:55 PM
Has anyone else had a problem reading the RED on BLACK text in Feral & Foe?

I had to get a magnifying glass out!
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Colin YNWA 15 February, 2020, 09:07:54 PM
Has anyone else had a problem reading the RED on BLACK text in Feral & Foe?

I had to get a magnifying glass out!

Beat me to it, I was like reading 'Damage Report' from back in the day when it was grey against dark grey / black. Mind with a shift of the Prog to catch the light I could make it...

...and I've one other complaint. Which will be a bit Facebookie so I'll save it for the end. Cos its seems an absolute crime to moan about anything when the Prog is THIS good. I mean this run has been good. But by all that's thrillpowered this is a Prog and a half it really is. Its bloody amazing.

Okay so it could be said that Zaucer of Zilk has a slightly quieter Prog than normal. But since normal is quite superb and this is just a bit superb its silly to see that as a negative.

Feral and Foe has the very unfortunatel fate of having a real up swing and blood red on black aside its quite clear that this thrill is at its best when it has a Tank in it. The previous episodes with the Tank rose the level of fun to magic and this one does it again. With bonus soul sword for good measure and a wonderful twisty turn. Just brilliant... and yet only the fourth best thing in the Prog.

So a Keith Neimand and Tom Foster Dredd is going to fare better right... well yeah... but its still only the third best thing and its absolutely magnificent - I mean Kenny Who good. JUst fantastic to look at and christ whomever Neimand is he is perfect at Dredd. Just pitch perfect...

...So Proteus Vex then... well its close but no. I mean this is fantastic, absolutely Kirbyesque brilliant and Henry Flint is on absolute fire here its just out of this world and yet so solidly bound storytelling. Its sharp, witty, thrilling and crafted in a burning furnace of unfettered imagination. I adore this series and this is possibly the best episode to date.

And so OF COURSE that leaves us Brink - with crashes down into a schmaltz and twee, comfort blanket of a happy ending epilogue that mollifies what has gone before... bollocks and arse its does, OF COURSE it bloody doesn't ... except it kinda does... kinda its just Dabnett and INJ Culbard are so brilliant they make it work perfectly. Absolutely perfectly. This then is added to by the fact its has such a different tone and feel to what we are used to with this thrill it has like 262% more impactful (exactly 262%, not approximately, 262% or hyperbolically 262% actually measure with an impact-o-scope 262% more) than it would in any other series. Just when you think this wonderous series has given you all it can, has shown you all the delights it can possibly offer in five simple pages it lovingly slaps you across the face screaming I AM MORE THAN YOU CAN KNOW and leaves you with the greatest stinging cheek your life will ever know. By 262%

So the Facebookie complaint. Look I'm really please that Tharg has let Brink finish and I'm super glad we are getting these all ages issues this year, its a FANTASTIC thing. Its just a shame that the momentum will be lost from three absolutely fantastic thrills... or will they. Am I being too Facebookie (WE. DON'T. LIKE. CHANGE)? Will the break give me a different delight and then when these three thrills return I will have renewed vigour and anticipation for them?

Well lets find out shall we. Thing is Tharg has gone out on such a bang!?!
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: McNulty 15 February, 2020, 10:57:22 PM
It's been a while, but here are my thoughts on this week's prog.

Dredd: By far my most favourite story this week. The dark artstyle was very atmospheric and the writing was spot on. I enjoyed lots of elements of this story. Dredd brought the case up but left it to others to sift through the minutia in order to crack it. The use of the robot judges shows that Dredd is not above seeing their worth in certain areas. Dredd goes about his day while the painstaking process goes on. And in the end he isn't even in on the final bust. I really liked this story.

The Zaucer of Zilk: I like this colourful art and insane story. True, this is less of an action orientated episode, but enjoyable nonetheless.

Proteus Vex: This one has been harder to get into. Flint's art is excellent as always but the story is difficult to get into. However that is true of any original story when you have to balance universe building exposition, character motivations and action and drama from scratch. I can still find myself enjoying this but it will require re-reading.

Feral and Foe: Eight episodes in and I still can't emphasize with the primary characters. Frankly I can see Orsola's motivations a lot clearer than the other two. The art's great and I do like the story (been playing Warcraft for years now). So I will keep with it, unless it goes too far into Kingmaker territory.

Next prog we are getting the Regened takeover, which I wasn't in love with last time, but I will give it a chance.

I was especially fond of the Dredd story this week because it harked back to an earlier time in 2000AD's history. This was important for me because I lost my Dad last Sunday. It was Dad who introduced my family to 2000AD when it started back in the late 70s. I was a bit young for it then, I was only about 6 or 7, but I still remember the bionic stickers that came with prog 2 when it arrived. As the years went on I gradually started reading the progs that he would buy and eventually read the back progs he collected in earnest. Later my younger brother would read them as well. Happy memories included talks we had about things that Dredd, Rogue, Alpha and Slaine were doing that week, although my favourites of that time were more Robohunter and Ace Trucking. Eventually, the task of collecting the progs fell to me and it was one I was happy to continue. Dad would still read the progs but now he had to wait until I has read them. Even in later years when he was less fond of the newer stories and artstyles that were coming over, he still had good things to say about 2000AD. I can say that he read 2000AD right up until the end of his life. And for that I want to thank everyone at 2000AD for this shared memory.
I am going to keep reading 2000AD, mostly because I can still get enjoyment from the progs and partly because I want to keep those memories. 
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Tjm86 16 February, 2020, 05:54:12 AM
I'm in the 'Regened should be a special' camp myself.  Don't get me wrong, I applaud the idea and there were some reasonable strips last time.  I just feel that it is a bit of a missed opportunity.  At the end of the day though, most of us here would be buying it anyway. 

If it was a standalone special then anyone following up on it is less likely to be jarred by the normal prog, on the shelves against the prog it would highlight the fact that tooth is ongoing and possibly encourage casual readers to give it a try, it highlights the distinctive nature of the characters together with their relationship to current characters and stories ...

When you look at the increased output from Rebellion on the specials front (and the calls in this quarter for several of them to be more regular!) it does seem a peculiar approach.  It would be interesting to know why this one was chosen.

: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: broodblik 16 February, 2020, 06:53:17 AM
I'm in the 'Regened should be a special' camp myself.  Don't get me wrong, I applaud the idea and there were some reasonable strips last time.  I just feel that it is a bit of a missed opportunity.  At the end of the day though, most of us here would be buying it anyway. 

I am in the same camp and would have bought the specials. 
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Magnetica 16 February, 2020, 07:52:47 AM
I’m not bothered if the Regened is a special or not. But surely if it was a special it would be on sale for longer and therefore more likely to have higher sales.

As to the current thrills losing momentum due to the break, well you could just keep this week’s Prog handy for when normal service resumes in two weeks’ time.
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: IndigoPrime 16 February, 2020, 01:55:18 PM
I recall Matt saying Regened was the best-selling Prog last year. That might suggest a reason for it returning in this way. As for spinning it off, perhaps it will if this run works out. Who knows? (Personally, I’d sooner see Cor/Buster as a monthly though.)

I am a bit hmm about the scheduling though. Would have been nice if the strips had wrapped up, then Regened, then a jump-on. At least Brink was concluded. Two weeks for the final part would have been a nightmare.

Now, who do we have to bribe to get Brink in an Image-style HC?
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: TordelBack 16 February, 2020, 02:54:47 PM
I'm sure Rebellion have considered all these revenue vs. reach vs. visibility vs. irritating-your-core issues. Regened remains an attempt to grow the audience and keep the House of Tharg strong so we can enjoy the prog until we all drop dead from heat exhaustion in the soy-bean fields or ABR superbugs on the flood-defence work gangs.  Wasn't really bowled over by the first one but I'll support it and refrain from moaning in advance because it's innovation and experiment and that's always better than complacency and depending on the largely non-existant retirement funds of a sadly dwindling number of balding twats.
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: broodblik 16 February, 2020, 03:21:42 PM
I also think the scheduling could have been done more like a natural break rather than a stop-gap release.  Now we must wait two weeks to get most likely the final two episodes of Vex, Feral and Zaucer. 
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Magnetica 16 February, 2020, 03:36:19 PM
Simply a great Prog.

Yes the red on black is very hard to read.

I have also worked out what the error in the Dredd art is: the shoulder pad and eagle are the wrong way round in the panel on the bottom of page 3.

Have we come across Bonner in Brink before?

Proteus Vex is getting really interesting now.
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Jacqusie 16 February, 2020, 09:12:02 PM

I am a bit hmm about the scheduling though. Would have been nice if the strips had wrapped up, then Regened, then a jump-on.


I like your thinking and agree wholeheartedly. I'm all for 2000AD finding a younger audience and the marketing needs to be there, but the way they are doing it seems a bit odd just wanging in the regen prog which breaks up the stories. Your solution fits well.

Really good Dredd this week and it would have made a good little 3 parter or so. I'd still love to see Tom Foster's wonderful inks be showcased a little more steady on the colours, he's got such great line work
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: broodblik 17 February, 2020, 06:45:31 PM
The latest cover reminds me of something Cliff did many moons ago

(http://www.2000ad.org/functions/cover.php?Comic=2000ad&choice=511)
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: broodblik 17 February, 2020, 06:46:23 PM
The latest cover reminds me of something Cliff did many moons ago

(http://www.2000ad.org/covers/2000ad/hires/511.jpg)
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: MumboJimbo 19 February, 2020, 01:56:03 PM
Feral and Foe: Eight episodes in and I still can't emphasize with the primary characters.

I, personally, completely get where Bode and Wrath are coming from. Their side lost, and their whole raison d'etre went with it. Now it's a matter of survival in a new world order that is hostile to them. Despite being "the baddies" they're not monsters, but neither are they saints - they have no qualms about killing if it comes down to a "them or us" scenario. In these aspects, it reminds me a little of Firefly. Neither seem the kind of people to create deep bonds with others and just stick together because, well, who else would have them?

Above all else they're just trying to survive day by day in world that no longer has a place for them, which engenders a rather dry, gallows-humour pragmatism. I enjoy it.
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Proudhuff 19 February, 2020, 03:32:59 PM
It's been a while, but here are my thoughts on this week's prog.

Dredd: By far my most favourite story this week. The dark artstyle was very atmospheric and the writing was spot on. I enjoyed lots of elements of this story. Dredd brought the case up but left it to others to sift through the minutia in order to crack it. The use of the robot judges shows that Dredd is not above seeing their worth in certain areas. Dredd goes about his day while the painstaking process goes on. And in the end he isn't even in on the final bust. I really liked this story.

The Zaucer of Zilk: I like this colourful art and insane story. True, this is less of an action orientated episode, but enjoyable nonetheless.

Proteus Vex: This one has been harder to get into. Flint's art is excellent as always but the story is difficult to get into. However that is true of any original story when you have to balance universe building exposition, character motivations and action and drama from scratch. I can still find myself enjoying this but it will require re-reading.

Feral and Foe: Eight episodes in and I still can't emphasize with the primary characters. Frankly I can see Orsola's motivations a lot clearer than the other two. The art's great and I do like the story (been playing Warcraft for years now). So I will keep with it, unless it goes too far into Kingmaker territory.

Next prog we are getting the Regened takeover, which I wasn't in love with last time, but I will give it a chance.

I was especially fond of the Dredd story this week because it harked back to an earlier time in 2000AD's history. This was important for me because I lost my Dad last Sunday. It was Dad who introduced my family to 2000AD when it started back in the late 70s. I was a bit young for it then, I was only about 6 or 7, but I still remember the bionic stickers that came with prog 2 when it arrived. As the years went on I gradually started reading the progs that he would buy and eventually read the back progs he collected in earnest. Later my younger brother would read them as well. Happy memories included talks we had about things that Dredd, Rogue, Alpha and Slaine were doing that week, although my favourites of that time were more Robohunter and Ace Trucking. Eventually, the task of collecting the progs fell to me and it was one I was happy to continue. Dad would still read the progs but now he had to wait until I has read them. Even in later years when he was less fond of the newer stories and artstyles that were coming over, he still had good things to say about 2000AD. I can say that he read 2000AD right up until the end of his life. And for that I want to thank everyone at 2000AD for this shared memory.
I am going to keep reading 2000AD, mostly because I can still get enjoyment from the progs and partly because I want to keep those memories.

Sorry to hear that McNulty, sounds like he was a lovely chap.
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Proudhuff 19 February, 2020, 03:38:20 PM
That Bish-op Droid needs a visit to Specsavers.... 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Fears! Good job he doesn't edit anything important  :lol:
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: davidbishop 20 February, 2020, 08:04:08 AM
A visit to Spockshavers? I'll have none of your cheek, young whipplesnooper!
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: norton canes 20 February, 2020, 10:10:33 AM
McNulty, that's incredibly poignant. I'm so glad you have those times to remember.


And coincidentally, a couple of this week's stories are themed around the bond between generations. Brink closes out with a real lump-in-the-throat scene, while Dredd's pathos is laced with a shot of sly humour. Congratulations Niemand and Jumb Foster, that depiction of Dredd's dinner might be a contender for panel of the year. (Oh and art error? What art error? Come on, we all get dressed and occasionally realise once we've left the house that we've put our t-shirts on inside out, don't we?)

However I'm sure we all agree, the main take away from this week's prog is that when it comes to speech balloons, black and red just don't mix. Hopefully the mouthy mawsteel will shortly undergo a change of vocal hue.
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: TordelBack 20 February, 2020, 01:01:08 PM
Some really lovely recollections there, McNulty, and I'm very sorry for your loss. I have to keep reminding myself that it was my own Dad (still just about with us) who bought me my first prog (292), and indeed all the '70s comics that gave little me an arguably-damaging lifelong addiction, as well as giving me access to his hoard of '50s Eagles. It seems so unlikely now that he was ever a comic reader, which just shows how current appearances can mislead even those who really should know better.
 
Grand prog this week, kicking off with a really great Robinson cover and another top-notch Niemand Dredd with Foster's Bollandish style on fleek (so very down with the kids of 2015). I'm particularly intrigued by this one because I used a very similar idea for a JD RPG campaign way back in the mid '80s*.

Brink's Hate Box finished strong, using the space that Tharg has given it to great and unusual effect. Abnett's other thrill Feral & Foe went up another notch for me: I hope some agreements are reached and both the new Tank and not-Stormbringer stick around.  Zaucer was Zaucer, which is no bad thing, but surprise Top Thrill for me this week was Proteus Vex, which has by now thoroughly won me over.






*The players started out as Cadets carrying out an investigation as a field training exercise under the supervision of none other than Judge Giant, immediately before Block Mania and Orlok intervened (making it look to the layers like the investigation was just a scene-setting device for a few Block War/Sov set-pieces as they struggled back to the Academy across the war-torn city after their hov-transporter was shot down by the residents of Tracey Ullman block), then re-encountering that abandoned case as full judges 5 years later years later (in the third or fourth adventure of the campaign) as part of a larger more sinister scheme. My plot then hared off in a different direction as I threw Proteus into the mix, with the team having to go back in time to the early days of Apocalypse War to gather vital evidence, avoiding nukes, Sentenoids and their younger selves... and that's one more good reason I'm not a writer!

: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: broodblik 20 February, 2020, 01:11:25 PM
5 out of 5

Dredd – A very good self-contained story with some great Bolland-like art by Tom Foster. 

Brink – A more emotional Filled ending to the current storyline. Cannot wait for Book 5. Brink is certainly one of AD’s best stories ever.

Zaucer – The real villain of the story has now come to the foreground. McCarty continues to thrill us with his art.

Proteus Vex – The story is getting some serious momentum and ends with an interesting twist at the end.

Feral and Foe – Should have been the highlight of the prog but the lettering made the whole story a stop-start affair. 
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: Proudhuff 20 February, 2020, 03:52:15 PM
Glad to see Dredd like the rest of us elsters can recall ridiculous details from decades ago but forgets how to get dressed in the mornings...

I'll start by suggesting age appropriate Prog: Anderson's menopause, Dredd's dementia, Zenith's anal prolapse...
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: paddykafka 21 February, 2020, 10:33:34 PM
It's been a while, but here are my thoughts on this week's prog.

Dredd: By far my most favourite story this week. The dark artstyle was very atmospheric and the writing was spot on. I enjoyed lots of elements of this story. Dredd brought the case up but left it to others to sift through the minutia in order to crack it. The use of the robot judges shows that Dredd is not above seeing their worth in certain areas. Dredd goes about his day while the painstaking process goes on. And in the end he isn't even in on the final bust. I really liked this story.

The Zaucer of Zilk: I like this colourful art and insane story. True, this is less of an action orientated episode, but enjoyable nonetheless.

Proteus Vex: This one has been harder to get into. Flint's art is excellent as always but the story is difficult to get into. However that is true of any original story when you have to balance universe building exposition, character motivations and action and drama from scratch. I can still find myself enjoying this but it will require re-reading.

Feral and Foe: Eight episodes in and I still can't emphasize with the primary characters. Frankly I can see Orsola's motivations a lot clearer than the other two. The art's great and I do like the story (been playing Warcraft for years now). So I will keep with it, unless it goes too far into Kingmaker territory.

Next prog we are getting the Regened takeover, which I wasn't in love with last time, but I will give it a chance.

I was especially fond of the Dredd story this week because it harked back to an earlier time in 2000AD's history. This was important for me because I lost my Dad last Sunday. It was Dad who introduced my family to 2000AD when it started back in the late 70s. I was a bit young for it then, I was only about 6 or 7, but I still remember the bionic stickers that came with prog 2 when it arrived. As the years went on I gradually started reading the progs that he would buy and eventually read the back progs he collected in earnest. Later my younger brother would read them as well. Happy memories included talks we had about things that Dredd, Rogue, Alpha and Slaine were doing that week, although my favourites of that time were more Robohunter and Ace Trucking. Eventually, the task of collecting the progs fell to me and it was one I was happy to continue. Dad would still read the progs but now he had to wait until I has read them. Even in later years when he was less fond of the newer stories and artstyles that were coming over, he still had good things to say about 2000AD. I can say that he read 2000AD right up until the end of his life. And for that I want to thank everyone at 2000AD for this shared memory.
I am going to keep reading 2000AD, mostly because I can still get enjoyment from the progs and partly because I want to keep those memories.

Sincere condolences to you on the loss of your father, McNulty. May he Rest in Peace.
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: JayzusB.Christ 22 February, 2020, 12:49:51 AM
Really sorry for your loss too, McNulty. Sounds like your dad was an absolute legend.
: Re: Prog 2169 - 43 Years of Blood, Sweat and Tears
: McNulty 25 February, 2020, 10:53:49 PM
Thank you to everyone. It really does mean a lot.