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Messages - Leigh S

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General / Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« on: 13 July, 2020, 09:23:24 PM »
That was a blast, though if you get Chris back, you must grill him on his 2000AD history (he sounds like a Prog 1er to me!).  Really good to get that insight into the Rogue tale and while I thnk of Chris Weston as a stalwart always about Droid, a quick trip to Wikipedia didnt show as many tales as I thought - especially Dredd, which speaks well of his impact ("To Thing with Love" is a top Ten Dredd for me!) 

Thanks Conrad - quite a coup, getting a creator in on the podcast. Have any others showed interest in taking part in future episodes? It was pretty great to hear Chris's perspective.

The winter special itself was bit disappointing although the Leny Henry interview was more interesting than I expected it to be. You didn't seem to notice the punchline in the Dredd strip where the 'Have a Lawful Xmas' sign becomes 'Have a awful Xmas', or maybe it too weak to mention.

Definitely missed it. I swear I'm sight gag blind sometimes! I've got another creator lined up, and it's something I'm definitely looking into doing more often. Maybe not as a regular episode, but there's definitely stuff to learn from people from Space Spinner's weird early 90s perspective!

Off Topic / Re: Threadjacking!
« on: 13 July, 2020, 09:18:37 PM »
ECBT2K baffles me  - I was an interested listener to begin with, more for Rich than the Mrs Browns Boys fellow who seemed very sure of his opinions and how right they all were.  Once Rich went, it became an intolerable downer to listen to.  I tried a podcast thing the other day and I presumed they were making some kind of sneery joke about affirmative action as their opening gambit, so that one didnt get far.  compare and contrast with Space Spinner or MCBC where they focus on the positive, and are happy to express their delight and disappointments n equal measure, annd I canp;t see who gets enjoyment listening to fellow "fans" pissing on the thing they still like enough to buy (if they aren't current readers, then the psychology boggles).

I can find a good chunk, perhaps more than I'd like, of current 2K to be personally underwhelming, and there is no harm in expressing that (God knows I'm not averse to pointing out why, for example, I have struggled with Rob Williams Dredds).  But to dedicate you efforts to a whole show that seems designed to undermine the thing it is about?  Curious behaviour!

General / Re: Avatar seems to be missing!
« on: 11 July, 2020, 08:38:56 PM »
Hadnt noticed mine had gone... lets see if it is possible to put it back

Prog / Re: Prog 2189 - Hunger Strike
« on: 10 July, 2020, 01:43:01 PM »
Tordelbakc summed up my feelings on Dredd but:

One thing I have noticed or rather how it feels is that the Dredd story is very much structured like the classic epics The Cursed Earth and The Judge Child. It contains smaller stories making up the bigger story and not one big event.

I think the problem is also partly this very thing - it is structured like those "episodic" Epics, but rather than the episodes being smaller chunks of a bigger threat/tale, the "scale" of each episode is set to 11, so there's a disconnect there where the Scale of the threat is set to huge, but it is dealt with like it was Dredd fighting some flying rats or an alien salesman?

General / Re: The comic that 2000AD killed
« on: 10 July, 2020, 12:53:03 PM »
Presumably if the last pre-Strike issue of Pink doesn't have "Great News For All Readers Inside" on it, that would be a good sign it was the one!

Website and Forum / Re: Spam, pornspam, and morespam
« on: 10 July, 2020, 12:44:21 PM »
Without wishing to sound paranoid, is it coincidence teh latest forum member is Sim.Bot!  :lol:

More seriously, how do they get by - thought you had to be granted privileges to post to stop that sort of thing?

Welcome to the board / Re: Cannot post or edit profile
« on: 08 July, 2020, 05:04:46 PM »

General / Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« on: 08 July, 2020, 03:58:56 PM »
erm, not sure Susan has fully got the point of the Spinnies....

General / Re: Space Spinner 2000AD
« on: 08 July, 2020, 03:55:32 PM »
My Spinnie votes go to...

Best Art: Colin MacNeil - This might be with hindsight, but he pips Bisley for me even if I vote with the knowledge of what Bisley Clones will do to the comic - he is but the First Simon of the Apocalypse! While I won't claim I had full insight into just how important an artist MacNeil would go on to be, it is super clear he is working from a love of the comic that Bisley is not.  Bisley's Slaine, Mebd, Naimh and Knucker may as well be different characters to what has gone before.  Meanwhile, Colin's turn on "John Cassavettes is dead" nails him as a primo Dredd artist at a time when the comic is trying out a lot of artists on Old Stoney Face with patchy success.

Best Writing: Wagner, for keeping Dredd interesting and hitting us wth world building strips such as Chopper and....others....

Best Overall Thrill: Slaine - might not have won the individuals their respective awards, but as a joint effort, the tension between Pat's high brow and Simon's low brow intentions works for the most part  and is more than the sum of its parts.

Best month: December  - once Chopper replaces the worthy but dull Rogue reboot with proper thrillpower, we have a run of progs that are as good as any in the comic's illustrious history.

Best Year: 1984 Gruddammit!   But of 87 to 89... better than 88, hits higher highs than 87, but is too patchy, so 1987.

MVP: Daily Star Dredd! When the comic floundered in the doldrum months, the inclusion of Daily Star Dredd at least soothed the completionist in me - Always saw these as akin to the lost 60s Doctor Who episodes, but with the ability of Tharg to bring them back from the grave that is the Daily Star! 

News / Re: mentions of 2000AD in the outside world
« on: 05 July, 2020, 09:42:22 PM »
Have just been forced to watch "The Dirt" (DEATH TO FALSE METAL!) and in an early scene showing a young Nikki Sixx, he is wearing the classic Titan Judge Death/Judge Mortis  "You have been judged..." T-shirt!  Sadly the scene in question is set in 1978 so the entire film was runed for me without me even ahving to bring my hatred for the Crue into the equation, much to the annoyance of my wife, who did not appreciate me pointing out the anachronistic T shirt and the many and various reasons this was ALL WRONG.... it was like "Almost Famous" and Joni Mitchell's Blue / Cortez the Killer all over again.....

Help! / Re: Help me Hive Mind, you're my only hope...
« on: 01 July, 2020, 07:58:36 PM »
Gah - lost half of that quote


That was the cliffhanger of the first episode.  I suspect Lalia screwed up the art

As in screwed up by not drawing Stonehenge?

Help! / Re: Help me Hive Mind, you're my only hope...
« on: 01 July, 2020, 07:50:56 PM »
More evidence  - this from the Judge Dredd Mega History book:

The basic plot concerned an eerie guy - Britains last hanginng Judge - who, along witha young companion, comes across illegal black magic practices being carried out at a place like Stonehenge. The Judge recognises the man at the centre or the ritual as someone he had previously sentenced to death.

"As for the original hanging judge sttory, the only trace is a brief entry in the 2000AD Make-Up book Prog 1-44 which relates to a four page Mills script (for which he was paid £30) calle "Black Magic: Judge Dread Original Installment One", and was drawn by Argentine artist Horacio Lalia. A Pencilled entry reads Unsuitable  - maybe except in Annual.

From Thrill Power Overload

(again Pat quoted)

It featured a vampiric hanging judge called Dread who leads occult investigations. The first story had something nasty going on a t Stonehenge.  Judge Dread recognises the leader of teh Satanists. "The last time I saw him was at teh Old Bailey, when I sentenced him to hang by his neck until dead".

Help! / Re: Help me Hive Mind, you're my only hope...
« on: 01 July, 2020, 07:31:23 PM »
I mean the penultimate panel of page 4 has the guy say to JD "You look like you've seen a ghost" to which JD replies "perhaps I have, perhaps I have..."

a complete set up line for him then to say "For I saw that  man hang not 10 years ago!"  instead of "that man looks evil, dont trust him"

He is Mr Morden on page 4...


On page 5, he then says the guy IS undead, so go figure! (He is also immediiately changed his name to Arnot La Gross!)

Page 5 itself appears to have some major bodging going on to - the giant pic of Dr Sin vs the shrunken image of the guy meeting the Lord and some weird lines and a missing speech bubble inexpertly removed that suggest there may have been a logo and such excised? 

Help! / Re: Help me Hive Mind, you're my only hope...
« on: 01 July, 2020, 07:16:45 PM »
Definteily written and for my money, Dr Sin is 100% Judge DreAd, (or would be if Pat Mills himself had confirmed it rather than sitting on the fence!)


Judge Dread is a story confirmed to be drawn by Lalia.  The first 4 pages of the Dr Sin strip are by Lalia, then another artist comes in to finish off the story abruptly and to art bodge certain features on the earlier pages, talking of which:

The original Judge Dread tale opened with a chap being shown his brother's body in a mortuary, only to question "Where is my brother's head??" Dr Sin opens similarly, but it is the brothers hand that is missing - note though, that the art is bodged and the later artist has drawn the head on the corpse - there is no sign of a missing hand as they are still covered by the shroud and the guy is looking at where teh head is/should be.

The original JD story sees the guy meet up with Judge Dread, and they go off and disrupt a satanic ritual at Stonehenge/a Stone Circle.  This plays out exactly other than it not being Stonehenge - it's this point that Pat got hung up on when he was asked about the strip, as he is adamant that he scripted it to be Stonehenge (though whether that translated to a foreign artist?  Maybe didnnt get the reference or did not ahve the reference so fudged it?  Maybe art bodged to make it somewhere more generic)

The original JD story then has them visit a local lord and cliffhangers the end of part 1 when Judge Dread recognises the lord as a man who he had seen hang years previously.  Here same story plays out, but rather than JD saying he recognises the guy as a dead man, he gets all shook up about seeing him, but then in the final panel says something bland like "I sense he is a bit of a rum one" - this makes no sense of the dramatic way it is drawn as it if it a massive cliffhangery revelation.

The rest of the story is then by a different artist, calls the characters by different names and gerally just wraps it all up very abruptly.

If this ISNT Judge Dread, then I await a better explanation for Lalia drawing just 4 pages of a story that follows the story beats of the original Judge Dread to the letter, and why the other artist had to draw a head on that corpse!

"That's not Stonehenge" doesnt really cut it for me as enough weight against the rest of the evidence

Was Doctor Sin the character originally called Judge Dredd, before Mills leant that name to some other character?
No. "Judge Dread" was going to be about an undead English hanging judge. Never written, AFAIK.

General / Re: FINAL - Dan Abnett or Pat Mills - For the Godpleton Cup
« on: 01 July, 2020, 06:56:19 PM »
Pat Mills

much as I love Brink, and am thankful for Abnett providing some diverting material when the comic needed to keep me hopeful, it isnt Nemesis, or Slaine, or ABC Warriors, or even (since a lot of this seems to swing on Pats more recent output for a lot of people) Defoe or savage. 

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