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General Chat => Games => : Link Prime 26 June, 2017, 05:42:37 PM

: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Link Prime 26 June, 2017, 05:42:37 PM
Something else you don't need, but desperately want; http://gizmodo.com/the-super-nintendo-classic-edition-arrives-with-21-game-1796419063

I was lucky enough to get a NES Mini last year, and although it is the embodiment of nostalgia-cool, I will admit I've only played it about 5 times.

Nevertheless, I will try to get this too.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Greg M. 26 June, 2017, 05:49:48 PM
The original SNES is still, for my money, the greatest console ever. Some pretty good games in the line-up of this edition too - Secret of Mana, Link to the Past, Earthbound, Super Metroid, Final Fantasy III / VI, Super Mario Kart (of course.) Shame no Chronotrigger though.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Link Prime 26 June, 2017, 05:55:13 PM
Shame no Chronotrigger though.

As per your recommendation, I've been planning to get that- patiently waiting for the Virtual Console version on the Switch.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Greg M. 26 June, 2017, 07:01:27 PM
Hope you enjoy it when it emerges out of the time vortex - it remains my favourite game ever. If you like classic JRPGs, you won't be disappointed.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: IndigoPrime 26 June, 2017, 08:23:04 PM
They'll make about 11 of the things and they'll be sold out instantly, if that NES Mini is anything to go by.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 26 June, 2017, 08:52:10 PM
Looks cute, but I'd be much more excited about news regarding Virtual Console for Switch...

This thing not being portable means that I'd never play it.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Michael Knight 26 June, 2017, 09:18:31 PM
looks good but wondering if I will be able to actually purchase one this time, based on experience of Classic NES re-release last year
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: The Monarch 26 June, 2017, 09:45:20 PM
It also includes star fox 2 a game that never even got released like at all!
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Michael Knight 26 June, 2017, 09:59:51 PM
Star Fox 2 ive never even heard of. This could clinch the deal for me. That and the classic F-Zero!
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Radbacker 27 June, 2017, 08:05:34 AM
Well not too many games on it but that RPG goodness and Super Metroid are 100's of hours of gameplay alone.  And we get the classic Japan/euro/oz styling.  Like everyone else commented now to actually get hold of one

CU Radbacker
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Link Prime 27 June, 2017, 09:12:45 AM
It's not looking good.

I missed the Amazon UK pre-order window, and Game.co.uk seemed to have crashed last night.
They no longer have pre-orders available either.

I did manage to get a pre-order registered on Smyths.ie last night, but can't recall using Smyths before so don't know if I can trust it will be fulfilled.
Smyths Ireland / UK also no longer have a pre-order option available at the moment, but they were selling it for the cheapest I've seen so far (£70 / €85).
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Keef Monkey 27 June, 2017, 09:19:39 AM
Still not sure why these retro minis generate so much excitement, you can set up a Retropie with a SNES controller for next to nothing and stick as many SNES games as you want on it. 

It does look nice mind you (at least the European one does, the US SNES could never match its beauty).
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Link Prime 27 June, 2017, 09:48:40 AM
Apart from the nostalgic and aesthetic appeal they have one other major selling point; they're manufactured by Nintendo.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: JamesC 27 June, 2017, 10:51:51 AM
Are you sure Amazon are out of stock? I can't even find the product page so am dubious as to whether they've accepted orders yet.
I've registered interest on the Nintendo store so hopefully they'll email me when they're taking orders.

I'm not going to lose sleep if I can't get hold of one though. I find all this forced rarity and hype management a bit off-putting.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Link Prime 27 June, 2017, 11:08:43 AM
The Amazon UK pre-order option was mentioned on a few websites yesterday evening James, e.g.; https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/26/15875482/nintendo-snes-classic-mini-console-amazon-uk-preorder-pricing
It was closed by the time I got round to checking.

Nintendo are reportedly manufacturing a significantly higher volume of the SNES Mini's compared to the NES Mini's so there's a chance availability will be more widespread than it currently seems come September.
Could be they realized they shot themselves in the foot by not recognizing the potential demand for this type of console previously (the NES Mini is officially discontinued), and are ready to churn these out.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: IndigoPrime 27 June, 2017, 11:11:34 AM
I've no idea what the thinking was with the NES Mini. They could still be cranking them out NOW and making a tidy profit on the things. Odd.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Pyroxian 27 June, 2017, 11:14:02 AM
Still not sure why these retro minis generate so much excitement, you can set up a Retropie with a SNES controller for next to nothing and stick as many SNES games as you want on it. 

I wouldn't say next to nothing - It cost me about £100 for a PI, plus all the gubbins and two decent SNES USB controllers. And after all that, I still can't get it to save games properly, so can't really play any RPGs  on it :( Easier to just get the old SNES out of the attic :D

My PI is great as a MAME machine though. I'm considering building it into my X-Arcade stick so I just have a self-contained Arcade console.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Link Prime 27 June, 2017, 11:14:46 AM
I've no idea what the thinking was with the NES Mini. They could still be cranking them out NOW and making a tidy profit on the things. Odd.

In a nutshell;
They didn't realize how popular it would be.
They were busy with the Switch launch.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: SIP 27 June, 2017, 01:41:07 PM
The nostalgia of old games machines is always more appealing than actually playing the games.

The SNES is my most fondly remembered games machine, and I instantly want to buy this DESPITE still owning my old snes and all of the games that are on this. Besides that I have a great snes emulator on my pc with every snes game ever released.

The reality however is that I put something like secret of mana on (one of my favourite games) or chrono trigger, play it for abot 15 minutes, then go back to something like PS4 Skyrim, or Fallout, or Doom, or Tomb Raider.  I loved F Zero and played it for hours and hours, but it doesn't exactly stand up by today's standards.

The games that fare the best are the platform games. Those games can still play as well today (super ghouls is great) or the side scrolling shooters (super probotector). But they can be fiendishly difficult and very frustrating. Over the last couple of decades games have become almost childishly easy in comparison to snes games.

Anyway, nostalgia, it's not what it used to be.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: JamesC 27 June, 2017, 03:06:21 PM
My favourite retro machines are my Megadrive and my Speccy. Both of which are great for firing up for quick blasts of arcadey fun.
While Super Mario World and Secret of Mana are great games, I just don't have the time or inclination to play through them.
If I get one of these Snes minis my most played games will be Kirby's Dream Course, Mario Kart and Super Punch Out.
(Having said that, I also have all of those games on original cart. maybe I won't bother with one of these new ones after all.)
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: IndigoPrime 27 June, 2017, 03:39:09 PM
It's notable that although I've written for well over 100 issues of Retro Gamer (along with retro stuff for Edge, games™ and M!), and thoroughly enjoyed doing so, dealing with the actual games has often been a slog. Most of them simply don't hold up. The stories are often interesting, but the games are, by modern standards, bloody awful.

There are exceptions, of course. I'll still happily play the original Boulder Dash, a small selection of arcade games (Robotron; Defender; Tempest; Bubble Bobble; and so on), and the truly superb Stunt Car Racer. But even many classics of the day just don't hold up. Same as any media, really.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 27 June, 2017, 05:28:23 PM
Still not sure why these retro minis generate so much excitement, you can set up a Retropie with a SNES controller for next to nothing and stick as many SNES games as you want on it. 

Imo it's because emulators just don't offer the same experience. For one thing, the controllers on this thing will be authentic and perfect, not some cheap knock-off. Also, every emulator I've ever used has been glitchy as hell, with sudden crashes, inconsistent frame rates, input lag, graphical and audio bugs etc (especially running the likes of Star Fox, Mario Kart and Yoshi's Island). They also tend to have universally ugly, and poorly designed UIs. I've always had to juggle between various emus to see which runs which game better. There's a lot to be said for having everything in a neat, streamlined and beautifully presented package and a smooth, polished UI experience, not to mention the aesthetic, tactile appeal of the unit itself.

The nostalgia of old games machines is always more appealing than actually playing the games.

The SNES is my most fondly remembered games machine, and I instantly want to buy this DESPITE still owning my old snes and all of the games that are on this. Besides that I have a great snes emulator on my pc with every snes game ever released.

The reality however is that I put something like secret of mana on (one of my favourite games) or chrono trigger, play it for abot 15 minutes, then go back to something like PS4 Skyrim, or Fallout, or Doom, or Tomb Raider.  I loved F Zero and played it for hours and hours, but it doesn't exactly stand up by today's standards.

The games that fare the best are the platform games. Those games can still play as well today (super ghouls is great) or the side scrolling shooters (super probotector). But they can be fiendishly difficult and very frustrating. Over the last couple of decades games have become almost childishly easy in comparison to snes games.

Anyway, nostalgia, it's not what it used to be.

I'm with you up to a point, and that point is the 16 bit era. Even the NES - probably the most universally beloved console ever made - to my mind only has a handful of titles that hold up today (Mario 3, basically). Without the rose-tinted spectacles (I never owned a NES), even apparently iconic games like Mega Man 2, Duck Tales and the original Zelda I personally find pretty much tedious and unplayable now.

I think the SNES is a different beast though. Just look at the lineup of titles for this thing; Mega Man X, A Link to the Past, Super Mario World, Final Fantasy III (VI), Street Fighter II Turbo, Super Metroid, Contra III (Super Probotector), Yoshi's Island...

These are phenomenal games by any standard. And it's not just nostalgia saying this - for example, I've only really properly played Super Metroid, Mega Man X and Yoshi's Island in the last five years and they hold up superbly. Imo, these games offer a much deeper and more satisfying experience than anything on the NES (which I would argue offers more of an occasional five minute blast of nostalgia).
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: IndigoPrime 27 June, 2017, 05:53:08 PM
I suspect it to some extent depends on your era, though, and how likely someone is to allow for creaky visuals. Robotron, for example, remains one of the very best twin-stick shooters, but it looks basic and is hard and nails. Would it appeal to that many people who weren't there at the time? And the same's probably true of quite a lot of SNES fare.

The platformers, though, tend to have a kind of timeless quality about them, as, to some extent, do the RPGs. I can't imagine that many kids having a lot of fun with F-Zero, though, despite how ground-breaking it was at the time.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Greg M. 27 June, 2017, 06:05:09 PM
I suspect it to some extent depends on your era, though, and how likely someone is to allow for creaky visuals.

I'd argue that artistically-speaking, SNES titles hold up surprisingly well - the best of them have a level of pixellated charm that dates them far less than, say, most PS1 or N64 titles. Not every SNES game is great, of course, but the sheer volume of timeless titles the console has to offer is unprecedented and remarkable. The likes of Super Metroid and Link to the Past are about as expertly designed as games get.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 27 June, 2017, 06:15:52 PM
I suspect it to some extent depends on your era, though, and how likely someone is to allow for creaky visuals. Robotron, for example, remains one of the very best twin-stick shooters, but it looks basic and is hard and nails. Would it appeal to that many people who weren't there at the time? And the same's probably true of quite a lot of SNES fare.

The platformers, though, tend to have a kind of timeless quality about them, as, to some extent, do the RPGs. I can't imagine that many kids having a lot of fun with F-Zero, though, despite how ground-breaking it was at the time.

To some extent, yes, but I still maintain that games reached a much higher level of sophistication in the SNES era, and hold up far better as a result. I think a large part of that is the wider implementation of the battery backup, which allowed proper saving (rather than having to type in passwords), which allowed for games that were much richer home console experiences and less arcadey and trial and error by design. Definitely agree on platformers and RPGs having aged the best, though - can't imagine anyone having much fun with something like Star Fox coming to it fresh nowadays.

On your example of F Zero, tbh I always found it quite basic even at the time. It was essentially a proof of concept for (the far superior) Mario Kart, in any case, whereas I totally have seen my young relatives playing and enjoying stuff like Super Mario World. And there's a solid case for A Link to the Past being the pinnacle of the Zelda series - it's not just fueled by nostalgia.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Third Estate Ned 27 June, 2017, 07:02:25 PM
I'm really pleased this has finally been announced. I've been searching for it every week since the rumours started and I've put a deposit down on Gamestop for one already. Sure, nostalgia plays a part in the enjoyment but I wouldn't be forking out €80 for nostalgia alone. The lineup of games fills me with joy, especially Ghouls 'n' Ghosts and Castlevania being in the list. As a teenage fool I sold my SNES and all the games for something like a quid each to a second hand shop to get beer money.

I understand the lukewarm response from some of the gamers here but I haven't played video games with any kind of dedication since the first Playstation and I'm not looking to catch up with anything immersive or groundbreaking. I just want 20 mins of what I remember being loads of fun to plug in and play after work.

No complaints whatsoever about the lineup but just for fun, if I could choose, I would exchange one of the RPGs for Zombies Ate My Neighbors or Smash Tennis, two-player games both.

Does anyone know what the deal is with paid pre-orders if the stock doesn't meet the demand, or has anyone dealt with Gamestop before in this respect?

: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 27 June, 2017, 07:29:04 PM
There's an extra level of complication for me trying to get one, as I'm based in the US but ideally want a UK model, the US SNES being the bizarrely ugly, boxy, mauve monstrosity that it is.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: JamesC 27 June, 2017, 08:49:30 PM
I really hope people give Kirby's Dream Course a go and don't just see it as filler.
It's a really fun, inventive game that's great with 2 players and really rewards experimentation and practice.
I bought it really cheap in a Woolworths sale and it turned out to be one of my most loved games on the system. I'm very pleasantly surprised to see it included.

F Zero was always cack though. They should've swapped it out for Pilot Wings.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 27 June, 2017, 10:24:14 PM
Kirby is one of my Nintendo blindspots - never really played any of them.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: SIP 27 June, 2017, 10:26:50 PM
Eeeeesh.  Pilot wings is not a good game,  at all, and I would certainly say F zero kicks super mario karts ass all the way.  Mario Kart came into its own on the game cube, then became a true great on Wii.

As for nostalgia driving this, all I would say is that I've been a hard core gamer all of my life and still own my atari 2600, commodore 64, commodore amiga 500 and 1200, my snes, my dream cast, n64, game cube, ps1, 2, 3, 4, Xbox, 360 and a pc with a healthy volume of steam games and emulators.  I have given both my kids a good amount of exposure to "retro gaming", and despite the rose tinted spectacles and insistence by me that a lot of these older games are my all time favourites, I have a 9 year old and a 12 year old who look at me with an expression of bemusement that says "nah".

It is nostalgia.
There are great ideas here, but the reality is that it's all being done a lot better nowadays. I love some of these games, give me defender, armalyte, chaos engine, gods, speedball 2, street fighter 2 turbo, secret of mana, midnight resistance, golden axe and the MIGHTY Turrican 2 - I LOVE them, but then I'm completely biased and have emotions invested in what those games meant to me at that given time. You won't find many modern children sacrificing another go on the latest multi million dollar incredible console game for just one more go at wizball!

As I said, I'm not rubbishing the games, but most of them are pretty crude by modern standards. I appreciate that it was this very invention that lay the foundations for what comes now, but Street fighter 2 doesn't really compare to injustice 2, secret of mana doesn't top skyrim and Alien breed isn't quite gears of war.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: SIP 27 June, 2017, 10:30:22 PM
But....... I wish ps4 would put the other two super star wars games up for sale. I enjoyed playing through the first one again on ps4 with the unlimited saves that curbed the frustration of the original snes game. Make super empire!
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: JamesC 27 June, 2017, 10:36:59 PM
Cube and Wii Mario Karts are the worst ones!

I think retro games on the whole are a very different experience to modern games with, for the most part, a very different focus. There's much more emphasis on arcade fun, repetition and pattern learning and far less emphasis on narrative and world building. RPGs are the exceptions (but I never really played them).
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: SIP 27 June, 2017, 10:42:32 PM
Cube and Wii Mario Karts are the worst ones!

NNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

One of the few "retro games*" I have actually had countless hours of fun with my kids is Wii Mario Kart. It's absolutely great!

Snes Mario Kart by contrast is an overly busy mode 7 mess that they wouldn't entertain for more than a couple of minutes. F zero made the action full screen and didn't over clutter. The payoff was it was single player.

*though I'm not sure if Wii really counts as retro.....games such as mario galaxy look like they could be released next week and still do well in competition with other current games.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: SIP 27 June, 2017, 10:50:27 PM
There's much more emphasis on arcade fun, repetition and pattern learning and far less emphasis on narrative and world building.

Which I think is where the nostalgia kicks in. Not many kids would agree with us that "repetition and pattern learning" really sound like much fun.

Old games were difficult because they were either really short, or just repeated the same thing over and over with perhaps varying attack patterns or speed. New games are more sophisticated, game players are more sophisticated. If this stuff would still sell then they would just re package it. Truth is modern gamers would just think it was rubbish.

I'm guessing Nintendo is making these things in limited numbers as it is only catering to people over 40. Super star wars did not sell well on the ps4 - that's why there will be no super empire.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: SIP 27 June, 2017, 10:56:25 PM
I sit here writing with a wired up snes only 6 feet away. It's been set up for the last few weeks (when I got the nostalgia bug and got it out of the cupboard). I played it for maybe an hour, the kids had a quick go. In those 3 weeks they didn't come back to it once....but I can't get them off their 3ds consoles. I couldnt sell them on zelda, mana, probotector, ghouls n ghosts, Yoshi, street fighter, mario or the adventures of batman and robin.

If the games are so great then why aren't they interested? Same reason they aren't as mesmerised by films I would have thought incredible back in the 1980s - they were good for the time, but by modern standards, it all just looks a little creaky.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: JamesC 27 June, 2017, 11:14:03 PM
I suppose it partly comes down to what you're used to and what you expect. If you pick up Ghouls n Ghosts ad expect it to be a similar experience to some modern 3D game you're going to be disappointed.
That's no reflection on the game itself though, it's just that the player hasn't got what they expected.
The comparison with films is interesting. I used to enjoy watching old films when I was a kid - particularly old black and white B movies or anything with stop motion monsters. Most of my friends thought they were crap though - old and boring compared to modern films. Fair enough I suppose, but I always thought they were missing out.
People often comment that retro games can't compete because they're short and unsophisticated. I find it hard to understand that criticism. You have to appreciate the old style games on their own terms. If I play a Speccy game, I'll probably play through for 20 or 30 mins before switching to another game. But that's fine, that's how I always played those games (probably informed by my time in arcades going from game to game with a credit or two in each). I don't know why that short burst of fun is somehow less legitimate than a 2 hour session on Skyrim.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 27 June, 2017, 11:23:59 PM
Not many kids would agree with us that "repetition and pattern learning" really sound like much fun.

What is Call of Duty if not repetitive?

Broadly, I agree - I think retrogaming is mostly about nostalgia. I think the vast majority of old games don't hold up. But I also think - as with movies - there are a handful of titles that are genuinely timeless - and a good deal of them are in this 21 game bundle.

You won't find many Metroid fans who rank any of the subsequent 2D games above Super Metroid. I personally think there hasn't been a 2D Mario title since Super Mario World that can hold a candle to it. I like some films that I know objectively are not well made purely because of how much I loved them when I was a kid. Plenty of games too. And I think I'm perfectly capable of discerning how much nostalgia is playing a part in my enjoyment of them and how much is down to clever design and brilliant art direction.

If this stuff would still sell then they would just re package it.
Which they do. Constantly. Especially Nintendo, who understand the quality of their back catalogue. As a counter to your example, a colleague of mine is currently playing through Super Metroid and loving it. He had barely been born when it was released and has no nostalgia for the 16 bit era.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Satanist 28 June, 2017, 08:58:27 AM
Fucking raging at this pre-order bullshit. Signed on with Nintendo for notification, don't get one and then its sold out in 15 mins.

Its almost as if they would rather I just pirate the stuff.

Oh and Mario Kart on snes is the best thanks to the feather jump.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: SIP 28 June, 2017, 09:16:50 AM
I think I may be guilty of poorly articulating my opinion here.

I love old computer games, no games of the last 10-15 years have held the same wonderment or joy than the endless days I tried to save Eris from Damocles, or impressed me as much as the animated intro to Shadow of the Beast 2. I sat, literally, for 12 hours straight each time playing ikari warriors, midnight resistance and golden axe with my brothers. Street fighter 2 took up an entire Christmas holiday. I get it. I'm a man with an unhealthy level of nostalgia. I won't part with a single one of my 1978 Kenner Star wars figures.....they are the greatest toys i ever had, but I won't kid myself that the quality of modern toys isn't infinitely superior.

Put some modern children in front of these games and at best they will get some VERY short lived moderate amusement. There are exceptions of course, my son loves Turrican 2 and super ghouls and ghosts, as i pointed out earlier some of the side scrolling stuff (such as metroid) fair better, but in the main the overwhelming response is "meh".

These games were state of the art when we originally played them, but the vast majority, by modern standards, do not stand up.

I grew up with lou ferigno hulk, Linda Carter wonder woman and spider man TV movies. I enjoyed them at the time and have fond memories, but modern kids have Civil War, The Avengers, Iron Man. They just laugh at old TV shows. And to be fair, they look as shoddy as hell now. Even ground breaking genius such as the original star wars films look sedate next to modern films (obviously nothing is better than star wars though.....modern kids are stupid).

If I put super mario kart snes on for a modern child I'm afraid they wouldn't give it two minutes without declaring it complete rubbish. Why on earth would they play that when they can play on a Nintendo switch? And in the main, I'd have to agree with them.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: JamesC 28 June, 2017, 10:57:02 AM
As one of the organisers of a gaming festival in Norwich I think you'd be surprised at how popular our retro area is.
We choose the games quite carefully (more arcadey stuff as that's the nature of the event) and people are always queuing. This year we could hardly get people off Crash Bandicoot, Snes Mario Kart (this and Street Fighter 2 seem to be the most popular of our selection) and Sonic 2.
We also have a couple of multi-game cabinets with a good selection of old arcade games on them.
Younger kids seem to really connect with games which have simpler controls. The appeal of Pacman as a game for mums to play with younger children can't be underestimated - it's so easy to explain and to understand the objective and controls of the game.
This year we also had a guy running a retro home computer area. He had kids queuing up to play Snapper on the BBC Micro (and competing for high scores)! 
I realise there's an element of novelty in all of this but in the right context these games can still entertain.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: IndigoPrime 28 June, 2017, 11:04:25 AM
My take on media is that for older stuff to still be viable, it needs to have at least some of the sophistication of modern fare, along with offering a kind of timeless quality that enables you to get past how crude it is. With telly, much of what we watched as kids was, frankly, shite. Some movies do well despite (or in some cases because of) their lack of modern production values.

Gaming's a very different thing, because in the early days everything was so basic – arguably far more even than early film or television. And although games evolved rapidly, they have on many occasions been overly reliant on technology, and almost 'enforcing' a kind of approach when certain technological innovations happened. Remember when the PlayStation appeared, and everything suddenly 'had' to be in 3D? Disaster for certain genres.

There are games that stand the test of time, and it's great to hear people in this thread have kids into some old games. (Another person I know said their young kids are totally obsessed by Bubble Bobble in MAME, thereby showing they have great taste!) But even with the greatest old games, you often have to look past their presentation, and for some the difficulty levels will also be too much. (Another friend noted on Facebook recently he's interested in the SNES Mini because the games his daughter plays no longer teach you that you can fail. And this is a good point. Most modern fare lets you keep going and going until you finish something. It's about bludgeoning your way through a game rather than learning strategies to beat it.)

The appeal of Pacman as a game for mums to play with younger children
Ms. Pac-Man is one of those cabs I will have when I'm rich and famous. Such a great game. (Although finally improved upon with CE on Xbox. But it took a bloody long time to get there.)
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: SIP 28 June, 2017, 11:30:20 AM
All good points chaps. Maybe my kids are just philistines! Ha ha.

Bubble Bobble IS a stone cold classic, though I may have driven my mother crazy with the music 6 hours a day.

Another interesting avenue for retro gamers in recent years is the rise of modern games deliberately designed to look retro, such as bro force and undertale.  Oddly enough these will keep my kids attention.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: IndigoPrime 28 June, 2017, 11:39:39 AM
I find it amusing that pixel art is a style. Of course, back in the day it was just videogame art, and everyone was thrilled when resolutions jumped (not least when those first Amiga pictures appeared, which were jaw-dropping to those with 8-bit machines). Also, CRTs of the time blurred the pixels anyway, and savvy developers utilised this to smooth edges, or using refresh rates and colour-swapping to increase a system's palette.

That said, I do like chunky pixels myself, and there's something satisfying in visuals where you know every single pixel's position has been considered.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Satanist 28 June, 2017, 12:27:42 PM
My son (12) is obsessed with Chrono Trigger on DS and wants this for the RPGs, esp Earthbound and Mana. I really think it depends on the child as mine have been taught that gameplay trumps graphics every time.  :D
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Satanist 29 June, 2017, 12:41:26 PM
Pre-orders are live at Argos...and relax  :)
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Tiplodocus 10 July, 2017, 06:57:45 PM
I do hope these things aren't delaying the Virtual Console. It'd be a pain to have to wait for an N64 Classic and a GameCube classic before I can buy stuff on me Switch.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: The Enigmatic Dr X 10 July, 2017, 08:56:20 PM
So pissed off that these pre-orders came and went while I was on holiday
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: JamesC 10 July, 2017, 09:02:10 PM
There's an online stock checker which will send you an alert when someone has stock. Argos had some at 0730 this morning.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: JLC 10 July, 2017, 11:19:43 PM
One of those things that a lot of people will buy then, couple months later will be gathering dust on top of the wardrobe
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Third Estate Ned 11 July, 2017, 08:16:32 PM
Depends on how much people a willing to shell out for what they view as a short-term novelty. I had this doubt at the back of my mind after I hit the "pay now" button because I couldn't justify the expense if I'd only be using it for a couple of months. But I don't think it will be gathering dust soon (providing the pre-order is upheld).

As someone who never buys current games or consoles, the cost would be a motivator in getting the most out of it after the novelty/nostalgic thrill has worn off. Second, look at the list of games included. There are games that have massive replay value, as well as those which give back the more you put in (Zelda, Mana). I personally could play Super Ghouls 'n' Ghosts again and again for the foreseeable future.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 22 August, 2017, 05:11:45 PM
Managed to get one pre-ordered last night. Hoping to flip it on eBay when it arrives and buy a UK PAL version from another eBay scalper with the proceeds...

Yes, it's silly, but the US SNES is so damn ugly.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: The Enigmatic Dr X 22 August, 2017, 07:04:41 PM
I managed to order one from a Game store. £50 deposit! Not sure whether to scalp it or keep it. So torn.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Link Prime 22 August, 2017, 10:44:01 PM
Yes, it's silly, but the US SNES is so damn ugly.


Pffffft...typical Radiator whinging...

< Googles American SNES Transformer Scrotum >

Jesus.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 14 September, 2017, 06:54:45 PM
Yes, it's silly, but the US SNES is so damn ugly.


Pffffft...typical Radiator whinging...

< Googles American SNES Transformer Scrotum >

Jesus.

I've had arguments with Americans about it. There's no getting around it, the PAL SNES/Super Famicom is a design classic and the US SNES is a monstrosity. It doesn't even have the primary colour face button motif, they're all garish shades of mauve. Even the US SNES cartridges are boxy and ugly.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Third Estate Ned 29 September, 2017, 12:59:20 PM
I have it in my hands, it really is mini. I can't wait to plug it in tonight but first impressions are that it looks great, aesthetically.

P.S. I hate innuendo.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Satanist 29 September, 2017, 02:44:48 PM
Got mine and have mates coming round for some Mario Kart and Beer tonight, its just like old times  :D

Mrs is away this weekend so will start on Marioworld tomorrow.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: James Stacey 29 September, 2017, 03:34:28 PM
Mine is in hand. What an awesome looking little fellah he is too. So glad we got the proper super famicom design not the dog ugly colonial one.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 29 September, 2017, 05:51:38 PM
Mine is in hand. What an awesome looking little fellah he is too. So glad we got the proper super famicom design not the dog ugly colonial one.

Yep. I've ordered a PAL one from a seller in Germany. Hoping I can sell my US one to cover the cost. It means having to wait another couple of weeks, but worth it.

Are the UK/European versions of games included - ie Super Probotector instead of Contra III?
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: JamesC 29 September, 2017, 06:15:40 PM
Mine is in hand. What an awesome looking little fellah he is too. So glad we got the proper super famicom design not the dog ugly colonial one.

Yep. I've ordered a PAL one from a seller in Germany. Hoping I can sell my US one to cover the cost. It means having to wait another couple of weeks, but worth it.

Are the UK/European versions of games included - ie Super Probotector instead of Contra III?

All US versions. On the box the U.K. titles are beneath the US titles in very small writing and in brackets. That's the only nod to the PAL versions that I can see.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 29 September, 2017, 06:27:41 PM
Mine is in hand. What an awesome looking little fellah he is too. So glad we got the proper super famicom design not the dog ugly colonial one.

Yep. I've ordered a PAL one from a seller in Germany. Hoping I can sell my US one to cover the cost. It means having to wait another couple of weeks, but worth it.

Are the UK/European versions of games included - ie Super Probotector instead of Contra III?

All US versions. On the box the U.K. titles are beneath the US titles in very small writing and in brackets. That's the only nod to the PAL versions that I can see.

Cool. Interesting that the PAL version technically has two more 'never released' games in addition to Star Fox 2, as Earthbound and Final Fantasy III/IV were never released on the SNES in Europe!
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 29 September, 2017, 06:29:44 PM
What's also cool is that these are all presumably the NTSC versions of the games. Easy to forget that most of the versions of these games we played back in the day ran %17(?) slower, often with black bars at the top and bottom of the screen.

I imagine that the speed really changes the way they play, especially something like Star Fox.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: JamesC 29 September, 2017, 06:48:25 PM
I'd have to play more of the games to see if the increased speed really jumps out at me. Star Fox doesn't seem any faster but maybe the speed was always limited by the processor on this anyway? It's been awhile since I played the original so hard to judge really.
Super Ghouls and Ghosts looks lovely (I still think the Megadrive version plays better but that's a whole other conversation!) and Contra will be fun with 2 players.
I still have my old SNES but this is more convenient to play on the big telly in the lounge.

I urge anyone reading this to give some time to Kirby's Dream Course. It's a hard game to describe but is really excellent, especially with 2 players. My friends and I spent many, many hours on this in the 90s.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 29 September, 2017, 06:58:30 PM
Contra III is so damn awesome, and unlike a lot of contemporary platform/action games (coughSuper Ghouls and Ghosts cough Super Castlevania IV), isn't punishingly difficult and frustrating to play.

IIRC it's fairly easy to blow through on 'easy' mode with the life count maxed out, while 'normal' offers a more substantial challenge.

I'll have to check out Dream Course - I don't think I've ever really played a Kirby game before.

I'm really looking forward to playing through SMW and Yoshi's Island again, and will be taking it into the office for some multiplayer Mario Kart/Street Fighter II action.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: JamesC 29 September, 2017, 07:11:47 PM
Dream Course has a Kirby veneer but isn't really linked to the core Kirby games. It's a sort of crazy golf thing with puzzle and action elements. It's really unique and rewards experimentation.

I really want to put some time aside to play through A Link to the Past and Super Metroid again. I've played both and still have my SM big box with guide (I paid £19.99 for it on special offer in Boots. It's worth a lot more now!) I still play quite a lot of retro games but it tends to be in short bursts - more arcadey stuff. The convenience of this mini unit with its save point feature means I should be able to play these games in decent size chunks on the main telly. Lovely stuff.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: The Monarch 01 October, 2017, 11:57:18 AM
super mario rpg was never released here either

but yeah somehow my mom and my bro managed to get me one for my birthday
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Tiplodocus 02 October, 2017, 09:31:49 AM
It was all night Mario Kart and Bomberman sessions at a mate in Stevenage that got me into games but as a late starter, my first console was a Nintendo64. So there's no nostalgia here for me but it still looks great!
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 11 October, 2017, 10:39:17 PM
Got mine last week. It's bloody glorious, isn't it?

I've used emulators for years - and actually own a NVidia Shield purely to play emulators on.... but it just doesn't compare to the experience of sitting in front of the TV playing the real thing. Even something as simple as an official SNES controller makes a world of difference from using dodgy third party controllers with imprecise dpads, and the user interface is sublime. I've clocked up hours of playtime on it already, and have barely scratched the surface of the 21 titles - haven't even loaded most of them up yet.

People moan about having to hit the reset button to get to the home menu, and on reflection I think this is a deliberate decision on Nintendo's part to dissuade players from save-scumming. And I think it works - I'm playing through Super Mario World, and for the most part I'm playing it old school as it was intended - that temptation to cheat with save states when I get stuck on a tricky level just isn't there. As a result I'm enjoying the game much more than at any time since I played it back on the original SNES.

It's also just adorable to look at, as a physical object, and fit perfectly under my tv next to the Apple TV. When I show the little SNES to people they react like it's a tiny kitten or something, and immediately want one!

An absolute steal for $80.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Professor Bear 11 October, 2017, 10:56:17 PM
Users have already cracked how to add your own roms, and it's surprisingly easy to do.  You only have about 200MB or so to work with, but the average SNES rom clocks in around 200-500kb, so the image/box art you use for the game on the system's front end menu will likely be larger than the actual game.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Link Prime 12 October, 2017, 10:01:14 AM
It's bloody glorious, isn't it?

Yep.

Like yourself, my sister and bro-in-law moved to the states a few years back.
They've been pestering me to pick them up a PAL version (they despise the US version too), so I'm on the hunt again for some of that elusive "extra stock" promised by Nintendo, T-Minus December 24th.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: The Enigmatic Dr X 12 October, 2017, 03:45:43 PM
I'm giving this to one of my kids as "his" Christmas present.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 12 October, 2017, 05:42:34 PM
It's bloody glorious, isn't it?

Yep.

Like yourself, my sister and bro-in-law moved to the states a few years back.
They've been pestering me to pick them up a PAL version (they despise the US version too), so I'm on the hunt again for some of that elusive "extra stock" promised by Nintendo, T-Minus December 24th.

Apparently they are starting to dispatch weekly shipments to shops as of yesterday, at least in the US. While getting one for RRP before Christmas might be tricky, I'm sure you'll manage to get one with a bit of patience - nintendo did explicitly tell customers not to pay more than retail price for one, which indicates that they are confident about eventually fulfilling demand.

Users have already cracked how to add your own roms, and it's surprisingly easy to do.  You only have about 200MB or so to work with, but the average SNES rom clocks in around 200-500kb, so the image/box art you use for the game on the system's front end menu will likely be larger than the actual game.

Yeah, but each suspend point takes up 1mb (x4 per game) so in reality you have even less space to play with, or else risk messing up your ability to save games. I think I'll leave mine as it is - it'd be nice to have a few more titles on there - mostly Konami and Capcom's licensed Disney/WB games (and a few others like Wild Guns/Demon's Crest etc), Mortal Kombat II and a few others, but pretty much all of the 'essentials' are covered in the existing 21 pack-in games.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: The Enigmatic Dr X 12 October, 2017, 06:31:33 PM
When's the GameCube mini out?
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 12 October, 2017, 06:59:24 PM
When's the GameCube mini out?

I heard a rumour a while back that they're going to launch a Gamecube Virtual Console for the Switch.

I could conceivably see them doing a N64 Mini next year, though presumably they wouldn't be able to include any Rare games (with the possible exception of Donkey Kong 64 and Diddy Kong Racing?) which honestly wipes out about half of the decent games on the whole system. There's also other complications like the RAM expansion and the larger, more expensive controllers). If they did do one I imagine it would be more expensive (probably $100 or more) and would probably only come with 10-15 games, pretty much all of which would be first party titles (with about half of them having 'Mario' in the title).
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 12 October, 2017, 07:16:55 PM
Edge magazine awards a rare 10/10 to Super Mario Odyssey (their last 10/10 was given to Breath of the Wild):

http://nintendoeverything.com/super-mario-odyssey-receives-first-review-in-edge-awarded-with-a-perfect-score/
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: JamesC 13 October, 2017, 08:11:57 AM
There are rumours that a Gameboy mini will be next. There are some fantastic games on that system so it could be really good.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Satanist 13 October, 2017, 09:40:22 AM
I am loving this wee machine. 87 exits found on Mario world. So close to that magical 96 score.
Once complete I need to decide whether to start Zelda or Metroid. I've completed Zelda many times but never really given Metroid a fair go so think I'll start with that.

When I get round to hacking it I've already compiled a list of 122 games to add.

Regards the next mini I would much rather a Gameboy than N64. As stated above without Rare there's not a lot to choose from and as its the start of 3D most of them are real fugly.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Keef Monkey 13 October, 2017, 10:27:54 AM
I decided to do a playthrough of Mario World recently on my RetroPie (because I've never finished it!), and wound up really stuck in a ghost house. Couldn't figure out how to get out of that place at all! Old games are hard.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Link Prime 13 October, 2017, 10:50:18 AM
Once complete I need to decide whether to start Zelda or Metroid.

I'm gonna have to go for Super Metroid myself, following on nicely from my recent completion of Samus Returns.

Naturally I'll be picking up whatever Nintendo does next year with these 'Mini' systems, but I doubt there are many Gameboy games I haven't repurchased already via the 3DS Virtual Console.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 13 October, 2017, 06:16:55 PM
Super Metroid is great, but imo it isn't as perfect as people like to remember. I played it for the first time a couple of years ago, and honestly there are parts that are so difficult they border on obtuse. I hit a brick wall on several occasions, and on eventually giving up and reading an FAQ to figure out what to do next, had the reaction of 'I would never have figured that out on my own'.

Zelda LttP is also great, but again I think is tougher and much less forgiving than people remember. I despise the mountain area at the north of the map with every fibre of my being.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Link Prime 24 October, 2017, 02:07:58 PM
Super Metroid is great, but imo it isn't as perfect as people like to remember. I played it for the first time a couple of years ago, and honestly there are parts that are so difficult they border on obtuse. I hit a brick wall on several occasions, and on eventually giving up and reading an FAQ to figure out what to do next, had the reaction of 'I would never have figured that out on my own'.

Conversely, that's what made Samus Returns a little bit too easy for my taste- the map radar system means there are no hidden nooks or crannies.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 24 October, 2017, 05:41:56 PM
Super Metroid is great, but imo it isn't as perfect as people like to remember. I played it for the first time a couple of years ago, and honestly there are parts that are so difficult they border on obtuse. I hit a brick wall on several occasions, and on eventually giving up and reading an FAQ to figure out what to do next, had the reaction of 'I would never have figured that out on my own'.

Conversely, that's what made Samus Returns a little bit too easy for my taste- the map radar system means there are no hidden nooks or crannies.

Hidden stuff isn't what I'm talking about though - I'm talking about things like having to use the big bomb to blow up the glass tunnel. There's really nothing in the game up to that point that hint or suggest that this might be something worth trying. No weapon in the game does any damage to scenery other than the soft blocks that dissolve. I can't imagine anyone figuring that out with anything other than blind luck.

I remember also getting really stuck early on by a collapsing bridge. Yeah, you just have to run across it - but iirc, you're not required to use - or even told or reminded that there is - a run button up to that point in the game, so you just assume an upgrade is required to pass that section.

Nintendo games generally excel at teaching the player basic skills, then escalating the challenge and getting the player to use those skills in clever new ways. Usually when you get stuck in a typical Zelda or Metroid game, when you do eventually figure out how to progress, you kick yourself and don't feel cheated. Super Metroid, while still a great game, imo feels a bit cheap from time to time in this regard - throwing an occasional roadblock at the player with zero suggestion of how it might be tackled. Fans of the game don't see it because of the rose tinted spectacles, but it's a little jarring for someone coming to it fresh.

Old games are hard.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Link Prime 24 October, 2017, 07:34:06 PM
Fans of the game don't see it because of the rose tinted spectacles

You may have me there Rad.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Tiplodocus 25 October, 2017, 01:50:33 AM
There's a bit in Ocarina of Time that had me stumped because you had to do a spin attack on a swift h on the other side of some bars.  I had to look up a guide because that option made no sense and never occurred to me.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: Keef Monkey 25 October, 2017, 09:48:34 AM
I got similarly stuck a couple of times revisiting Flashback recently - you encounter locked doors in the game as a matter of course, and they're only ever opened by a switch elsewhere or a key you need to get from an enemy. Except for one door, which looks exactly the same (to my eyes) as every other locked door in the game, but which opens when you shoot it. Didn't think to try that as the game had already taught me it didn't work! Likewise there's another part where you have to shoot a window to get through it, it's a fair chunk into the game, it just looks like background art and no other scenery has been destructible at that point so shooting it never even occurred to me.

That kind of thing, and the Radiator's Metroid example seems really common in old games when you go back to them, I've no idea how we managed to get through some of those games without the internet. I'm pretty sure in most cases I just didn't, and must have been happy to play the first stages of things over and over again.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: JamesC 25 October, 2017, 10:52:56 AM
Oh yeah, this kind of think happens loads in old games. Of course most of them had a premium rate phone line you could call if you got stuck!
My example is from The Dig - one of LucasArts old point and click adventures. At one point you have to call a monorail - I don't know how many times I clicked the 'call monorail' button without anything happening. I thought I must have to do something else first in order to progress and for the monorail switch to become active. It turned out you just had to hold the left mouse button down on the button until the monorail arrived (literally the only time in the game where you don't just activate something with a single click). 
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 25 October, 2017, 05:07:30 PM
Yeah, old games are full of this kind of thing. One of the most famous examples being the bit with the goat in Broken Sword.

I've no idea how we managed to get through some of those games without the internet

Tbh I think it stems from a time when kids would swap videogame tactics, strategies and secrets and stuff in the playground, and many games were designed with this in mind.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: radiator 30 November, 2017, 11:28:42 PM
This is great:

https://kotaku.com/hi-super-nintendo-chalmers-1820868115 (https://kotaku.com/hi-super-nintendo-chalmers-1820868115)
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: GrudgeJohnDeed 01 December, 2017, 01:30:56 AM
That is one gorgeous SNES, radiator  :).

Anybody getting one of these? -

https://www.analogue.co/pages/super-nt/
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: The Enigmatic Dr X 01 December, 2017, 07:49:38 AM
That is one gorgeous SNES, radiator  :).

Anybody getting one of these? -

https://www.analogue.co/pages/super-nt/

My guess would be no one. That looks like a "cease and desist" action right there.
: Re: Nintendo SNES Mini
: GrudgeJohnDeed 01 December, 2017, 03:18:53 PM
It's entirely legal, all the patents on the hardware have lapsed. It plays real cartridges too, not roms (except for Super Turrican Directors Cut and Super Turrican 2 which are in-built in a deal with the Turrican owners, Factor 5). The NES clone they did was super sexy as well, but too expensive for my taste even if it does have a machined aluminium body :D  There is a cheaper alternative in that case though, the AVS by RetroUSB