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General Chat => Games => : GrudgeJohnDeed 11 June, 2018, 03:35:47 PM

: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: GrudgeJohnDeed 11 June, 2018, 03:35:47 PM
I was playing through Sniper Elite 4 again recently and it's definitely the best one yet, especially with the co-op, but I'm perhaps getting a little WW2 thematic fatigue with it. Rebellion also have a ton of 2000ad properties, why not mash them up?

Stealth some Dredd into the global consumer's diet for example. Sniper Elite: Cursed Earth, a game where you play an SJS Judge ordered off into the cursed earth to take down the leader and top brass of a rapidly growing insurgent mutant army that has taken over a load of townships and will soon be knocking on the walls of MC1. Rumour has it the leader of the army is a Judge that took the long walk 20 years ago.. If possible it could continue the Sniper Elite trend of opening up and go fully open world, with a big desert littered with occupied villages and townships that you can attack from any angle.

Awful, murderous, rapey mutants will make quality x-ray fodder in lieu of Nazis, and it would be extra fun to line up a 3-in-1 headshot on a mutant with three heads or just getting to see all the weird insides of different kinds of mutants. Does he have a brain in his bum? It might not always be obvious the best way to kill one, especially the more powerful mutants!!


The other thing I was thinking about - if Rebellion havent had their arm bitten off yet behind the scenes by a big rich developer wanting to make the open world Mega City One Dredd game we all want, have they considered offering it to Microsoft? With Sony making Spiderman exclusive to PS4 and MS absolutely crying out for new exclusives of their own, that could be a great way way to get the funding a Dredd game deserves!



: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: JamesC 11 June, 2018, 03:57:19 PM
In terms of licencing appeal you can't compare Dredd to Spider-Man.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: GrudgeJohnDeed 11 June, 2018, 04:47:36 PM
Oh I didn't mean they're equivalent in popularity
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: JamesC 11 June, 2018, 06:03:13 PM
I’d love to see a really good Dredd-world game but I don’t think the big open-world thing is ever going to happen. I think the best bet for the character at the moment would be one of those Telltale Games style point and click story games.
A good way to go may be to have you play as a cadet on a hotdog run - the good ending would be qualifying as a Judge, the bad would be everyone dying and there’d be a few in between.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: GrudgeJohnDeed 12 June, 2018, 01:48:43 AM
I like that idea for an adventure game, especially because of the very different outcomes baked in to the premise, the choices in those kind of games sometimes feel a bit shallow with the outcome basically the same for everyone. The ones I've played anyway. Maybe the worst, worst ending if you go berserk always shooting first asking questions later is you accidentally release Judge Death with an errant round and cause your own Necropolis. :D




: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Sandman1 14 June, 2018, 06:06:10 PM
I’d love to see a really good Dredd-world game but I don’t think the big open-world thing is ever going to happen.

It could definitely be done if the concept is good enough and if you can gather the right people behind it. When I'm finished with my education and hopefully manage to acquire a job at a game developer, I will try to pitch my refined concept (?) to the top brass.       
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: GrudgeJohnDeed 16 June, 2018, 03:49:28 AM
Godspeed, Sandman!!

Further expounding on the X-ray mechanic, there could be an X-ray scope that you can use to actually probe targets for signs of vital organs before you take the shot. There would be a limiting factor, like a short use time followed by a long cooldown, or maybe perhaps the X-ray scope is so strong the target will quickly start to cook and go aggro if you look too long :D
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Krakajac 16 June, 2018, 09:47:15 AM
With Cyberpunk 2077 just around the corner, the best bet for a Dredd related game might be some kind of fan-made mod or overhaul.  Not sure whether Cyberpunk 2077 will allow for modding - in the same way that Fallout 4 and Skyrim have been modified?  The city in C2077 seems tailor made for Dredd. :)
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Sandman1 16 June, 2018, 03:31:46 PM
With Cyberpunk 2077 just around the corner, the best bet for a Dredd related game might be some kind of fan-made mod or overhaul.

Where does this pessimistic assumption come from? The absence of an ambitious Dredd game isn't some kind of verification of anything.   
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: flesario 16 June, 2018, 06:32:05 PM
It would cost a fortune to do an open world Dredd game that stood up, rebellion couldn't afford it and the licence isn't attractive enough surely?
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: JOE SOAP 16 June, 2018, 07:57:18 PM
Where does this pessimistic assumption come from? The absence of an ambitious Dredd game isn't some kind of verification of anything.

Possibly the absence of that level of capital.

The Witcher 3, he notes, cost well over $85 million in the end (PLN 300 million), although he also emphasizes that only $25 million (PLN 90 million) were direct production costs, with other costs showing up as indirect expenses; CyberPunk is expected to be more expensive.

https://gamingbolt.com/cyberpunk-2077-development-costs-more-than-the-witcher-3-expected-sales-to-be-even-bigger
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Jim_Campbell 16 June, 2018, 08:15:30 PM
Possibly the absence of that level of capital.

Quickly — to Kickstarter! :-)
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: GordonR 16 June, 2018, 09:27:23 PM
GTA5 cost over $200 million.

Remember that, anytime you see another well-meaning “You could do an open-world Dredd game, just like GTA!” post.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Krakajac 16 June, 2018, 11:45:32 PM
Where does this pessimistic assumption come from? The absence of an ambitious Dredd game isn't some kind of verification of anything.   

If I could understand what you’re trying to say, I might attempt a more detailed reply.  Your statement makes no sense.  I was merely suggesting that in this day and age - with modding being a HUGE part of open-world games (again, see Skyrim and Fallout 4) that a Dredd mod (of some kind), is more than possible.  There was no ‘pessimism’ in my original comment - nor ‘assumptions’ made - and no ‘verifications’ suggested (whatever the hell that means).
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Jim_Campbell 16 June, 2018, 11:46:46 PM
GTA5 cost over $200 million.

Ummm… Kickstarter…?
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Steve Green 17 June, 2018, 12:03:16 AM
It's not pessimism, it's realism.

I worked on a sandbox GTA clone for 18 months back in the stone-age before the publisher went belly-up and the project folded. It pretty much did for that office of the company.

As Gordon says, they are incredibly expensive because of the amount of content required, and subsequent testing compared to something that's more limited in area.

Even the procedurally generated worlds (and they tend to favour natural landscapes rather than cities) fall short of intent to the extent that there are piss-take videos about it (hello No Man's Sky)

Sure I could see themed DLC for something like Sniper Elite, and I'm a little surprised there's been nothing on that front, but I find it hard to see a Dredd open world game ever happening.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Krakajac 17 June, 2018, 03:00:43 AM
^ This. :)

In addition, open-world games are not a new notion.  They’ve been around for donkeys.  A cursory check on the inter-webs suggests that The Legend Of Zelda might* be considered the first sandbox-style, open-world game that rewarded exploration - and that was 32 years ago.  If there were legs in a truly open-world Dredd game (even one with the relatively simple, top down style of the original Zelda) we would have seen something by now.

*Perhaps Zelda might not be the best example of the genre - but even the original Elder Scrolls game (which definitely was open world in design) was released 24 years ago.

I can guarantee - if Cyberpunk 2077 is moddable (and it may not be) - we’ll definitely be seeing Bladerunner skins, PKD blasters, possibly even spinners, etc.  There’s no reason why the same can’t occur for Dredd.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Mardroid 17 June, 2018, 05:29:21 PM
Crying out loud.

I just typed a post and my ipad crashed, and the post was lost. I do like my iPad, but I do find the Android system more robust in that regard.

In a nutshell: what I’d like to see would be a Strontium Dog game. While the bounty hunting scenario would lend well to open world, I’d be happy with a decent if more linear action game (preferably 3rd person) along the likes of our Rogue Trooper or the Arkham series games. Make sure you have the special weapons and toys available (upgrades available, it’s money paid for bounties, etc) and access to mutie powers. Maybe a buddie team up thing, the second character (Wulf or whoever) computer controlled in single player games. Could be smashing.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Sandman1 17 June, 2018, 05:40:44 PM
Possibly the absence of that level of capital.

GTA5 cost over $200 million.
Remember that, anytime you see another well-meaning “You could do an open-world Dredd game, just like GTA!” post.

It's not pessimism, it's realism.

I worked on a sandbox GTA clone for 18 months back in the stone-age before the publisher went belly-up and the project folded. It pretty much did for that office of the company.

As Gordon says, they are incredibly expensive because of the amount of content required, and subsequent testing compared to something that's more limited in area.

This is not a massive open-world game with a narrative that lasts for 100 hours, so it's pretty unfair to compare it with games that plays in another league. You substantially reduce the expenses and find a publisher with enough capital and confidence in your concept. Genuine ambition, compromises and a great idea can realize a lot.   
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: GordonR 17 June, 2018, 06:51:32 PM
This is not a massive open-world game with a narrative that lasts for 100 hours, so it's pretty unfair to compare it with games that plays in another league. You substantially reduce the expenses and find a publisher with enough capital and confidence in your concept. Genuine ambition, compromises and a great idea can realize a lot.   

Rewind to the beginning of this conversation:

James C:
I’d love to see a really good Dredd-world game but I don’t think the big open-world thing is ever going to happen.

You:
It can definitely be done if the concept is good enough and you can gather the right people behind it.

So you’ll forgive us if we thought that you were indeed talking about a giant, open-world Dredd game, since....y’know, that’s what you said could definitely be done.

I’ve worked on a couple of dozen games, big and small, and i respectfully disagree with your take on what is and isn’t possible in mainstream game production.

: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Steve Green 17 June, 2018, 06:55:03 PM
So it's both ambitious *and* makes compromises?

Sorry, that sounds like a woolly description.

Personally I see it in the same vein as trying to do a low-mid range comic book movie like Dredd and getting compared to Marvel's film costing 3-4 times more.

Sometimes these things cost, and the consumer doesn't care about what the budget is, just the end result.

"You substantially reduce the expenses and find a publisher with enough capital and confidence in your concept."

If it was that straightforward, don't you think Rebellion would have done it?
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Sandman1 18 June, 2018, 07:10:43 PM
James C:
I’d love to see a really good Dredd-world game but I don’t think the big open-world thing is ever going to happen.

You:
It can definitely be done if the concept is good enough and you can gather the right people behind it.

So you’ll forgive us if we thought that you were indeed talking about a giant, open-world Dredd game, since....y’know, that’s what you said could definitely be done.

I’ve worked on a couple of dozen games, big and small, and i respectfully disagree with your take on what is and isn’t possible in mainstream game production.

An open-world, yes, but not something that can be compared with the industry giants. I have no empirical knowledge about game development, so I can't make a sure assessment about the matter. Only time will tell and I think expenses can fluctuate pretty much depending on what you choose to implement. I can probably get a bit naively optimistic when I see potential.

So it's both ambitious *and* makes compromises?

Sorry, that sounds like a woolly description.

In summary: relativity and subjective opinions.

"You substantially reduce the expenses and find a publisher with enough capital and confidence in your concept."

If it was that straightforward, don't you think Rebellion would have done it?

There's a big "if" in my response. I bet they could give you a better answer.

: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: GrudgeJohnDeed 19 June, 2018, 06:28:06 PM
It does seem a little defeatist to go straight to the GTA V budget when we think of a figure, that's on the very high end indeed right? Before we even start cutting unnecessary features there must be lots of places you could save money when you look at what Rockstar spend on things like marketing, voice actors and licences. Someone brought it up before but The Witcher 3 had a miniscule marketing budget in comparison for example with a total budget including marketing of $80m+, and it's an extremely high quality, ambitious game by all accounts and sold well.

As a related point the Witcher books upon which the games are based are very obscure in the west (or were, before the games), when you leverage an IP you're not just thinking about its current popularity but whether it's fertile ground for games (cool characters, stories, worlds, visuals), and whether the brand can grow. I absolutely believe a big publisher could be sold on that with Dredd, and I always will. It's fucking cool and completely maddening to me it's not more popular!

You can do it Sandman! I'll wear a big clock and be your hype man in the pitch meetings. YEAAA, OPEN WORLD DREDD, SUCKAH!! DAS RIGHT! XD I'll get my coat..
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Frank 19 June, 2018, 06:40:55 PM
Sorry, can't count.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Frank 19 June, 2018, 06:48:25 PM
The Witcher 3 had a (budget) of $80m

The proposed Dredd TV show has a budget of £10-20 million, and Tharg's either unable or unwilling to pay for that himself.


... second time's the charm
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: GrudgeJohnDeed 19 June, 2018, 07:32:46 PM
I think the best chance is definitely a bigger developer or publisher coming in now the Dredd licence is on the market, but never say never for Rebellion doing it in-house I say! Fingers crossed Strange Brigade does gang-busters.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Sandman1 19 June, 2018, 11:23:20 PM
Someone brought it up before but The Witcher 3 had a miniscule marketing budget in comparison for example with a total budget including marketing of $80m+, and it's an extremely high quality, ambitious game by all accounts and sold well.

I'm quite sure games like Sleeping Dogs or Saints Row even had a way more limited budget than that.   

You can do it Sandman! I'll wear a big clock and be your hype man in the pitch meetings. YEAAA, OPEN WORLD DREDD, SUCKAH!! DAS RIGHT! XD I'll get my coat..

You could say that to anyone who has the slightest interest in materializing the great potential in a possible Dredd game. 
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: von Boom 23 June, 2018, 06:06:41 PM
There may be some good news soon:

https://www.vg247.com/2018/06/21/judge-dredd-2000ad-games/ (https://www.vg247.com/2018/06/21/judge-dredd-2000ad-games/)
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: GrudgeJohnDeed 24 June, 2018, 08:24:20 PM
Yeah that's great news, I'm chuffed we're getting stuff whatever it is!

oh and Rebellion, if you do make an fully open-world Sniper Elite game you could perhaps use the big open map to dip your toe in the Battle Royale market multiplayer market that's so hot right now..
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Sandman1 25 June, 2018, 03:05:30 PM
There may be some good news soon:

https://www.vg247.com/2018/06/21/judge-dredd-2000ad-games/ (https://www.vg247.com/2018/06/21/judge-dredd-2000ad-games/)

I cross my fingers really tight.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: moogie101 25 June, 2018, 03:32:48 PM
If the TV show became popular then a Dredd open world game "might" be possible. If you think of the distinct characters, settings & storylines available it certainly could be successful. But as already said it would take some serious investment to get it off the ground which is unlikely.

I quite like the idea of a Mass Effect style game for Strontium Dog with you travelling from planet to planet chasing down bounties.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Theblazeuk 19 July, 2018, 11:57:30 AM
I'm quite sure games like Sleeping Dogs or Saints Row even had a way more limited budget than that.   

Sleeping Dogs probably had a comparitively high development budget. It was meant to be True Crime 3 but Activision canned it since they didn't like how much it was costing, until Square Enix picked it up.

There is a world of space between GTAV and other open world games such as say, Witcher 3, but even a budget of £80m is alot. Don't shoot for the stars, aim for the moon and you might get there.

I like the idea of a Telltale style game. Would work really well for Dredd I think.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: IndigoPrime 19 July, 2018, 12:14:29 PM
An alternative for a 2000 AD property might be to ditch the open-world-style thing, and run something with more linear action. Shadowgun Legends could be a way to do something with Dredd or (especially) Strontium Dog, although I'll admit I don't know the budget of that game either.

Ultimately, though, games are bloody expensive to make – even ones we consider relatively simple. The infographics surrounding the two Monument Valley games neatly showcase that. And one might surmise that had Judge Dredd vs Zombies done stonkingly well, it wouldn't be alone on the App Store in terms of 2000 AD properties. As for gamebooks, Judge Dredd: Countdown Sector 106 is gone entirely from the App Store. Drokk!
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: GrudgeJohnDeed 19 July, 2018, 01:43:07 PM
I wouldn't let any possible under-performance of Dredd vs Zombies dishearten them too much, it was mainly a mobile game which is a different market to consoles and hyper-mega-oversaturated. There's a graveyard somewhere for the thousands of good developers who have tanked their companies straining for a hit on mobile.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: IndigoPrime 19 July, 2018, 01:48:11 PM
Mobile is relatively low risk. Once you start heading for console/PC territory, you're into movie-style funding scenarios.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: GrudgeJohnDeed 19 July, 2018, 02:26:00 PM
Yeah that graveyard is full of companies much smaller than Rebellion for sure, I just brought it up to illustrate how hard it is to get a hit on mobile.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Sandman1 25 July, 2018, 05:36:25 PM
It's perhaps more feasible to go the Arkham series route: you expand the scope if the first game reaches that coveted success. 
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Sandman1 25 July, 2018, 06:13:14 PM


You could start off with a few interconnected hub areas, like the latest Tomb Raider games. That concept would on the other hand undermine, or maybe entirely cut off, the use of the Lawmaster and a much sought after exploration of Mega-City One.
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Tiplodocus 26 July, 2018, 09:50:38 PM
Are there any Star Trek open world games?
: Re: A Couple of Ideas for Rebellion
: Pyroxian 26 July, 2018, 09:59:20 PM
Are there any Star Trek open world games?

Star Trek Online - https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online
There's even a free Humble Bundle offer for it atm - https://www.humblebundle.com/store/star-trek-online-humble-trekkie-pack