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2000 AD => General => : Suede1971 22 August, 2018, 07:16:51 PM

: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Suede1971 22 August, 2018, 07:16:51 PM
Hershey was 38 as far as i can remember in the cal files, she kind of looks the same now. Shouldn't she look more like a woman in her 50s? can't imagine a judge would would be too bothered about looking more mature.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: TordelBack 22 August, 2018, 07:39:40 PM
Some artists do (Colin MacNeil gives her these great little wrinkles), some don't: it is the way of Dredd.  Anyway, everyone lives longer and looks healthier in the 22nd C, so there's that to look forward to.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Richard 22 August, 2018, 07:47:31 PM
The Sisters of Death took it upon themselves to age on behalf of all the other women. They're only 26.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: JOE SOAP 22 August, 2018, 07:58:02 PM
Joe Pumpernickel Face Dredd has had a few cosmetic treatments; CJ Goodman (43 years in the Chief's chair) nipped-in to get his regular rejuve during The Day the Law Died, so I'm sure the ladies ain't averse to a quick facial between shifts.

: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Richard 22 August, 2018, 07:59:29 PM
You are still talking about cosmetic surgery, right?
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Frank 22 August, 2018, 08:42:59 PM
Hershey was 38 as far as i can remember in the cal files, she kind of looks the same now. Shouldn't she look more like a woman in her 50s? can't imagine a judge would be too bothered about looking more mature.

You're imposing 20th century values. The idea that ageing confers dignity or authority, and the obverse - that disliking the process admits to a troubling deficiency of character - are comforting lies we tell ourselves because we can't get out of it.

As soon as halting the ageing process becomes as easy as taking a shower* or a yearly check-up, nobody will ever look much older than 28 again.


* Nobody reeks of body odour and excreta anymore, even though absolutely everyone did only a century or so ago. Aristocracy included
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: TordelBack 22 August, 2018, 09:27:16 PM
Nobody reeks of body odour and excreta anymore, even though absolutely everyone did only a century or so ago.

My regular commute begs to differ.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Proudhuff 22 August, 2018, 10:57:05 PM
I’m still touting my Anderson destroys half a city block when her menopause starts story... if anyone’s interested.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Professor Bear 22 August, 2018, 11:15:28 PM
I tried to draw Anderson age-appropriate in a Zarjaz strip, but backtracked when it became apparent that the results were variable.  Trying to capture the simplest of details on a face - cheekbones, the philtrum, the cheek folds - can age even youthful characters, so I imagine most artists just opt out of the problem and draw females with fewer readily identifiable or recurring facial characteristics, hence why a lot of artists' female characters look suspiciously similar apart from their clothes or hairstyles.

Plus no comic artist ever went broke drawing fit birds.  Quite the opposite, from what I can tell.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: JOE SOAP 22 August, 2018, 11:44:43 PM
You are still talking about cosmetic surgery, right?


Whatever works for you.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: JOE SOAP 23 August, 2018, 12:11:52 AM
Hilda aged gracefully.

(https://78.media.tumblr.com/7de76a4ffeaffe178cdf16f0c1f11da0/tumblr_inline_o3lwfwlKVE1s1btgh_540.jpg)

(https://78.media.tumblr.com/3c1538bb8c4cab1b27dbc15de6220600/tumblr_inline_obv6c8Swkc1s1btgh_540.jpg)
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Tjm86 23 August, 2018, 10:55:43 AM
Plus no comic artist ever went broke drawing fit birds.  Quite the opposite, from what I can tell.

Very true!  Rob Liefield is particularly well known for his athletic penguins and power lifting vultures.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: IndigoPrime 23 August, 2018, 04:38:23 PM
Plus no comic artist ever went broke drawing fit birds.
The problem is when those are the only women in the strip, and when it's rather absurd when Anderson looks like a Page Three girl. (Never mind that MC1 still has a major problem with balance. Given it being set 100+ years into the future, it's very… white. And very, very male. It'd be lovely to see that change.)
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Professor Bear 23 August, 2018, 05:20:16 PM
That kind of failure has been a team effort - artists tend to default to what they know and writers tend to use the word "blonde" a lot in character descriptions.  Of late there's been a conscious effort to push back against it - which you can tell is happening because single men on the internet are furious about it.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Steven Denton 23 August, 2018, 06:57:27 PM
Wasn't it mentioned in one Anderson story that she couldn't re-juve  or take anti aging drugs as they interfered with her Psi abilities? I think it was one of the Arthur Ranson Illustrated storied in the Megazine.

Traditionally comics has denoted middle age by drawing the person exactly the same but with grey hair around the temples. I can't really draw women anyway so it's never been a problem for me.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Tjm86 24 August, 2018, 08:06:21 AM
it's very… white. And very, very male. It'd be lovely to see that change.

I'm willing to be called and corrected on this but isn't it fair to say that Ezquerra's renditions tend toward the more diverse?
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Sinx 24 August, 2018, 09:23:28 AM
Nobody reeks of body odour and excreta anymore, even though absolutely everyone did only a century or so ago.

My regular commute begs to differ.
Or one of my immediate office colleagues  :lol:  :'(
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: JayzusB.Christ 24 August, 2018, 09:43:01 AM
I was only thinking about this yesterday.  I seem to remember a (Boo-Cook-illustrated, possibly) strip where Anderson contemplates her middle aged face in the mirror.  Her reflection does indeed look middle-aged, but oddly, the face looking at it doesn't.

Alan Grant kind of shot himself in the foot by suggesting that all judges except Psis take age-slowing drugs (while Psis spend most of their downtime on amphetamines).
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: IndigoPrime 24 August, 2018, 10:23:36 AM
I'm willing to be called and corrected on this but isn't it fair to say that Ezquerra's renditions tend toward the more diverse?
One of the most interesting thing about Dredd is that Ezquerra initially rendered him as a black man. In a more general sense regarding his strips specifically and diversity, it'd be wrong to comment without looking at a recent selection of his work. Looking at Dredd overall, there's a blog series about the women in Dredd that is eye-opening and rather depressing in equal measure.

On the ageing side of things, Dredd's world has also changed a lot over time, presumably to deal with Dredd himself now being very old indeed. So you used to have people in MC1 being very old, but looking that part. Now, 70 is seen as being more like 40. But even then, you have to look at how people are being represented, and Anderson looking like a 20-year-old supermodel is ridiculous. (And that so many strips still have the 'loads of bloke Judges and the only woman is a Psi is just deeply irritating.)
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Steve Green 24 August, 2018, 01:10:34 PM
As an early example of aging not being what it used to be.

Bizmo Klux looked pretty good for a 134 year old. Sure he's a cyborg, but the fleshy bits are looking pretty spry. Or were. Or will be.

(https://k45.kn3.net/taringa/8/6/5/8/6/0//mircocaloghero/2EC.jpg?3487)
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: JayzusB.Christ 24 August, 2018, 05:10:55 PM
There was a Council of 5 member, can't remember her name (Margaret something-or-other?), who was introduced as a normal-looking middle-aged woman but under a different artist became a hot young babe.  Think she was one of Francisco's people; though she could have come in under Sinfeld.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Frank 24 August, 2018, 05:51:41 PM
There was a Council of 5 member, can't remember her name (Margaret something-or-other?), who was introduced as a normal-looking middle-aged woman but under a different artist became a hot young babe.  Think she was one of Francisco's people; though she could have come in under Sinfeld.

The Curious Case Of Margaret Stalker

(https://i.imgur.com/6HznGLP.png?3)
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: TordelBack 24 August, 2018, 05:55:29 PM
Nice one,  Frank!

I thought Beeby & Dyer's Anderson was an excellent attempt at depicting a more mature version, both in looks and role. But again we're in golden goose territory: wasn't long before she was back on pin-up model.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Link Prime 24 August, 2018, 06:43:09 PM
though she could have come in under Sinfeld.

I knew March wasn't a Gruddamn clone!
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Mardroid 24 August, 2018, 06:47:05 PM
Maybe  Cassie is using her telepathic powers to alter people's perceptions, to make herself look younger than she is. Went she would make her uniform look like it's painted on, makes little sense from a female perspective though... unless it's to keep perps distracted...
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Frank 24 August, 2018, 07:08:40 PM
though she could have come in under Sinfeld.

I knew March wasn't a Gruddamn clone!

REPORTED


: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: JOE SOAP 24 August, 2018, 07:13:10 PM
One of the most interesting thing about Dredd is that Ezquerra initially rendered him as a black man.

According to Carlos in Judge Dredd: The Mega-History, he gave Dredd "large lips – to put a mystery as to his racial background.'' but I believe it was Mick McMahon who thought he was black.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Geoff 24 August, 2018, 07:27:48 PM
I really don't care about how many male or female judges are depicted or the different races. Or whether some artists portray Anderson as older (like Rob Dowling did brilliantly) and others as a sexy young woman.  It's more than that though, I don't think it would even occur to me to wonder.

I entirely understand that others do, and that my lack of interest in this sort of thing may represent certain limitations on my part. But I'm interested if anyone else on here is equally unconcerned with this sort of thing?
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Frank 24 August, 2018, 08:28:43 PM
I really don't care about how many male or female judges are depicted or the different races. Or whether some artists portray Anderson as older (like Mike Dowling did brilliantly) and others as a sexy young woman.  It's more than that though, I don't think it would even occur to me to wonder.

I entirely understand that others do, and that my lack of interest in this sort of thing may represent certain limitations on my part. But I'm interested if anyone else on here is equally unconcerned with this sort of thing?

Yep, although that also means I wouldn't be bothered if Tharg decided the cast of every strip should look like a combined ad for the NAACP, Mencap and Help The Aged.

Doesn't matter.


: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Greg M. 24 August, 2018, 08:58:41 PM
Surely most of the best Dredd supporting characters are women or non-white? (I appreciate this is sometimes only to make them visually dissimilar to Dredd.) Nonetheless, given that context, I'm not sure it matters so much if artists mostly tend to default to white blokes for random background judges.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Blue Cactus 24 August, 2018, 09:20:50 PM
I'm willing to be called and corrected on this but isn't it fair to say that Ezquerra's renditions tend toward the more diverse?
(And that so many strips still have the 'loads of bloke Judges and the only woman is a Psi is just deeply irritating.)

This has sporadically bothered me since I was a kid. I always liked it when Mega City judges looked a bit different to each other - men and women, different hair/facial hair, different races etc. As I got a bit older I liked the fact that Megacity 1 seemed to have moved away from some of the discriminatory problems we face today (mutants aside). Judge Dredd the strip paints a fairly bleak future in many ways, but that one factor always felt optimistic to me; a positive element within an otherwise dark vision of the future. But quite often all we see are generic clean-shaven white male judges. I get the idea that Justice Dept is this faceless monolithic system, but that doesn't mean they don't have equal opportunities for whoever actually joins the academy.

I often wonder if this is down to the artist, or if writers will sometimes give instructions on what they want the judges to look like.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: SpaceSpinner2000 24 August, 2018, 09:38:59 PM
Wasn't there a megazine story a year or so ago with an older looking Anderson? Sorry for not remembering exactly.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Jim_Campbell 24 August, 2018, 09:44:27 PM
Sorry for not remembering exactly.

It’s your age…
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Richard 24 August, 2018, 10:01:25 PM
Anderson's age matters to me. One of the major strengths of the Dredd and Dredd-related stories is that time passes in real time; 1977 was 2099 and 2018 is 2140. It's undermined when a woman who should be 60 is depicted as 20. If I was politically correct I would add that it's also ageist and sexist, but luckily I don't give a fuck about all that shit.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Funt Solo 24 August, 2018, 10:24:40 PM
Hershey

In 2102, from prog 166In 2135 (33 years later), prog 1820
(https://i.imgur.com/657ywNp.png)    (https://i.imgur.com/ZlL9f3L.png)
With apologies to Private Eye's separated at birth section.

Well, she seems to have aged quite appropriately there: from about 18 (give or take a few years either way) to about (a very healthy) 51-ish (assuming a Madonna-style fitness regimen).

I do wonder at people who claim not to notice this sort of thing.  Like claims of colour-blindness (on people's skin pigmentation), I find it difficult to fathom.  Do you also not notice homelessness?  Controversy?  Complexity? 
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: JayzusB.Christ 24 August, 2018, 10:52:19 PM
There was a Council of 5 member, can't remember her name (Margaret something-or-other?), who was introduced as a normal-looking middle-aged woman but under a different artist became a hot young babe.  Think she was one of Francisco's people; though she could have come in under Sinfeld.

The Curious Case Of Margaret Stalker

(https://i.imgur.com/6HznGLP.png?3)

That's the one! She looked much more like a Margaret before she got young.

Also, aren't they all Flint jobs except the McNeil one? She also seems to have gone through the old Beeny melanin saturation process too.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Richard 24 August, 2018, 11:08:03 PM
Indeed. I have no problem with characters who are not white when we first meet them, eg Giant, Sanchez, Francisco, Shimura. But I do object to white characters spontaneously changing their race at the drop of a hat, eg Beeny and Stalker.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Jim_Campbell 24 August, 2018, 11:14:53 PM
But I do object to white characters spontaneously changing their race at the drop of a hat, eg Beeny and Stalker.

When was Beeny not Hispanic …?
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Frank 24 August, 2018, 11:25:36 PM

Maybe Stalker isn't the best ground upon which to fight that particular battle. We have to accept that Margaret Stalker is an honorary title, passed on from generation to generation - like The Phantom. The position's been filled by at least three completely different women since Tour Of Duty:

(https://i.imgur.com/2hB5K7U.png?2) (https://i.imgur.com/087e5WO.png?2)
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Funt Solo 25 August, 2018, 12:06:07 AM
Indeed. I have no problem with characters who are not white when we first meet them, eg Giant, Sanchez, Francisco, Shimura. But I do object to white characters spontaneously changing their race at the drop of a hat, eg Beeny and Stalker.

In movies (and shows, and plays), of course, you need actors.  So, who cares if Harvey Dent is played by a black actor or a white actor?  Or Nick Fury?  Or Hermione Granger?  Or Kingpin?  Bond?  (A female Doctor Who!)  I could go on.

Given the prevalence for whitewashing (Ghost In The Shell) or just painting people (Peter Sellers in The Party), it seems reasonable that some affirmative action is a step in the right direction.  Redress.

So, is an artist's depiction of a character a similar thing?  Can an artist re-imagine a character's race without us getting all in a tizzy?  (Not that I'm sure that's ever consciously happened in 2000AD).

See, I wouldn't mind if Dredd was depicted as black, say.  As long as he doesn't get depicted as being 18 years old, because that seems silly (unless you're telling a story set in his past). 
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: JOE SOAP 25 August, 2018, 12:08:38 AM
But I do object to white characters spontaneously changing their race at the drop of a hat, eg Beeny...

That tends to happen if you put your brain into the body of a hawt latino (then impregnate yourself with your own mixed-race offspring).
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Richard 25 August, 2018, 01:17:14 AM
Beeny was always Hispanic, but in her first few stories she looked white -- just like plenty of other Hispanics, including her own mother.

Hermione Granger happened to be played by a white actress in the films, but in the theatre she was played by a black actress, which is fine because (1) it's a different medium and (2) the novels never said what race she was (as the author herself pointed out). I would have a different opinion if half way through the film franchise they had replaced Emma Watson with a black actress, because that would have been silly.

McMahon depicted Dredd as black in 1977, but nobody noticed at the time and he didn't tell anyone, so the other artists drew him as white because no-one told them not to. That was accidental. If the editors or management had known that Dredd was black in the first episode, and had ordered the artists to make him white, then that would be racist, but that's not what happened. Is it different if you purposefully take a white character and make him black? (Dr Who doesn't count because Timelord.) (I'm not accusing Tharg of that btw, I'm speaking generally.) There's lots of enthusiastic speculation about Idris Elba playing James Bond at the moment, but how would people feel if they remade Shaft but cast a white actor as the title character?
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: TordelBack 25 August, 2018, 01:57:24 AM
There's lots of enthusiastic speculation about Idris Elba playing James Bond at the moment, but how would people feel if they remade Shaft but cast a white actor as the title character?

Bond's essential ethnicity is British (more specifically Scottish if we follow the later books), which is a different thing now than it was in 1952 when Fleming created him: in 2018 you can't get much more British than Idris Elba. 

The technological, social and geopolitical setting of the 21st C stories is utterly different to that of the originals, and so is the racial makeup of the Secret Service. One can't, for example, really believe that Daniel Craig's Bond served as a Naval Commander in WII and resembles Hoagy Carmicheal, but he's still Bond.  Times change, as long as Bond is a British Secret Agent I'm not sure skin colour is remotely relevant.

Shaft on the other hand is rooted in the blaxploitation genre, the original film deals with explicitly racial themes, plus being a black private dick who gets all the chicks is literally right there in the theme song: I don't recall Shirley Bassey or Duran Duran ever specifically extolling Bond's whiteness.   (Leaving aside the continuing dominance of white male heroes in cinema, the Rock aside, which is probably the real issue about a white recasting).


EDIT: Perhaps hypocritically, I would have a problem with a female Bond - I think being a "sexist, misogynist dinosaur" probably is integral to the character.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Funt Solo 25 August, 2018, 02:18:40 AM
There's lots of enthusiastic speculation about Idris Elba playing James Bond at the moment, but how would people feel if they remade Shaft but cast a white actor as the title character?

As Tordelback said, they're not equatable.  There's also the issue of the historical context of whitewashing (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitewashing_in_film).

So, more representation of traditionally under-represented groups (affirmative action) is a positive force designed to redress an imbalance.  Redress: having Bond be black.  Not redress: making Shaft white.

I don't think Dredd's being white is integral to the character.  So why not depict him as black?
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Greg M. 25 August, 2018, 07:58:28 AM

I don't think Dredd's being white is integral to the character.  So why not depict him as black?

In another medium, fair enough, no problem with that at all. In a rebooted alternate-timeline comic - well, it'd seem a bit contrived and pointless, but all right. Kill him off and make Judge Giant the star of the strip? Go for it. But if you're looking for the regular Joe to spontaneously undergo a Lois Lane "I am Curious (Black!)" style transformation...nah, I'll pass.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: JayzusB.Christ 25 August, 2018, 12:02:43 PM
Think I may have started this with my mention of Stalker's colouring - I don't have any problem with Beeny looking more Hispanic than she used to, and Stalker's colouring is the least significant aspect of her many transformations.

No problem with Bond being a black man either - if we insist on continuity there he should be an elderly Sean Connery. 

Dredd would seem a bit weird if he suddenly became black; as he's an older and bulkier version of the same guy of a few decades ago. (Aren't we all?). But yeah, in a reboot or alternative medium, then no problem.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: IndigoPrime 25 August, 2018, 01:20:12 PM
Doesn't matter.
To individuals, personally. But we live in a society where trials have been done in various places about the visibility of women. Men often naturally think things are even when films and media include approx. 25 per cent women. Studies have been done specifically timing genders speaking in things like lecture halls (and giving lectures). Even those men who conducted some studies got the figures woefully wrong (the gist being that if women spoke for more than about a quarter of the time in total, men thought they'd 'dominated' the entire thing).

I'm not suggesting 2000 AD can fix this, obviously, but I do find it a bit ridiculous that a far-future society set in the remains of the US is predominantly white and male, and especially so when it comes to policing. Naturally, this comes from the artists predominantly being white and male, and drawing themselves, and referencing from their own viewpoints. But this isn't inclusive, and it's not the kind of representation that really makes sense, unless that's what we believe such a future will be like. (See also: Star Trek, which for all its utopian vision only saw fit to have one female senior crew member in the original run. How very progressive.)

This bends me out of joint more than it should because of mini-G. I see her growing up in a society where as a mini-bot she's already getting shit from men and boys (she's 4), and where the vast, vast majority of media is weighted against her. In short, media should do better. It's not like there's no awareness now, and it's not like it'd be that fucking difficult for artists to think: "You know, in my thumbnails for this entire Dredd strip, every single Judge has been a white bloke. I'm going to change that."
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: GrudgeJohnDeed 25 August, 2018, 01:52:07 PM
I'm not a fan of inexplicably changing races in the same continuity either, it just doesn't make sense.

Bond is a series that has nonsensical continuity and suspension of disbelief regarding Bond's regenerations baked in though, I'd be well up for Idris Elba as Bond.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: TordelBack 25 August, 2018, 02:15:45 PM
(See also: Star Trek, which for all its utopian vision only saw fit to have one female senior crew member in the original run. How very progressive.)

In 1966*. In its 2017 incarnation a slight majority of the key characters are women (Michael,  Tilly,  both Georgious, Cornwell,
Kayla, L'Rell and arguably Adiama and the Ops officer whose name I forget) . But I agree with all your points.



*The original intention of Majel Barrett's Number One would have been a more significant step forward,  but it was obviously it was a step too far.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Frank 25 August, 2018, 03:42:56 PM
I'm not suggesting 2000 AD can fix this

We agree on all points.


: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: IndigoPrime 25 August, 2018, 04:43:21 PM
2000 AD can, however, do its part to try.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Funt Solo 25 August, 2018, 05:30:48 PM
I see her growing up in a society where as a mini-bot she's already getting shit from men and boys (she's 4), and where the vast, vast majority of media is weighted against her. In short, media should do better.

I'm not normally big on the feels, but that brought a tear to my eye over my cornflakes.  My daughter is 6, and before she was born I thought I was a strong feminist.  But there's nothing like the glaring reality of what she'll have to put up with from society to make it far more real and more personal for me.

I've been trying hard to find positive role models for her in media: where there are strong female central characters that aren't defined solely by the men around them.  Things I have found: Ronia the Robber's Daughter (book and cartoon series), the Oz books (& GN versions), Ms Marvel and The Guardians of Ga'Hoole (books).

Things that I would be embarrassed to show her because of the way women are depicted would include quite a lot of 2000AD, unfortunately.  I'm hoping it's improved and improving (I'm still reading back issues from 2013), though.

Here's an example (from 2010, mind you) of something I think depicts women as sex objects (where their male counterparts would not be depicted the same way), from Anderson's House of Vyle in the Megazine.  Oddly, someone wrote (either in Dreddlines or the msg board, I don't recall which) to complain that she was drawn too much like a man?!  So, for some she wasn't sexualized enough.

Spray-on uniform showing bubble-butt and boob:

(https://i.imgur.com/MUf2cJz.png)


What happens when ghostly hands attack the two main characters?

The dude (standing up straight, shown frontal)   
gets his gun taken away from him:
(https://i.imgur.com/hSsUYU2.png)
Anderson (arching her back and sticking out her butt) gets groped!
(https://i.imgur.com/6srDh9N.png)
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Proudhuff 25 August, 2018, 08:36:36 PM
I refer the learned gentleman to my first letter to Tharg thirty years ago asking if Anderson’s hi heels were standard issue and did Dredd have them too.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Colin YNWA 25 August, 2018, 09:34:21 PM
... My daughter is 6, and before she was born I thought I was a strong feminist.  But there's nothing like the glaring reality of what she'll have to put up with from society to make it far more real and more personal for me.

I've been trying hard to find positive role models for her in media:

Seriously try checking out The Phoenix. Its balance is miles ahead of 2000ad and its a great read for the young ums and I love reading it too um.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: TordelBack 26 August, 2018, 10:00:09 AM
A discussion that rings painfully true for the father of an 8-year old girl. 

Boo Cook is undoubtedly one of Tharg's very finest, but I did not like his Anderson (even if the "hands off, creep!" motif goes right back to her earliest solo strips).  However, I'd take heart form things like Beeby and Dyer's awesome version that things can change:

(https://downthetubes.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/2000AD-1993-Anderson-768x1010.jpg)
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Blue Cactus 26 August, 2018, 10:15:25 AM
Good example. I think I'd feel more attached to/invested in the character now if she looked like that more often. It's a character who's grown as you've read her over the years, showing her experience on her face and posture, something I love in Joe Dredd and Love and Rockets. Dyer's Anderson is experienced and you can see how she grew out of the character we first met.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Jim_Campbell 26 August, 2018, 10:43:23 AM
Beeny was always Hispanic, but in her first few stories she looked white -- just like plenty of other Hispanics, including her own mother.

Right. So what you're saying is: you're not complaining about Beeny changing race, because you acknowledge that she's never done that, even though you originally said she did, but now you're complaining that different artists draw her within the commonly accepted parameters of her ethnicity but inconsistently with respect to each other? Have I got that right? It seems an oddly specific thing to get your panties in a bunch about, but, hey, it's a free world.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: TordelBack 26 August, 2018, 11:23:11 AM
I also don't think America Jara was particularly pasty as originally depicted, and certainly Tony and Alvira (sp?) were almost stereotypically Puerto Rican (I was always vaguely disappointed they didn't hail from Mega Rico, or Puerto Meg or some such - a real place seemed a bit on the nose in a quasi-allegory whose protagonist was already called America).  So any change in Ami's inherited skin-colour since Cadet is just a necessary correction.

Compare her to L'il Beeny and Judge Thug here.

(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fstatic.comicvine.com%2Fuploads%2Foriginal%2F0%2F6063%2F4733073-preview%2Bjudge%2Bdredd%2B-%2Bamerica-page-011.jpg&f=1)
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Richard 26 August, 2018, 11:57:55 AM
Fair enough. I'd misrecollected.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: JayzusB.Christ 26 August, 2018, 02:24:53 PM
Me too, to be honest.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: JOE SOAP 26 August, 2018, 02:41:00 PM

No doubt poor old Alan Craddock will get the blame.

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/judge-dredd/images/f/f8/America_Beeny_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160403211820)
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Frank 26 August, 2018, 02:54:31 PM
No doubt poor old Alan Craddock will get the blame.

The important point is that Craddock coloured her the same as her mum*. And Fading Of The Light and Cadet make a point of saying she's the spitting image of her mum. So, the correct answer to the question 'what colour should Judge Beeny's skin be?' is 'the same colour as her mum'.

Just as a general point of order, Beeny's half Puerto Rican and half ginger. She could legitimately have been portrayed as either or anywhere in-between, but since her resemblance to her Maw is a story point, let's go ahead and say the current situation is probably right.

Although, of course, nobody (even MacNeil) really draws her looking much like her mum at all. MacNeil's art on America is beautiful beyond words, but his character design for Ami is so odd - a product of his style and the media he was using - not even he can draw the character in that way anymore.


* Well, her dad, but in her mum's body ...
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: JayzusB.Christ 26 August, 2018, 02:56:08 PM
Hmmmm.  Alan Craddock gets a lot of stick given that he was plying his craft at the early, experimental era of digital comic colouring.

On the other hand, I fecking hated his work, and it was everywhere.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Steve Green 26 August, 2018, 03:07:07 PM

No doubt poor old Alan Craddock will get the blame.

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/judge-dredd/images/f/f8/America_Beeny_2.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20160403211820)

Well since she had a chameleon thing maybe it's a case of owners looking like their pets.
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Proudhuff 20 September, 2018, 10:43:11 AM
Hershey was 38 as far as i can remember in the cal files, she kind of looks the same now. Shouldn't she look more like a woman in her 50s? can't imagine a judge would would be too bothered about looking more mature.

and if you think that's iffy, check out Anderson in Megazine 400... 40 years fight the worse mentalist in MC1 and she looks ready for Freshers Week  :-\
: Re: Women don't age in dredd universe?
: Proudhuff 25 September, 2018, 03:20:47 PM
and again in Prog 2100  :-\