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2000 AD => News => : Frank 15 May, 2019, 07:58:17 AM

: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 15 May, 2019, 07:58:17 AM

John Wagner and Alan Hebden panel at Enniskillen Comic Convention (https://youtu.be/Q0DJUVjLSO0?t=2029)

Wagner wants editorial to continue Strontium Dog without his involvement*. He says Carlos's family should receive royalties from future stories - if Tharg's prepared to bend his rules and pay creators royalties when others use company-owned characters, he gets major Good Guy points.

More interesting, to me, is Wagner's desire to continue Ezquerra's Spector (https://i.imgur.com/jx5kvKX.png) character with either Colin MacNeil or Simon Coleby.


* It's interesting that, in this case, it's editorial who were reluctant to carry on making cash by passing the character on to another creator. It's a Bizarro World version of how things usually play out in the comic industry
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Dark Jimbo 15 May, 2019, 08:10:37 AM
Hmm. So conflicted. Obviously I want more Strontium Dog; obviously I want Carlos done right by; do I want Stront without Ezquerra or Wagner? Really not sure.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 15 May, 2019, 08:24:58 AM
Hmm. So conflicted. Obviously I want more Strontium Dog; obviously I want Carlos done right by; do I want Stront without Ezquerra or Wagner? Really not sure.

To be honest, I wouldn't really have been interested in more Stronty Dog without Ezquerra - it was his strip much more than Wagner's*. It's difficult to think of a strip more defined by the personality and idiosyncrasies of a creator outside the world of US indie comix.

It'd take a special kind of dick to argue that the Ezquerra family shouldn't continue to benefit from his creation, just to protect his Special Feelings, though.


* or Grant, who always seems to get written out of discussion of Strontium Dog, for some reason
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Dark Jimbo 15 May, 2019, 08:34:26 AM
It'd take a special kind of dick to argue that the Ezquerra family shouldn't continue to benefit from his creation, just to protect his Special Feelings, though.

 :lol: True.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: broodblik 15 May, 2019, 10:20:08 AM
Without Ezquerra or Wagner Strontium Dog cannot exists. As Frank said Ezquerra art was what made the strip
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: SIP 15 May, 2019, 10:30:59 AM
I actually think that it could carry on with a different artist, but I wouldn't want to see it continue without John Wagner.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: ZenArcade 15 May, 2019, 10:34:25 AM
Simon Harrison.....just saying. Z
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 15 May, 2019, 10:35:57 AM
Without Ezquerra or Wagner Strontium Dog cannot exists. As Frank said Ezquerra art was what made the strip

There are lots of fans, who love Ezquerra and the strip as much as you and me, who feel differently. I tried to get a discussion going about it here (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=45535.0) and here (https://forums.2000ad.com/index.php?topic=44818.0).

Like I say, I won't be moaning if Casa Ezquerra gets a new conservatory out of it.


: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: SIP 15 May, 2019, 10:43:55 AM
Carlos is the definitive visualisation of the character, no argument frin me. It's my all time favourite comic character and strip, but there have been other fantastic depictions of him, from Bolland to Colin Macneil, Kev Walker to Chris Weston. You could tell further significant Johnny Alpha tales, with recognition, financial or otherwise, to the mighty Carlos.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: SIP 15 May, 2019, 10:48:06 AM
Kev Walker, Colin Macneil or Henry Flint would do a killer job of it I bet.

Or how about Phil Winslade, the lawless artwork is incredible.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 15 May, 2019, 11:08:33 AM

The argument isn't that no other artist (or writer) could do a decent job of taking up the reins. I liked Harrison, MacNeil and McCarthy's turns holding Carlos's beer.

As brave US publishers have proven time and time again, no creator is irreplaceable. How you feel about that probably depends on your history as a reader - mine is 90% 2000ad* or creator-owned comics, which means I'm coming at this burdened with preconceptions like a Mexican burro.


* Even Tharg's general habit of ending strips when writers, if not artists, moved on had notable exceptions over the years, although few worked out well for the creators or the readers. Poor Rogue Trooper.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: IAMTHESYSTEM 15 May, 2019, 11:12:12 AM
It's up to John Wagner and Rebellion I guess if they want to produce another Strontium Dog strip. I can live with a new artist or even a new writer since I believe in different creators producing their vision of the same character. That's not to everyone's tastes mind, but if it is the end of SD then that's okay there are tons of Ezquerra episodes for us to re-read or encounter for the first time.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: SIP 15 May, 2019, 11:44:45 AM
It's a moot point for me really, as the death of Carlos signalled the final blow to me reading the prog (after a protracted decline in my passion), with the Wagner/Ezquerra strontium dog resurgence being my reason for continuing.

I think if Wagner is making a clean break from Strontium Dog too, it would mark the end of that era and it might be interesting, with Wagner and the Ezquerra family blessing, for readers to see a different creative team work on new stories.

I imagine that the end of strontium dog would not make as significant impact on 2000ad as say the end of Dredd would.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: IndigoPrime 15 May, 2019, 12:34:59 PM
I think if Wagner’s OK with it – even enthusiastic about it – AND Matt Smith changes his mind because of that AND they get the right creative teams on board, fine. The issue is how you subsequently handle the property. Dredd was mostly Wagner’s, but never about one artist – and now it’s not really Wagner’s any more. Strontium Dog was Wagner and/or Grant+Ezquerra for the vast majority of its run. I wouldn’t want another artist to ape Ezquerra, but you’d need artists who can nail the character (not just the people – but of the strip as a whole).

Would it become a house character with a rota of creators, or would 2000 AD seek to get regulars on board? And if the latter (which would seem a smarter move with such an important strip), how enduring could that be? All tough questions, and I don’t think there are any obvious nor easy answers.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Steve Green 15 May, 2019, 12:57:10 PM
I don't have an easy answer on this - I guess if you're going to do it, it would be preferable to have a single artist on a run at least if not for the new creative team, at least to make their mark. Rather than ABC Warriors it with an artist here, and an artist there.

The record on new creative teams taking over characters is patchy to say the least though.

Up until now, and for those reasons it seemed best to leave it be, but if it doesn't work out it's not going to erase what I've enjoyed over the decades, and considering I've worked on fanfic at John's request and with Carlos' blessing, I'd be a bit hypocritical to object to someone else doing the same, even if they are getting paid to do it.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Magnetica 15 May, 2019, 01:02:44 PM
I have been re-reading some Strontium Dog recently and it strikes me that Ezquerra’s genius was as much in the design of the secondary characters, both other Strontium Dogs and other characters encountered on various worlds. As good a jobs as other artists mentioned would do, it just won’t have the same feel.

I would not like to see someone else try to copy Carlos. I think they would need to put there own mark on it. A bit like Bryan Talbot did following Kevin O’Neill on Nemesis.

As to who would write it - there seems to be very little mention of Alan Grant. For me he would be the obvious choice of Wagner doesn’t want to do it. Sorry if there are other reasons why he couldn’t do it.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: maryanddavid 15 May, 2019, 01:23:16 PM
Personally I think  this is great news, if JW has given his blessing. It would be a shame IMO to leave Carlos' greatest creation to reprint volumes.
If it is to happen, I'd like to see a 'Legends of The Dark Knight' style ie standalone stories, not messing with continuity. No idea who could fill Wagner shoes, but Chris Weston would get my vote on art.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 15 May, 2019, 01:59:24 PM
.. there seems to be very little mention of Alan Grant. For me he would be the obvious choice of Wagner doesn’t want to do it. Sorry if there are other reasons why he couldn’t do it.

It seems like Alan Grant has other things going on in his life.

Completely agree that it's the totality of his craft that created the symbiotic relationship between Ezquerra and Strontium Dog. It's not a matter of specific designs; the distinctive way action scenes are staged and framed are essential to the way I enjoy those stories.

We all agree this is a difficult task, which is, presumably, why Tharg said he didn't think it'd happen. *


* ... but that it was up to John Wagner
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: broodblik 15 May, 2019, 02:07:37 PM
What happened to Grant ? He for me wrote the best SD stories when he did the strip solo (except the Final Solution). On art I can see that either Weston or MacNeil will work.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 15 May, 2019, 02:16:22 PM
What happened to Grant ? He for me wrote the best SD stories when he did the strip solo (except the Final Solution).

Alan Grant took over as regular script droid on Strontium Dog with 'Death's Head' in 2000AD Prog 178. Why did you give up writing Strontium Dog?

We were still writing them together, though they appeared under Alan’s name. In the same way the Dredds appeared under my name but we actually co-wrote almost all of them during that time. As you say, whoever did the typing got the cash. We had a ‘red book’ in which we balanced it all up. It makes an interesting read, a real trip down memory lane.

http://homepage.eircom.net/~okku/scifi/jwagner.htm


: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: AlexF 15 May, 2019, 02:30:53 PM
Strong second for Phil Winslade as a fella would could definitely bring something new and yet respectful to the Johnny Alpha table. Assuming Alan Grant isn't interested in tackling the writing duties (and if he is, I hope he decides to resurrect Feral just for the sake of a cheeky dig at Wagner :D), are there perhaps any new voices from the pages of Dogbreath who might just be ready for the big stage..?

I note no one seems to be sad about the new Durham Red strips continuing, with good work from Worley, Willsher and Carter. Is that not, in a way, a continuation of Strontium Dog?
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 15 May, 2019, 03:16:31 PM
... no one seems to be sad about the new Durham Red strips continuing, with good work from Worley, Willsher and Carter. Is that not, in a way, a continuation of Strontium Dog?

You, of all readers, don't need reminded that Red's already had a quarter century of Horst (https://i.imgur.com/O2fA9xE.png)ing. Others feel differently, but I don't see the many different ginger vampire strips as the further adventures of Johnny Alpha's girlfriend. *

Wagner seems to be suggesting a direct continuation of the Johnny Alpha saga, rather than a reboot or Strontium Dogs (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=thrill&page=profiles&choice=STRONTS) (the comics equivalent of Jeremy Renner's Bourne (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSzy9qQ3mDE) sequel).


* In the same way nobody gets bent about the MCU's Captain America being buried in ice while Marvel Cap was punching hippies.  They're just different things, so there's no point trying to make them slot together.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: broodblik 15 May, 2019, 03:37:20 PM
What happened to Grant ? He for me wrote the best SD stories when he did the strip solo (except the Final Solution).

Alan Grant took over as regular script droid on Strontium Dog with 'Death's Head' in 2000AD Prog 178. Why did you give up writing Strontium Dog?

We were still writing them together, though they appeared under Alan’s name. In the same way the Dredds appeared under my name but we actually co-wrote almost all of them during that time. As you say, whoever did the typing got the cash. We had a ‘red book’ in which we balanced it all up. It makes an interesting read, a real trip down memory lane.

http://homepage.eircom.net/~okku/scifi/jwagner.htm

Thank you Frank. As always, you are a fountain of knowledge  :thumbsup:
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Dark Jimbo 15 May, 2019, 04:07:06 PM
What happened to Grant ? He for me wrote the best SD stories when he did the strip solo (except the Final Solution).

Alan Grant took over as regular script droid on Strontium Dog with 'Death's Head' in 2000AD Prog 178. Why did you give up writing Strontium Dog?

We were still writing them together, though they appeared under Alan’s name.

Thank you Frank. As always, you are a fountain of knowledge  :thumbsup:

Yep, the only stories Grant wrote solo were The Stone Killers, Incident On Zeta, The No-Go Job and Final Solution (plus a load of the annual stories).

I have to say I don't often see those appearing on too many 'favourite story' lists!
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Richard 15 May, 2019, 04:22:31 PM
Yes, and also look at his Samantha Slade: Robo-hunter stories. No thanks.

Chris Weston had recently shown us how another artist can take over Strontium Dog and make it work. But with all due respect to Matt Smith who wrote a good one-off, I'm not sure how I'd feel about a ten episode series of Strontium Dog written by someone who isn't John Wagner.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 15 May, 2019, 04:56:14 PM
... the only stories Grant wrote solo were The Stone Killers, Incident On Zeta, The No-Go Job and Final Solution (plus a load of the annual stories).

(https://i.imgur.com/SBtVTdG.png?2)

Sorry, mate; I'm a dick. Zeta seems similar to Armageddon (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=thrill&page=profiles&choice=armaged) in the Megazine; Alan Grant adding dialogue to scenarios and characters devised by Ezquerra. And yeah, Richard; other creators could fashion decent stories. *

All nerves would be calmed if Williams & Weston took over the strip. Replace them with Abnett & Flint and we'd be hailing it as fitting tribute to a legend. The problem comes when Stront becomes a slot Tharg needs to fill with whoever's available.

Any strip that goes on long enough becomes Hawkman.


* As someone always says in these discussions, this kind of thing happens all the time in other comics. And someone always replies that they don't want 2000ad to be just like every other comic. It's the same dynamic as the Dredd ageing in real time debate, basically
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: ZenArcade 15 May, 2019, 04:56:30 PM
Dark Jimbo: 'Yep, the only stories Grant wrote solo were The Stone Killers, Incident On Zeta, The No-Go Job and Final Solution (plus a load of the annual stories).

I have to say I don't often see those appearing on too many 'favorite story' lists!'

I personally find the No Go Job one of my all time favorite 2000AD stories.  The story is engaging and sets up the 'Final Solution' excellently.  The art by Harrison is to die for and who could not be touched by the sad passing of that lovable wee rogue: Dougal the Dug. Z
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Dark Jimbo 15 May, 2019, 05:09:10 PM
As to who would write it - there seems to be very little mention of Alan Grant. For me he would be the obvious choice of Wagner doesn’t want to do it. Sorry if there are other reasons why he couldn’t do it.

I can't find a mention of it anywhere now, but I've got the impression (from somewhere) that Alan's all but retired these days?
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Richard 15 May, 2019, 07:27:55 PM
He did some Anderson one-offs in progs 2000 and 2100 and Megazine 400, but other recent Anderson stories, including multi-episode ones, have been by other people, so I think you're right.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Leigh S 15 May, 2019, 08:05:47 PM
OK, then - I'll do it... :crazy:

I think Stront could go on without Carlos, but without John and Carlos?  Tough

As others have said though, if it was the herald of a new way of working these kind of things, with some level of financial recognition to the original creators, then who am I to stand in the way? 

Certainly from an artist point of view, MacNeil and Weston have both shown they could take it somewhere respectful but different.  I think replacing Wagner at the same time would be a huge ask, though if care was taken to find a sympathetic writer to go with a sympathetic artist

Going for "past tales" rather than continuing on from with Kenton and Johnny might be better as a start though we all recall the minor griping about that when it was the dream team doing it!
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Colin YNWA 15 May, 2019, 08:09:25 PM
If it has the go ahead from John Wagner and benefits the family Ezquerra, with there blessing, I see absolutely no reason why not.

Any judgement on the form, style and type of story and by whom I'll leave until I read them.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Tjm86 15 May, 2019, 08:25:10 PM
TBH I feel for any artist / writer who tries to take on the task of reviving SD at present.  Too many of us grew up with the Grover / Ezquerra version.  To fill Carlos' art shoes requires an extraordinary talent.  The few times it has happened have not gone down well (consider that one of those that tried was Ian Gibson!).

I would argue that the character needs a good hiatus before anyone tries to revive him.  Anyone who tries in the next few years is going to be judged against an insanely high yardstick.  A few years down the road and enough of us KOS's will be nostalgic enough to accept the revival.  Filling those shoes is going to be a major challenge.  Time will at least give anyone trying a fighting chance.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: broodblik 15 May, 2019, 08:26:17 PM
He did some Anderson one-offs in progs 2000 and 2100 and Megazine 400, but other recent Anderson stories, including multi-episode ones, have been by other people, so I think you're right.

He also did two Anderson stories in the Meg from 380-390
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Magnetica 15 May, 2019, 08:34:47 PM
Going for "past tales" rather than continuing on from with Kenton and Johnny might be better as a start though we all recall the minor griping about that when it was the dream team doing it!

The previous revival was "past tales". Personally I liked them, but there were many who said they couldn't buy into them as they knew there was zero chance of Johnny getting killed.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: TordelBack 15 May, 2019, 08:38:34 PM
'Nother fan of The No-Go Job here, one of the best SD stories. 

Obviously anyone could continue SD, with Rebellion's, Wagner's and the Ezquerra family' blessing, many fine candidates mentioned above.

But aside from super-sharp little one-offs like TMO and Weston's entry in the Villains' Special, I personally have no interest in reading them. For me Johnny's story ended when Carlos' did, and sadly that seems unlikely to change.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 15 May, 2019, 08:54:13 PM
Going for "past tales" rather than continuing on from with Kenton and Johnny might be better

David's idea* of out-of-continuity stories or an Ultimate Strontium Dog approach seem like the best ways of attracting top creators, letting them play with all the toys they want without triggering the butterfly effect of fannying about in the strip's history.

But continuity is a deal-breaker for some, and you have the problem of those Rogue Trooper do-overs, where nothing felt like it really mattered. Which, as Magnetica says, was a problem (for some) with pre-resurrection Dog, too.

Keeping new stories as a treat for special occasions, in the way Ace Trucking and Robohunter pop up in Specials, might help, but someone who isn't really interested in new stories probably isn't best placed to figure how to make them work. See also: Brexit.


* but not Mary's
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Greg M. 15 May, 2019, 08:55:13 PM

But aside from super-sharp little one-offs like TMO and Weston's entry in the Villains' Special, I personally have no interest in reading them. For me Johnny's story ended when Carlos' did, and sadly that seems unlikely to change.

Agreed. Obviously the practical consideration of providing money for Carlos's family trumps any other concern - if that indeed happens, then by all means, go for it. However if people want to honour Carlos's legacy, they should do what Carlos seemingly enjoyed the most - create new characters of their own.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Magnetica 15 May, 2019, 11:51:52 PM
Yes indeed, but it’s not that easy.

How about a character that tracks down fugitives that have run away from the authorities, or maybe skipped bail? Maybe give him some psi powers for good measure. Then add in some backstory about what he did during the war and his relationship with his brother. That sounds like a winner....
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Fungus 16 May, 2019, 03:13:25 AM
if people want to honour Carlos's legacy, they should do what Carlos seemingly enjoyed the most - create new characters of their own.

This.
There's a spread of opinion, so swathes of readers will read any rejigged SD through gritted teeth. It has no chance.
We seem to have returning volumes of just about everything, even jumping-on progs offer little that's *new*.
What would Carlos do ?-)
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: AlexF 16 May, 2019, 12:51:24 PM
Assuming that the question on the table is whether or not to continue telling the story of Johnny Alpha, what actually is the status quo of Strontium Dog as things stand?

He's come back to life, and more or less worked through his emotional issues about being dead for a while. His current best buddy Middenface is more or less surviving as a recovering alcoholic. He seems to be working for the SD Agency again, and has lately taken Wulf's son under his wing as a bounty-hunter in training.

Are we essentially back to where things were at the beginning of StarLord - i.e. telling tales of Bounty Hunting on frontier worlds, with the occasional trip to future Britain where everything is super racist against mutants? 'cos that's fine and all, but I kinda want a writer who'd dare to explore more world-building stuff about human-mutant relations on Earth (and around the galaxy) etc...

Basically, I want more 'Strontium Dog as war comics', less 'Strontium Dog as wild west comics'. On balance, I'll take what I'm given!
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: The Legendary Shark 16 May, 2019, 01:05:01 PM

How about Wild West War Stories?

: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 16 May, 2019, 04:57:21 PM

Nobody's entertained the possibility that Tharg might say no.

You'd expect any publisher to be chomping at the bit to remonetise their IP, but look at the mixed reaction here.  Tharg could throw his very best creators at this and ingrates like me would still make a face like someone farted.

That'd mean ten episodes less of Williams/Flint Dredd in 2020, and all Tharg would have to show for it is a strip with the same overall approval rating as Helltrekkers. And top creators might make the same calculation.


: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Dash Decent 17 May, 2019, 06:58:29 AM
Does that mean Abnett/Flint are free to work on Halo Jones book IV?
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: IndigoPrime 17 May, 2019, 11:04:36 AM
To be fair to Tharg, there’s a world of difference between a key creator, alongside Ezquerra’s family, saying “actually, they should continue this” versus continuing a strip created by two people who want nothing further to do with 2000 AD, and who would be against such a thing happening.

I think Matt Smith has acted honourably and respectfully on this issue. Ultimately, he could have said “well, Strontium Dog is very popular, and so we’re going to be doing new stories”, but he didn’t. Even now, the only new thing we’ve had has been a Regened semi-reboot episode, and the Stix story. Perhaps they were intended to test the water; I dunno. But it’s an unenviable position to be in, because whatever choice is made, it’ll annoy some people.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: broodblik 17 May, 2019, 11:30:18 AM
Just imagine if SD was owned by one of the American publishers. We would not have this discussion we would discuss how true the new version was compared to the old one.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Steve Green 17 May, 2019, 01:37:29 PM
To be fair to Tharg, there’s a world of difference between a key creator, alongside Ezquerra’s family, saying “actually, they should continue this” versus continuing a strip created by two people who want nothing further to do with 2000 AD, and who would be against such a thing happening.

I think Matt Smith has acted honourably and respectfully on this issue. Ultimately, he could have said “well, Strontium Dog is very popular, and so we’re going to be doing new stories”, but he didn’t. Even now, the only new thing we’ve had has been a Regened semi-reboot episode, and the Stix story. Perhaps they were intended to test the water; I dunno. But it’s an unenviable position to be in, because whatever choice is made, it’ll annoy some people.

I believe Chris said the Stix story had Carlos' blessing.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: IndigoPrime 17 May, 2019, 01:49:15 PM
Well, there you go. He said OK and it happened. Now John is saying “do more, but please ensure Carlos’s family benefit somehow”. I honestly don’t mind either way on this, but it’s good that avenues are open. And as broodblik said, if this were a big US publisher, this likely wouldn’t even be a conversation anyway. (A nice counterpoint, too, to recent suggestions Rebellion is somehow the big evil.)
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 17 May, 2019, 07:18:23 PM
Just imagine if SD was owned by one of the American publishers. We would not have this discussion we would discuss how true the new version was compared to the old one.

Just imagine if Strontium Dog had been a strip John Smith created.


: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Rogue Judge 18 May, 2019, 01:02:32 AM
I've only been reading 2000ad for a few years, but Strontium Dog has become my favorite comic (not just my favorite 2000ad strip, my favorite comic period).

I'm current reading the SD novel 'Among the Missing' by Matt Smith and loving every minute; the neat thing being my mind creates the images for the story and all I see are Carlos' characters, environments and art. It will always be Carlos who comes to mind, no matter what.

With that said, I do want more Strontium Dog with Alpha. More glowing eyes, more mutants, more space western. I hope we haven't seen the last of SD.

My obvious creator vote would be Wagner and MacNeil. I think Henry Flint would be a top pick as well.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Rogue Judge 18 May, 2019, 02:39:27 AM
I'm current reading the SD novel 'Among the Missing' by Matt Smith and loving every minute

My point here, was that I would enjoy SD even at the hands of other creators, if done well. Smith/Flint SD, for example...
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Robin Low 18 May, 2019, 08:54:17 AM
I don't post much these days, but I've posted a lot about Strontium Dog over the years. I have a lot of favourites in 2000AD, but SD is the only one that I rank alongside Dredd. That said I've been in two minds about posting anything about this.

Quickly, with regard to Ezquerra's family benefiting financially from future stories that sound great to me. But that's a business decision for others. Our opinions may have a subtle influence, but that's all.

I love Strontium Dog. My first exposure to it was in Best of 2000AD Monthly issue 6, The Gronk Affair (I thought I was suffering false memory syndrome, as it's not listed by Barney as reprinted there, but I dug out my copy and there it is). This is perhaps why I'm so fond of the Gronk, even though some consider him out of place.

I'm in a minority, I think, that was content (not happy) with Alpha's death and the way it happened. I love Simon Harrison's art. I also enjoyed Garth Ennis' and Peter Hogan's continuation of the series (although I still consider Dan Abnett's Durham Red follow-up rubbish). I could find some complaints, but overall it just felt right, even though its release schedule did it no favours. Not that he cares what I think, I'll never forgive Dave Bishop for the way he dealt with the series, even though I'll always respect him for turning the comic around after years of decline.

I was very happy to see Wagner's return to SD and his untold stories of Alpha and co. Unlike some, I never had a problem with knowing he wasn't going to die. In countless stories, we know that Dredd isn't going to die, but we still enjoy them. Hell, we didn't think Alpha was going to die, which was why it was such a shock.

The problem for me arrived with the resurrection. There were a lot of things I liked in that story, and in the subsequent ones. But I can't get over Wagner's refusal to engage with the storylines created by Ennis and Hogan. The really frustrating thing is that with a bit of thought Wagner could have done pretty much the same story and tied it into those stories. I can do it, so a writer of Wagner's calibre could have done it.

But it didn't happen, and that's that. Nothing is ruined and my childhood (or rather my teens to be precise) is safe and sound. It's all fine. It's just not for me any more - I enjoy Wagner's SD, but there's always a nagging thought of what might have been. The same goes for the recent Durham Red series. Nothing really wrong with it, it's just not for me. Not anymore.

So, where do I stand on continuing the series?

Hard reboot for a fresh, young audience. Do something like Grumpy Uncle Gordon did with Pa Angel in the Megazine (fuck that was good, even if its links to the original were tenuous.)

The last SD story with Alpha and Kenton was a bittersweet story that makes for an elegantly simple and happy conclusion to the series. I'll miss it, but I don't need anymore.

Thank-you John and Alan, thank-you Carlos, Simon and Colin. Thank-you Garth and Peter, thank-you Steve, Nigel and Mark. Thank-you everyone else who wrote and drew one-offs, spin-offs, fill-ins and covers. I loved what you did. I always will.

Regards,

Robin
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Jim_Campbell 18 May, 2019, 11:56:24 AM
Just imagine if Strontium Dog had been a strip John Smith created.

I would politely venture that there is a substantial difference between being respectful of the handling of a character when one of its creators, a much-loved one, has died suddenly, and running out of patience with a creator who had been promising scripts for five years and not delivering and who had ignored repeated warnings that the strips would be reassigned if something wasn't forthcoming.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: JayzusB.Christ 18 May, 2019, 01:19:42 PM
Just imagine if Strontium Dog had been a strip John Smith created.

I would politely venture that there is a substantial difference between being respectful of the handling of a character when one of its creators, a much-loved one, has died suddenly, and running out of patience with a creator who had been promising scripts for five years and not delivering and who had ignored repeated warnings that the strips would be reassigned if something wasn't forthcoming.

Which reminds me of the one (afaik) time John Smith did Strontium Dogs. It was a text story in a special, and as was the case with most of his text stories,  it was excellent.   I really wish he'd come back to the prog.

As for continuing Strontium Dog without Carlos, well, personally I was never really happy about the undoing of his messianic death anyway.  But that's done and dusted now - I think Colin McNeil could do the job if it was to continue.  His Johnny was always spot on.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 18 May, 2019, 02:53:08 PM
Thank-you John and Alan, thank-you Carlos, Simon and Colin. Thank-you Garth and Peter, thank-you Steve, Nigel and Mark. Thank-you everyone else who wrote and drew one-offs, spin-offs, fill-ins and covers. I loved what you did. I always will.

I don't share your affection for Strontium Dogs*, but I'm in the parking bay right beside yours at the Place Of Peace, happy to gaze into the rear-view mirror and reflect on the forty years of Carlos we're so lucky to have.

No version of Sevco (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ownership_of_Rangers_F.C.#Current_company_overview)-Strontium Dog interests me, but I'm happy for others to enjoy it (if it ever happens)


* ... and I thought Wagner's total disregard for the corporate mess created in his absence was very, very funny. For the purposes of nuance: I love Simon Harrison, Steve Pugh's and Mark Harrison's art, I think Monsters is a decent story in its own right, but I would be very happy if The Final Solution - which is great - had been the last ever Strontium Dog story.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Swerty 19 May, 2019, 10:23:17 PM
I'd love to see it in the prog every week to be honest.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: sheridan 20 May, 2019, 01:28:43 PM
Funnily enough, nobody has suggested the writer that Wagner* said could do a decent job of it.

Michael Carroll.

Wagner also mentioned a couple of artists, but unfortunatley I didn't make a note of them.

* in answer to a question at Lawless, if not Enniskillen also.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: sheridan 20 May, 2019, 01:37:59 PM
...and for my take on everything else.

I rate No-Go/Final Solution in my favourite SD stories (I consider the two to be one story).

I liked Strontium Dogs, and this would be my preferred route for post-Ezquerra Doghouse/SD-era stories (including Middenface, the Tendring Fuzz family, Red and whomever else is still alive).

If Wagner and Ezquerra's family are fine with it, then I'd be also be fine with the continuing adventures of Johnny and Kenton, at the hands of Carroll and whichever established artist is available to draw.  I would not want less established artists to handle art duties - Future Shocks and one-off Dredds are their testing grounds, as they have been for many years.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Judge Olde 20 May, 2019, 11:36:04 PM
I really enjoyed SD over the years. Carlos was amazing. Final Solution was a story I struggled to get into, I found Simon Harrisons art hard to follow, though I did like elements of it - then Colin came onboard & I was blown away, then Johnny sacrificed himself - I was gutted, the story made a huge impression on me - literally it was the longest time I can remember between progs. I know it wasn't Wagner, but the story had me. Something very different had happened.

I read & found the return of Alpha less enjoyable, it was far from awful - but for me it had lost something. I think it would be interesting to explore some other characters from the rebuilt doghouse, perhaps someone like Carroll could create decent reoccurring characters in the SD world, perhaps interacting with other already introduced characters. It'd be great if it benefited Carlos' family too (of course)
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 21 May, 2019, 06:40:47 AM

(https://i.imgur.com/C3vrNEq.png?2)


: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: IAMTHESYSTEM 21 May, 2019, 08:35:40 AM
That is incredible work capturing the 'mean' Bounty Hunter look of Johnny Alpha and Wulf.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Bolt-01 21 May, 2019, 10:47:59 AM
I've been staring at this for literally days. It is astounding.

I'll post a proper copy to the FQP thread once it is all signed off, and a copy of it without the logo too.

This issue of Dogbreath, the longest continually running 2000 AD fanzine, will be on sale in July and also features Kev Hopgood on writing duties among our line-up.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: MacabreMagpie 21 May, 2019, 11:42:44 AM
Stunning cover, Dave, what a treat!
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: SIP 21 May, 2019, 03:49:39 PM
That's fantastic.  If I saw a "thrills of the future" in the prog with THAT picture......I'd be really looking forward to it.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Bolt-01 21 May, 2019, 04:17:09 PM
Thanks chaps - have to admit that getting Colin to draw a cover for Dogbreath has always been a 'grail' moment for me.

(I did ask Carlos, a few years ago at ICE, but he politely turned me down.)
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Rogue Judge 22 May, 2019, 12:21:05 AM
Wow, that cover is a stunner! I'd pick it up for that alone.

Bolt, this this available at conventions only? I'd like to get a copy but live across the Atlantic.

Cheers
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: TordelBack 22 May, 2019, 08:38:48 AM
There's me earnestlydeclaring that I have no interest in post-Ezquerra, and then Colin's cover has me drooling...
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Bolt-01 22 May, 2019, 08:47:52 AM
Rogue, Dogbreath happily travels wherever it can. You can get both Zarjaz & Dogbreath from the link in my sig.

I've no issues at all with send copies over the water, so once the issue is on sale, drop me an email and we can make it happen.

Cheers
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Richard 22 May, 2019, 01:39:33 PM
This is why we need more SD in the prog.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Rogue Judge 22 May, 2019, 02:35:37 PM
Good news, thanks Bolt. It would be great if you could do a limited print or something with that image as well!
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: SIP 22 May, 2019, 08:30:50 PM
Two of my favourites drawing Strontium Dog this week! Fantastic.

(https://i.ibb.co/gPF9fNk/20190522-180043.jpg) (https://ibb.co/YyTQ1mH)
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: SIP 22 May, 2019, 09:02:42 PM
For clarity, as in another fantastic drawing.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Mikey 24 May, 2019, 04:57:26 PM
As a matter of record, that was me asking the question :) You're welcome.

I think Carrol and MacNeil could potentially deliver something great with Strontium Dog, but my wistful circuits would also, if it ever happened, like it to not be about Johnny in honour & memory of Carlos.

: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 24 May, 2019, 05:51:26 PM
As a matter of record, that was me asking the question :) You're welcome.

I think Carrol and MacNeil could potentially deliver something great with Strontium Dog, but my wistful circuits would also, if it ever happened, like it to not be about Johnny in honour & memory of Carlos.

Cheers, Mikey. That's (sort of) how Ezquerra felt:

I don't mind them giving my characters to other artists, except maybe Strontium Dog - it's a character I love very much. The problem is that when you change from one artist to another, you change the personality - it's a different character.

Even secondary characters, like Middenface McNulty and Durham Red, have their own personalities. They made a series with Durham Red but they changed her so much it was another character.

Mark Harrison did a great job, but it was nothing to do with the character. They even changed the time she was living. They should have given her a new name and done her as a different character. That happened with Strontium Dogs, too.


Carlos Ezquerra, speaking to Julius Howe's Inky Fingers Podcast (http://ecbt2000ad.libsyn.com/inky-fingers-carlos-ezquerra-tribute-show)

That seems cut and dried, to me. The only complication is Wagner's proposal of paying the Ezquerra estate a royalty on any new stories created, which Carlos couldn't possibly have foreseen.

The only good reason I can see to do more Doggy at all is to fling the Ezquerras a few dollars more. Given that rationale, it's difficult to argue against featuring Johnny Alpha front and centre, given what happened on previous occasions Tharg tried to Jaegir the Dogverse. *


* The obvious example is the little-loved Strontium Dogs mess, but Tales Of The Doghouse (http://www.2000ad.org/?zone=thrill&page=profiles&Comic=2000AD&choice=DOGHOUSE) were a joyless bit of editorial dick-swinging, as far as I was concerned. I know other fine people - there are some very fine people on both sides (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/trump-defends-white-nationalist-protesters-some-very-fine-people-on-both-sides/537012/) - feel differently. Regardless, nobody would argue they enjoyed the success or longevity of the original strip, and if New Stront isn't successful and long-running, it won't achieve the primary objective of continuing the strip - keeping Senora Ezquerra in bingo money.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Dash Decent 25 May, 2019, 07:14:38 AM
I'm in the parking bay right beside yours at the Place Of Peace, happy to gaze into the rear-view mirror and reflect on the forty years of Carlos we're so lucky to have.

I've mused several times over the years how lucky I am to still be able to read new issues of a comic I read as a kid, still (in part) written and drawn by the amazing people from back then (as well as the equally amazing newer talent we've seen now and since).

Are there any uncollected (non-2000AD) stories illustrated by Ezquerra that Rebellion could release, in the same way they've brought out "Invasion 1984", "The 13th Floor", "Operation Overlord", etc?
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Steve Green 25 May, 2019, 08:16:11 AM
Rat Pack, Major Eazy, Comrade Bronski I think are the major ones from IPC.

Guess it depends how well El Mestizo sold.

Carlos also did some early work for DC Thomson with Chained to his Sword and Strongbow, but Rebellion wouldn't have any control over that.
: Re: Strontium Dog Without Wagner or Ezquerra
: Frank 25 May, 2019, 10:23:46 AM
Are there any uncollected (non-2000AD) stories illustrated by Ezquerra that Rebellion could release, in the same way they've brought out "Invasion 1984", "The 13th Floor", "Operation Overlord", etc?

Sickening to think that while the Bias BBC rakes in billions from the movies and merchandise based on the Russ Abbott Fun Book (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Abbots-Russ-Book-Peter-Vincent/dp/0563360569) (1990), the artists who created and drew the characters beloved by millions struggle to make ends meet.


(https://i.imgur.com/YVbYmqi.png?1)


Thanks to David (but not Mary) and Hibernia Comics (https://www.facebook.com/HiberniaComics/photos/a.335130923265078/669271273184373/?type=3&theater) for the scans. See the art without Forumblur (TM) here (https://i.imgur.com/0FOTIKd.png?1), here (https://i.imgur.com/hriQqal.png?1), here (https://i.imgur.com/x74Q7g6.png?1), and here (https://www.facebook.com/HiberniaComics/photos/a.335130923265078/669271273184373/?type=3&theater).