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Author Topic: The Political Thread  (Read 1015856 times)

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15495 on: 15 March, 2019, 03:39:16 pm »

The Amstor Computer

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15496 on: 15 March, 2019, 06:04:05 pm »

10,000 troops from 13 countries arrive in the UK for major exercise.

Timing...?

Timing of what? This is Exercise Joint Warrior, a multi-branch, multi-nation military exercise that has been running twice a year for over ten years (it was previously held three times a year under the title Neptune Warrior). There's nothing unusual about the size of the exercise or the time of year, as it's been roughly the same for ages, and there's certainly nothing unusual about the exercise itself.

Our local RAF station - RAF Lossiemouth - typically hosts the maritime patrol element, plus the occasional visiting fast-jet squadron, and the participants are up and down Scotland to Cape Wrath, the Tain AWR etc. so it's a familiar yearly event here. 

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15497 on: 15 March, 2019, 06:21:10 pm »

Hopefully. Although it doesn't hurt the government to have back-up on hand should article 222 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union, or somesuch, be invoked for some reason.



The Amstor Computer

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15498 on: 15 March, 2019, 06:30:09 pm »
I'm not 100% of the participants involved in this year's first exercise - Joint Warrior 19-1, which the linked article refers to - but it will be a mix of maritime patrol aircraft, small passenger jets used to mimic missiles/aggressor aircraft, some US helicopters, a couple of naval vessels etc., plus the hundreds of support personnel needed to bring them here and maintain them, all drawn from multiple friendly nations. They certainly aren't going to be drafted in as "back-up" should Brexit go any more tits-up than it already is.

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15499 on: 15 March, 2019, 07:15:16 pm »

The treaty allows for a government to request military aid should certain circumstances arise. That doesn't necessarily mean foreign troops on the "front lines" but would make it possible for them to be used in support roles, freeing up local troops for other, more direct duties.

I'm not saying this is going to happen or is even likely but that it gives the globalists an option should their plans go breasts aloft.

I've said before, I don't believe the UK will ever be allowed to leave the EU - most people are thoroughly sick of the last nearly three years of procrastination, misrepresentation and fearmongering and just want it to be over - but if the globalists can't save the "integrity" of the EU politically, they're not above setting the country on fire so they can come "riding to the rescue."

In my view,it's not about controlling every little thing, it's about influence and having contingency plans - and I think that's what this is.


radiator

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15500 on: 15 March, 2019, 07:34:24 pm »
Those bloody globalists, eh?

Jim_Campbell

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15501 on: 15 March, 2019, 07:43:42 pm »
most people are thoroughly sick of the last nearly three years of procrastination, misrepresentation and fearmongering and just want it to be over

There hasn't been a single opinion poll showing a majority for 'leave' since March 2018 — that's about 60 separate polls. They want it to be over in the sense that they'd just like us to abandon the whole stupid idea.
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Dandontdare

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15502 on: 15 March, 2019, 07:47:23 pm »

IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15503 on: 15 March, 2019, 08:00:08 pm »
There hasn't been a single opinion poll showing a majority for 'leave' since March 2018 — that's about 60 separate polls. They want it to be over in the sense that they'd just like us to abandon the whole stupid idea.
People just want Brexit to be done with. The thing is, unless article 50 is revoked, it won't ever be. Brexit is just the start of unending negotiation that will take over political capacity into the distant future. We'll never be rid of the fucking thing. (And almost none of the commentators think anything good's happening next week. Most are veering heavily towards May getting her deal through at the third attempt, mostly by bullshitting that there's a way out of the backstop if the UK fancies it.)

Jim_Campbell

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15504 on: 15 March, 2019, 08:12:47 pm »
Most are veering heavily towards May getting her deal through at the third attempt, mostly by bullshitting that there's a way out of the backstop if the UK fancies it.)

I genuinely have no idea why one single person in Westminster believes a single word that comes out of that woman's mouth. How many times does she have to give assurances, make promises, and then immediately do a 180° and completely fuck over anyone stupid enough to take her at her word before MPs realise that she can't be trusted on any scale of even the most basic human decency?
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Funt Solo

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15505 on: 15 March, 2019, 08:13:55 pm »
Weird conversation I overheard (somewhere):

Conspiracy theorist: these military drills are probably a nefarious government scheme to put down the populace because ... something something ... Brexit.

Person armed with facts: it's just a standard scheduled military drill and nothing to do with Brexit.

Conspiracy theorist: yeah, but the timing, yeah?  Probably there's a link to Brexit.

Person armed with facts: Nope. No connection whatsoever.

Conspiracy theorist: yeah, sure - but it's Europe, innit?  They're conspiring to set Britain on fire!
fate amenable to change

IndigoPrime

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15506 on: 15 March, 2019, 08:16:30 pm »
Jim: For me, it's not even about her lies anymore, but that it's making the UK look awful. So we're saying "hey, once we've left, we'd like some lovely FTAs", while having spent weeks trying to figure out how to possibly technically wiggle out of one of the most important agreements in recent European history. Then beyond that, we all know full well that the second the WA is down, the Tories will try to kill it, and all the Brexiters – even those who voted it – will whine that it wasn't proper Brexit, and therefore all the shit that happens won't be their fault.

We should just revoke now and end this mess.

The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15507 on: 15 March, 2019, 08:32:50 pm »


There hasn't been a single opinion poll showing a majority for 'leave' since March 2018 — that's about 60 separate polls. They want it to be over in the sense that they'd just like us to abandon the whole stupid idea.


Isn't this the pattern, though? When the people vote "the wrong way," they are pestered until they vote "the right way." The EU has form on this.

Right or wrong, the democratic process is ostensibly sacrosanct but it's being overridden. If there needs to be another "once in a generation" referendum this year or next year then fine, have one. But doesn't this mean there should be the same referendum every few years? (Once the vote shifts to 'remain,' there's unlikely to be another vote, is there? It's only the 'leave' vote that seems to be negotiable.) If democracy is good enough for choosing our national rulers, why is it not good enough for choosing (and holding to account) our European rulers? Maybe vote on it every ten years or so and make the in-out process as easy and streamlined as possible. It might be awkward but it's not impossible and it would make the EU more accountable.

Or, and this would be my preference, wind the EU back to a simple trading union with no power over sovereign governments.


Jim_Campbell

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15508 on: 15 March, 2019, 08:47:51 pm »
Isn't this the pattern, though? When the people vote "the wrong way," they are pestered until they vote "the right way." The EU has form on this.

Neither of the major political parties is supporting remain/revoke as an option and yet there is now a consistent majority polling in favour of it. That's remarkable. Imagine what the numbers would look like if there was some actual leadership on the issue.

Quote
Right or wrong, the democratic process is ostensibly sacrosanct but it's being overridden. If there needs to be another "once in a generation" referendum this year or next year then fine, have one. But doesn't this mean there should be the same referendum every few years?

Sacrosanct? The vote that's been declared unsafe by the Electoral Commission due to criminal activity by one of the participants in the campaign?

Even disregarding that (as the entire political establishment seems bafflingly willing to do), it is impossible to argue that all 17.4M leave voters all voted for exactly the shitshow we're now looking at. Some may have thought they were voting for a harder, no deal Brexit (they were wrong, BTW — Vote Leave's campaign literature explicitly ruled that out), some may have voted for a softer, Norway-style Brexit, as mentioned repeatedly by Johnson, Gove, Hannan and even Farage. There's no way of knowing…unless we ask them.

If the price of getting us out of this is a sensible referendum every, say, ten years to renew the mandate, I can live with that.
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The Legendary Shark

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Re: The Political Thread
« Reply #15509 on: 15 March, 2019, 08:57:30 pm »


If the price of getting us out of this is a sensible referendum every, say, ten years to renew the mandate, I can live with that.


We... agree on something??

Who are you and what have you done with Jim!?

:D